Autheticity?

[LORDMUS]

A/A
I got into this debate with my cousin to which he said something which I didnt agree with and guess what I got myself into a heated debate.It was to do with the fact that there are hadeeths which tell/suggest that Allah (swt) will question four people to whom message was not conveyed (is what I believe) but to which my cousin says: A mentally retard person shall go to heaven directly to which I argued and said: does not this make life unfair on the rest ? So in my opinion this is the justice.
So are these hadeeths legit?



Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: "There are four who will present their case on the Day of Resurrection: a deaf man who never heard anything, an insane man, a very old and senile man, and a man who died during the Fatrah (Quran 5:19) (break in the Prophetic chain between Jesus and Muhammad, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon them both). As for the deaf man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came but I never heard anything.'' As for the insane man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came and the young boys were throwing camel dung at me.'' As for the senile man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came and I did not understand anything.'' As for the one who died during the Fatrah, he will say, "O Lord, no Messenger from You came to me.'' Allah will accept their pledge of obedience to Him, then He will send word to them that they should enter the Fire. By the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them.
(Musnad Ahmed Hadith 15712, Haithmi said its narrators are sound (See Majma’ Al-Zawaid 7/216) )

Elsewhere we find these words as well: "Whoever enters it will find it cool and safe, and whoever does not enter it will be dragged into it."
(Musnad Ishaq bin Rahwiyya 1/123, Classified as Sahih by Baihiqi in Al-'Itiqad)


I don't see them backed up by Muslim,Bukhari or Abu dawood :/ ? (pbut)

[Ghazzali]

A/A
I got into this debate with my cousin to which he said something which I didnt agree with and guess what I got myself into a heated debate.It was to do with the fact that there are hadeeths which tell/suggest that Allah (swt) will question four people to whom message was not conveyed (is what I believe) but to which my cousin says: A mentally retard person shall go to heaven directly to which I argued and said: does not this make life unfair on the rest ? So in my opinion this is the justice.
So are these hadeeths legit?



Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: "There are four who will present their case on the Day of Resurrection: a deaf man who never heard anything, an insane man, a very old and senile man, and a man who died during the Fatrah (Quran 5:19) (break in the Prophetic chain between Jesus and Muhammad, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon them both). As for the deaf man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came but I never heard anything.'' As for the insane man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came and the young boys were throwing camel dung at me.'' As for the senile man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came and I did not understand anything.'' As for the one who died during the Fatrah, he will say, "O Lord, no Messenger from You came to me.'' Allah will accept their pledge of obedience to Him, then He will send word to them that they should enter the Fire. By the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them.
(Musnad Ahmed Hadith 15712, Haithmi said its narrators are sound (See Majma’ Al-Zawaid 7/216) )

Elsewhere we find these words as well: "Whoever enters it will find it cool and safe, and whoever does not enter it will be dragged into it."
(Musnad Ishaq bin Rahwiyya 1/123, Classified as Sahih by Baihiqi in Al-'Itiqad)


I don't see them backed up by Muslim,Bukhari or Abu dawood :/ ? (pbut)

السلام عليكم ورحة الله

Yes, these ahâdîth together supports what you've said. Imâm Bukhârî (رحمه الله) didn't compile all sahîh ahâdîth so it doesn't mean that every sahîh hadîth must be in Sahîh al-Bukhârî or other known compilations :).

[Reluctant]

Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: "There are four who will present their case on the Day of Resurrection: a deaf man who never heard anything, an insane man, a very old and senile man, and a man who died during the Fatrah (Quran 5:19) (break in the Prophetic chain between Jesus and Muhammad, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon them both). As for the deaf man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came but I never heard anything.'' As for the insane man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came and the young boys were throwing camel dung at me.'' As for the senile man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came and I did not understand anything.'' As for the one who died during the Fatrah, he will say, "O Lord, no Messenger from You came to me.'' Allah will accept their pledge of obedience to Him, then He will send word to them that they should enter the Fire. By the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them.
(Musnad Ahmed Hadith 15712, Haithmi said its narrators are sound (See Majma’ Al-Zawaid 7/216) )

Elsewhere we find these words as well: "Whoever enters it will find it cool and safe, and whoever does not enter it will be dragged into it."
(Musnad Ishaq bin Rahwiyya 1/123, Classified as Sahih by Baihiqi in Al-'Itiqad)


أربعة يحتجون يوم القيامة : رجل أصم لا يسمع شيئا و رجل أحمق و رجل هرم و رجل مات في فترة : فأما الأصم فيقول : رب لقد جاء الإسلام و ما أسمع شيئا و أما الأحمق فيقول : رب جاء الإسلام و ما أعقل شيئا و الصبيان يحذفونني بالبعر و أما الهرم فيقول : رب لقد جاء الإسلام و ما أعقل شيئا و أما الذي مات في الفترة فيقول : رب ما أتاني لك رسول فيأخذ مواثيقهم ليطيعنه فيرسل إليهم أن ادخلوا النار فمن دخلها كانت عليه بردا و سلاما و من لم يدخلها سحب إليها .
تخريج السيوطي
( حم حب ) عن الأسود بن سريع وأبي هريرة .
تحقيق الألباني
( صحيح ) انظر حديث رقم : 881 في صحيح الجامع

[LORDMUS]

