View Full Version : What is the story of prophet Mohammed?
zhangmelan
08-04-09, 07:48 PM
Hi guys,
I've been talking to a few friends who are Sunni Muslims to get an understanding of what they think of our prophet.
Basically what I got from them is this....which I found very hard to beleive.
I'm going to try cut the story as short as possible.
They say that Mohammed PBUH was born as a normal person (not knowing that he is a prophet) and that he made mistakes of a normal human being before his 'discovery of being a prophet'.
They went on to say that one day he was praying or meditating and that he heard the voice of Gabriel say "Ikra", he was then very scared and shaken, he ran back home to his wife in shock (how can you say this about our prophet!) and then she told him to see a friend of hers who told him he was a prophet !? They went on to say that he gathered his family and was so 'scared of embarassing himself' as they might not beleive him... and told them that he was the prophet.
I find this just shocking, and my mind can't think that the final and most important prophet of them all would not even know he is a prophet when he is born? or would be scared!? or would need some one to tell him he is a prophet!?
I don't want to create hate, I just want to know if this is true. The story of Mohammed is much different from my teachings (Shi3ee).
We beleive that Mohammed was always a prophet, the day he was born, the life he lived before hearing the voice of Gabriel, he knew God and that he was just waiting for Allah to give him the message to say "Go ahead" (recite to the people). The prophet then went to a friend of his wife, a Christian person who was waiting for Mohammed (this is the person that they said told him that he is a prophet).
That's just the cut down version of course, I would really like to hear what you guys have to say about this... remember we are talking about the last prophet, the Imam and the most important person who stepped on earth!
Why dont you read from well known scholars? It doesn't matter whether they are Sunni or Shia. What matters is that they are Muslims, like our beloved Prophet
I think this guy thinks these issues are important.
Most Muslims I have met say that the only important thing is to be a Muslim and Sunnis, Shias, etc. are all Muslims.
But I have met and read from both Shia and Sunni who say that the other guys have teachings that make them not Muslim at all or at least seriously defective Muslims.
zhangmelan
08-04-09, 08:14 PM
At the end the story doesn't effect us in anyway, it's just interesting finding out what one thinks or how he acquired the information. My main point was to find out if what my friend's were saying is true or was it just something they were exadurating.
Of course I would love your words to be true Jeff but, unfortunately these days being a Sunni in one place or a Shia in another can strip you out of rights, not everyone is open-minded like some of the people on these forums
marianna
08-04-09, 08:16 PM
It's a good honest question and for non-muslims like myself would be interesting to see what the Ibadhis feel on this subject since it is the primary sect in Oman.
zhangmelan
08-04-09, 08:31 PM
Just to remind others, I'm not trying to start a argument on who is right and who is wrong but, would like to know the story in which you beleive. I think these discussions help to resolve a lot of misunderstandings between people.
Like what I have mentioned in the start of the topic, I find the story hard to beleive. I know there is more to it, so if I don't know that 'more to it' then it becomes difficult to absorb it :)
Just to remind others, I'm not trying to start a argument on who is right and who is wrong but, would like to know the story in which you beleive. I think these discussions help to resolve a lot of misunderstandings between people.
Like what I have mentioned in the start of the topic, I find the story hard to beleive. I know there is more to it, so if I don't know that 'more to it' then it becomes difficult to absorb it :)
I'm not a Muslim and I don't want to start an argument either. I think discussions where people listen to each other are the best way to talk about religion, even if you are convinced you are right.
But can I ask you: What is the source for the Shia story? Can it be found in some authority that Shia accept? Like some hadith or some sira or something?
Or are there authoritative religious teachers or at least scholars, maybe online in English, who say this?
The reason I ask is that the story you present as the "Sunni" one is the one I've always read everywhere, from Muslim and non-Muslim sources.
They went on to say that one day he was praying or meditating and that he heard the voice of Gabriel say "Ikra", he was then very scared and shaken, he ran back home to his wife in shock (how can you say this about our prophet!)
Aren't there two suras in the Quran related to that event?
zhangmelan
08-04-09, 08:59 PM
To be honest, I don't know any online sources which I can get the full story from, but I can assure you it is different from the ones you get in the standard books in schools, etc.
As for what what Icetea said. In the Qu'ran it does indeed mention the sound of "Ikra" being repeated to him by Gabriel but, it does not say he was scared, shaken or ran home / unsure of his prophethood.
I will try find some sources of the Shia story online.
Peace
Check the following two websites:
http://muhammad.net/
They say that Mohammed PBUH was born as a normal person (not knowing that he is a prophet) and that he made mistakes of a normal human being before his 'discovery of being a prophet'.
