Is The Hijab a Must for Women?

[Rock Devil]

Hijab or ħijāb (حجاب, pronounced: [ħi.ˈdʒæːb]) is the Arabic term for "cover" (noun), based on the root حجب meaning "to veil, to cover (verb), to screen, to shelter".

More here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab).

Is the Hijab a must for ladies, Muslim ladies?

[Fast_HacKinG]

^AFAIK, covering the hair is a must !!

You see, I'm not the very religious person here, ask mu6awa3 Braiki or IceTea. :rolleyes:

[Amjad]

In Islam women are only required to cover their hair, but not their full face. By hijab or veil do you mean covering the whole face? If yes, then no, it's not a must for women. Covering the hair is, though.

[Rock Devil]

As far as I know, nothing about covering hair got mentioned in the Holy Quran.

[Amjad]

As far as I know, nothing about covering hair got mentioned in the Holy Quran.

“And tell the believing women to lower their eyes, and guard their modesty, and that they display not their ornaments except what appears of them. And that they draw their scarves (khumurihinna) over their bosoms…” (An-Nur: 31)

The word used in this context is khumur which has been variously translated as veils or scarves; the latter is more precise for it is the plural of khimar, which has been defined as “a woman’s head covering; a piece of cloth with which a woman covers her head.” (See Ibn Manzur, Lisan al-`Arab.) Imam Raghib al-Isfahani in his famous work, Mufradat alfadh al-Qur’an defines the terms by saying, “The root meaning of the word is to cover, and the khimar, therefore, is the cover or veil, but it has become synonymous with veil with which a woman covers her head (i.e., headscarf); the plural of the word is khumur (as used in the Qur’an: An-Nur: 31).” Because, according to the Arabic usage, covering the head is the most important function of khimar, no scholar in the past that we know of has ever disputed the fact that women are commanded by Allah to cover their heads; they only argued whether the face and hands are also included in the above order. The majority of scholars are of the opinion that they are allowed to uncover their faces and hands.

Source (http://www.apnicommunity.com/islam/40583-evidence-quran-covering-womens-hair.html)

[FAITH86]

Says who there ain't a verse in Quran about Hijab?


*{And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons...}* (An-Nur 24:31).

[Arabian Princess]

Rock Devil, that argumant is weak and doesnt have a basis. Hijab was mentioned in ahadith plus, in prayer a woman need to cover her hair. We dont have a special attaire for prayer!

[FAITH86]

Some useful link (http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=95989) for you

So yeah, Hijab is a must, not a choice my friend

[Jeff]

Not all Muslim scholars agree.

Those who disagree point out that the verse Amjad cites points to the necessity of covering the bosom, not the hair. You can read it like this without doing violence to the words, "You cover your hair because you know you must; cover your bosoms as well."

In that case, the meaning would be "Cover your hair and cover your bosoms as well."

Or you can read it like this without doing violence to the words, "You have veils which are commonly used to cover your hair, draw them over your bosoms which are the things that really need covering."

In that case, the meaning would be, "Make sure to cover your bosoms".

Those who argue that hijab for the hair is NOT mandatory also point out that the single hadith most often cited in support is WEAK.

They would say: One highly ambiguous passage from the Quran plus one weak Hadith cannot make a standard for Muslims.

The strongest argument of those who say hijab is mandatory is: NUMBERS.

The great majority of Muslim scholars say this, so great a majority--arguably--as to form a consensus. And they are backed by the very strong feelings of most Muslims.

[FAITH86]

^ What I know is that there is no disagreement "i5telaf" amongst the muslim scholars when it comes to Hijab and whether it's a must or not.

But it'd be really nice if you name those scholars, Jeff?

[Shy]

It takes the honesty of a child to point out this obvious fact, just like in The Emperor's New Clothes.


As far as I know, nothing about covering hair got mentioned in the Holy Quran.

[Tiny Heart]

I'm just "surprised' when "such questions" come out from Arab Muslim girls... !!!

