why we say Ali waliyo Allah?

[yellow sapphire]

before i answer this question,i would like to know the explaination of this ayah "Allaho alsamed" in "alikhlas surah".

[abu Suleiman]

YS,
U R not clear, sometimes u asking qs as u r not a muslim and sometimes u put your explanation if a person gave answers for your qs.
Realy either u r confused or you just enjoing to post topics like this.
Allah alSAmad means that Allah is always the Only One that all ceations in need for Him in every thing.

I hop this is clear.
rgds, abu Suleiman.

[IceTea]

Why shee3a say this statment during the call for the prayer ?

[yellow sapphire]

abu Suleiman
the explaination of Allaho alsamed comes after this ayiah only.
"Allaho alsamed","lem yeled wa lem youled" so "lem yeled wa lem youled" translate "Allaho alsamed".as we know the best translation to quran is from quran itself.
let me say,r u agree with me in this or no so that we can continue otherwise there is no need to go ahead.

[yellow sapphire]

Originally posted by IceTea
Why shee3a say this statment during the call for the prayer ?
may be in azan i do not now why.
but i am saying why we say ali waliyo Allah(i am not talking about azan but generally).

[Kamakazy]

is it because Ali (karam allah wajhaho) never praied to statues

or

its a given name (lagab) given to him just like:

saif-o-lah (sword of god)

[samy]

It is cuz Abu Alhassanayn ( Krama alaah wajhuh) never prayed to a stature .. that is why the above description was given to him .

[yellow sapphire]

samy and Kamakazy
are both of you okey there or what.
did i say why we say karama allaho wajho.i said why we say ali walio Allah.
oh my God,i really can not understand what is going on there.

[samy]

Yaa akhee i am OK .. and i will leave our administrator to answer a bout his status ( but i am sure he is doing well too:) )
now u r asking WHY WE ... it is wrong cuz ONLY U ARE SAYING .. and not we ... is it clear ... so how we can answer something we do not beleive of .. i think u should answer us Why u r saying Ali( karama allh wajhaah) waliyo allah ?????????????????
as simple as that ... tell us ..cuz u know why?????????

[FaHaD]

heloo yellow saph..
first of all i am ok and fine al-hamdolillah..
now can i proceed since i am normal according to ur criteria..

first i don't know wether u have agreed on abu-sulieman translation or not..cos his translation is correct according to Dr. mohammed hussain hassan al-himsi...
so if that is correct what is ur next step ???

i am ok Laa..

[abu Suleiman]

Originally posted by yellow sapphire
abu Suleiman
the explaination of Allaho alsamed comes after this ayiah only.
"Allaho alsamed","lem yeled wa lem youled" so "lem yeled wa lem youled" translate "Allaho alsamed".as we know the best translation to quran is from quran itself.
let me say,r u agree with me in this or no so that we can continue otherwise there is no need to go ahead.

YS, you r mixing things all together wthout giving chance to others to make understood.
You have 2 questions is that right??
Ok
Question No 1 why Imam Ali ÑÖí Çááå Úäå æßÑã æÌåå) deserved the title : Waliyo Allah?
Question No 2 what is the meaning of Allah aSamad?
My question is:
What r the relation between the two subjects?

Regarding your q no 1. I think every muslim comply on Allah's instructions without seeking sins is deserved to be called walliyo Allah. Allah said:ÇáÇ Çä ÇæáíÇÁ Çááå áÇ ÎæÝ Úáíåã æ áÇ åã íÍÒäæä
Second q already I posted a reply, pls refer.

NOW YOU anser my Question. Who told u that aSamad means lam yalid wa lam yolad???

