View Full Version : Quran Alone?
The Quran Alone.
Why do Muslims need anything else?
This question has come up recently in discussions of dubious ahadith like the ones ascribed to Mohammed which claim that women comprise a majority of the population of Hell because of their lack of intelligence, their lack of religious devotion, their ungratefulness to their husbands, etc.
Since God didn't promise to protect the ahadith, since the collections of ahadith are not holy books but mere human documents, since different sects disagree about which ones are correct, since even the best scholars can still make mistakes easily, why do Muslims need to rely on the ahadith at all? Why not just on the Quran?
I came on some interesting quotations from a a blog post by a Muslim who tends toward the Quran Alone position and from his comments section which I thought I would share for discussion:
1) The Quran is complete
2) Quran is perfect; no mistakes, no falsehood, no nonsense.
3) Quran is detailed, and when God says He detailed His book it means FULLY detailed. God does not do half jobs.
4) God does not need any addition to His book. God teaches us in the Quran that He does not run out of words and that if He so willed He could have given us hundreds, thousands or millions of books besides the Quran (see 18:109).
5) God calls those who prohibit what He did not prohibit, agressors, liars and idol-worshipers.
6) Muhammed is represented only by the Quran. He was not the messenger of God because of who he (Muhammed) was, but because he was given the Quran (the message) to deliver to the world. The religion of Islam is a religion of God, not about Muhammed, who was blessed by God with the delivery of the message of the Quran.
7) When God says something, He means it, and when He does not, he means it as well. Everything given to us in the Quran was done deliberately and everything left out was also left out deliberately.
8) God calls on His true believers to verify every piece of information they see, hear or read.
and from the comments section, someone named Mohammed posts this interesting commentary. Notice how he contrasts Islam with Sunnism and Shiism which are both corruptions according to him. Some of this will bug you, but it's all interesting and thought provoking:
In comparing the teachings of Islam as derived from the Book of God to the practices taught and enforced by the popular Sunni and Shia faiths (1.2 Bn followers), we find that the list is quite extensive, with some of the highlights as follows:
In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the �Straight Path� (6:151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books�
In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (90:12-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war�
In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2:222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times...
In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (4:12), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants...
In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man�s guardianship (4:3), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut'a)...
In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a two-phase period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (65:1, 65:4), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification...
In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:76), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...
In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (24:2), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death...
In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2:256, 10:99; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...
In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter �Muslim� must work to attain the status of Faithful �Mumin� (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...
In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensives (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards...
In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (22:27-28), Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...
In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time�
In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...
In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful(7:32-33, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...
In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur'an through consultation and free-speech (5:48, 42:38). Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy.
http://shahadashy.blogspot.com/2009/07/i-have-studied-in-academic-way-various.html
What do you think?
Get irritated but try to discuss intelligently. Why do you need the ahadith if the Quran is divine and perfect and the ahadith are human and imperfect?
ToomuchaT
07-08-10, 07:20 AM
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The reason is because we believe in the Quran.. and as you said the Quran is perfect.. The Quran says that what the prophet says/speaks is a revelation from Allah as it is mentioned in Quran:
[3] Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.[4] It is only a Revelation revealed.
About the Authenticity of any of the hadeeths is a scholar matter.. however common sense should have to be present when talking about any hadeeth.. also not any scholar is qualified to be doubt any hadeeth.. there are special scholars who dedicated themselves to just study the authentication of any hadeeth such as the Omani scholar Sh. Said Al-Qanubi.
Haroundb
07-08-10, 10:33 AM
This question has come up recently in discussions of dubious ahadith like the ones ascribed to Mohammed which claim that women comprise a majority of the population of Hell because of their lack of intelligence, their lack of religious devotion, their ungratefulness to their husbands, etc.
From where you got that?:)
Surely it is impossible that God have this discrimination! The fact is that women are easy pray for corruption. Also if you know about women very will you will get to know that they don't mind to skip literately any regulations and rules when it comes to their looks or getting the attention of a man. And sure the situation gets worse when they get to compare themselves to each other (or else who do you think micro skirt did evolve)~!
Adding to that one man can corrupt too many women, but it is rarely happening that a woman can corrupt (many men). That is sure because a man does use his brain before emotion, but women on the other hand have their emotions at the front line, and men do use this against them.