Havent U been taught @ school in the Islamic classes? or Havent U perents teach U that when U reached puberty?


----------------

LoLz, I just found out that Rock Devil is actualy a Boy :p

[Jeff]

^ What I know is that there is no disagreement "i5telaf" amongst the muslim scholars when it comes to Hijab and whether it's a must or not.

But it'd be really nice if you name those scholars, Jeff?

Javed Ghamidi and Leila Ahmed for example.

And I remember one conversation with Sophis in which she was quoting a scholar to me: Khaled Abu Fadl.

And I quoted him back to her:

"The question of women’s hijab (headscarf and modest dress) is a settled issue with almost all Muslims agreeing that it is mandatory. Fadl disagrees. He claims that it is an issue that is still open to debate."

http://www.islamonline.net/english/ArtCulture/2002/09/article07.shtml

But don't get me wrong: I'm not opposed to hijab.

I think it's a lovely thing which helps a lot with the virtue of modesty. In fact, I even put up a thread about Veiling in Christianity:

http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50361&highlight=Veiling+Christianity

It's not my fight: I am not a Muslim and Muslims should decide for themselves what they must believe and not listen too much to me! :p

But any search of the internet will show that it's a fact that a minority of scholars debate this issue and they put forth arguments in support of their position.

It's up to Muslims whether they find those arguments convincing or not.

[Rock Devil]

Says who there ain't a verse in Quran about Hijab.

That's why I clearly said 'As far as I know.'

Plus, the thread is about whether the Hijab is a must, not covering hair.

[Superbia]

Plus, the thread is about whether the Hijab is a must, not covering hair.

Huh? Isn't that the same thing? :os

[Rock Devil]

Huh? Isn't that the same thing? :os

The Hijab has came into fashion these days. You seem red ones, blue ones, crystal ones, diamond ones and just every single type out there.

How can that be Islamic?

[FAITH86]

Hijab ain't only the piece of cloth you cover your hair with. Hijab concept is actually wider than that, it includes your clothes modesty and covering everything except the face and the hands as per the Hadeeth of the prophet (PBUH), the one where he was talking to his daughter Fatma.
"إن المرأة إذا بلغت المحيض لا يصح أن يرى منها إلا هذا وهذا -وأشار إلى وجهه ويديه"

[STING]

Apart from the face, hands and feet, everything else should be covered with modest clothing. Pretty straight forward I suppose.

[Geya]

Cover or dont cover thats ur choice

[Superbia]

^

Of course it’s your choice, but it’s about being a must Islamically. Hence, it’s in the Islamic Sabla?

[IceTea]

This Hijab issue ruling is sealed and not subject to modifications

[Geya]

Well some say yes some say no...I personally feel both

Like ya u should but its not that big of a deal if u dont

[IceTea]

Cute, it is a big deal for muslim women, otherwsie it is disobeying Allah and the prophet commands.

[~cK~]

if its not a big deal then people should do it? :bored:

and who said it isnt?

[STING]

All we do is our choice, including murder and so. No one forces us to do anything. As long as we know the consequences, and then accept them :)!

[Geya]

OKAAAY well if u think of it that way than yaa

but tell me this why is it in the prophet days the women covered up than in my mom days they didnt because they didnt know not know but something about not knowing and didnt wear it until they got married and now i see grls wearing it at age 9 :s

[Threadlike]

Oh it all boils down to choice. Scholars can write for thousands of years but if you're not convinced with it; you won't do it. And there's really no use of doing it without being 100% convinced that it is right; otherwise you're just being a sheep.

There IS argument against the necessity of hijab among certain scholars. No one says it's 'bida'a' or 'innovation' that's for sure. However, the ones who argue the argument that is with hijab tend to have the most proper and trustworthy evidence. In other words; they tend to make a better case than their opponents in my opinion.

[QuEeN]

yes it is a must.