[yellow sapphire]

abu Suleiman
the quran only translates itself here,Allah alsamed,lem yeled wa lem youled.
it did not come "Allah alsamed(wa)lem yeled wa lem youled" ,it came without (wa).that means it translates the ayah which comes before it.
FaHaD
wait a little bit.i will come to your question :)

[abu Suleiman]

YS, you didnt answer my question and call all members of E sabla not to contribute on your posts unless you reply positively. :cool:

[Bimzoori]

the quran only translates itself here,Allah alsamed,lem yeled wa lem youled.
it did not come "Allah alsamed(wa)lem yeled wa lem youled" ,it came without (wa).that means it translates the ayah which comes before it.

Example: Tom is an intelligent, active, tidy and sociable student..

Question: does that mean intelligent = active ?! or active = tidy?!


Al-Samad is difficult to translate by one word...but basically it means "Eternal" and "Absolute"

Eternal= Allah is dependent on no person or things, but all persons or things are dependent on Him
Absolute= this implies that absolute existance can only be predicted of Him; all other existance is temporal or conditional
**source= Yusuf Ali's translation of the Holy Quran


Yellow Sapphire now what is the relation btwn the main question you asked (which is the topic of this thread) and the second question ?!

[FaHaD]

u know friend yelloww s. i like ur way.. ;)

[yellow sapphire]

FaHaD
thanks,i want you to say something about my logic in thread (i want to understand).

[IceTea]

I don't see any relation between the tiltle and the discussion :confused:

[yellow sapphire]

FaHaD
which translation is better,my translation which i brought it from quran itself or abu Suleiman's translation which he brought from Khamees and Rashid.your answer is important for me.

[abu Suleiman]

YS,
Since you gave that meaning from Quran, who told u that meaning is correct and who will bleive that??
Are not as same as Khamees or Rashed as you call them.
Why you ignore Arab language and Allah Has mentioned the right olama (scholars), who can bring right ahkam and right meaning of verses from Quran and ahadeeth.
Why you ignore them.
And trying to convince us to your meanings and explanations.
Didnt our prophet said that the olama are warathat val anbia???

[yellow sapphire]

Originally posted by abu Suleiman
YS,
Didnt our prophet said that the olama are warathat val anbia???
who knows what our prophet(peace be upon him) said and what he(peace be upon him) did not say.
let me tell you something said by my shaikh Ahmed Deedat in one of his debate.He said "we love Gesus christ and we want to follow him but give me his words,do not give me what someone else thinks that Gesus said".
i love Mohammed(peace be upon him) but give me his words,do not give me what Khamees thinks that our prophet(peace be upon him) said and what he(peace be upon him) did.

[Bimzoori]

Yellow, if you are going to refute books such as "Saheeh Bukhari", "Musnad Al-Imam Al-Rabee3", etc, etc and you call great scholars khamees and Rashid and Sa3doon..then what do you believe in ?

please consider the following verses from the Quran..

"Say:'Obey Allah and His Messenger': But if they turn their back, Allah loveth not thsoe who reject Faith" [Quran 3:32]

And the following one..

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and thsoe charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and Hid Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and teh Last Day..."[Quran 4:59]

And this one too...

"...He that obeys Allah and His Messenger, has already attained the highest Achievement"[Quran 33:71]

How do you expect to follow the Prophet's steps if you keep saying that what Ulama say is like Rashid and Khamees?? Those people have dedicated their lives to collect and review the prophetic sayings...they have also been able to distinguish between the ahadeeth which are saheeh, hasan, qabee7, fabricated, etc, etc..
No person is infallible, but if we refure what they say, who are we to believe? how are we going to perfect our religion by putting question marks on the ahadeeth??

[yellow sapphire]

sa3doon is a good and funny name we should add him in the list.but which list white or black,i do not know .
any way what ever you said my dear,i know about quran he said to follow our prophet and that why i want to follow him but as u see in this book this 3alim is saying something and in another book another 3alim is saying something else ,so why should i go to that 3alim and leave the other is it because my father follow that madhab.is it so.in this case no one is using his brain,although quran told us"afla yatafakaroon".
the quran told us"inna wajedna aabaana 3ala milah(or ommah),wa inna leatharihim moqtadoon"(forgive me if i made a mistake in ayah).

