View Full Version : Ibadi Islam
Assalaamu alaykum,
I am a revert to Islam and have been Muslim for 7 years now.
Since last year, I have been trying to find as much info on Ibadi Islam that I can, and what I have found I like and as such would like to practice this form. Given that I live in the UK, it is not possible for me to simply go to the local Masjid and enquire as to how to perform prayers in the Ibadi way, etc.
My Arabic isn't the greatest, and as such does anyone know of any links were the Ibadi method of salaat is described in English with transliteration if possible?
siah786
23-05-10, 05:19 PM
Follow the Quran and follow the hadeeths of the Prophet saw... BEST ADVICE!!!
Wa3alaykasSalaam.
Hope someone can help you.
Alex Belucci
23-05-10, 06:35 PM
Why do you want to be Ibadi? I think there is no major difference between Sunnis and Ibadis. I say follow what siah786 said, and don't get your head into trouble with Islam sects.
i hate it when I see converts to Islam confused what math-hab to choose. He made his decision anyway.
I just do - I was hoping to have went to Oman at the end of last year, and so could've had my questions answered then, but unfortunately it fell through.
I like the theological differences of Ibadi Islam and I like the way in which they view certain companions. As such I wish to follow Ibadi fiqh, as I feel it's the Islam which most resembles my own personal beliefs.
i hate it when I see converts to Islam confused what to be. He made his decision anyway.
I am not confused, I know I want to be Ibadi.
Alex Belucci
23-05-10, 07:20 PM
Good luck with your quest! :)
Lacrymosa
23-05-10, 07:25 PM
Follow the Quran and follow the hadeeths of the Prophet saw... BEST ADVICE!!!
This is the best thing! :cool:
Lacrymosa
23-05-10, 07:29 PM
I'm Ibadhy and the only difference I see though.
We pray as the Sunnies but we don't put our hands on our chests or bellies while standing.
Is this the only difference? :p
:DI agree with Siah786 and Lacrymosa....
I think this will help u->> http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/ibadhiyah/ :D:D:D:cool:
All sects are beautiful and complimentary. Do not restrict your scope to just one. As mentioned, read Quran and Hadeeths, better than any books by any sects.
salam aleikum... i also am new revert about 11 years and studying ibhadism. while many look to the differences in appearance of prayer, this is only a small issue. the main issue is the understanding of the verses of qur'an which refer to Allah attributes, the question of humyn ability to see Allah in this life or the next and the classification of the Qur'an as being created, and the question of is the staying in hell transient or permanent. it seem to me these issue are critical in the importance of shaping our islamic understanding of meaning in this life and the next. i have found the last few days good information from: http://www.salloomyat.com/books-htm/ibadi/1.htm
also try to find the book: The Overwhelming Truth (a discussion of some key concepts in Islamic theology) by his eminence shaykh ahmad b. hamad al Khalili
maybe some Omani brother/sister while send it to you (english translation) from ministry of awqaf and religious affairs, p.o. box 3232 postal code 112, Ruwi, sultanate of oman.
you can also get illustrated book on how ibadhi pray from same ministry, inshaAllah, or try to look at: Islamfact.com
Follow the Quran and follow the hadeeths of the Prophet saw... BEST ADVICE!!!
i strongly agree wid u that , we should follow hadith and quran,only then u will be successful in life after death ..:angel:
Thanks everyone for your replies.
FAITH86
23-05-10, 11:02 PM
Be a muslim. That's enough
LORDMUS
24-05-10, 05:27 AM
Al quran wa sunnan al nabaw3a =} is the way of Islam.
Nothing more or less/End
ok, there are few things different in salat. arms are at the side, also not raise the finger when sitting, and not saying "ameen" as part of fatiha and not raising hands when saying the takbeerat al-ihram,isnt it?
M_N_S_S
24-05-10, 11:15 AM
people people! and our brother wanna be ibadi, when islam came there weren't any sects.. this just appeared late after the khulafaa. The thing i want you all to bare in mind is that we all follow the Quraan, we all follow the Hadith of our beloved prophet (pbuh), yes we do have some problems agreeing with each other in some things, but they are just branches and some are things that are ('3aybiyat) things that we don't have to know. fighting and arguing won't do us any good. if we really want to be good muslims we have to respect all muslims, and that's the good thing here in oman that MUSLIMS all pray and practice islam together. and (Wanna be ibadi), it shouldn't be a big deal, but it's good to follow who you think is making more sense of the things that we shouldn't in the fist place argue on, but this shouldn't mean that the others are wrong. if you want to be abadi, visiting Oman would be a good idea and meeting with soeme ibadi people or shaikhs can give a good idea about what this is all about.
but WE ARE ALL MUSLIMS if we follo our holy book Quraan and our prophet (pbuh).
DeSerTDesTroYeR
24-05-10, 02:02 PM
WannabeIbadi: I will contact Ministry of Awqaf & Religious Affairs and find out if they still have the references ns8t mentioned. Just PM me with your Postal address and I will send them to you, once found.
Welcome to English Sabla :sabla:
dear desert destroyer
can you ask ministry if there is english translation of tartib al musnad hadith?
DeSerTDesTroYeR
24-05-10, 02:35 PM
dear desert destroyer
can you ask ministry if there is english translation of tartib al musnad hadith?