[Rock Devil]

New discussion:

When do you think is the right age for ladies to wear Hijab?

[Superbia]

^ When she's convinced. It should NEVER be forced.

[El Rey]

New discussion:

When do you think is the right age for ladies to wear Hijab?

It's not when you think. It's what Islam says about it. And faith already answered your question:


Hijab ain't only the piece of cloth you cover your hair with. Hijab concept is actually wider than that, it includes your clothes modesty and covering everything except the face and the hands as per the Hadeeth of the prophet (PBUH), the one where he was talking to his daughter Fatma.
"إن المرأة إذا بلغت المحيض لا يصح أن يرى منها إلا هذا وهذا -وأشار إلى وجهه ويديه"

And that's is when the girl reaches her puberty.

[death rose]

Well some say yes some say no...I personally feel both

Like ya u should but its not that big of a deal if u dont

lool cute ting ma inti t8arari (you dont decide if its a big deal or not)
if its not then why would we get say2at and nit3aqab (translate?..punished?) for showing our hair
yes its a must xD

[Khalid]

أن أسماء بنت أبي بكر رضي الله عنهما دخلت على رسول الله وعليها ثياب رقاق ، فأعرض عنها رسول الله وقال لها : " يا أسماء إن المرأة إذا بلغت المحيض لم يصلح أن يرى منها إلا هذا وهذا وأشار إلى وجهه وكفيه "

قال تعالى: "وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الأُولَى"

يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَنْ يَأْتِ مِنْكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُبَيِّنَةٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ وَكَانَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرًا(30)}.

[Endure Whisper]

Hijab is a must. As others said, you cannot modify this ruling. Parents should advice and talk to their daughters about it at an early age so they can get the interest in wearing it when they reach puberty. No one should force (that's what I think), but one should know how to convince others, in a good way.

As for the styles and colors, I don't think there is harm in wearing it the way you want as long as you cover the areas that must be covered. I don't think Islam set a rule on how stylish you can get, Allah a3lam.

[marianna]

أن أسماء بنت أبي بكر رضي الله عنهما دخلت على رسول الله وعليها ثياب رقاق ، فأعرض عنها رسول الله وقال لها : " يا أسماء إن المرأة إذا بلغت المحيض لم يصلح أن يرى منها إلا هذا وهذا وأشار إلى وجهه وكفيه "

قال تعالى: "وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الأُولَى"

يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَنْ يَأْتِ مِنْكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُبَيِّنَةٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ وَكَانَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرًا(30)}.

I have NO idea what this says.

Can someone please translate it? Thanks.

[Endure Whisper]

^ Basically it's a hadeeth that says a woman must not show any part of her body except for her face and hands.

Therefore, Hijab is a must.

[Mr Tickle]

Why should a woman's hair be covered-up?

Thanks

[florentine]

The facts in a nutshell:

Hijab is a proper Islamic dress code, which is primarily intended to safeguard the modesty, dignity and honor of men and women. By wearing Hijab, women protect themselves from any lustful gaze or act that may expose them to temptation or harassment of any kind. On the other hand, it protects men from indulgence in vices and unlawful acts.

Hijab does not only refer to head cover, but to the whole dressing of a woman. This means that there are certain requirements for a woman's dress to be Islamic:

It must cover the whole body.

It must not be tight or transparent.

It must not delineate the parts of the body, especially those parts that are sexually attractive.

It must not be a dress that is usually worn by men.

Hence, a Muslim woman is permitted to wear whatever she likes as long as her dress has all the legal requirements of a woman's Islamic dress code, and it covers the `awrah (sensitive parts of the body that a woman must cover in front of non-mahrams). This is agreed upon by all scholars and jurists.

However, scholars differ concerning the limits of a woman's `awrah, depending on different interpretations of the verse that is mentioned in the Quran regarding hijab, and this entails a disagreement among scholars concerning the ruling of niqab (covering the face and hands); whether it is obligatory or not. The majority of Muslim scholars, maintain that niqab is not obligatory. Only some of the scholars see that niqab is obligatory.