They went on to say that one day he was praying or meditating and that he heard the voice of Gabriel say "Ikra", he was then very scared and shaken, he ran back home to his wife in shock (how can you say this about our prophet!) and then she told him to see a friend of hers who told him he was a prophet !? They went on to say that he gathered his family and was so 'scared of embarassing himself' as they might not beleive him... and told them that he was the prophet.
OK, basically what you mentioned is what happened. You can find this in Quran, and many biographies of the prophet.
He was born normal and he lived among his family, when he told them of Islam, at the age of 40, they turned against him.
I dont know why you are shocked, this is basic information which most 4 year olds learn.
Sporty4life
08-04-09, 10:05 PM
We beleive that Mohammed was always a prophet, the day he was born, the life he lived before hearing the voice of Gabriel, he knew God and that he was just waiting for Allah to give him the message to say "Go ahead" (recite to the people). The prophet then went to a friend of his wife, a Christian person who was waiting for Mohammed (this is the person that they said told him that he is a prophet).
in your faces, people-who-want-shiaism-and-sunnism-united:hyper:, just one of the many differences stated by a shi3ee person himself.:duh:
Just because these Sunni Muslims believe in this story it doesn't mean that all the Sunni Muslims will agree.
What difference does it make anyways if he/they was Sunni or Ibadhi or whatever?
We all believe in the Qur'an and follow one religion, which is Islam. And frankly, Islam teaches us that people are as equal as the teeth of a comb.
We beleive that Mohammed was always a prophet, the day he was born, the life he lived before hearing the voice of Gabriel, he knew God and that he was just waiting for Allah to give him the message to say "Go ahead" (recite to the people). The prophet then went to a friend of his wife, a Christian person who was waiting for Mohammed (this is the person that they said told him that he is a prophet).
To God, he was always a prophet even before he was born. The proof is there bec his name is mentioned in the previous holy books.
The man you are talking about is Waraqah bin Naufal, a relative of his first wife Sayyidah Khadija.
So you see, it all depends on your perception, it all comes from the same source.
As I was telling my good Catholic friend Jeff, all major religions stem from the same source
MorphaKnight
08-04-09, 10:15 PM
hmmm well i did hear of that story and im inclined to agree with it (although im not sure about the "gathering his family" part) I mean the prophecy was only shown when he was 40 years old.. Wouldn't you be shocked or scared if you're up meditating and hearing a voice out of nowhere AND tell you that you carry a huge message which is of utmost importance and to spread it to the people?
I'm not going to argue with you about your teachings & understandings, but I just want to note down that your friend's version of the story is the same version of the story that is being taught in Omani schools. And that's the version of the story I know since I was young, whether from school, parents, or Islamic books. I have never come across an Islamic book saying otherwise.
(although im not sure about the "gathering his family" part)
When he first became prophet, he was spreading Islam secretly.
He was later on ordered to spread it openly, thats when he gathered his family and publicly announced Islam. And thats when a lot of his family members made him an enemy
DarK PrincesS
08-04-09, 10:22 PM
lol this is hilarious..
Whatever the story was,it's not any of our concern as far as i know..
zhangmelan
08-04-09, 10:34 PM
Thanks for all the replies guys and yeah, it really doesn't matter which story we go by, because at the end we all show the same respect to our prophet.
It's just some parts didn't sound right, so was just making sure! Thanks once again.
Remember that Rasuluna Mohammed PBUH is human.
zhangmelan
09-04-09, 12:49 AM
Yes indeed his human, the part which we tend to highlight is that when he said "I'm just like you" we think by that he simply means that he is a Human, not something else, he needs to eat and drink just like us.
But no argument needed, he makes no mistakes in any situation.
He makes no mistakes?
He does! That what makes him a human being, that what makes him the greatest human being ever.
How could he be the greatest if he 'was guided by God' or 'divine'? Because that way things won't by his own efforts will it?
Sorat Abbasa explains a simple mistake He made in the beginning of the revelations. He got the revelations from God, correct. He was directed by God, correct, but he was a man who makes mistakes, no sins, but mistakes.
zhangmelan
09-04-09, 01:17 AM
Thanks for the replies once again. Just from reading these replies I have learned a lot of stuff that I had no idea about and its great to know more!
For those interested, Shias beleive that...
Mohammed was ma3soom which means that he makes no mistakes, under any situation, he had no desires in life, his only goal was to spread Islam, meaning he did not care for money, woman or any of the stuff regular humans care about.
Jesus was human, yet he knew he was a prophet when he was born, and spoke as a new born baby. This is for people who say how can a baby know he is a prophet?
I want to say this without sounding like I'm attacking any one's beleifs but its quiet hard, so please do not let it offend you.. but it is made clear in the Qu'ran that Mohammed PBUH was the most important prophet in every way, yet people seem to say he makes "few mistakes" or some stuff which I think are haram to say but are relating with woman, and human desires.