Sure. I should be able to find out within the next 2 days.
Miss Twix
24-05-10, 02:36 PM
Welcome to English Sabla
people its his choice to be ibadhi, dont fight about it :)
Welcome to English Sabla
people its his choice to be ibadhi, dont fight about it :)
Thank you Miss Twix. People obviously have their own views about certain matters, just as I have mine about wishing to follow Ibadhi Islam.
I am not confused, I know I want to be Ibadi.
The guy made made his chice, so pls do not confuse him.
You first need to read the history of Ibadhi, then follow the teachings.
I will try to get you the links
The guy made made his chice, so pls do not confuse him.
You first need to read the history of Ibadhi, then follow the teachings.
I will try to get you the links
Cheers Markov,
I have read up on the history quite a bit.
As to confusing me, as I said, people are allowed to have their opinions on what they believe to be best and after looking at the varying madhabs including the Shafi'i one I follow at present, I have to say I agree more so with Ibadhi Islam in theology, particularly in relation to seeing God, and whether or not the Qur'an had always existed.
Thank you Miss Twix. People obviously have their own views about certain matters, just as I have mine about wishing to follow Ibadhi Islam.
You have made the right choice.
Here is a topic by um albanin about Ibadhi teachings:
http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41777
Assalaamu alaykum,
I am a revert to Islam and have been Muslim for 7 years now.
Since last year, I have been trying to find as much info on Ibadi Islam that I can, and what I have found I like and as such would like to practice this form. Given that I live in the UK, it is not possible for me to simply go to the local Masjid and enquire as to how to perform prayers in the Ibadi way, etc.
My Arabic isn't the greatest, and as such does anyone know of any links were the Ibadi method of salaat is described in English with transliteration if possible?
Check the links about the salaat.
ppt file about salaat in arabic (http://www.nafosa-net.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbaseera.net%2Fuplo adflash%2F%C3%DA%E3%C7%E1_%C7%E1%D5%E1%C7%C94.ppt)
Learn prayer in english (http://www.4shared.com/file/58672893/a25d8ebb/learn__prayer.html)
Ice T - many thanks. The PDF on learn prayer in English is excellent
Kavalec
01-11-10, 10:00 PM
Salaam alaikum
I too am a convert to Islam, 10 years now, and I while do not believe we should divide into sects (per the Quran) I find myself - as you do - fascinated by the theology of the Ibadhi.
This group seems to be closer to the "real Islam" as my heart understands it.
Please keep me up to date on what you find.
beautiful_soul
01-11-10, 10:23 PM
there is no different between ibadi and sunnies
but i don't have any idea how to be ibadi or something
but if i know sure i will post it here
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ibadhi/102913823083073
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19433261/The-IBADHI-SECT-a-Moderate-Sect-of-Islam
I found these for now.
Kavalec
01-11-10, 11:20 PM
there is no different between ibadi and sunnies
but i don't have any idea how to be ibadi or something
but if i know sure i will post it here
From my studies (so far) there are some important differences. One that strikes me as "close to home" is the Ibadhi understanding called "kufr ni‘ma" (disbelief of ingratitude).
My understanding is that Kufr Ni'ma says that a Muslim has to walk the talk.
In Sunni Islam a Muslim is anyone who says the shahada with understanding.
Ibadhi Islam says that one who sins and deliberately remains in sin has lost his Islam.
That make way too much sense!
Allah hafiz
I see Islamic sections more like schools of thought, calling them 'sections' makes the difference huge among them and it isn't.
One thing I find interesting, although I used to be an Ibadhi school follower then changed to become a Sunni, is that when one reads into history about how these schools came into existence. Ibadies were situated in Oman and isolated themselves from the conflicts of power within the remaining Islamic nations, they tried as much as possible to preserve the teachings of fiqh and 'aqeeda within, my guess is that they tried to preserve the dialect of Qura'an as well in both accent and vocabulary.
And guess whose dialect among the Arabs is the closest to that of the Quraan?
It's the Omani dialect!
siah786
02-11-10, 10:03 AM
I believe in being a muslim (not particular sect) But being a muslim who follows Quran and Sunnah.... Thats the best!!!
Lacrymosa
02-11-10, 10:26 AM
Salaam alaikum
I too am a convert to Islam, 10 years now, and I while do not believe we should divide into sects (per the Quran) I find myself - as you do - fascinated by the theology of the Ibadhi.
This group seems to be closer to the "real Islam" as my heart understands it.
Please keep me up to date on what you find.
What I have always thought t is to be sunny is the closest thing to Islam, I wanted so much to be one of them but I said oh well I won't, and I will just be a Muslim and that's it. You can take what you feel right from both sides. :yes:
As I said before in one of the Threads. I come from a family which is 100% Abadhi, and grew up being taught all what the section believes in and does. But as I grew up and got to know more on the ISLAM religion, I have honestly said to myself, I don't know which section I would want to fall under, because each section have things which make or don't make sense.
Therefore, to me I am just a Muslim lady that is doing her best to not go against Allah’s law and orders, and to take into account as much as the teaching of our beloved Prophet. I think and the one that makes perfect logic and sense that is how I base my judgment, and that only ME!
