Is there any GOD?

[Enjoy Ur Death]

it is interesting to know that some of our members here r looking for the truth and they don't believe in nay religion !! i would like to ask those members, if there is no GOD in this world, then who created the humankind ??!!
since we r discussing about the presence of any GOD i will be discussing with u according to the common sence and not according to any islamic or other religious rule ... pure common sence however i want smth from u:
1- to be logic and accepts whatever the logic & the common sence says
2- to be able to change ur mind and to support ur opinion logically rather than emotionally

[MoonChild]

You are interested in the beliefs of those of us who don't follow a particular religion... I could fill many pages but will try to be brief about my "core" beliefs :)

First, I believe that the human mind is incapable of truly comprehending the truth about the universe, as what can be known is infinite and the capacity of our brains is finite - some more than others ;)

Second, matters of religion are largely beyond "proof". We can believe many things, but truly KNOW very little, and most beliefs cannot be proved to others. (but some assertions can be dis-proved through observation and experimentation).

Given these two things, I have many beliefs but am not so arrogant as to think that they are TRUTH - it is just my attempt at understanding the universe and it's inhabitants.

So here are some of my beliefs:

We are all spirits, or souls, which exist before birth, during our tenure as human beings, and after the death of those human bodies. I see no reason for the spirit to "die" when the body does, and no reason for it not to return in another body (reincarnation) or move on to other adventures.

I believe that the universe is full of "life force" which has an inherent awareness and intelligence - we can call this "God". This energy, this self-awareness is vastly more complex than we can comprehend or even imagine. As part of the fabric of existence, and including all things, it has no gender or "personality".

As spirits in human form, we are aware of this energy around us, we dimly remember our experiences and knowledge while not in human form... and our attempts to re-discover that knowledge are called "religion" or "spirituality". Because we are social beings, most of us are uncomfortable with the idea of a vast, impersonal intelligence - that scares us and is not comforting. So we personalize God (or Goddess) - make if familiar (male or female), give it human attributes, and hope that it (He) cares about us personally.

I also believe that spirits can exist at many "levels" of awareness and in many forms. After all, why would something as vast as the universe produce only humans? Some of these beings we (historically) have interacted with, and have named them demons, angels, aliens, fairies - even gods. Those who are more adept at manipulating the sea of energy we could easily name as gods - after all they produce miracles (ie do things that we can't).

As far as religion goes, I think most religions have a bit of the Truth in them, but that almost all are caught up in the details - that is, they are tailored for a particular culture or level of understanding of their society, which is useful for instructing the people of that society in how to live together, but cannot be generalized to all peoples in all times.

[Enjoy Ur Death]

thanks for ur posting ...
i am really interested to know more about ur beliefs ( as well as others who don't follow any particular religion )

can i ask u smth ... how was human being made (according to ur belief ) ?? can u tell me please

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death
it is interesting to know that some of our members here r looking for the truth and they don't believe in nay religion !! i would like to ask those members, if there is no GOD in this world, then who created the humankind ??!!

There may well be a God, or gods, or something that is as a god in comparison to us. I cannot deny that.

However, there is no more evidence to support the existence of God (yours or another's) than say, many gods, or ultra-intelligent invisible wombats. The lack of a natural explanation for any event doesn't support that there is a God, gods, or said wombats. People tend to assign to the supernatural those things for which they don't have an explanation.

It can also be stated that there is no evidence that there isn't a God, gods, or our friendly ultra-intelligent, invisible wombats. I'll wager that there is no evidence that proves that no ultra-intelligent, invisible wombats have read the posts on this Sabla.

Your question "if there is no GOD in this world, then who created the humankind ??!! " may be improperly stated. It wouldn't necessarily be "who" but "what" created humankind. The evidence found in the fossil record, ands biological - DNA, anatomy and phisiology, blood protiens, etc. strongly support the contention that we are a kind of ape. Whatever forces are behind the making of animal life on this planet, appears responsible for making us.