[abu Suleiman]

Dear YS,

U found it funny that Saadoon was mentioned with your Khameeees and your Rashed. By the way is he Rashed or Rasheeed!!!!!!!!!!!

Im not going to add anything beside what Bimzoori has said but I want u and others to remember this Hadeeth in saheeh Arabeea:
ÎáÝÊ Ýíßã ãÇ Åä ÊãÓßÊã Èå áä ÊÖáæÇ ÃÈÏÇ ßÊÇÈ Çááå ÚÒ æ Ìá ÝãÇ áã ÊÌÏæå Ýí ßÊÇÈ Çááå ÝÝí ÓäÊí ÝãÇ áã ÊÌÏæå Ýí ÓäÊí ÝÅáì Ãæáí ÇáÃãÑ ãäßã.
I u not going to trust our ulama so please find onother subject to post it as u do usualy. :D
Whome do u trust!!!! or u dont trust anyone.
Have the people of YAMEN trusted Muaadh ibn Jabal when he went as a messenger from The Messenger of Allah?????
ANSWER the question. ;)

[yellow sapphire]

abu Suleiman
i did not say what you are saying above.so please stop this nonsence :mad:
abu Suleiman
what happened to you.go have a cup of coffee then read my post well or you are doing this purposely.
by the way it is Rashid not Rashed or Rasheed.
if u want we can open a new thread and it will be between you and me and well start from zero and we do not want any memebr to say anything in the new thread.it will be a debate between u and me and i am ready.:fire:

[abu Suleiman]

YS,
You didnt answer my question.
Also ther is no need to open a new thread, because u dont answer our questionsb we have put them for u.
Second thing please read my earlier reply.
In other thread u asking me to aplogize for thing I didnt do but any way:
I apologize in one condition, that u tell that u respect all Islamic scholars otherwise I ask our friends to say did I hurt u directly or undirectly.:) :color: ;)

[yellow sapphire]

Originally posted by abu Suleiman
Dear YS,

U found it funny that Saadoon was mentioned with your Khameeees and your Rashed. By the way is he Rashed or Rasheeed!!!!!!!!!!!

Im not going to add anything beside what Bimzoori has said but I want u and others to remember this Hadeeth in saheeh Arabeea:
ÎáÝÊ Ýíßã ãÇ Åä ÊãÓßÊã Èå áä ÊÖáæÇ ÃÈÏÇ ßÊÇÈ Çááå ÚÒ æ Ìá ÝãÇ áã ÊÌÏæå Ýí ßÊÇÈ Çááå ÝÝí ÓäÊí ÝãÇ áã ÊÌÏæå Ýí ÓäÊí ÝÅáì Ãæáí ÇáÃãÑ ãäßã.
I u not going to trust our ulama so please find onother subject to post it as u do usualy. :D
Whome do u trust!!!! or u dont trust anyone.
Have the people of YAMEN trusted Muaadh ibn Jabal when he went as a messenger from The Messenger of Allah?????
ANSWER the question. ;)
i do not know the answer about yemen and Muaadh ibn Jabal.
listen you mention hadeeth above,let me tell u,i will give you Kitab Allah but will u give sonati(sonnat alrasool).i can tell my younger brother to give u kitab Allah but can u give him sonnat alrasool.
that is a point.come on now,tell me where is sonnat alrasool.where is it.you say there is sonnah right,where is it?

[abu Suleiman]

To all respected moderators and members,
For your information that Im not going to reply to YS in any subject that he posts.
Thank u all.