Just like many other members in here said, that there are no match difference in the Sunni's and Abadhi's but I wouldn't agree with some members that say that the 2 sections are only different in the way they perform their prayers that’s not true.
1. The way they pray in terms where they place their hands.
2. The way they pray when read the Surat AL Fatiha, Abadhi don't concluded by saying Ameen, where the Sunni's do.
3. The way they conclude the Salat, by the Salam, the Abadhai go on saying Salam Alaikum in one right side, and complete the salam in the left side, by giving only one salam that is, where the Sunni's each side they give an individual salam. Example: " Salam Alaikum warahmatula, and repeating the same thing in the left side
.
4. The way the Abadhi's pray the Witr prayers is different from how the Sunni's do it. Example, in the ABadhi, they would pray 3 rakaa and in the second raka, only half of the taheyatu will be read, and than they will stand up and read only surat al fatiha, than close the prayer by reading the whole Taheyatu "just like how the Maghreeb prayers is don"
While the Sunni, will perform the Witr prayers just like any nafila, for every 2 rakaa they will read the full taheyatu, will do the salam with out the shahada, and then stand up once again and do the last rakaa by reading Surat Al Fatiha, and another Sura.
5. When it comes to fasting - the kadtha, those who have to pay back the days that they did not fast during ramamdhan could be for travelling, sick, or for women period reasons. In the Abadhai section, if one has 5 days to pay back, than the person has to fast all 5 days with no break, where the Sunni's say that one can break if one does not wishes to fast continuously "as it’s not like fasting Ramadhan", which to me makes perfect sense!
There are many other differences, I just can't seem to think of them right now, but as I remember I will post.
I believe it is fine if someone seeks to be a 'Muslim' however one is then left with the question as to how to say salat, perform wudhu and ghusl, and a whole host of other fiqh related matters - as all sects have some minor and some major differences. In Sunnism for example each of the four madhabs has varying ways to hold the hands in salat or how they say the 'at-tahiyyat', etc. There is then the question of whether one says the 'bismillah' or not, out loud or not.
While the Sunni, will perform the Witr prayers just like any nafila, for every 2 rakaa they will read the full taheyatu, will do the salam with out the shahada, and then stand up once again and do the last rakaa by reading Surat Al Fatiha, and another Sura.
Neena, the Sunnis have a number of different ways to say the witr prayer. Some will only say one ra'kah, as is acceptable within Shafi'i fiqh, although not encouraged. Also, some like the Hanafis believe them to be practically fard and will need to be made up if missed, with Shafi'is, etc not holding such a view.
Alhamdulillah, I have had the good fortune now to have met personally with a few Ibadhis from whom I am continually learning and, as such, I am now deeply humbled to call myself an Ibadhi Muslim.
Neena, the Sunnis have a number of different ways to say the witr prayer. Some will only say one ra'kah, as is acceptable within Shafi'i fiqh, although not encouraged. Also, some like the Hanafis believe them to be practically fard and will need to be made up if missed, with Shafi'is, etc not holding such a view.
Alhamdulillah, I have had the good fortune now to have met personally with a few Ibadhis from whom I am continually learning and, as such, I am now deeply humbled to call myself an Ibadhi Muslim.
Fujin - Thr witr Salat can be done from 1 rakaa to 21, no dispute on that. And yes if one misses the wite salat, one should pray it when able, or when they remember.
Kavalec
09-11-10, 12:29 AM
I believe it is fine if someone seeks to be a 'Muslim' however one is then left with the question as to how to say salat, perform wudhu and ghusl, and a whole host of other fiqh related matters
Salaam
I too choose to call myself Muslim - without any qualifier - and I have come to believe that the variations you allude to are like the borders of a land.
Stay inside the lines and one has stayed within Islam.
When it comes to the underlying theology... ahh! THAT is where I find myself attracted to the Ibadhi understanding. It seems to come the closest to what I imagine was the original understanding of Islam in the times of our Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and it seems less... contaminated ...by the machination of man.
(And worse than man.)
Just my current understanding.
I remain, a student of the Qur'an.
Fujin - Thr witr Salat can be done from 1 rakaa to 21, no dispute on that. And yes if one misses the wite salat, one should pray it when able, or when they remember.
Not correct Neena, only the Hanafi madhab believes that one needs to make it up if missed. As a former follower of Shafi'i fiqh, that madhab taught that whilst witr was commendable it was not compulsory and as such did not need to me made up, as with normal salat.
Salaam
I too choose to call myself Muslim - without any qualifier - and I have come to believe that the variations you allude to are like the borders of a land.
Stay inside the lines and one has stayed within Islam.
When it comes to the underlying theology... ahh! THAT is where I find myself attracted to the Ibadhi understanding. It seems to come the closest to what I imagine was the original understanding of Islam in the times of our Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and it seems less... contaminated ...by the machination of man.
(And worse than man.)
Just my current understanding.
I remain, a student of the Qur'an.
Yes, but the reason I left Sunnism is because I found it fanciful that there could be four different interpretations for the one practice yet all were deemed correct, however if one belonged to a madhab he was to stay within that madhab and not pick and choose whichever method he preferred. As such, I found in Ibadhism one set way for prayer, etc which appealed to me at the level of fiqh.