Ok, enough typed on only 1 coffee ;)

[Enjoy Ur Death]

thank u for ur posting wanderer, it wsa nice

so wanderer, can we preceede with this discussion if u don't mind ?
according to what i have understood from u (and sorry if i misunderstood u ) there r some evidences that there is/r God(s) and there r some evidences that there is no nay God, hope i got u right , please correct me if i didn't and sorry for that

However, there is no more evidence to support the existence of God (yours or another's)




It can also be stated that there is no evidence that there isn't a God, gods, or our friendly ultra-intelligent, invisible wombats

so, can i ask ur opinion ?? there is very known logic rule which states that ( simoltaneous coexistence of the contrasts is impossible) i.e. nothing can exist at the same time when it is not existing ??!! . so do(es) God(s) exists(s)??!!

regarding human beings, if u say that the force responsible for making animals is responsible for making us then how could this force (which is a power rather than thinking thing) could differentiate the way we were made from animals, different animals from each other, and balance the wild life with different animals?
how come that force be able to make us in this highly organised way so it made ion channels , herat, brain ...ect , for which very big machines r needen ot compensate their work when they r stopped in operation theaters... does it sound logic ?
just saking ... :rolleyes:

[yellow sapphire]

Enjoy Ur Death
you know according to me,it is not that easy to know if there is God.we are just muslims coz it is wiratha,just coz i am from muslim family and muslim family have quran and in quran there is mentioned about God but what if i am not from muslim family what if i am from a family who say there is no God.you know how we worship God and we do not see Him,how that is possible.
same thing about al'3ibiyat,we know it only cos we r muslims and we have quran so we have to believe about heaven and hell and malaekah and so on coz it is in quran which is muslims book from God.
otherwise who believe our prophet went from makkah to alquds and came back in maybe few seconds or minutes or so.only coz it is in quran.
here i want to say something about God but i know it is better for me not to say it coz i feel i will be eaten up by most of the members.

[Enjoy Ur Death]

i am sorry yellow sapphire, i don't agree with u in some of ur opinions this time :)


we are just muslims coz it is wiratha,just coz i am from muslim family and muslim family have quran and in quran there is mentioned about God but what if i am not from muslim family what if i am from a family who say there is no God

i don't know what u r aiming to my friend but u have to beliieve in smth that created u, that thing is called God, whether u believe in ALLAH, supranatural power, conincidence or whatever, at the end u have to believe in smth created/made u ?

and since the participants here were believing in some sort of smth created the life on this land we precceeded to know what is this thing??

sorry if i didn't get u correctly ??!!

[yellow sapphire]

oh now i know so your thread for those who believe in the creator not for those who do not believe in him at all like shoyo3iieen.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death
according to what i have understood from u (and sorry if i misunderstood u ) there r some evidences that there is/r God(s) and there r some evidences that there is no nay God, hope i got u right , please correct me if i didn't and sorry for that

That's not what I meant, EUD. There is NO evidence SUPPORTING that there is a God, gods, or ultra-intelligent invisible wombats, that cannot also be to support other contentions, arguements or explained by non-supernatural causes. There is also NO evidence that there isn't a God, gods, or ultra-intelligent invisible wombats.

A common problem is attributing to God, gods, and now ultra-intelligent invisible wombats, anything we cannot explain. What causes the moon to wax and wane - dragons, gods, wombats ? We now know it's just the shadow of the Earth and orbits. What causes the Sun to move across the sky? We now know that it doesn't - we are the ones moving. Just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean God, gods, or ultra-intelligent invisible wombats are responsible. Otherwise all unsolved murders should be assigned to God, gods, or ultra-intelligent invisible wombats.


Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death

so, can i ask ur opinion ?? there is very known logic rule which states that ( simoltaneous coexistence of the contrasts is impossible) i.e. nothing can exist at the same time when it is not existing ??!! . so do(es) God(s) exists(s)??!!

The rule you state cannot determine whether God exists or not. I don't know if gods exist.


Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death

regarding human beings, if u say that the force responsible for making animals is responsible for making us then how could this force (which is a power rather than thinking thing) could differentiate the way we were made from animals, different animals from each other, and balance the wild life with different animals?

You assume that we are different from animals. We aren't. Biologically, we ARE animals and, specifically, a type of ape. We have the same bones and muscles in our bodies as apes. Differentation between species and within species appears to be a function of genetics, environment and time.



Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death

how come that force be able to make us in this highly organised way so it made ion channels , herat, brain ...ect , for which very big machines r needen ot compensate their work when they r stopped in operation theaters... does it sound logic ?
just saking ... :rolleyes:

If these things didn't happen, then we wouldn't be here debating them. The "forces" did create complex organisms, but it took time; most of the world's history of life is about virus and bacteria. IN fact, it can be argued that the most successful life form is bacteria. They have existed longer and live everywhere we do and more.