The verse of the Quran that mentions drawing ur veils over your bosoms has to be read with its Tafseer. The Tafseer includes the historical backgroud about the ayah and it tells us that during the time of the Prophet (saw), women would cover their hair but leave their necks and chest exposed. Thus the verse in the Quran didn't refer to the hair as it had already been covered, but instead told the women that instead of pushing the veil back to expose the neck and chest, to draw that veil over their bosoms as well as head. This point is further proved through various authentic ahadeeth.

To further explain women's dress, another verse of the Quran states: O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them [when they go out]. That will be better, that so they may be recognized and not annoyed.
This is the verse that discusses the outer garment that the Quran mentions as a "cloak".
Its up to every individual, whether they feel that they have to live by the Quran and Sunnah or not.
According to Shariah, a woman starts wearing hijab when she reaches puberty.

[B S Al Hassani]

Hijab is a must for the lady when it reaches her puberty"periods". And i dont get it why many thinks that in not wearing Hijab actually you are not doing a sin!!!! If ALLAH have commanded something, who are we to feel conveince or not, we should just follow, he is the creater n he knows the best.

[Black Lolly]

Ummm.. I don't think it's a must since it's been only mentioned once and in the sunna and it's not that clear.. the rasool said cover everything except the face and hands but I don't feel that hair shouldve been mentioned for girls not to cover their hair I mean it's just hair..! I personally don't get it lol
And AFAIK it was just a sign of modesty back then noone said anything about like how we should wear it all the time and it should cover the whole hair.. I don't think it was a big deal back then as it is right now..

[Khalid]

Let go back to the old days, before more than 40 years. our fathers and others clothes were better than today, I'm talking about the whole clothes so not only the hijab. Jews, Christians, Muslims and others used to wear a respectable dress and good, that doesn't show any part from their body(I am talking about ladies*).
Today, everything changed... Muslims ladies wear a special abaya's, and put their hair a lil bit out for guys, or maybe they don't do it for flirting or these stuff, maybe they just want to put it, and then the boys jump to them for flirting. I don't blame the boys. Back to the topic, and christians, if you've watch the oooold movies, you'll see that british and others used to wear like us(muslims), and today new things came out, go out wearing a bikini, wear a cut and go for shopping.

I hope I explained good, excuse me i'm speechless.

[Giselle]

Is the Hijab a must for ladies, Muslim ladies?

Yes it is a must.

Answered very nicely by FAITH86:


Hijab ain't only the piece of cloth you cover your hair with. Hijab concept is actually wider than that, it includes your clothes modesty and covering everything except the face and the hands as per the Hadeeth of the prophet (PBUH), the one where he was talking to his daughter Fatma.
"إن المرأة إذا بلغت المحيض لا يصح أن يرى منها إلا هذا وهذا -وأشار إلى وجهه ويديه"



When do you think is the right age for ladies to wear Hijab?

Again Faith answers this question as well in the above quote.
So after puberty.

[Khalid]

The Prophet said about that 'hands' too. So you ladies should wear gloves!? lol

[El Rey]

Where did he say that ? Read the hadeeth again

[Giselle]

Not the hands...just up to the wrist.

[BrAiKi]

Off topics were deleted, please keep the discussion within the topics.
If any of the members want me to move the deleted posts to a new thread and a new discussion, please contact me.
Thank you!

[BrAiKi]

the hadeeth says, all should be convered, expect for THIS and THIS, and the prophet pointed at his PALMS and FACE

[~cK~]

i dunno how people can argue at that ^ :s its clear and understandable
u cant *feel* its not right and say its not a *big deal* and do it..
do what youv been told for your own good :D

[Shy]

Bukhari is the best one right? This one says they covered their faces.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/060.sbt.html#006.060.282

[El Rey]

They did doesn't mean they must do.