So the advise about seeing the majority of women in hell is because of their weakness against their desires not because of their corruption and lack of intelligence as you quoted.:hyper:
Women are more like glass-work , so much delicate, beautiful and very much clear, Still very fragile and easily breakable (weakness). This is like nature of any delicate matter, expensive and requires too much attention from the beholder!:love:
Since God didn't promise to protect the ahadith, since the collections of ahadith are not holy books but mere human documents, since different sects disagree about which ones are correct, since even the best scholars can still make mistakes easily, ....
Listen to the story:
Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) ordered his followers to "NEVER" write what he says (his words) till the Full Quran was written. So that is the reason Hadeeth being more debuted for authenticity. Prophet Mohammed didn't want his words to be mistakenly mixed up with words of God (Like what happened with the previous religions Christianity and Judaism).
And it is not true that sects has anything to do with the disagreement between scholars of what Hadeeth is authentic or not. It has nothing to do with sects it is all about the source of the man who narrated the Hadeeth. So it is more like an auditory where they remove the strange Hadeeth/s which have been added (mistakenly or in bad intention). So it is a since in Islamic religion which is being taught which has rules and a systematic process is followed for the said auditing.
Why do Muslims need to rely on the ahadith at all? Why not just on the Quran?
Hadeeth is the key to Quran. When God told us to pray in Quran, He didn't tell us how! Prophet Mohammed showed us how. Quran told us to fast, but didn't details the fasting, to stop drinking, food and having sex during fasting! Prophet Mohammed did. In shahada you have to announce that no God but Allah and Mohammed his messenger. The dual confirmation is required to join Islam, you can't be a Muslim if you didn't confirm that the messenger is Mohammed. We are being rememberd in each Azan (call for prayer) with this fact. So no one can deny knowledge of such a fact.
Why?
Why is it so important that Mohammed being recognized as the messenger of Allah? Because he is the ONLY link we have to God! So how would you believe in the source if you don't trust the link? It is logically not possible! So Prophet Mohammed and Quran are one set you can't take one and deny the other, so it is a "Take it all or leave it all" situation.
Quran Confirms it:
If someone says that he believes in Quran then that means he should accept what it says?! Quran the words of Allah from Allah to humans and Jinn, everyone with a mind should know that :
1. By the Star when it goes down,-
2. Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
3. Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
4. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
5. He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
6. Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);
7. While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
8. Then he approached and came closer,
9. And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;
10. So did ((Allah)) convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.
11. The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
Surah 53. An-Najm (The Star) 1-22
So it is very clear that God says whatever comes from the mouth of Prophet Mohammed is what God wanted him to say! How difficult that to absorb?
I came on some interesting quotations from a a blog post by a Muslim who tends toward the Quran Alone position and from his comments section which I thought I would share for discussion:
1) The Quran is complete
2) Quran is perfect; no mistakes, no falsehood, no nonsense.
3) Quran is detailed, and when God says He detailed His book it means FULLY detailed. God does not do half jobs.
.................................................. ........
What do you think?
What do I think...hmm:think:
I think this guy is making his own customized version of Islam. His post is not interesting in any way. He is lost and needs a guide to show him the way back to his religion (Islam).
Special Note:
In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time�This point is really nice because in the lunar count Ramadan will come in different date everyday and that is the mercy of Allah... How???????????
Ramadan is a source from a word that explains the hotness of the desert (Ramdaa' = Desert) in the Arabic language. So from the mercy of God Ramadan shifts 11 days earlier each solar count. So Ramadan will run all around the four seasons every 33 years! So fasting isn't painful all the way from your birth to your death! It also helps meditation and tolerance of humans to a great extent.
I would hate Ramadan because it always come in the summer, but sure I have seen Ramadan in cold rainy days as I have seen it in Hot burning days also! To each its pleasure!
God's Greatness is Beyond Our Imagination!
Here's what I think:
- The ahadith exist to tell us more about the prophet, the stuff we should do as sunna and not exactly fardh. If you feel the hadeeth has something wrong with it or suspicious you go back to the qur'an. Not just that, but there are many ways to know if a hadith is reliable or not.
It has nothing to do with the perfection of qur'an, God doesn't run out of words.
Threadlike
07-08-10, 03:31 PM
For the sake of the argument let's assume we will use the Qura'n alone.
How are you going to explain the Qura'n without the important commentary given by the Prophet PBUH throughout his life over many verses of the Qura'n and used in countless tafseer books? And if you're not going to rely on that for tafseer, then what are you going to rely on? The rules of Arabic? It will explain why the words are arranged the way they are in the Qura'n, but it won't explain the semantics.
