View Full Version : Have we become ignorant?!?!
I came across this book, and I thought it interesting to share and see what comments you may have on this topic. I do recommend you all to read it if you have the time.
By Harun Yahya
Source: http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/character/character3.php
These are some excerpts:
In a society of ignorance, there is a silent, unnamed power that directs the people. From the moment he is born, a member of this society submits himself to this power, and orders his entire life according to its edicts. This power dominates this member of the society of ignorance, to such an extent that he does not depart from its laws, even though they go against his own desires and expectations; and, come what may, he remains loyal to it.
What is this power, then, to which the ignorant are so attached, and which commands them so absolutely?
As we have said, it does not have a name; it is the totality of the laws that the ignorant refer to as "tradition." It is not known who formulated these laws and determined whether or not they were valid. No one, however, would dare to question or alter them. Anyone who attempts to question these traditions is despised, and attempts are made to prevent any who are thought to be violating these laws or disrupting the established order.
Members of this society are firmly devoted to the rules they have adopted; if one wanted to tell them that these rules may be wrong, they would reply that they came down to them from previous generations and, therefore, cannot be abandoned. They do not dare to examine what they do, or why they do it, because their forebears did the same. The Qur'an describes this distorted point of view characteristic of a society of ignorance:
When they are told, "Follow what Allah has sent down to you," They say, "We are following what we found our fathers doing." What, even though their fathers did not understand a thing and were not guided! (Surat al-Baqara, 170)
So, in the same way, the "female character" is defined by the characteristics regarded as acceptable for women in the society. The society of ignorance has accepted a mode of behavior for women, and they are not permitted to venture beyond these parameters, and must develop their own personalities within it. However, the kind of behavior prescribed for women by an ignorant society is rife with corruptions.
Compared to this convoluted understanding of the society of ignorance, the way revealed by the Qur'an is simpler and far more straightforward. A Muslim does not make any distinction between the character of a man and that of a woman. Therefore, a woman is first of all a Muslim, and then a woman. Her identity is not determined by her sex, but according to the morality proclaimed in the Qur'an. The Qur'an describes only a one type of character. Man or woman, all are held responsible for aspiring to this character. Accordingly, a female believer, who is aware of this, develops fortitude, balance and superior character.
Indeed, the Qur'an is the unique source that all people, regardless of their gender, should refer to, as our Prophet (saas) also indicated in his following tradition:
"The Qur'an is a strong rope of Allah, meaning that it is a reliable means of linking with Allah and a firm charter of guidance. It is the straight path. The Qur'an is the clear truth that keep thoughts from straying." (Tirmidhi)
It goes on to explain the characters of the members of the society of ignorance - of which 99% of us are :inno: thus I suggest to read it to know how we can be classified as ignorants. It's the only way to start changing our mindset; by recognizing it first.
Qs: Do you agree that tradition now has controlled our ways of life, instead of religion?
Provide examples in our daily lives that shows how tradition has taken the upper hand
How do you think we can try to reduce the impact of tradition, and incorporate religion instead in our daily lives?
Share your views on this topic
Sounds like a really intresting read. Thanks for sharing Cherry.
Yes, I do agree that tradition has overtaken our way of lives. If a certain person chooses to do something out of the norm, even though it is islamically acceptable then they may risk being outcasted by their own family. The only way I can think of is to read the Quran with UNDERSTANDING and also to follow the previous prophet's lives. I recently watched a show about the (2a2ema el arba3a) (the four imams) and was suprised to find out that Abu haneefa was once taught at the hand of a woman in Baghdad. Somehow, through times, women were reduced to being regarded as a lesser being. It's changing now, hamdullah, but there are still some men who regard having women as a higher authority in their life to be wrong, as per the tradition of a woman's place being at home all concealed and covered up.
^^ Anytime Pen it black, that's interesting information there... never knew that:)
Let me add some excerpts about men too - its both who are victims to society.
The foremost quality of a man, as far as they are concerned, is that he be of strong character and superior to women. These expectations lead of course to a stronger personality in a man than a woman. Other factors in the society help to support this notion of male superiority. Women often acquiesce to this perception. In such a society, there is none superior to the male. This creates the idea that male self-sufficiency is absolute. For this reason, men are generally not open to suggestions and criticism from anyone else, particularly women.
