9/11 v islamic values

[Desert_Sloath]

I thought you'd care to read :


http://www.zanzinet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000249.html


Thank you



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Do not ask what your country has done for you
But ask what have you done for your country

[shamsery]

Dear Desert_Sloath,
Good job.
I have just skin through the thread. The world of modern science is a world of wonder. Is that no so?
Quoting some portion of the thread bellow for our member and visitor:
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“Muslims who believe in Allah and carry His uncorrupted message, have an obligation to enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong, and spread the message of Islam among people of the West.
On the Day of Judgment, Allah will ask Muslims individually to account as to what they did in this respect.
Muslims living in the West bear the greater responsibility of spreading the message of Islam to the non-Muslims of the West.

Islam is propagated by two basic methods, by Muslims setting an example in practicing Islam so that non-Muslims get the impression of it and wish to become Muslims, and by wisely initiating the non Muslims carefully and wisely. This later method may incorporate various strategies such as publications and holding discussions. To the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), Muslims are urged to begin by discussing common issue.

Compulsion has no place in the Islamic propagation. This means that people should not be compelled to change their faith.
Allah has declared an abomination to anyone who fails to understand this point and engage a force to convert non-Muslims.

We must commend the work of Islamic organisations in the West in spreading the message of Islam among the Western societies. Dawah leading the non-Muslims of the West to Islam is not an easy task for specific reasons.
First, people are not practically exposed to the Islamic way of life. Second, many people are not exposed to an opportunity of learning or hearing unbiased presentation of Islam. Instead of a neutral view, the media, often controlled by Jews who communicate hatred against the Muslims focuses on the Muslims simply as “terrorists”.

We still do not know whether Bin Laden is responsible for the event of September 11th in the USA, or he just liked what happened. In what was claimed as his video, he is quoted to have said his intention is to arouse an upheaval that drives the US out of the Middle East and topple pro-western Arab regimes. Allah knows best about the truth and Muslims do not accept the media speculation about this and the propaganda attaching Islam as a religion of terror. Muslims have repeatedly said that the very the name of the religion comes from the word “peace and the faith blends scientific reason with spiritual reality. It presents a belief in the universal existence of God, one God for all. It does also insist that we are all humans and there is no discrimination against peoples in colours or tribes; "the best of humanity are the most God-conscious. Islam acknowledges the peaceful coexistence of other faiths and cultures. A Muslim has no reason to hate the unbelievers if they do not spread mischief in their lands. Allah has not told Muslims to fight the unbelievers for no reason but asked them to make clear their position.
Muslims are aware that Allah has the real power and not the non-Muslims. He will promote Islam despite the unbelievers’ effort of mis presenting the faith. The incorrect view of Islam presented by the Jewish-controlled media to spin the public opinion against Islam has only served to fuel revenge attacks and harassment on innocent Muslim families and communities. Islam is the Light of Allah and the world media propaganda cannot put it away.”
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This is edited and re-production.

[mimosa]

I do not believe that Islam is a 'religion or terror'. Like most other major religions, its fundamental principle is one of peace and love for our fellow man.

But I do believe that Bin Laden is a 'man of terror'. There is no serious doubt in my mind that his group was behind 9/11, or other atrocities such as in Kenya and Tanzania...he puts no value on life other that his own. I do not consider Bin Laden representative of Islam, or to be a true Muslim. I feel sorry for those weak-minded people who follow him in the hope of some sort of salvation.

[Desert_Sloath]

Originally posted by mimosa


1)

I do not believe that Islam is a 'religion or terror'. Like most other major religions, its fundamental principle is one of peace and love for our fellow man.

2)

But I do believe that Bin Laden is a 'man of terror'.

3)

There is no serious doubt in my mind that his group was behind 9/11, or other atrocities such as in Kenya and Tanzania.



4)

he puts no value on life other that his own.

5)

I do not consider Bin Laden representative of Islam, or to be a true Muslim.

6)

I feel sorry for those weak-minded people

7)

who follow him in the hope of some sort of salvation.



Point 1:

I quite agree with you but give Islam a little bit of elevation than those other 'religions'.


Point 2:

What is Bin Laden's background ? If look into his early life as a yuth you will find in him a CIA connection. So who claims he is a man of terror :duh:


Point 3:

What proof do you have ? No independent sources confirms the allegations put forward by his ex-masters. And what do you have on the Sudanese Pharmaceutical Factory "al-Shafa" which the then American President ordered it's demolition to divert off his personal scandal on the sweety sweety softy Monica ?

Point 3a:

But am sure the group did never targeted Kenya or Tanzania other than the American presence. To some extent those are legitimate targets in the eyes of those who did it. But what is the remedy ? Why no other similar targets of a different nation were targeted ? Oh mimo !! so many questions to be answered. Any American administration I have ever known in my 98 years, has been hitherto influenced by Hollywood. Just watch the film entitled " French Connection " and you will understand the american ' official ' culture.

Point 4:

Does Bush or any other American or British Prime-Minister put his own life at risk or the small man like you and me have expendable life ?

Point 5:

None of us muslims have appointed or elected Bin Laden as our pope nor has he obtained the position by margin vote. As far as I see him and all those with him, are a boomerang curved and thrown by the previous American Administrations against the Soviet's presence in Afghanistan. It has just taken such a long time to THE THROWER.