Hearts, eyes, livers, sex organs, brains, intestines, and the very same bio-chemistry, etc., are all found in other animals and are not unique to humans. Thus we may conclude that we are animals too. That they are found in life forms that developed earlier than humans may indicate that all of these organs and biochemistries have had a long time to develop and may have very old precursors.

45 years ago only male PhD mathamaticians and physists in a handful of western countries could operate room-sized computers, and these computers could only do the simpliest calculations. Please observe the computer before you and the operator's (your) qualifications with respect to previous requirements. As with the development of computational devices, no doubt there will be great developments in biomechanical equipment in the coming years.

[Qahtany]

The famous physicist Sir Fred Hoyle makes a very striking observation about the origin of life.

In his book The Intelligent Universe he writes:

The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way (by coincidence) is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein. (Nature, 12 November, 1981)

Just as a hurricane cannot produce an airplane as a result of coincidences, neither is it possible for the universe to have come into being as a result of unanticipated happenings and moreover to harbour extremely complex structures therein. In truth, the universe is furnished with myriad systems of an infinitely greater complexity than those of an airplane

It is He Who brought you forth from the wombs of your mothers when you knew nothing; and He gave you hearing and sight and intelligence and affections: that you may give thanks (to Allah). (Surat an-Nahl, 78)

As stated in the verse, it is none but Allah Who has given you everything you own and Who created the universe you live in.

Therefore,Wanderer, yellow sapphire, MoonChild and others in doubt :confused: come and submit your whole self to Allah and be grateful to Him for all the blessings He has endowed you with and thereby earn an eternal reward. If you do the opposite, you will be showing ingratitude and exposing yourself to a penalty that, by the will of Allah, shall last forever. :fire:

Be assured:

He does exist and He is very close to you…

He sees and knows everything that you do, and hears every word you utter…

And be assured that everyone, including me and you, will soon give account to Him…

Any help guys its not a joke :weep:

Qahtani

source : Harun Yahya

[shamsery]

Continue the discussion. You will get the answer of your question. Go ahead with open eyes and unbiased conscious. Thanks ,it’s a good thread.

[fatak]

Do you really expect an answer to that question? Good Luck!!!

For the most part any person will be in awe of the power of nature and the creations of life. Although I am still trying to figure out what's the deal with mosqitoes and other creepy bugs....

I am still struggling with that, and from all the bad examples of so called religious people.....I for sure want to stay clear of organized religion.....but I read a lot of religious texts....and see the positive works of many.

It's kind of like our family reunions......everything starts out fine with everyone being so polite and kind to each other, then after a couple of hours start fighting like hell......

I can see amazingly good things in all the religions.......but people can't seem to tolerate other people's views....and are not compassionate......so I wonder why they bother to follow religion if they can't accept basic human concepts.....you can find wisdom in all the great religions.....but ignorant people.

Most people can't even treat other people right.......so instead of following some religious text I prefer to show graditute to the higher power by treating others with compassion and try to treat them as I want to be treated.....and NOT judge all the time because of differences.....so I respect it when a person says I don't eat pork, ( more for me ) but I just don't want to be dragged out in the street and beaten for wolfing down some BBQ ribs.........

But mankind will most likely destroy each other rather then respect each other, because they lack the understanding of the basic concepts.....and they have foolish pride which says I am right because of my God!!!!!

Even though I have had some bad luck in my family..this last year with some muslim people, I never judge then as all bad......

1. My brother was beaten in Montreal by 5 Algierian guys....on the street...in the daytime......the attack was provoked by them saying something like "Hey we want to kill you faggot (gay)......so he slapped the guy....and a whole bunch of guys jumped him..
2. Our furniture factory in Indonesia was looted and we lost alot of money.....and our staff lost their jobs.....by Jihad gangs who wanted to hurt Americans......
3. A girl here I know was molested by a Muslim teacher at a Islam study center
4. A Omani girl broke my heart.because she is too beautiful!!!! LOL..not her fault I guess...mama mia!!!!!

But the point is.....whether you believe in God or not......just trying to be a good person may be enough.....not in words but by actions.....