In addition, every man feels he must conform to what the society expects of him, and so expends every effort not to depart from the mould he has been put into. In a society of ignorance, it is considered very humiliating for a man not to be able to do what is expected of him. He is expected to be strong and brave, from his childhood into old age, and may not show the slightest weakness, submission or anything else that does not accord with the male character. So, he is bound not to let his weakness be seen, even when he is sick or suffering for whatever reason. Because showing weakness is regarded as a feminine quality in a society of ignorance, it is not fitting for a man to appear helpless.
^^^ calling Squinty on this!
Just in case anyone is interested in some background on the author:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar
Cherry: and I guess that's the reason why many men have a hard time dealing with women being a higher authority in their lives :p (boss for example, not talking about husband and wife where both should be equal in making a decision together, and which is another thing altogether).
LOL - definately! They just can't take it at times! Some men can, others can't. They'd rather move jobs than be under a woman! :rolleyes:
I don't blame them though... at times its not only the fathers who've raised them that way, the mothers too encourage it and unless people start thinking differently - which is happening slowly- nothing would change.
Black Lolly
03-07-09, 12:25 AM
Maybe just some of us ..a little bit..
PS: Din't really read the thread.. too long..
^^^ you would change your comment if you do read it
melnotts
03-07-09, 02:24 AM
This is quite interesting and very wide topic. I wish if it was broken into sub-topics. Anyway, here is my response to your questions.
Qs: Do you agree that tradition now has controlled our ways of life, instead of religion?
Provide examples in our daily lives that shows how tradition has taken the upper hand
yes, to the extent that we can’t even differentiate between traditions and religion. Indeed, some traditions are considered “holier” than the Islamic values.
- Abaya, is it traditional or is it Islamic?
- Hijab, some say that it was enforced on free women to distinct them from the "slaves".
-خمار Khumar, has many different definitions; some argues it is the covering of the whole head including the face while others say the head without the face would suffice, others say it is the piece of clothes that covers the sexual parts of women.
- (اختاروا لنطفكم فان النطف دساس( some people use this Hadith as evidence to discriminate against other tribes and races.
Part of the problem, I think, is that through the time people were not willing to give up their traditions in favour for religion, so it was gradually viewed as as Islamic.Besides, we know that some Arabic terminologies are changing with time, as a result the interpretation of Quran might be affected which generates pluralistic opinions some of which are based on the scholar’s individual background.
How do you think we can try to reduce the impact of tradition, and incorporate religion instead in our daily lives?
- Well, it is ignorance, right? So the only way to combat ignorance is through knowledge. We need to empower people with education. There is a need for vast investment in education particularly related to social sciences and philosophy. People need to THINK and develop skills to argue and back up their arguments with evidence. There is a need to allow for debates to take places in universities, colleges and in the media. Then, people can listen to differing views and can make up their own judgements.
^ one of the most intresting ideas I came across is that it is not islamically wrong to be different from the rest. That in fact it is human and encouraged for us to differ on topics because it means that we are infact using our brains and pouring our souls into the topic. Although in7raf (really getting off track) is to be avoided, coz Islam does have foundations we all agree upon.
We need to learn how to talk to each other, and debate without having the idea that (it is I, and only I, that is correct and all the rest are wrong).
melnotts
03-07-09, 03:31 AM
^^^Good on you:)
But unfortunately, there are scholars who are not able to grasp that concept of pluralistic opinions. I know a friend who was studying in one of the Islamic institutions in Oman who was forced to repent because he innocently asked his lecturer the question "why women inherit half of what men inherit?''. Debates and discussions are not encouraged in many of our educational institutions. Scholars have the first and final say in our daily life and we common people are not allowed to express our own views. I am not generalizing here but that happens quite a lot.
I think we are drifting away from the main topic as it is about traditions vs religion not Islam per se, unless you people see it otherwise.
Diabian
03-07-09, 05:42 AM
Not ignorant... but more of selfish-selectist ( is that even a term or did I just make it up :D).
I mean, you have examples of members around here.. you'll see few how will engage in arguements and discussions with regard to Islam.. and in another topic, the same person is discussing music, hot chicks/guys..etc!
And to be honest, I dont see a problem with that.. because at least they tried.. as far as they don't go picking on people who do things that are considered to be wrong by them?!
This has extended to cover all aspects not just women issues... and frankly, some women are the reason for any mistreatment... they are asking for too much, and giving back so little!