Things will get even more complex with tafsir, if you're not aware of the chronological time-line of 'seemingly' contradictory verses that occur over different parts of the Qura'n. The Qura'n at one point allows alcoholic drinks, at one time lightly says it's not that good for you and at another calls it a 'filth from the work of the Devil'. So if you don't have any tafsir or some method to understand what happened at exactly the time those verses were revealed, how are you ever going to know which one to follow?
Not to mention verses related to historical events that occurred at the time of the Prophet which will never be understood unless one has some grasp over the events that resulted in them. This is something that forces one to return to Sira (Life of the Prophet PBUH) books which are not complete without sayings and reports on the prophet PBUH's actions.
The people who 'gathered' the hadith were so dedicated that their chances of error are incredibly minimized. Do such chances exist? Of course they do, and hadiths are constantly investigated to assure chains of narrators and to assure compliance with the basic spirit of Islam and the Holy Qura'n.
The point the man is trying to send through his commentary (b/w Sunni and 'Islamic' teaching and I stress on the inverted commas) though is obviously far from the Qura'n alone approach. What he seems to be implying is that sects arose from political differences and out of personal gains to be accomplished through the introduction of sects to the early Islamic society. Of course, that is true, historically. Sects were introduced purely due to politics. Whether the final outcome, which we live now, was good or bad is subject to personal opinion. I believe it was never about the sects or their existence so much as it was about the Muslims themselves.
In other words, if we wake up tomorrow with no sects at all but no will to better ourselves and our religion; we'll still be the same. It won't make much of a difference.
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The reason is because we believe in the Quran.. and as you said the Quran is perfect.. The Quran says that what the prophet says/speaks is a revelation from Allah as it is mentioned in Quran:
[3] Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.[4] It is only a Revelation revealed.
About the Authenticity of any of the hadeeths is a scholar matter.. however common sense should have to be present when talking about any hadeeth.. also not any scholar is qualified to be doubt any hadeeth.. there are special scholars who dedicated themselves to just study the authentication of any hadeeth such as the Omani scholar Sh. Said Al-Qanubi.
I think the objection to the first point would be this:
That Quran passage doesn't mean that every time Mohammed said, "Oh, what a pretty goat!" it was "revelation revealed".
It means that the things he speaks from the QURAN are revelation revealed.
Otherwise, everything Mohammed says is the word of God, on par with the Quran. And it all should have been written down immediately.
Thready that's excellent and thoughtful. And it makes a lot of sense.
But I think the idea of Quran Alone doesn't mean that you can't use things like historical evidence or the rule of evidence to understand things.
It just means that you can't
1. Elevate them to absolutes or semi-absolutes;
2. You can't use them as ADDITIONAL revelation, like for stoning.
As far as the super reliability of the ahadith collections, well, okay. Maybe. That's a human judgment.
So if someone challenges it on human grounds--I don't think they really are reliable because of X, Y, Z--then it shouldn't present a problem. Right?
ToomuchaT
07-08-10, 05:38 PM
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Jeff .. hadeeths are a form of advices/teachings/guides.. so when it comes from a person who was well behaved by Allah then these advices/teachings/guides are revelation from Allah.
1) The Quran is complete
2) Quran is perfect; no mistakes, no falsehood, no nonsense.
3) Quran is detailed, and when God says He detailed His book it means FULLY detailed. God does not do half jobs.
4) God does not need any addition to His book. God teaches us in the Quran that He does not run out of words and that if He so willed He could have given us hundreds, thousands or millions of books besides the Quran (see 18:109).
5) God calls those who prohibit what He did not prohibit, agressors, liars and idol-worshipers.
6) Muhammed is represented only by the Quran. He was not the messenger of God because of who he (Muhammed) was, but because he was given the Quran (the message) to deliver to the world. The religion of Islam is a religion of God, not about Muhammed, who was blessed by God with the delivery of the message of the Quran.
7) When God says something, He means it, and when He does not, he means it as well. Everything given to us in the Quran was done deliberately and everything left out was also left out deliberately.
8) God calls on His true believers to verify every piece of information they see, hear or read.
Yes!
In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:76), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...
In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (24:2), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death...
!
I like what he says but I doubt he read the whole Quran! I call that avoiding the violent part of the Quran! Yes, the violent part.
And yeah the Quran doesnt say anything about married adulterers, but he's not clear in the adultery thing.