Please before you post a reply, keep in mind, I just want to understand your views and I'm not in the ring with you
Mohammed was ma3soom which means that he makes no mistakes,
So whats your view on the following:
(The Prophet) frowned and turned away[80:1]
Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting).[80:2]
But what could tell thee but that perchance he might grow (in spiritual understanding)?[80:3]
Or that he might receive admonition, and the teaching might profit him?[80:4]
Haroundb
09-04-09, 08:32 AM
I believe that Shieaa took some extra elevation from the Christian methodology. Like Jesus was a prohpet, they made him God. Same thing, an extra level of elevation do push things away from the right direction. And to backup this idea, I believe that Prophet Jesus PBUH is the one who was born a prophet (he himself said that when he was a baby) at least to humans. So since his childhood he was a prophet with no doubt, but not prophet Mohammed PBUH. Prophet Mohammed was born a pure person who had acquired the virtues of the top level. He got the message, and it was to guide people. He was 40 I think when The Holy Spirit vitited him in the cave of Hiraa in Micca.
So how we get the information? From what Prophet Mohammed himself narrated, and from the followers who were around him since the day he was born. They knew him by hard, he was brought up in front of their eyes. So getting scared from The Holy Spirit doesn't indicate a weakness. But if he wasn't afraid from the looks of the Holy Angle, then I think he wouldn't be a human! God wanted prophet Mohammed to be a human, a messenger to humans, and humans get to be afraid that is the nature God put in them.
Now talking about mistakes, it not the same. For example in the sura of Abasa (He Frowned!). Prophet Mohammed frowned at the man not because of his blindness but he was concentrating with the tribe which came asking about Islam. Prophet Mohammed wanted the tribe (as a big number of people) to Join Islam. So this is not a mistake if we are talking about mistakes. Prophet Mohammed wanted the bigger profit to Islam.
Prophet Mohammed is a human being.
Sporty4life
09-04-09, 02:34 PM
^true that..
zhangmelan
09-04-09, 03:01 PM
This is what I think from my own point of view, I havn't been told this / read it anywhere.
I think it makes no difference if we say our prophet was perfect and made not the smallest mistake, but I think it makes a bigger difference if we say he did.. why?
Because, people will use this for their own benefit.
For example the prophet could have said something when he wasn't 'in a good mood' (although we never think that of course) and he might of said something very important, yet people say, ohh he was mistaken (he wasn't thinking at full capacity) we can tell by doing this we are more right then him.
And this is when everything goes pear-shaped.
By saying his perfect, we beleive in EVERY word he says, in every action he takes, in every descsion he makes! and we never say he was not thinking straight at the time, or ANYTHING of that sort. If any one is interested, I can give you some good examples, but I don't want to post them here as I'm sure it would make people uncoformtable
And for that person who said our prophet frowned when the blind man came.
If you can pick up the closest Qu'ran next to you, then read, it does NOT mention the prophet done that, it was talking about some one else... just see if it makes sense to you before you say it out :)
zhangmelan
09-04-09, 04:01 PM
So whats your view on the following:
(The Prophet) frowned and turned away[80:1]
Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting).[80:2]
But what could tell thee but that perchance he might grow (in spiritual understanding)?[80:3]
Or that he might receive admonition, and the teaching might profit him?[80:4]
If you can read Arabic, then read the Qu'ran and not these translations, and then see for your self, it no were says that it was (The prophet) and thats why people put the brackets, assuming it was.. just think about it WHY WHY would they want to do this to the prophet, why and WHY ?
If the prophet was reciting the Qu'ran to the people (because this is a passage from the Qu'ran not a hadith) and said "He frowned" when the blind man came to him, why would people assume that the prophet frowned? The prophet did not say "I" frowned or "Mohammed" frowned. Please read the whole su'rah and see what message it's trying to bring to you, it has NOTHING to do with Mohammed, it's JUST about the blind man.
Twinkle
09-04-09, 04:33 PM
I find this just shocking, and my mind can't think that the final and most important prophet of them all would not even know he is a prophet when he is born? or would be scared!? or would need some one to tell him he is a prophet!?
We’ve been taught in school the way your sunni friends narrated to you (minus the feeling embarrassed part). He was shaken and troubled.
After that first encounter with Gabriel revelation stopped for a period and this filled our prophet with self-doubt
he was not exempt from having such feelings..
because no other word from Allah (swt) came for some time, our prophet thought that our Lord was not pleased with him and abandoned him or that even that he might have just been possessed.
apparitions of Gabriel appeared to reassure him
but on one occasion, on his way to home he heard a sound and looked up to find Gabriel sitting between the earth and sky, it frightened him, he went back home to Khadija (may Allah be pleased with her) and asked her to cover him, so she cloaked him. That’s when the first verses of surat Al-Mudaththir (The Cloaked One) were revealed to him: “You that are wrapped up in your cloak, arise and give warning. Glorify your Lord, Purify your garments and keep away from all abominations. Bestow no favours expecting gain. Be patient for your Lord’s sake”.