[Shy]

It says they did it because the verse told them to.

[BrAiKi]

Nope, Shai, that's part of the Arabic tradition. Existed even before Islam.

[Black Lolly]

Muslims ladies wear a special abaya's, and put their hair a lil bit out for guys, or maybe they don't do it for flirting or these stuff, maybe they just want to put it, and then the boys jump to them for flirting. I don't blame the boys.

This is sad.. most guys think in that way, that girls dress up for them.. We don't..
You all have to realise this we don't dress up for you guys specially not for you to flirt with us ! And so what if lets say she showed skin, or in yer case, hair lol.. Are the guys like just soem kindda robots that whenever they see a girl they should automatically flirt of comment or whatever.. Geez it's like you're saying they are brainless they can't be blamed for anything :os .. So basically, guys are idiots!

[Khalid]

^ Not all of the girls, maybe you're not one of them. But I'm sure if you're dress-up like that, im 100% sure that boys look at you in a flirty way.

[Thalia]

Afaik, he pointed to his hands and head. Your face is part of your head.

Damn. If he had just said SAID it in WORDS. What's with all the pointing business? Something people have to do for thousands of years to come... and they're supposed to do so on something that's as clear as a game of charades.

In my personal opinion, it's all about sex. When sex isn't made into such a big damn issue, no one cares. No one notices. But nooooo... sex is everything. And everything is about sex. And the funny thing is.. sex is what you make it. Why is men's hair not too? Why are their hands not? .. Actually, I think men's hair and big strong hands can be quite darn sexy.

There's a big thing about hijab nowadays.. and this is why. Because people are moving about. They're moving into non-islamic societies.. got MTV, and other information from other parts of the world (like internet) and feel threatened by the different ways. So they group up together, stick to each other and stick hard and fast to their 'rules'.. making a bigger and bigger deal out of them.

And now, hijab is an issue. Except the irony is.. is a colourful silk abaya full of rhinestones and embroidery still a hijab?
Now before you answer, ask yourself.. have you got a decorated abaya?

[Muggle]

^At least show some kind of respect to our Prophet :PBUH:. He's not any random 'guy' as you just called him, and I find this line of yours "Damn. If the guy had just SAID it in WORDS. What's with all the pointing business?" very inappropriate. The hadeeth is clear, and the vast majority of us believe covering everything but the face and hands is a must.
Now if any woman wants to cover her face, let her do it, we're not stopping her, but as far as I know, we don't have to do it.

Oh and Thalia, what's the point of being part of a religion if you're not gonna follow its rules? Why don't we all make up own own religions and pick rules that suit us? Those who see all kinds of seductions on TV and all and STILL follow what their religion asks them to do have great faith, and that's something to admire.

[Rock Devil]

New discussion:

If a woman is bald, should the Hijab be on her?

[Jeff]

New discussion:

If a woman is bald, should the Hijab be on her?

A VERY cute question...

[Thalia]

^At least show some kind of respect to our Prophet :PBUH:. He's not any random 'guy' as you just called him, and I find this line of yours "Damn. If the guy had just SAID it in WORDS. What's with all the pointing business?" very inappropriate. The hadeeth is clear, and the vast majority of us believe covering everything but the face and hands is a must.
Now if any woman wants to cover her face, let her do it, we're not stopping her, but as far as I know, we don't have to do it.

Oh and Thalia, what's the point of being part of a religion if you're not gonna follow its rules? Why don't we all make up own own religions and pick rules that suit us? Those who see all kinds of seductions on TV and all and STILL follow what their religion asks them to do have great faith, and that's something to admire.
You can put any kind of ending to your prophet as you see fit, I don't mind. But you can't force the rest of the world to do to. Secondly, last I heard, mohammed was a guy not a girl, and in my books, yes.. he was any random person. To you, he ain't. I don't go around expecting people to stop talking about Jesus like he was simply a man and not also God Himself. So, to each his own. There's nothing even slightly offensive or disrespecting in my post. Well, unless it was somehow disrespecting to speculate and question and think.