For example, many girls asked for equality in jobs.. they got that in Oman. But it is still "common" (not always) to see a family in which both parents are working, yet only the man is the source of income to cover household expenses!
Women asked for lands.. they got it.. yet the man is still having to pay for wedding expenses, dowry and all that $hit!
Let us be honest... am talking about Oman.. Omani men are 3rd grade citizens.. for 1st are women, 2nd indian men, 3rd omani men :D
Diabian, lets not talk about what members do, or individuals. I'm more interested in the way we live our lives.
You are right though about women getting more liberation nowadays, but in return, they need to also compromise. Be a bit humane actually!
For example: I heard recently that a wedding (the feast) is meant to actually feed the poor! I didn't know that...
This is quite interesting and very wide topic. I wish if it was broken into sub-topics. Anyway, here is my response to your questions.
I know, it is a huge topic. There are many ways to discuss it too. But my main point of this thread is to get people aware of what we are doing, and how we ARE actually becoming an ignorant society. Or should I say we have already become an ignorant society.
- (اختاروا لنطفكم فان النطف دساس( some people use this Hadith as evidence to discriminate against other tribes and races.
Never heard of this hadeeth before..
- Well, it is ignorance, right? So the only way to combat ignorance is through knowledge. We need to empower people with education. There is a need for vast investment in education particularly related to social sciences and philosophy. People need to THINK and develop skills to argue and back up their arguments with evidence. There is a need to allow for debates to take places in universities, colleges and in the media. Then, people can listen to differing views and can make up their own judgements.
I think that's a great idea.:yes:
I also think at home, Islamic issues should be debated among family members, it would at least try to change the mindset of parents and siblings, make them question their traditions and the reasons behind it. Backing it up with religious evidence of course.
^^^Good on you:)
But unfortunately, there are scholars who are not able to grasp that concept of pluralistic opinions. I know a friend who was studying in one of the Islamic institutions in Oman who was forced to repent because he innocently asked his lecturer the question "why women inherit half of what men inherit?''. Debates and discussions are not encouraged in many of our educational institutions. Scholars have the first and final say in our daily life and we common people are not allowed to express our own views. I am not generalizing here but that happens quite a lot.
I think we are drifting away from the main topic as it is about traditions vs religion not Islam per se, unless you people see it otherwise.
I'm suprised... :(
^^^Good on you:)
But unfortunately, there are scholars who are not able to grasp that concept of pluralistic opinions. I know a friend who was studying in one of the Islamic institutions in Oman who was forced to repent because he innocently asked his lecturer the question "why women inherit half of what men inherit?''. Debates and discussions are not encouraged in many of our educational institutions. Scholars have the first and final say in our daily life and we common people are not allowed to express our own views. I am not generalizing here but that happens quite a lot.
I think we are drifting away from the main topic as it is about traditions vs religion not Islam per se, unless you people see it otherwise.
It only means the person he asked didn't know the answer, any questions asked no matter how strange to a believer they might seem can be answered, and debated too. Men have families to take care of, they'll be taking the lead after the parents did. The best scholars are know for loving to debate and knowing how to convince the other part of their view, especially to those who have many question they need to be answered, otherwise questions might remain and add up... suddenly the person doesn't want to be a Muslim anymore.
My sister once asked her teacher "Why do handicap exist?" The teacher somehow know my aunt and told her that she believed my sister is "Mul7da".. disbeliever?! How do you expect someone to understand religion without asking?!
"Whoever seeks a path in search of knowledge, Allah would make easy for him a path leading to Jannah (paradise)." (Abu Dawud)
Is one who worships devoutly during the hour of the night prostrating himself or standing (in adoration), who takes heed of the Hereafter, and who places his hope in the Mercy of his Lord - (like one who does not)? Say: "Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition.(39:9)
A nice thread after some time. Well done Cherry.
Well, I agree with most of Harun Yahya's view points. Unfortunately, I feel 99% of the people move with the flow. It is so easy to mass control minds of people using media today. As for culture, of course.
Islam many times is used as a way to meet political or social gains. Speaking of examples, in Oman we find marriages becoming so expensive and overrated. When you analyze, only 1% goes with Islamic guidelines.