My favorite religious people are Martin Luther King, Gandi and Mother Teresa and Dali Lama.......and for muslims......Mouhamed Ali.......Malcom X, and the guy who invented hoummous.....anyone know?

Cheers
fatak

[shamsery]

Dear Mr.Fatak,
Why you do not try to search ? Instead of talking right and left please concentrate and read.

[Equality]

The Qur'an does not impose faith as an unquestionable dogma; it does not force people to believe without questions. On the contrary, if the slogan in other faiths may be believe and don't think, or if you think you will disbelieve, in the Qur'an the slogan is: you only believe if you think. So to convince us that Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) is our creator the Qur'an says:
We created you. Will you not then believe? Have you seen that which you emit? Is it you who Create it or are we the creator? We destined death among you, and we are not to be outrun, that we may transfigure you and make you what you know not. And you already knew the first creation. Why then don't you reflect? Have you seen that which you plough? Is it you who foster it or are we the fosterer? If we so will, we could make it chaff, then would you continue to exclaim: we are laden with debt! Nay we are deprived! Have you observed water that you drink? Is it you who shed it from the rain-cloud or are we the shedder? If we so will we could make it bitter, why then don't you give thanks? Have you observed fire which you strike out? Was it you who created its tree, or were we the originator? We appointed it as a reminder and an enjoyment for dwellers of the wilderness. Therefore, glorify the name of your lord the tremendous ( 56:57-74 )

The Qur'an then compares between Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) and false gods in the following words:
Say: praise be to Allah, and peace be upon his slaves whom he has chosen. Is Allah best, or all that they ascribe as partners (unto him)? Is not he best who created heavens and earth and sends down for you water from the sky wherewith we cause to grow joyous gardens, whose trees you can never cause to grow. Is there any god beside Allah? Nay, but they are people who ascribe equals (to Allah). Is not he (best) who made the earth an established abode, and placed rivers across its folds, and made firm mountains for it and has set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any god beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not. Is not he (best) who answers the oppressed one when he cries unto him, and removes evil and makes you viceroys of the earth? Is there any god beside Allah? Little do they reflect. Is not he (best) who guides you in the darkness of land and sea and who sends winds as heralds of his mercy? Is there any god beside Allah? Exalted be Allah above all they ascribe (unto him). Is not he (best) who starts creation, then reproduces it and who provides for you from heaven and earth? Is there any god beside Allah? Bring your proof if you are truthful. Say: none in heavens and earth knows the unseen except Allah; and they know not when they will be resurrected.( 27:59-66 )

The Qur'an then uses another method of reasoning to prove that Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) is the creator:
verily we created man from a produce of wet earth; then we made him a drop of seed in a safe Lodging; we then fashioned the drop a clot, then we fashioned the clot a chewed lump; then we fashioned the chewed lump into bones; then we clothed the bones with flesh; then we made it as another creation. So blessed be Allah the best of creators!( 23:12-14 )

Once the Qur'an establishes this basic fact of faith namely that Allah is the creator of all things, it moves one step further and proves that it is Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) who causes the death of his creation and it is he who will bring them back to life. In the words of the Qur'an we read:
then after that you will surely die. Then on the day of judgement you will be resurrected. ( 23:15-16 )

[fatak]

Dear Mr.S

I ask you the same question.....

Why do you only see one way.....why don't you look around...right and left.....?

Do you only see the world in black in white?

Is a spiritual leader of the Hopi Indians in Oklahoma any different in his devotion to God then an Islamic Iman in your country?

Does it matter which road you take if the distination is the same?

Once again.......where there is no compassion or tolerance towards others there is no real respect for God.......

It seems a lot of people are turning away from the church and going back to God.

I really think tit for tat chats on religions, where all religions claim only they have the right answers via their religious texts are one of the main sources of conflicts in the last 2000 years......because a man who kills another man who is a NON believer feels nothing.

BTW.....the Hopi Indians are a beautiful, peaceful, spiritual people, as many Muslims are as well.

Cheers
fatak

[Enjoy Ur Death]

mr wounderer, sorry for not continuing the discusion, i was busy with few things but i wish to know more from u if u don't mind

1st
u said that human r similar to animals, i might agree in that in term of they r created but dear the anatomy of them is diffferent as well as biochemistry + the prese3nce of the brain cortex which is missing inthe animals and by which only humans can think and have other mental functions ... + u urself and other members said that men r not the same as women then how shall human be like animals ...