Also, some people would disagree with you that those who watch 'bad evil tv' could be good muslims.

No one has answered me about the decorated, pretty, elegant and attractive hijabs. So I guess you're talking to the wrong person about picking bits here and there from a religion. ;)

[Thalia]

A VERY cute question...
But what about her neck and ears, oh jeff.

I tell ya, some people look better with the full veil on. lol.. I've seen women wear the hijab and not even bother to wash, colour and brush their hair. Those women losing their hair never take it off.. they use it to cover what's maybe something embarasssing.

[Jeff]

But what about her neck and ears, oh jeff.

I tell ya, some people look better with the full veil on. lol.. I've seen women wear the hijab and not even bother to wash, colour and brush their hair. Those women losing their hair never take it off.. they use it to cover what's maybe something embarasssing.

I just thought it was a clever question from Rock Devil. Gotta give him credit! :)

[FAITH86]

Rock Devil, again, it's not about covering the hair alone. As I said the Hijab concept is wider than that. So no matter what, the woman should cover her head and body & wear with modesty whether she's with hair on her head or not ;)

Smart question nevertheless.

[El Rey]

Afaik, he pointed to his hands and head. Your face is part of your head.

Damn. If the guy had just SAID it in WORDS. What's with all the pointing business? Something people have to do for thousands of years to come... and they're supposed to do so on something that's as clear as a game of charades.

In my personal opinion, it's all about sex. When sex isn't made into such a big damn issue, no one cares. No one notices. But nooooo... sex is everything. And everything is about sex. And the funny thing is.. sex is what you make it. Why is men's hair not too? Why are their hands not? .. Actually, I think men's hair and big strong hands can be quite darn sexy.

There's a big thing about hijab nowadays.. and this is why. Because people are moving about. They're moving into non-islamic societies.. got MTV, and other information from other parts of the world (like internet) and feel threatened by the different ways. So they group up together, stick to each other and stick hard and fast to their 'rules'.. making a bigger and bigger deal out of them.

And now, hijab is an issue. Except the irony is.. is a colourful silk abaya full of rhinestones and embroidery still a hijab?
Now before you answer, ask yourself.. have you got a decorated abaya?

It's not about sex. It's about decency and chastity. If the girl lost these things then shyness will be lost with them and a girl without shyness is so opt to sins. And yah sex ( Adultery ) would be one of them. When God gave these rules it's not to opress the women their freedom, spare us these craps, it's to gaurdm keep and protect her from men. Men who see women as sex machines. Islam values women as humans and a decent woman will never be a sex machine in anyone's eyes.

Regarding, the full of embroidment abaya. I think if it's not tempting and negatively remarkable then it's ok. The point of covering the hair is chastity and decency and so will it be with the clothes and abayas.


New discussion:

If a woman is bald, should the Hijab be on her?

Rock, we don't want to go and be like jews. God give them an order and they questionedm questioned and questioned. Like the cow story when God asked them to slaughter it and gave them its descriptions, yet they asked about too detailed questions like its color etc etc.

Another example when God prohibited them from fishing on Saturday. They threw their nets on Friday and took them on Monday ( Trying to fool God's orders ).

I don't think we want to do like them. God told us something we should obey. The hadeeth is so clear. When the girl reaches her puberty. She's only allowed to show her face and palm. I don't know what being bold has to do with this. You just have to understand it's not about only covering the hair. It's more than this.

[Threadlike]

You can put any kind of ending to your prophet as you see fit, I don't mind. But you can't force the rest of the world to do to. Secondly, last I heard, mohammed was a guy not a girl, and in my books, yes.. he was any random person. To you, he ain't. I don't go around expecting people to stop talking about Jesus like he was simply a man and not also God Himself. So, to each his own. There's nothing even slightly offensive or disrespecting in my post. Well, unless it was somehow disrespecting to speculate and question and think.