Regarding him being a 'true' muslim I am not qualified to judge. That is his personal concerned with his creator, but as far as I can see it, I have NO doubt he is soft hearted and may be a 'better' muslim than me to have answered THE AMERICAN call for JIHAD for Afghanistan. I just used to laugh at such responses and that is why you find me here enjoying by web surfing :D:


Point 6:

I agree with you 100%. That was what I saw those American Styled Mujahidins. But mind you, even our GCC Summit was taken up by a call for Jihad. I remember one Afghan Leader blasted the GCC Conference Hall in the KSA, and warned the audience that their neighbours house was on fire :kewl: I can not recall which Summit's number it was but you may care to research. What I am wondering upto this moment is how did that " Mujahe " manage to get himself a ticket to address such a cartier of Arab Leaders :D: :D:


Point 7:

No body follows him, believe me. If any it would be because hes another boomerang curved by either the Americans or British.
Who does it first is not a problem. The Anglo American relation is becoming a mystery like the origin of the Stonehenges !!



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Do not ask what your country has done for you
But ask what have you done for your country

[shamsery]

Bin Laden is not religious leader/ reprehensive by any means.

[Shakoosh Kabir]

"I quite agree with you but give Islam a little bit of elevation than those other 'religions'."

This is precisely the problem rational thinkers have with theocrats. It is not possible to find any common ground and the axiom applies to Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Jews as well as Muslims and all other "religious" believers.

It will soon be almost one year since we from the West dipped in here to see what the mood was in the "Islamic" world. We have had much debate, but to be quite honest there is no evidence that any of us has changed our minds or indeed been influenced to do so.

The gulf remains.

[Talius Brute]

"The gulf remains"

I like it


Although no religion as far as I am concerned explains "what's going on" and all are 100% concerned with "what we must do", for some reason it would still be a very strange religion indeed that said that other beliefs were equally valid.
The trouble is that if one has been told that one has to do somethings to go to heaven and that doing different things will not get you there, and if one believes it, then one has no option but to look down on other beliefs/religions.

Although the real cause of the problem is that religions and religious people think they need to change other people and inflict their faith on others, if everyone in the world was content with their own beliefs, thought they themselves were right, and didn't give a flying bleep what others thought or did (which is what should happen) then there wouldn't be these problems.

[shamsery]

Dear Professor,
We have come far away from the original thread.

[Shakoosh Kabir]

Is not everything connected to everything else? Ba´hai followers maintain that all religions are equal. I suppose they are not favoured in Islamic circles.

9/11 has nothing whatsoever to do with "Islamic values", but everything to do with the politics and beliefs of the Arab world, in particular Oman´s north western neighbour. Do not forget that all but 4 of the perpetrators were Saudi citizens and members of the Wahabi sect.

[Desert_Sloath]

Originally posted by Talius Brute
"The gulf remains"

I like it



Point 1:

it would still be a very strange religion indeed that said that other beliefs were equally valid.


Point 2:

The trouble is that if one has been told that one has to do somethings to go to heaven and that doing different things will not get you there, and if one believes it, then one has no option but to look down on other beliefs/religions.


Point 3:

(a)

Although the real cause of the problem is that religions and religious people think they need to change other people and inflict their faith on others,

(b)

if everyone in the world was content with their own beliefs, thought they themselves were right, and didn't give a flying bleep what others thought or did (which is what should happen) then there wouldn't be these problems.


Yes the " Gulf remains " ? yes, you are right indeed. We have had a debate NOT quite a debate, I dare say.

Anyway, my views about religion is that we are taught tolerance and that tolerance does not mean that when my rights are taken from me by force I should not react. If this was the case, then our good old Great Brittain wouldn't have thought of giving Palestian land to the Zionists knowingly that the Palestinians constituted a nation of jews, christians and muslims in the order. But it is that gap which you have kindly mentioned that remains to sustain the 'box thinking' in us.

You and Talius are educated individuals who share the Sabla with different motives. You may be seen to siding on one side and by doing so you place us (muslims) on the other. Thus 'gulf remains' simply because you do not want to find the truth for yourself. Even your writings above seems to have emenated out of your thinking with difficulty, because the whole statement moves around with only one mining which is 'muslims don't change' the way you'd like them to.

I have known you both and I am strongly convinced that you know Islam better than I do, but you have a legacy of trying to confuse people like myself. You potray islam as a doctrine that calls people to kill innocent fellow men because by doing so they'll go to heaven ? NO, no Sir, islam requires muslims to do unto others what is good themselves. You see, islam is said by the Holy Book to being the 'last revelation'. We believe that. As muslims we quite know of our ansestors being either jews-christians and finally muslims. What is wrong with that. If " muslims " did not become corrupted both of you would have been muslims today and God only knows what would have been your stance by now

I think I should stop here for the time being to give you a time to read and consider

Thank you for your time


_________________________________________________

Do not ask what your country has done for you
But ask what have you done for your country

[Desert_Sloath]

Please add to the list of our ancestors:

Buddhists

Hindus

Animists (Pagans) etc


Thank you.

Note:

Since Shakoosh and TB are from the west. I wish to mark that it has always been my belief that " if you guys took the lead in islam this world would be better place than it is " Think about that. Do not ' react ', but ' read '.

As they say, life is too short and if one was indoctrinated since childhood it is never easy to change, but for educated person it is so easy as he sees things through his reasons and not irrationally.

________________________________________________


Do not ask what your country has done for you
But ask what have you done for your country