As for theology, one would need to remember that many Ibadhi beliefs, the Sunnis ascribe to the once predominant but now looked upon as being heretical, mutazili school, and, as such, that has led people such as Ibn Baaz to denounce we Ibadhi as heretics. Therefore, one could not remain within the ahl-al Sunnah and hold to Ibadhi theology. Hence, why I say it is all well and good for someone to say they are a 'Muslim' but the practical realities of it in my opinion is that it is not possible given the situation that Islam finds itself in, and so one therefore needs to affiliate with one sect or another.
Also, I find that most who say they are simply Muslims would not follow the fatwa of a Shia scholar and only follow those of Sunni scholars blowing the idea out of the water that they are simply 'Muslim' but that they are indeed Sunni but don't wish to say so for one reason or another.
Also, I find that most who say they are simply Muslims would not follow the fatwa of a Shia scholar and only follow those of Sunni scholars blowing the idea out of the water that they are simply 'Muslim' but that they are indeed Sunni but don't wish to say so for one reason or another.
I persoanlly as I said before I come from a family who are 100% Abadi's, and I am married to a man who his family are half and half. And not till 3 years back, my hubby hnaged his mathab to Sunni from being Abadi.
Now, as for me, I choose not to be in any mathab, as I look at all to have their goods and bad. And by just being a good muslim, and try to take judgement to things by using my like and dislikes, and ofcourse my common sense, than I don;t really see the need to me to be in a specific section!
So no, its not true totally that those who say they are Muslim "yet" seem to be more in the sunni's and wouldn;t want to say so, because I for sure don't belong to any section, I am just a pure Muslim, thats it,
I'm Ibadi and I never bothered myself to dig out what or how this sect. I'm happy as far as I understand why I'm worshiping Allah or being muslim in this way.
However, it's good to know about your sect and how it "operates".
I persoanlly as I said before I come from a family who are 100% Abadi's, and I am married to a man who his family are half and half. And not till 3 years back, my hubby hnaged his mathab to Sunni from being Abadi.
Now, as for me, I choose not to be in any mathab, as I look at all to have their goods and bad. And by just being a good muslim, and try to take judgement to things by using my like and dislikes, and ofcourse my common sense, than I don;t really see the need to me to be in a specific section!
So no, its not true totally that those who say they are Muslim "yet" seem to be more in the sunni's and wouldn;t want to say so, because I for sure don't belong to any section, I am just a pure Muslim, thats it,
Let me ask then Neena, do you pray with your arms crossed and do you say 'ameen' after al-Fatiha? If you do then you are following Sunni Islam as neither Shia nor Ibadhi Islam agree with either of those.
It's very noble for someone to say they are a 'pure Muslim' but, and I mean no offence, I believe it to be fanciful to believe you can be one in this day and age. Everyone always falls into the trap of following one particular sect, as I know I am not learned with all Sunni, Shia and Ibadhi hadith to know which one is the correct one to follow, and so would never claim to be on such a path. Thankfully, Ibadhi Islam answers my questions with regard to fiqh and theology and gives reasonable reasons for the answers given, and so I have chosen to follow it.
The Wahhabi/Salafi for example say that they follow 'pure Islam' but when it comes down to it most are Athari in theology and a variant of Hanbali in fiqh, thus putting them squarely in the camp of ahl-al Sunnah!
Let me ask then Neena, do you pray with your arms crossed and do you say 'ameen' after al-Fatiha? If you do then you are following Sunni Islam as neither Shia nor Ibadhi Islam agree with either of those.
It's very noble for someone to say they are a 'pure Muslim' but, and I mean no offence, I believe it to be fanciful to believe you can be one in this day and age. Everyone always falls into the trap of following one particular sect, as I know I am not learned with all Sunni, Shia and Ibadhi hadith to know which one is the correct one to follow, and so would never claim to be on such a path. Thankfully, Ibadhi Islam answers my questions with regard to fiqh and theology and gives reasonable reasons for the answers given, and so I have chosen to follow it.
The Wahhabi/Salafi for example say that they follow 'pure Islam' but when it comes down to it most are Athari in theology and a variant of Hanbali in fiqh, thus putting them squarely in the camp of ahl-al Sunnah!
Let me tell you something before I answer your question brother.
Both the Sunni and Abadi sections make sense to me, and I take from them both things that I feel I am comfertable with. But when it come to She'a NO, I don;t believe in it one bit, because the vast majroty of their Fiqh don;t make sense to ME."my opinion"
Anyway going back to your question: I pray with both the position, wehther my arms are crossed or straight on the side! It depends how I am feeling at the Salat time, because to my believe and Understanding that has nothing to do with a ruling in prayers, as long your Iman, and focus is about worshiping Allah, than you are on the right side. And we do know from some hadith that the prophet "PBUH" was witnessed before praying in both ways!
When it comes to Saying Amin afetr the Fatiha, I don;t see it being not right not close it with Amin, because the last the Fatiha start with praising Allah" and ends with a Duaa" and we all know that a Duaa ends with Amin! So yes I do say Amin, because it makes perfect sense to me!