- Well, it is ignorance, right? So the only way to combat ignorance is through knowledge. We need to empower people with education. There is a need for vast investment in education particularly related to social sciences and philosophy. People need to THINK and develop skills to argue and back up their arguments with evidence. There is a need to allow for debates to take places in universities, colleges and in the media. Then, people can listen to differing views and can make up their own judgements.
Education is the key. But sadly, even in countries like US and UK, most people have knowledge of professions but no knowledge of being a free thinker.
True knowledge, in my view, is not reading and understanding sciences and issues, it is the ability to learn and create knowledge.
If a person is not a free thinker, than his knowledge means very little.
melnotts
03-07-09, 04:52 PM
Education is the key. But sadly, even in countries like US and UK, most people have knowledge of professions but no knowledge of being a free thinker.
I would rather not drag the UK or US into this please, otherwise the thread will end up in a mess. I disagree with you though. At least they have the freedom to THINK, unlike us.
True knowledge, in my view, is not reading and understanding sciences and issues, it is the ability to learn and create knowledge.
That's good point,
But how would you come to CREATE knowledge if you don't read and understand in the first place?
If a person is not a free thinker, than his knowledge means very little.
"Freedom" in thoughts requires FREEDOM in EXPRESSION, which we don't, unfortunately, have.
FAITH86
03-07-09, 05:36 PM
I have to agree that Traditions and backward society thinking both have overtaken other factors like common sense and above all, religion.
Examples:
. Wearing a head scarf becomes more of a tradition than religious commitment.
. Following sects blindly without given it a thought, just cause one was born in a family that follows a certain sect since decades ago..
Many other examples. But then again, I have a strong faith that we can make the change real and start from ourselves. We're living in an open world, the various sources of knowledge are available...we don't lack anything but a strong well and a free mind
FAITH86
03-07-09, 05:37 PM
Great thread btw. Keep it up, Cherry! :)
It's very true, people have become so robotic and blindly follow traditions without really thinking about their source and how they were generated, they believe in them so much that it is often mistaken with religion even. The Burqa and Abaya are just a few examples of how tradition has overtaken religion, if a girl goes out without the abaya despite being covered from head to toe and dressed in an Islamic way, they she will be condemned and criticized for it. It's really sad.
A nice thread after some time. Well done Cherry.
Well, I agree with most of Harun Yahya's view points. Unfortunately, I feel 99% of the people move with the flow. It is so easy to mass control minds of people using media today. As for culture, of course.
Islam many times is used as a way to meet political or social gains. Speaking of examples, in Oman we find marriages becoming so expensive and overrated. When you analyze, only 1% goes with Islamic guidelines.
I agree, this is the case with nearly everyone around us, actually instead of it being a blessed function, much sin is being committed - from the israf done to backbiting about guests, the bride & groom etc. So I wonder, am I saving myself from sin if I don't even have such society based weddings?!?
True knowledge, in my view, is not reading and understanding sciences and issues, it is the ability to learn and create knowledge.
If a person is not a free thinker, than his knowledge means very little.
Interesting and quite true.
We are a much more educated society today than ever. Sadly, we are still ignorant. How is that possible? :yell:
"Freedom" in thoughts requires FREEDOM in EXPRESSION, which we don't, unfortunately, have.
Very true melnotts, it's actually what we need to want any change to happen around us.
I have to agree that Traditions and backward society thinking both have overtaken other factors like common sense and above all, religion.
Examples:
. Wearing a head scarf becomes more of a tradition than religious commitment.
. Following sects blindly without given it a thought, just cause one was born in a family that follows a certain sect since decades ago..
Many other examples. But then again, I have a strong faith that we can make the change real and start from ourselves. We're living in an open world, the various sources of knowledge are available...we don't lack anything but a strong well and a free mind
I think so too.. Thanks for sharing your views :)
A lot of people are against other sects, just because they don't believe in the same thing - do they even know what their sect is about? Most of them have no idea.
Knowledge is there.. but as said by other members here we need to:
1. Seek knowledge
2. Be a Free thinker
3. Express/share knowledge
4. Apply it
I think it should work that way- in no particular order!
Can we try and list out what needs to be distinguished between tradition and religion?
I'll just put in what members have already mentioned
1. Woman is not lesser than a man.
2. Rigid perceptions on what a man is in society
3. Abaya/hijab/burqa issue (dress code)
4. Race/tribe discrimination
5. To question our religion
6. Wedding expenses
7. Dowry
8. Sect issues
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