This is from a hadith narrated by Aisha and authenticated by Al-Bukhari and Muslim.
It’s in Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah.
I never came across a different version..
you can look also at surat Adh-Dhu7a
which was revealed around the same time
it was to reassure him of his doubts that Allah (swt) was displeased with him.
“By the light of day, and by the dark of night, your Lord has not forsaken you, nor does He abhor you. And the Hereafter will be better than what came before. And you shall be gratified with what your Lord will give you.”
zhangmelan
09-04-09, 04:36 PM
Thanks Twinkle, thats what I was looking for.
If you can read Arabic, then read the Qu'ran and not these translations, and then see for your self, it no were says that it was (The prophet) and thats why people put the brackets, assuming it was.. just think about it WHY WHY would they want to do this to the prophet, why and WHY ?
If the prophet was reciting the Qu'ran to the people (because this is a passage from the Qu'ran not a hadith) and said "He frowned" when the blind man came to him, why would people assume that the prophet frowned? The prophet did not say "I" frowned or "Mohammed" frowned. Please read the whole su'rah and see what message it's trying to bring to you, it has NOTHING to do with Mohammed, it's JUST about the blind man.
I read it in arabic and word 'abasa' (frowned) refers to Prophet Mohammed PBUH.
Also the first verses of suras 73 and 74 refers to the Prophet PBUH:
Surah 73. The Enshrouded One, Bundled Up
1. O thou folded in garments!
2. Stand (to prayer) by night, but not all night,-
3. Half of it,- or a little less,
4. Or a little more; and recite the Qur'an in slow, measured rhythmic tones.
5. Soon shall We send down to thee a weighty Message.
==========
Surah 74. The Cloaked One, The Man Wearing A Cloak
1. O thou wrapped up (in the mantle)!
2. Arise and deliver thy warning!
3. And thy Lord do thou magnify!
4. And thy garments keep free from stain!
5. And all abomination shun!
6. Nor expect, in giving, any increase (for thyself)!
7. But, for thy Lord's (Cause), be patient and constant!
zhangmelan
09-04-09, 05:15 PM
Yea, "Abasa" means frowned it doesn't mean "The prophet frowned", if it refers to the prophet it would be made clear. If you keep reading the surah to the end you will see it has nothing to do with the prophets behaviour towards that man, it's simply a story about "A" man who frowned just because the man was blind. As many other stories in the qu'ran which mention people as "he" or "the" it doesn't always mean that the prophet is the he or the does it?
But some people out there obviously want to make it sound as if the prophet makes mistakes, and so you can see how they benefit from them. People who try to copy the lifestyle of Mohammed PBUH by doing many things like growing a beard, etc, why do they do this? because he is perfect..and if you want to be closer to God you will try your best although you will never reach the stage of Mohammed PBUH. Now to go ahead and say he makes mistakes seems like an exuse to doubt some of the stuff he says, e.g. making something haram because it makes no sense to you, although it wasn't haram.
Note: in the Qu'ran many stories refer to individuals as "he" or "the", this means it's just trying to put a message across, and the people involved have NOTHING to do with it. If the story is about Mohammed or any other prophet, beleive me it's made clear for any one
For example in the sura of Abasa (He Frowned!). Prophet Mohammed frowned at the man not because of his blindness but he was concentrating with the tribe which came asking about Islam.
Are we referring to the same copy of Quran?
Yea, "Abasa" means frowned it doesn't mean "The prophet frowned", if it refers to the prophet it would be made clear
I can tell that you are not here to make arguments, as you stated in your first post
I can tell that you are not here to make arguments, as you stated in your first post
Is there a way to discuss differences among Muslims without arguing?
Is there a way to discuss differences among Muslims without arguing?
Yes Jeff, among Muslim Scholars. But I dont see anyone arguing here. Mr Zhang poses some genuine questions.
Check this link for the tafseer of surat "abasa".
Tafseer (http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=80&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2)
Off topics were deleted, keep this discussion within the topic please!
zhangmelan
01-05-09, 01:25 AM
I think some people misunderstood what I meant by "perfect".
He makes no SIN, even of the smallest. Everything he says is not from the air, it's from Allah.
I'm not saying he can tell you which route is the quickest to get you some food, but he will make no mistakes, such as descriminating some one or ANYTHING of that sort. I just find it amazing some people think he frowned at a blind man. AND even if he wanted to find you the quickest route, the prophet can ask God to do some things which may seem like miracles (like lifting the tree out of its roots).
It may seem like not such a big deal to you, but if the prophet does this then that means he makes mistakes, which means that not all his words are true. Let's leave the Qu'ran aside and go to other events. If he said follow this person after I pass away, do you have the right to say he was mistaken or is he never mistaken?
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