The so mentioned sects originally, if you went to read history, are all the same. However, they differ in terms of politics. The leaked misleading information and gossip introduced impairments into the original teaching of Islam, that is by Qur'an and Mohammad PBUH. Those impairments grew stronger and worse to the point they are now called sects. Sects is a false word, we all should be under the same sect with the same teachings and leave politics and history behind. but oh well, it never happens. I honestly feel that some do this just to be unique. No one knows who really who stood with who and who didn't contribute.
I do not agree with people who follow "pick & mix", they do not make sense to me.
Kavalec
09-11-10, 09:27 PM
...
but the practical realities of it in my opinion is that it is not possible given the situation that Islam finds itself in, and so one therefore needs to affiliate with one sect or another.
...
Salaam
I can privately follow the best understanding of Islam I can find.
And I can do this without declaring myself a member of any sect.
If I declare myself part of a sect then I am disobeying what Allah commands in His book...
VERILY, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects - thou hast nothing to do with them. Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing.
-- Al An'am 6:159 (http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/6/159/)
[Turn, then, away from all that is false,] turning unto Him [alone]; and remain conscious of Him, and be constant in prayer, and be not among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him,
[or] among those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects, each group delighting in but what they themselves hold [by way of tenets].
-- Ar Rum 30:31 (http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/30/31/) - 32 (http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/30/32/)
So, yes the Ibadhi and Mutazili - and some (some!) of the current Return-to-the-Qur'an movements - are clearly the closest we have to Islam as it was sent to us by our Creator; it nevertheless remains incumbent on us to OBEY His commands.
And not being sectarian is one of those clear commands.
As always, Allahu Alim
Salaam
I can privately follow the best understanding of Islam I can find.
And I can do this without declaring myself a member of any sect.
If I declare myself part of a sect then I am disobeying what Allah commands in His book...
VERILY, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects - thou hast nothing to do with them. Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing.
-- Al An'am 6:159 (http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/6/159/)
[Turn, then, away from all that is false,] turning unto Him [alone]; and remain conscious of Him, and be constant in prayer, and be not among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him,
[or] among those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become sects, each group delighting in but what they themselves hold [by way of tenets].
-- Ar Rum 30:31 (http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/30/31/) - 32 (http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/30/32/)
Yes, but each sect claims that it is the original Islam and it is the others who have broken the unity of the faith, as such they (in their opinion) are still obeying the verses you quoted. After all, the Prophet (saw) said that Islam would divide into 73 groups, but only one will be the true jamat. Therefore, I still stand by my original statements.
Kavalec
10-11-10, 12:12 AM
Yes, but each sect claims that it is the original Islam and it is the others who have broken the unity of the faith, as such they (in their opinion) are still obeying the verses you quoted. After all, the Prophet (saw) said that Islam would divide into 73 groups, but only one will be the true jamat. Therefore, I still stand by my original statements.
Indeed, every sect thinks it is THE sect.
But the Qur'an does not tell us of 73 groups. We are only told NOT to divide.
My own understanding is closer to Ibadhi than any other group,
but I remain a Muslim.
Unhyphenated.
May Allah guide us all.
Stargirl
10-11-10, 04:27 PM
Well just as others have already stated, there are few differences btwn sunni and ibadi's
u should google it..
google has all ur answers...
lol ..
Indeed, every sect thinks it is THE sect.
But the Qur'an does not tell us of 73 groups. We are only told NOT to divide.
My own understanding is closer to Ibadhi than any other group,
but I remain a Muslim.
Unhyphenated.
May Allah guide us all.
listen to me brother the Quran does not tell you everything about Islam
you should also folow the SUNNAH
Islam is Quran and Sunnah
the Ibadi sect dismissed more than the half of the Sunnah
they don't accept thousands of authentic Hadiths including what is in Bukhari and Muslim!!!!
they say it's "Ahad" ie. narrated by one person only!!!
or they will tell you it's not compatible with Quran
they use their common sense and their brains rather than accepting the actual script (Quran and Sunnah) as it was stated.
got it?
From reading some of the posts in this thread, I "sense" that people don't know "enough" about the difference between Ibadhi and Sunni sect. The differences are not minor as some people claim.
The two sects differing in Islamic jurisprudence (فقه) is not a big deal, however, them differing in the main doctrine (عقيدة) is a huge issue whether we like it or not. For example, when an Ibadhi says that the Quran is created (مخلوق), this is consider blasphemes in the Sunni sect and hence moves that individual out of the circle of Islam. This also holds when a Sunni Muslim says that the Quran is Allah spoken words (uncreated), which is also considered blasphemes by the abadhi sect.
Stargirl
11-11-10, 10:25 AM
^^ I never knew that....
the Ibadi sect dismissed more than the half of the Sunnah
they don't accept thousands of authentic Hadiths including what is in Bukhari and Muslim!!!!
Which sunnah they have dismissed?
Don't forget that Ibadi sect have their own collection of Hadith book which has strong narations compared to other hadith books.
I prefer to stay Sunni forever but I don't believe in the 73 group hadith. We have strong believers in each sect and I can't imagine Allah throwing someone in hell ignoring their strong faith.
server 29
11-11-10, 12:53 PM
two mens made their decisions, and im pretty sure, they had their own researches, and know enough about everythin thats bein talked in here..
and an advice. if they are looking forward to know more about Ibadi, then they shall concentrate on Omani-Ibadi scientists.. or even come to Oman to see the sect from a closer look.. =)
From reading some of the posts in this thread, I "sense" that people don't know "enough" about the difference between Ibadhi and Sunni sect. The differences are not minor as some people claim.