Also, some people would disagree with you that those who watch 'bad evil tv' could be good muslims.

No one has answered me about the decorated, pretty, elegant and attractive hijabs. So I guess you're talking to the wrong person about picking bits here and there from a religion. ;)
You know I was about to reply to your previous post.
Then I saw that your aim was just to think and speculate. And frankly; that is good. I can't refute you speculating or thinking. But hey, we can talk it through, right? You can obviously label the prophet PBUH as a 'random guy'. It's only normal for a non-Muslim :os!

Why did the prophet PBUH point and not talk? Perhaps it is much clearer in that than just saying which parts one has to cover. The controversy on 'which parts to cover' arises from other hadiths and other sources of Sunna; not on this hadith in particular.

But I don't think it is entirely about sex. Even though sex and adultery were not 'huge' issues in Arabia. Before Islam, Arabs used to go around the Ka'aba. Naked. That HAS GOT to do something with sex not being an issue. But the idea is to DO make it an issue. To DO stress that it isn't normal when it is not legitimate..If you agree that sleeping around is 'normal' then you can call a stop to hijab and men covering up or men and women having to lower their gaze or anything of the sort.

I also think hijab is about lots of other things...About modesty, character, grace and, most importantly; the obedience of God. It's hard to have a non-Muslim see into that, but sometimes, in some awesome moments of clarity; non-Muslims can really see deep into Islam and its concepts...And, to me as a Muslim, even if they're not interested in converting or anything; it feels great.

[Shy]

Nope, Shai, that's part of the Arabic tradition. Existed even before Islam.

Read the link, here it is again.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#006.060.282

It says they covered their faces when they heard the verse, not before.

[Thalia]

You know I was about to reply to your previous post.
Then I saw that your aim was just to think and speculate. And frankly; that is good. I can't refute you speculating or thinking. But hey, we can talk it through, right? You can obviously label the prophet PBUH as a 'random guy'. It's only normal for a non-Muslim :os!

Why did the prophet PBUH point and not talk? Perhaps it is much clearer in that than just saying which parts one has to cover. The controversy on 'which parts to cover' arises from other hadiths and other sources of Sunna; not on this hadith in particular.

But I don't think it is entirely about sex. Even though sex and adultery were not 'huge' issues in Arabia. Before Islam, Arabs used to go around the Ka'aba. Naked. That HAS GOT to do something with sex not being an issue. But the idea is to DO make it an issue. To DO stress that it isn't normal when it is not legitimate..If you agree that sleeping around is 'normal' then you can call a stop to hijab and men covering up or men and women having to lower their gaze or anything of the sort.

I also think hijab is about lots of other things...About modesty, character, grace and, most importantly; the obedience of God. It's hard to have a non-Muslim see into that, but sometimes, in some awesome moments of clarity; non-Muslims can really see deep into Islam and its concepts...And, to me as a Muslim, even if they're not interested in converting or anything; it feels great.
You just justifies my point. It is about sex.
All this recent .. um.. obsession with it, is because everything today is about sex. And in my opinion, the more you hide it away, the more you segregate, the more sexual tension will exist. The more sexual tension, the less 'safe' it is, and sex is more of an issue.. sex becomes the reason for or against something, like keeping women indoors instead of actively taking part in society.. it's a vicious circle - but one thing I've seen.. that has alot to do with this topic.. men chase and harass women alot more in countries where the women cover up and segregate themselves than in countries where they don't.

And that, my friend, is food for thought.

[El Rey]

but one thing I've seen.. that has alot to do with this topic.. men chase and harass women alot more in countries where the women cover up and segregate themselves than in countries where they don't.

And that, my friend, is food for thought.

Yah that's why the rape crimes. Sexual harrasment. Sex related crimes like cheating etc etc are: How many every minute ? in the girls freedom countries. Or ah show your body you're decent no one will touch you. Yah in the west. Why don't we talk statistics.