2nd
lets as assume that there is no God ... would u believe that the creation was cooincidence, if u said yes then would u expect a post from u admitting that there is an ALLAH only by cooincidence ??!! i don't think that this makes any sence .... so in the same way it doesn't make any sence for the cooincidence creation..

let us discuss the point of cooincidence only at the 1st please , thanx

[shamsery]

Reply to Mr. Fatak,
I never advocated you to examine one side of the coin. Rather I requested you to examine both side of the coin. If you are an atheist, there is no use of quoting verse from any holly books. It would be better to discuss which schools of thoughts are correct. At the same time on the same issue two cannot be correct.
Question of destination: If the path is wrong you cannot reach to the same destination. Compassion or tolerances towards others are the pre-condition of fair discussion. During discussion we must be respectful to each other and must not heart others sentiments. I personally do not believe in the policy tit for tat. As you are a conscious gentleman, it is your responsibility to find out which religious text is correct and which you will follow. We can only assist you by supplying information. We can only invite you to follow the right path. I do not have the idea of Hopi Indians thoughts.

[Shakoosh Kabir]

"...i would like to ask those members, if there is no GOD in this world, then who created the humankind ??!! "


I am in broad agreement with Wanderer on this one. Our ancestors created humanity when they came down from the trees.:cool:

[shamsery]

Dear Professor Kabir,
Is this not wise to put arguments in favor of your statements?

[IceTea]

I would like those who are saying there is no God or no evidence of God existance to tell me about the soul. Who is giving you the soul to be alive before you born ?, where is the soul in your body can you see it ?And who is taking the soul from your body when you die ?

[shamsery]

Ice Tea,
Do you think this is enough evidence to proof the existence of God to the atheist?

[IceTea]

Originally posted by shamsery
Ice Tea,
Do you think this is enough evidence to proof the existence of God to the atheist?

Yes its enough.
And BTW this is just one evidence out of infinity.

[Shakoosh Kabir]

Shamsery

Faith is a strange thing. If you have it, it can be nurtured and strengthened. If you do not have it, it can be acquired. If you have have had it and then lost it, nothing can restore it short of a miracle.

[Qahtany]

Using science to support evolution, mutation and so on are just claims because there arent any scientific evidences to back them, but rather science denounce such claims.

If science nullify some of the religions I'am afraid it supports mine.

If you believe that you descend from animals then that is exactly what you are.

Its only recently that some scientist try to divorce religion from science, and their popularity will sooner or later vanish.

I like the name wombats do they mean (Women's Mountain Bike & Tea Society) ?

Just give me some time.

[Mobysat]

i think that you guys should change the name of this thread
with it you are moving to a really bad and deep area

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death
mr wounderer, sorry for not continuing the discusion, i was busy with few things but i wish to know more from u if u don't mind

That's quite alright. I've been a bit busy (and exhausted) myself recently.


Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death

1st
u said that human r similar to animals, i might agree in that in term of they r created but dear the anatomy of them is diffferent as well as biochemistry + the prese3nce of the brain cortex which is missing inthe animals and by which only humans can think and have other mental functions ... + u urself and other members said that men r not the same as women then how shall human be like animals ...


The anatomy of apes (and humans) is more similar than dissimilar. That is, there are no more differences between Gorilla and Chimp, than between Chimp and Human.

Perhaps you could identify the bone that chimps have that humans don't?

Men and woman humans are of the same species, so I can't imagine what you are talking about.



Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death

2nd
lets as assume that there is no God ... would u believe that the creation was cooincidence, if u said yes then would u expect a post from u admitting that there is an ALLAH only by cooincidence ??!! i don't think that this makes any sence .... so in the same way it doesn't make any sence for the cooincidence creation..

let us discuss the point of cooincidence only at the 1st please , thanx

What creation was coincidence ? The universe, the solar system, the atmosphere, life, primates, yesterday's weather, cheese burgers ? You have lumped things together so to make seem more complex.

BTW - is God a coincidence ?

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by IceTea
I would like those who are saying there is no God or no evidence of God existance to tell me about the soul. Who is giving you the soul to be alive before you born ?, where is the soul in your body can you see it ?And who is taking the soul from your body when you die ?