I wonder what he says about this:
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. " [24:2]
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Jeff .. hadeeths are a form of advices/teachings/guides.. so when it comes from a person who was well behaved by Allah then these advices/teachings/guides are revelation from Allah.
Well, maybe you can call them that in an extended sense, but they are NOT the words of God. Otherwise, you are placing them on the same level as the text of the Quran.
Muslims don't do that.
In fact, there is even a special kind of hadith--Hadith al-Qudsi--which consists of direct words of God to Mohammed, but not word for word. That's why they are the Quran.
So these are not divine revelation in the same sense the Quran is.
And the big issue is protection:
God didn't promise to protect ahadith. And Muslims disagree over them. Different sects have different collections.
Plus they weren't even in existence for more than a hundred years after Mohammed's death.
Yes!
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I like what he says but I doubt he read the whole Quran! I call that avoiding the violent part of the Quran! Yes, the violent part.
And yeah the Quran doesnt say anything about married adulterers, but he's not clear in the adultery thing.
I wonder what he says about this:
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. " [24:2]
Yeah, but the famous Verse of Stoning is missing from the Quran. Ahadith say eaten by a goat.
So if you go by the Quran there is no stoning.
I dunno what they say about the "violent verses". I guess you can check and read up about it on their websites.
But they tend to have a different approach.
Isn't an in between position possible?
Ahadith contain much valuable material but are not 100% reliable?
For example, what will you do if a fly falls in your drink? Will you take it out and dunk it again? And then drink your drink?
Would it really make you a better Muslim if you do that?
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."
ToomuchaT
08-08-10, 07:21 AM
Well, maybe you can call them that in an extended sense, but they are NOT the words of God.
I'm not saying they are the words of Allah but they have the sense of the holiness since the prophet was acting/speaking/practicing with orders from Allah.
The prophet PBUH had spoken about himself and said: I was raised up by Allah and he well behaved me. أدبني ربي فأحسن تأديبي
And Sayidah Ayisha, when she was asked about the manners of the prophet PBUH, said: His manner was the Quran!! كان خلقه القران
Even from Quraish themselves, they gave the title of "Trustworthy" الصادق الأمين to the prophet PBUH even before he discloses his message.
All these qualifies that his hadeeths are reliable.. but the question will remain the authenticity of the hadeeth which is up to the reliable scholar to decide.. not just any scholar.
In fact, there is even a special kind of hadith--Hadith al-Qudsi--which consists of direct words of God to Mohammed, but not word for word. That's why they are the Quran.
These hadeeths that the prophet HIMSELF delivers the content of the hadeeth about Allah SW.. where the other hadeeths, the companions deliver what the prophet had said/acted/practiced during his life PBUH.
In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the �Straight Path� (6:151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books�
I must say that this person for sure does understand a word what the QURAN says. All what is in the 5 pillars is as well in the Quran. Allah tells in many part of the Quran to:
1. That we have to believe that there is only ONE ALLAH, and the his prohpet Muhammed is a messenger, and the LAST.
2. He has said in many verses in the Quran the importance of Prayers!
3. His as well told us about the Zakat " a yearl give out for charity"
4. The HAJ, and the
5 Fasting "Ramadhan"
In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (90:12-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war�
"So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates…"[47:4]
In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2:222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times...
Forget about woman are not allowed to fast, or pray during the time of their menstruation, MEN and WOMEN are not allowed to fast, or pray if they have had a sexual intercourse with out performing Ghusl "washing up"
Its nothing to with a WOMAN being dirty, but in order to perform prayers, or fast, one has to be pure.
In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (4:12), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants... I am not sure what he meant by that! it does not make sense at all.
In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man�s guardianship (4:3), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut'a)...
Allah has allowed a man to marry 4 wives " and there are reasons behaind that" I have not seen a hadith that advices that one can get married 4 wives just for the sake of getting married!
In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (22:27-28), Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...
HAJ is one of the 5 pillars of ISLAM, its not a tradition, nor a culture, nor is it a supersition act! Its a MUST for every humanbeing that has the capability in terms of Financially, Physcially, and Mentaly!
In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time�
[quore]In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...[/quote]
Females DO NOT have to circumcised, but MALE do, and the recent research has showed how much health problems it brings not doing so!
Our prophet PBUH taught us to do so, and it was his teaching.
[/quote]
Allah tells us: We should accept all the teaching of the prophet to us, as that is what Allah ordered him to tell us!