أربعة يحتجون يوم القيامة : رجل أصم لا يسمع شيئا و رجل أحمق و رجل هرم و رجل مات في فترة : فأما الأصم فيقول : رب لقد جاء الإسلام و ما أسمع شيئا و أما الأحمق فيقول : رب جاء الإسلام و ما أعقل شيئا و الصبيان يحذفونني بالبعر و أما الهرم فيقول : رب لقد جاء الإسلام و ما أعقل شيئا و أما الذي مات في الفترة فيقول : رب ما أتاني لك رسول فيأخذ مواثيقهم ليطيعنه فيرسل إليهم أن ادخلوا النار فمن دخلها كانت عليه بردا و سلاما و من لم يدخلها سحب إليها .
تخريج السيوطي
( حم حب ) عن الأسود بن سريع وأبي هريرة .
تحقيق الألباني
( صحيح ) انظر حديث رقم : 881 في صحيح الجامع

Ah Thanks bro. Jazakallah khair xD

[LORDMUS]

السلام عليكم ورحة الله

Yes, these ahâdîth together supports what you've said. Imâm Bukhârî (رحمه الله) didn't compile all sahîh ahâdîth so it doesn't mean that every sahîh hadîth must be in Sahîh al-Bukhârî or other known compilations :).

Thanks. =)

[Neena]

Lunatics Actions Not Recorded

Narrated Ali ibn Abu Talib, Ibn Abbas said: A lunatic woman passed by Ali ibn Abu Talib. He then mentioned the rest of the tradition to the same effect as Uthman mentioned. This version has: Do you not remember that the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) has said: There are three whose actions are not recorded: a lunatic whose mind is deranged till he is restored to consciousness, a sleeper till he awakes, and a boy till he reaches puberty? (Sunan Abu Dawood 2069.)

As you see from that Hadith, a person who is not right in the hadith call him "Crazy, Mental disorder, Lunatic = all is a medicale issue nothing is recoded on, he/she has no any sins!

What is so not fair about that? how fair would it be if a mental, ret

arded person to be accountable for all his/her actions, does that make any sense?!

[LORDMUS]

Lunatics Actions Not Recorded

Narrated Ali ibn Abu Talib, Ibn Abbas said: A lunatic woman passed by Ali ibn Abu Talib. He then mentioned the rest of the tradition to the same effect as Uthman mentioned. This version has: Do you not remember that the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) has said: There are three whose actions are not recorded: a lunatic whose mind is deranged till he is restored to consciousness, a sleeper till he awakes, and a boy till he reaches puberty? (Sunan Abu Dawood 2069.)

As you see from that Hadith, a person who is not right in the hadith call him "Crazy, Mental disorder, Lunatic = all is a medicale issue nothing is recoded on, he/she has no any sins!

What is so not fair about that? how fair would it be if a mental, ret

arded person to be accountable for all his/her actions, does that make any sense?!
A/a
Thanks for your reply but think of it this way: Allah is all just am I right?
fine so you explain me this scenario: Allah creates Khaled a retard or a MRCP sufferer.He stays like this for the rest of his life... then when the time of reckoning comes... he gets a free ride to the Jannah.


Now I am not arguing it just happen that as I was debating with an deist/atheist person (never knew where his faith stand at oh also an ex-Muslim).Thinking of it,can't we say the same about children passing away before reaching puberty? This is what made me thinking... Also the hadeeth I posted and brother of mine^ appears to make sense to me.Now I don't know about the children dying before puberty ( I mean I know from ahadeths that Muslim ones await for their mother by the gate "if the baby dies" as for an unbelieving one he/she will be maids of heaven?)

Also If I recall another hadith tells us of the "majestic wad"/promise we made with Allah s.w.t in one of the steps of creation in which all of the humanity made an oath with HIM.
Totally not sure on it's authenticity! ^
So me thinks he will test them on yaum al hashr but again! arghh is not yaum al hisaab day of redeeming what one done!? Question after question..... get me closer to you oh majestic one =)
Wa salam fellow earthlings for now ;)

[fakhirr]

thanks for sharing guys

[Neena]

I am not sure if I understand what you are trying to say, but are you saying that, you believe that its not really fair for a Lunatic person to be not judged in the after life, and he/she entering haven is not fair and you consider that this person took an easy ride?!

Well, let take this step by step:

1. the person is lunatic, crazy, a mental peroblem, why should he be charged of something in which he/she has no idea about?! I mean a lunatic person does not know what is right from wrong.

If you were to compare a mental distrubed person, and a child, they both dont know right from wrong, but I guess logically to speak a child is smarter in a way!

Plus a child who has not passed through Pubertiy has no sin! And if those category of ppl are to be said to eanter to heaven with out being judged!

[LORDMUS]

I am not sure if I understand what you are trying to say, but are you saying that, you believe that its not really fair for a Lunatic person to be not judged in the after life, and he/she entering haven is not fair and you consider that this person took an easy ride?!

Well, let take this step by step:

1. the person is lunatic, crazy, a mental peroblem, why should he be charged of something in which he/she has no idea about?! I mean a lunatic person does not know what is right from wrong.

If you were to compare a mental distrubed person, and a child, they both dont know right from wrong, but I guess logically to speak a child is smarter in a way!

Plus a child who has not passed through Pubertiy has no sin! And if those category of ppl are to be said to eanter to heaven with out being judged!
A/a.
Ah no it seems you mis read my post.What I meant was that the lunatic person takes oath to Allah (swt) and then Allah (swt) commands this person to go to fire.Those who obey his command,the blaze turns cool for them as for those who didn't they are dragged towards it.
It's what numerous hadith have got to say.
As for children before puberty yea you are right about it but this further ponders me over what Allah (swt) tells us in the quran but maybe children,lunatics are excluded.

Anyhow lol.. maybe I was going too deep there. =)