First, perhaps, you should tell us what a soul is: how big is it, how much does it weigh, how long does it last, where does it reside, why is mine better than yours, etc., and compare human souls with ultra-intelligent wombat souls please?

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Qahtany

If you believe that you descend from animals then that is exactly what you are.


It really doesn't matter what you or I believe. We either are or are not animals. We are not descended from animals, we are not distinct from "them", we are animals.

As a child you believed in things that you later learned were not so. Consider your current belief system - unfinished.

[IceTea]

Originally posted by Wanderer


First, perhaps, you should tell us what a soul is: how big is it, how much does it weigh, how long does it last, where does it reside, why is mine better than yours, etc., and compare human souls with ultra-intelligent wombat souls please?

This is the point, I can't tell you anything and no human being nor even Jinne can tell you or know anything about the soul. Because its one of the secrets of God and he is the only one who knows about it, as its mentioned in the quran. And even if Scientists try to find anything about the soul for 1000 years from now or more , they will not be able to give an answer.

[Enjoy Ur Death]

mr wounderer, i am still waiting for ur answer, would u believe that the creation was a coincidence ?

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by IceTea


This is the point, I can't tell you anything and no human being nor even Jinne can tell you or know anything about the soul. Because its one of the secrets of God and he is the only one who knows about it, as its mentioned in the quran. And even if Scientists try to find anything about the soul for 1000 years from now or more , they will not be able to give an answer.

Then you can hardly use it as a proof that God exists !!

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Enjoy Ur Death
mr wounderer, i am still waiting for ur answer, would u believe that the creation was a coincidence ?

Again, I should have to ask you to clarify what you mean by creation.

There was no "creation" of 6 days. While some of the timelines found in religious texts track well with conventional thought on history, they only artificially become a single event called "creation".

"Creation" must include the beginning of God too, since that is where you claim all starts.

"In the Begining, God created the heavens and the Earth" - that's IN THE BEGINING - not after God had been around awhile and later decided to make something. It is that all creation begins when God begins. So where do we define where "creation" begins and when God begins and how do we say what "creation" is without saying what God is, and when did it - creation end?

[IceTea]

Originally posted by Wanderer


Then you can hardly use it as a proof that God exists !!

Why, do you have to see by your eyes to believe in it and say its right proof or not. It is enough to know that it exists and feel it in yourbody, otherwise how come you are alive and you can read what I wrote for u and u can reply to me. And when its taken (the soul) from your body u will die. Is this not a proof that it exists, so why it is difficult for you believe it.

[Talius Brute]

Ice, don't be silly, you don't have a soul.

[Equality]

better than some one have nothing at all

[Talius Brute]

really, I would have thought it was worse, but there you go, that would explain all the terrorists.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by IceTea

And when its taken (the soul) from your body u will die. Is this not a proof that it exists, so why it is difficult for you believe it.

By this criteria, my cat, Cleo, and all of my goldfish have souls. Do they too have a Messiah ?

Is the soul taken from you causing you to die, or does the sould leave when you die ?

Don't get me wrong, I can believe that there is a soul - indeed a whole spiritual realm, but just feeling that there is one doesn't prove that one exists.

[Talius Brute]

God gives gifts to all creatures, no matter what their station or condition. He may give innocence to a lunatic, or heaven to a thief. Contrary to most theologians, I have always believed that even worms and weasels have souls, and that even they are capable of salvation.

[shamsery]

On what topics you are conducting the debate. On the existence of God, Soul or on the creation of the earth?

[Talius Brute]

All three, no point in being spartan

[Orion]

http://www.sinfest.net/comics/sf20000124.gif

[Wanderer]

All 3 have been called into question in this thread. Each has been referenced to "prove" the other in some expected circular logic.

[shamsery]

Each of the topics is very important and need very wide discussion. It is really difficult to discuss together.

[Talius Brute]

I would say it is impossible to discuss them separately

[shamsery]

O.K, from where we should start?

[Talius Brute]

Makes no difference to me.

How about:

One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent.

[shamsery]

Would you please elaborate your statement for my better understanding please?

[Talius Brute]

God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere.

It's very hard to expplain what God is, I think.

[shamsery]

Yes, it is hard to explain but easy to feel. But what is your stand?

[Talius Brute]

I have to agree with you. In my life, all that I have seen teaches me to trust the creator in all that I have not seen and do not undersstand.