The two sects differing in Islamic jurisprudence (فقه) is not a big deal, however, them differing in the main doctrine (عقيدة) is a huge issue whether we like it or not. For example, when an Ibadhi says that the Quran is created (مخلوق), this is consider blasphemes in the Sunni sect and hence moves that individual out of the circle of Islam. This also holds when a Sunni Muslim says that the Quran is Allah spoken words (uncreated), which is also considered blasphemes by the abadhi sect.
I don't like to turn this topic into debate between Sunnah and Ibadi, but you are right there are a lot of difference in "aqeeda" between the two sects, I will give more examples besides the Quran being created, which the Ibadi falsely believe:
the Ibadi believe that Allah swt exists every where and there is no specific place for his existence
the Sunni believe Allah swt is on his throne (chair) which occupies the seven skies and earth as mentioned in Quran, and his knowledge is everywhere he is closer to us than our vanes in our bodies and he knows every little and big things we do.
the Ibadi believe that major sinners if they die and didn't repent they will be abided in hellfire forever
Sunni believe that major sinners if they die and did not repent it's up to Allah swt if he forgives them or torments them
the Ibadi deny "shafa'ah" of the Prophet :PBUH: which is pleading to Allah swt to forgive the sinners and save them from hellfire on the day of Judgement.
the Sunni believe strongly in the "shafa'ah"
the Ibadi don't believe we will see Allah swt on the day of Judgement nor in heaven
the Sunni strongly believe that we will see Allah swt on the day of judgement and specially in heaven, the same as we see the full moon.
the Ibadi don't believe that Allah swt have hands, legs, eyes, face
the Sunni believe otherwise that Allah swt have hands, legs, eyes, face unlike our organs we have, as stated clearly in the Quran and Sunnah.
the Ibadi deny "serat" pathway on hellfire and also deny the scale "mezan" which good deeds and bad deeds are weigh on.
the Sunni believe in both.
may be there are more differences but that's what I can recall now.
Which sunnah they have dismissed?.
read my previous reply and you will know which sunnah the Ibadhi have dismissed.
Nocia9600
11-11-10, 01:22 PM
I'm Ibadi and have no problem with other school of thought. As long as we all believe in Allah swt, the prophet Mohammed saw, the Qur'an, All The previous mentioned prophets and their revealed books, The Angles, The Day of Judgment and I know Arkani (Pillar) L Islam and iman is the same, arkani of salat is the same.
Now about the difference whether the Qur’an was created or not or we will c Allah or not etc. those just difference in the interpretation of the Qur’an. And leave them to the scholars.
Kavalec
11-11-10, 05:30 PM
the Ibadi believe that Allah swt exists every where and there is no specific place for his existence
Allah CREATED all places, therefore He supersedes all places.
the Sunni believe Allah swt is on his throne (chair) which occupies the seven skies and earth as mentioned in Quran
And the Ibadhi believe this is a similitude of His STATUS, that is all.
the Ibadi believe that major sinners if they die and didn't repent they will be abided in hellfire forever
Sunni believe that major sinners if they die and did not repent it's up to Allah swt if he forgives them or torments them
I believe this is overstated. Every Ibadhi believes everything is "up to Allah".
the Ibadi deny "shafa'ah" of the Prophet :PBUH: which is pleading to Allah swt to forgive the sinners and save them from hellfire on the day of Judgement.
More power to them.
Seventeen or more times a day a Muslim says
Iyyaka naAAbudu wa-iyyaka nastaAAeenu
It is good to see some of us sticking to that.
the Ibadi don't believe we will see Allah swt on the day of Judgement nor in heaven
the Sunni strongly believe that we will see Allah swt on the day of judgement and specially in heaven, the same as we see the full moon.
We will perceive Him; beyond that we should not speculate.
the Ibadi don't believe that Allah swt have hands, legs, eyes, face
the Sunni believe otherwise that Allah swt have hands, legs, eyes, face unlike our organs we have, as stated clearly in the Quran and Sunnah.
All of these are functions of FORM which presupposes SPACE.
And Allah CREATES space, it does not superseded Him!
the Ibadi deny "serat" pathway on hellfire and also deny the scale "mezan" which good deeds and bad deeds are weigh on.
the Sunni believe in both.
EVERYTHING we are told of the afterlife is a similitude.
As always, Allahu alim
From reading some of the posts in this thread, I "sense" that people don't know "enough" about the difference between Ibadhi and Sunni sect. The differences are not minor as some people claim.
The two sects differing in Islamic jurisprudence (فقه) is not a big deal, however, them differing in the main doctrine (عقيدة) is a huge issue whether we like it or not. For example, when an Ibadhi says that the Quran is created (مخلوق), this is consider blasphemes in the Sunni sect and hence moves that individual out of the circle of Islam. This also holds when a Sunni Muslim says that the Quran is Allah spoken words (uncreated), which is also considered blasphemes by the abadhi sect.
I completely agree! If the differences had been minor, as many on here are under the delusion they are, and as such can simply be a 'Muslim' without giving much notice to the differences of fiqh and theology, then I would have remained a Sunni and would not have changed school!
read my previous reply and you will know which sunnah the Ibadhi have dismissed.