The Quran and the Sunna, are things that the prophet left us. And he told us to always go back to his teachings and the Quran, if we were to have any sort of Question.
Yes, I get ur point in stating how could we believe a saying that was transmitted from an ordinary human etc.. .
But there are ways on finding if the Hadith is Fake, or true. There are methods on how the scholars do their research!
There are ppl out there for their living all they do is researches etc... and Allah and the prophet told us if we still have doubt than will leave the matter to Allah!
Isn't an in between position possible?
Ahadith contain much valuable material but are not 100% reliable?
For example, what will you do if a fly falls in your drink? Will you take it out and dunk it again? And then drink your drink?
Would it really make you a better Muslim if you do that?
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."
Jeff - there are things in ISLAM in which you are obligated to do and things which you are not!
Meaning - 5 prayers are a MUST, besides the 5 prayers we tend to have other prayers during the day in which one can perfrom " which has triple the blessings" but if a Muslim choses not to do them, his not commiting a sinful act " its not HARAM" Prohibited!
Same thing with fasting. During the month of Ramadhan, its a must for every human being who is able to fast, and has no reason not to do so. For those who chose not to fast because "they are lazy" or they just dont want to, than those ppl are for sure commiting haram.
And there are other days of the year in where muslim would fast, but its not a must, and its not considerd haram etc.. .
So, the prophets teaching are things which involves all this. He tells us everything from GOOD,BAD,Ugly. Haram, not Haram. Better for us better not to do so... its up for us to choose what we want to take and practice!
Lacrymosa
08-08-10, 11:06 PM
I just love the concept of ahadith and how it should be researched and studied so we might know the true hadiths from the fake ones.
Allah could just leave his message and make us not research anything but he gave us the mind and we are special creatures because of it. We are not just some kind of pigs that just live as their desires tell us and nor are we some kind of monkeys that follow what we are told to. We have to research, investigate and do what it is right, if we couldn't find a conclusion, we just follow our pure instinct, is this right? Is this wrong?
A lot of people tell me that there's no direct hadith or aya talks about covering the hair, but my instinct tells me you SHOULD cover your hair because it's not right to show our hair. Women are so attractive with their hair! This is something our right minds concluded it, maybe the women who don't wear it should listen to their minds. Maybe they are wrong, maybe they are right!
I think ahadith is something really nice and gives a chance to use the brain. This is the perfection of Islam, its way of treating the human mind. Qur'an is perfect and true, so that's why Allah left some things on ahadith so we can do what I already mentioned.
I just love the concept of ahadith and how it should be researched and studied so we might know the true hadiths from the fake ones.
Allah could just leave his message and make us not research anything but he gave us the mind and we are special creatures because of it. We are not just some kind of pigs that just live as their desires tell us and nor are we some kind of monkeys that follow what we are told to. We have to research, investigate and do what it is right, if we couldn't find a conclusion, we just follow our pure instinct, is this right? Is this wrong?
A lot of people tell me that there's no direct hadith or aya talks about covering the hair, but my instinct tells me you SHOULD cover your hair because it's not right to show our hair. Women are so attractive with their hair! This is something our right minds concluded it, maybe the women who don't wear it should listen to their minds. Maybe they are wrong, maybe they are right!
I think ahadith is something really nice and gives a chance to use the brain. This is the perfection of Islam, its way of treating the human mind. Qur'an is perfect and true, so that's why Allah left some things on ahadith so we can do what I already mentioned.
Yes, I think they are fascinating too! I don't hate the ahadith! :)
There are many beautiful and interesting ones.
And there is much lovely and interesting in Sira literature too!
The question is: Are they fundamental to the Faith? Are they reliable as the Quran is?
But you make a good point.
I don't see why even if you find them imperfect you wouldn't find much to love and to use. :)
ISLAM IS LIKE A BIRD ONE OF IT'S WINGS IS THE QURAN AND THE OTHER IS THE SUNNAH.
THE BIRD WILL NEVER FLY WITH ONE WING ONLY!!!
SO IF THE SUNNAH IS ELIMINATED THEN WE ARE LEFT WITH DISABLED AND WEAK ISLAM!!!!
Some Questions to Ask the Quran Only People:
How do you know how to pray using the Quran alone?
How do you know how much Zakaah to pay using the Quran alone?
Hadn't the Quran been reached to us from the same sources we received our authentic hadith?
Why would Allah preserve the Quran and not preserve the meaning?
How much is the Jizyah that the People of the Book have to pay?