[Arabian Princess]

you joined my team Abu Suliman :)

[Enjoy Ur Death]

salam for all muslims
i really feel sorry for this unscientific unislamic way of discussion:(

1st i would like to remind u all that we all r muslims and our islam taught us not to be rude to each other especially when we r discussing amth related to ALLAH

2nd i totally agree with bimzoori in what she posted

3rd i am not with those who don't reply on YP cos if he is right they should accept it and if he is wrong then he should be shown the correct way and make all other members aware of his mistakes in order to protect a wrong idea to grow up in their minds

3rd i am totally against YP in his attempt to explain the holly Quran. my friend YP as i can recognise from ur posting u r studying or doing smth outside ur country + u r not studying "sharee3a" ... thus u r studying smth else, thus u believe in specialisation, thus u have to respect these specialsiation and finally it is of not ur business to explain the holly Quran becasue this is not a scientific theories it is a holly thing that people spend their whole lives to be able to say their opinion in its explaination and this is truth for all sects e.g. mofti in sunna, mofti or sheikh in abatha and mujtahid or muqala in she3a .... thus whenever u say smth about explaination of any single letter from the holly Quran then to be scientific u have to state from where did u read this explaination.

4th, u say that u don't listen to khamees and rashid for any thing and u just take ur orders from the holly QURAN ... this is smth great my frined and i encourage u :) , however, it is smth impossible and u r contraindicating ur self 100% :wink: ... the proof of that my dear frined is that u do pray for ALLAH , this simple and major think makes whatever u say in going only throught the holly Quran TOTALLY WRONG . as i can see u know more than i do about islam so lets me ask u how do u pray ? i am sure that u know that abtha, sunna and shei3a pray in different way , say different thing in their athan and pray at different times , rn't they??!! if u said yes and u still pray then on which way my dear frined ??!! i don't think that this way is written in the golly Quran thus u have taken it from ur khamees or rasheed, didn't u ? sorry for saying so

dear YP, u cannot say about people who r respected in other sects as khamees or rahed , u can say what ALLAH says but u can't make our islamic scietists look small , if u r sunni then i will ask u would u like any one to say so about shaf3i or maliki ? if u abathi then i would say do like to hear this on shaikh khalili ? if u r shee3i then don't u mind to listen this about sayed sistany or khumaini ??

for the ALLAH's sake be polit with each other, respect all sects and sicuss in scietific way ..

sorry if i hurt any one and sorry for making such a big post, i am tired too now from typing , sorry :)

[abu Suleiman]

Dear enjoy ur death,
What u have said we said to YS many times and I personally decided not to reply to him as I discovered that he deosnt have the spirit of mogadalah in a way that deosnt creat misunderstanding.
I think u will see this when u correspond with him.
Thanks and never mind about your long post.;)

[Enjoy Ur Death]

salam for all muslims

thanks abu suleiman for ur post and i hope u will never give it up in helping the truth to shine up

YP , sory if i was rude or asking u many things in my post but i want u to co0ol down 1st, think in islamic ways of discussion and then answer me please .. waiting for ur reply ...

abu Suleiman & arabian princess , please donn't stop replying on the posts of our member and wait with me to see what he thinks and says ...

thanks for all muslims ;)

[Arabian Princess]

Enjoy ur Death,
I have tried million of times to answer YS .. in many ways but I realised after some time that am going around the same circle which I hate so much.
I wouldnt mind answering him and any member even if they had totally differnt views than me .. I would be happy to change our point of view, but going around the same circle wouldnt benefit me or any other members which I dont like.

Welcome bro YS in a constructive discussion.

[yellow sapphire]

Arabian Princess
i am from the beginning telling you that i am using Quran and logic but you want to use Khamees and Rashid words.same i will repeat here Khamees and Rashid are not ma3soomeen so what ever they say it might be right and it might be wrong but do not insist it is right and do not insist it is wrong(if u do so that means you are following your father as if your father is rasool but be sure your father is not rasool).it will be right only if the 7 sects have agreed it is right.

[Enjoy Ur Death]

salam YP
i am still waiting for ur reply, please read my long posting and i am waiting for ur reply