Still I don't see Ibadhi's dismissed anything from sunnah in your reply.
And I think Kavalec replied very well to your false understanding of some issues.
Ibadi do dismiss hadith that are opposing the Quran.
Kavalec
12-11-10, 01:22 PM
Ibadi do dismiss hadith that are opposing the Quran.
Alhamdulillah!
Ibadi do dismiss hadith that are opposing the Quran.
Well said.
The list of which you have posted above there, I don;t see that being ANY of a difference that would actually make the 2 section BE THAT different in the way they they perform their religion.
Those differences which you have listed as things which does not interfear on the IMPORTANT thing in the Islam religion which is Shahada, prayers, fasting haj, Iman, etc,,, the piilers!
So, just because scholars to scholars will differe on how they interpret the quran, than I guess its normal, each one would have a different idea, because they are differen't people with differen;t minds, nothing big!
Ibadi do dismiss hadith that are opposing the Quran.
Alhamdulillah!
Well said.
listen to me the three of you:
there is no contradiction what so ever between Quran and Sunnah
and the Hadith which says that is a false Hadith.
From reading some of the posts in this thread, I "sense" that people don't know "enough" about the difference between Ibadhi and Sunni sect. The differences are not minor as some people claim.
The two sects differing in Islamic jurisprudence (فقه) is not a big deal, however, them differing in the main doctrine (عقيدة) is a huge issue whether we like it or not. For example, when an Ibadhi says that the Quran is created (مخلوق), this is consider blasphemes in the Sunni sect and hence moves that individual out of the circle of Islam. This also holds when a Sunni Muslim says that the Quran is Allah spoken words (uncreated), which is also considered blasphemes by the abadhi sect.
I don't like to turn this topic into debate between Sunnah and Ibadi, but you are right there are a lot of difference in "aqeeda" between the two sects, I will give more examples besides the Quran being created, which the Ibadi falsely believe:
the Ibadi believe that Allah swt exists every where and there is no specific place for his existence
the Sunni believe Allah swt is on his throne (chair) which occupies the seven skies and earth as mentioned in Quran, and his knowledge is everywhere he is closer to us than our vanes in our bodies and he knows every little and big things we do.
the Ibadi believe that major sinners if they die and didn't repent they will be abided in hellfire forever
Sunni believe that major sinners if they die and did not repent it's up to Allah swt if he forgives them or torments them
the Ibadi deny "shafa'ah" of the Prophet :PBUH: which is pleading to Allah swt to forgive the sinners and save them from hellfire on the day of Judgement.
the Sunni believe strongly in the "shafa'ah"
the Ibadi don't believe we will see Allah swt on the day of Judgement nor in heaven
the Sunni strongly believe that we will see Allah swt on the day of judgement and specially in heaven, the same as we see the full moon.
the Ibadi don't believe that Allah swt have hands, legs, eyes, face
the Sunni believe otherwise that Allah swt have hands, legs, eyes, face unlike our organs we have, as stated clearly in the Quran and Sunnah.
the Ibadi deny "serat" pathway on hellfire and also deny the scale "mezan" which good deeds and bad deeds are weigh on.
the Sunni believe in both.
may be there are more differences but that's what I can recall now.
All the mentioned things are in the category of Ghaybeyat ( The UnKnowns ), thus they don't affect our faith in Allah.
You guys ( I mean all who believe in the sects importance ) reminded me of a story when I was in the university, my sunni friend came to me and said, you guys say that the holy quran is created. And I was like huh? He added, Ibadhis say this and you're Ibadhi. I said, did you hear me saying the quran is created? ( regardless what I think about this subject ). And I know that he knows mostly nothing about his own sect but the way of performing the prayer, thus I told him that sunnis say that even muslims go to hell permanently if their sins are more than good deeds so there would be no difference between them and infidels when they sin. He said this is logic everyone should earn heaven.
Of course what I told him is the Ibadhi belief not sunni and he agreed with it cos he THOUGHT it's sunni as I told him so his defense was just biased and this really made me laugh at the irnoy of our situation we muslims.
What would be the difference if we can see Allah or not? Let's first get to heaven the think about seeing Allah. If someone wants to believe that s/he can see Allah then be it, if another one thinks it's not going to happen then be it. We don't worship Allah tp see his face. And our faith in Allah won't decrease if the quran is created or His words? Would it for some people?!
Sects are the result of politics, personal greed and manipulation and some people, unfortunately most, fell for it and ready to kill for it. It's very sad when we bring a not credible past into our present and make it affect our relation with each other.
My advice to Kavalec, take from both sunnis, Ibadhis and even Shites and refuse from all as well. Take just what goes with the holy quran and then ask your heart and follow it. That's all and never complicate yourself with the sects thing.
What would be the difference if we can see Allah or not? Let's first get to heaven the think about seeing Allah. If someone wants to believe that s/he can see Allah then be it, if another one thinks it's not going to happen then be it. We don't worship Allah tp see his face. And our faith in Allah won't decrease if the quran is created or His words? Would it for some people?!
Sects are the result of politics, personal greed and manipulation and some people, unfortunately most, fell for it and ready to kill for it. It's very sad when we bring a not credible past into our present and make it affect our relation with each other.