Does the Quran say that cross dressing is haram?
The Quran says that men could beat up their wives. But we know according to hadith that this is a spiritual beating and not a harmful physical. What is to stop a man from misinterpreting the Quran and beating the hell out of his wife?
Is it permissible for a man to look at a naked man?
Can I pray Salaah naked?
How do we know the order of the alcohol revelations? Maybe the first of the Quranic revelations said it was haram and then the later ones came saying that is was okay except during prayer times. How do you know the order of its revelations by using the Quran alone?
It says in the Quran to shorten the prayer when you travel. How long do you have to travel? How short to cut the prayer?
In Surah 66:3, the Prophet told his wives that he knew because Allah had informed him about it. Show me a Quranic verse where Allah had informed the Prophet about it. You cannot. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?
Surah 2:173 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran?
The Quran is passed on to us by Mutawattir narrations. Mutawattir narrations are narrations by so many people that it is just impossible for all of them to get together and plot and lie. However, we have so many Mutawattir hadith List of Mutawatir hadith http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/Index.asp?Lang=ENG&Type=3 that teach things that are not in the Quran. How can you reject their authenticity with no objective evidence?
Interesting answer from clouds and Neena! Thanks.
I will get back to them later.
Threadlike
09-08-10, 01:20 AM
Thready that's excellent and thoughtful. And it makes a lot of sense.
But I think the idea of Quran Alone doesn't mean that you can't use things like historical evidence or the rule of evidence to understand things.
It just means that you can't
1. Elevate them to absolutes or semi-absolutes;
2. You can't use them as ADDITIONAL revelation, like for stoning.
As far as the super reliability of the ahadith collections, well, okay. Maybe. That's a human judgment.
So if someone challenges it on human grounds--I don't think they really are reliable because of X, Y, Z--then it shouldn't present a problem. Right?
Well, it depends on your definition of 'revelation'.
Is revelation purely the word of God? If so, then of course we cannot use ahadith as revelation. They are, after all, the words of God's prophet PBUH (as we believe) and not (strictly) the words of God.
But the main idea of ahadith is that they're NOT revelation (if we follow the above definition of revelation). That's the point in them, to start with. But they are, we believe, divinely inspired since they are the words of God's messenger...In other words; authentic hadiths that have been checked numerous times for authenticity can be used for rulings because we are 100% sure that the prophet PBUH said that. Not 99%. 100%.
The confusing part for most people is this: If there are so many weak hadiths in collections all over the world; why are these collections still in circulation? Why don't the Muslims make some form of unified movement to get only the authentic hadiths verified and approved and in circulation? To be honest with you; I have no answer for that and it is a question that has constantly bothered me.
Personally; I think people should constantly challenge hadiths that are doubtful in terms of authenticity. In all cases; whether they're right or wrong, they're opening up discussion and debate and everyone's benefiting.
The general logic used in evaluating hadith is something like: if Bob says Jeff is a Christian. Mike says Jeff is a Christian. I say Jeff is a Christian. And there are tens of others, all as honest as Bob, Mike and myself saying Jeff is a Christian; it is essential that he is in fact a Christian. You can't go wrong with all those sources.
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Why do Muslims need to rely on the ahadith at all? Why not just on the Quran?
Quran is not incomplete without hadith ....there's no doubt !its comlete by it self ,as to understand the more precisely its suggested to refer hadith ....hadith is the commentary to make it more thorough in details ......As we all know that Human's are nt perfect and there's a greater chance that we make mistakes which could lead us to misleading concept with the word's and different meaning ....forexample let's take an example of a sentence in English language .....
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
Such sentence could lead different types of meaning ......
so to avoid that misleading concepts Quran ,its taken under light of hadith to make it more than perfect :) .... hadith refers that we understand the Quran properly in a vary to the perfect details of Quran ......
The hadith is explaning and details the Quran.
In addition to that in the holy Quran it is stated to follow the Prophet teachings, so as you can see there are instructions from Allah swt to follow his great messenger. For example without the hadith Muslims will not be able to pray as praying today, the Prophet PBUH said "pray the way you saw me praying".
I think this will conclude your thread Jeff :)
amo_l_oman
15-08-10, 10:57 AM
I don't understand why the hadeeth make the Quran incomplete
They expand on concepts, do not contradict the Quran
And the importance of the sayings of the Prophet pbuh is in the fact that they are inspired by God
Still the message is central not the messenger
If we disagree on their interpretation because we're human beings, that's another story
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