My advice to Kavalec, take from both sunnis, Ibadhis and even Shites and refuse from all as well. Take just what goes with the holy quran and then ask your heart and follow it. That's all and never complicate yourself with the sects thing.
Enough said.
He's totally right.
And let's not deviate from the topic please
Enough said.
He's totally right.
And let's not deviate from the topic please
Braiki, the topic of the thread no longer applies though, as I came here looking for info on Ibadhi Islam back at the beginning of the year and found what I was looking for months ago. So, given that the topic is redundant you should either close the thread, or allow it to grow organically as it seems to be doing.
Neena, the differences between Ibadhi and Sunni are not just with regards to fiqh. There are deep theological issues which divide the two, so much so that Ibn Baaz issued a fatwa stating that the Ibadhi were heretics. If there were only minor differences then he wold not have taken that action.
Braiki, the topic of the thread no longer applies though, as I came here looking for info on Ibadhi Islam back at the beginning of the year and found what I was looking for months ago. So, given that the topic is redundant you should either close the thread, or allow it to grow organically as it seems to be doing.
Neena, the differences between Ibadhi and Sunni are not just with regards to fiqh. There are deep theological issues which divide the two, so much so that Ibn Baaz issued a fatwa stating that the Ibadhi were heretics. If there were only minor differences then he wold not have taken that action.
Fujin, it would really be nice if I hear from you what is it that you loved about the Ibadhi section?
And if you be kind enough to list me more differences which you find to be sense to you.
Thanks
Fujin, it would really be nice if I hear from you what is it that you loved about the Ibadhi section?
And if you be kind enough to list me more differences which you find to be sense to you.
Thanks
Hi Neena,
I think you mean Ibadhi 'sect' - 'section' would be used when to referring to a block or row and when one was to refer to a part of a house for example. In a religious context when referring to different groups of a larger faith, one would use 'sect' or 'school'. Just so you know for future reference :)
As for why I chose the Ibadiyyah, there were a number of reasons.
Firstly, in matters of fiqh, it seemed odd to me that there were possibly four different ways to do something, but if I identified as a Shafi'i yet prayed qabd like a Maliki, my prayer would be void and I would have to redo it. There are numerous rulings such as this. That didn't and still doesn't make sense. I therefore felt there had to be one rule for salat and a number of other fiqh matters, and not four.
Secondly, upon researching Ibadhi theology, particularly with the aid of the book 'The Overwhelming Truth' by HE Sheikh Ahmad b. Hamad Al-Khalili, I found that many of the key Ibadhi beliefs of not seeing Allah, the belief that the Qur'an was created and is not eternal, that unrepentant sinners will remain in hell were all in keeping with what I had slowly began to believe was true. I also found within the book, many plausible arguments in favour of these beliefs, something which I never found in the Ahlal Sunnah to substantiate many of theirs. I also had the great privilege of meeting two great Ibadhi brothers to discuss these ideas, and their argument too convinved me of the truth of the Ibadhiyya argument. Alhamdulillah, I thank Allah (swt) that such a meeting was possible, and I have now made two very dear and lifelong friends as a result of it.
One must remember that I came from a Shafi'i background, and was originally Ashari in aqeedah, so these beliefs (that I held, as mentioned above, before labelling them) put me at major odds with the Ahlal Sunnah. As, from the outside, it looked as though I was becoming more like a Mutazili in aqeedah, which to many Sunni nowadays is regarded as a heresy. However, the Mutazili reliance on reason, particularly over the writings of the Qur'an, were too extreme for me, and with that, thankfully, I found the Ibadiyyah.
Thirdly, the way in which the Ibadhi have stringent rules regarding what it accepts as authentic hadith impressed me greatly. As, not to name names, there are a number of those who seemed to relate numerous ahadith, yet never spent enough time with the Prophet (saw) to collect that amount, either that or they had a superhuman memory, and as such recorded every single word the Prophet (saw) said in their presence, or at least within earshot of them, which I don't believe was the case.
I hope this gives you a rough idea of why I chose the Ibadhiyyah, I know its not all that detailed, but once I was to start I would write screeds! lol
Kavalec
14-11-10, 05:57 PM
listen to me the three of you:
there is no contradiction what so ever between Quran and Sunnah
and the Hadith which says that is a false Hadith.
Salaam
Indeed? Do you REALLY want to go down this path?
I have been studying the Qur'an for many years, and it has no contradictions.
Pull in the ahadith books of Ahl al Sunnah wal Jamaah and the contradictions come forth in a flood.
Salaam
Indeed? Do you REALLY want to go down this path?
I have been studying the Qur'an for many years, and it has no contradictions.
Pull in the ahadith books of Ahl al Sunnah wal Jamaah and the contradictions come forth in a flood.
And most of those contradictions can be attributed to one man whom Sunnis, more than most, rely on for the majority of their hadith.
That comment will probably cause WW3 on here now. I hope not though.
Braiki, the topic of the thread no longer applies though, as I came here looking for info on Ibadhi Islam back at the beginning of the year and found what I was looking for months ago. So, given that the topic is redundant you should either close the thread, or allow it to grow organically as it seems to be doing.
Thread is closed
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