[Thalia]

Yah that's why the rape crimes. Sexual harrasment. Sex related crimes like cheating etc etc are: How many every minute ? in the girls freedom countries. Or ah show your body you're decent no one will touch you. Yah in the west. Why don't we talk statistics.
We can't talk statistics because they don't exist in your countries. D'uh.

You're not even allowed to talk about incidents of harassment/rape here incase it's just a rumor. :rolleyes: How many of these do your newspapers publish? Let's not even go there. :hyper:

Just because they are swept under the magic flying carpet it doesn't mean they don't happen. Just this week there was a thread about what you usually do when a bunch of guys in a car follow you home. Everyone had quite a few experiences to share.

And did you know, they tell female tourists to watch out for the men? And not to go out alone after dark? My mother in law would hardly let me cross the road from the house, in the dark, without a mahram. lol.

No one is advocating for going out naked. But a balance is better than any extreme.

[El Rey]

Two days ago I read in the newspaper that a man was sentenced 15 years in the prison for raping a girl. So yes our newpapers talk abiut these things, if they did not this means they don't exist. How many crimes like this happen in the west? Am talking about real crimes not those who shout at you while they are in their car.

Don't fool yourself you already know and know it so well that when the girl is decent she's more and safer than these who uncover. Sick men are everywhere and the arab saying says: The door which from wind comes in , you beter close it. Girls should close the door where bad men come to them and start to annoy them. Oh Islam told the girls how to do it. be decent.



And did you know, they tell female tourists to watch out for the men? And not to go out alone after dark? My mother in law would hardly let me cross the road from the house, in the dark, without a mahram. lol.


What's wrong in a mother asking her daughter to watch out men? As I said, bad men are everywhere but they only chase specific girls. Birds of feather flock together.

[Threadlike]

You just justifies my point. It is about sex.
All this recent .. um.. obsession with it, is because everything today is about sex. And in my opinion, the more you hide it away, the more you segregate, the more sexual tension will exist. The more sexual tension, the less 'safe' it is, and sex is more of an issue.. sex becomes the reason for or against something, like keeping women indoors instead of actively taking part in society.. it's a vicious circle - but one thing I've seen.. that has alot to do with this topic.. men chase and harass women alot more in countries where the women cover up and segregate themselves than in countries where they don't.

And that, my friend, is food for thought.
Oh no, I think that whether you are 'uncovered' or 'covered', you may draw looks and stares. I wasn't even arguing that at all.
But the way I see it; I don't think harassment is more in a place and less in a place...And if that's the case; the root cause is NOT hijab.

[wudjab]

There are no statistics regarding rape and sexual harassment published in your countries, so your argument is false, misleading and invalid.

[Rock Devil]

Off-topics are hanging out. :rolleyes:

[Towelie]

actually there are statistics and i remember them being published in the omani news paper few weeks ago... i will try to get them and share the numbers.

[Thalia]

actually there are statistics and i remember them being published in the omani news paper few weeks ago... i will try to get them and share the numbers.
are you also going to share the numbers of all those who don't report for fear of shaming their family? (or being accused of adultery, homosexuality etc...)

[Thalia]

Oh no, I think that whether you are 'uncovered' or 'covered', you may draw looks and stares. I wasn't even arguing that at all.
But the way I see it; I don't think harassment is more in a place and less in a place...And if that's the case; the root cause is NOT hijab.
I've been in both places and I'm a woman. I should know. There is a huge difference in the behaviour and so called "respect" towards women, and myself a mother, on the streets.

Walking by some suntan lotion ad of a woman in a bikini, wearing my sexiest outfit, i feel less of a sexual object as a woman than walking down 10th September Street Tripoli in an abaya and hijab.

Maybe it's not the actual hijab. Maybe it's the whole segregation.. you have men of 35 still virgins.. don't tell me there isn't this whole mystique and curiosity of sex. Jeez.. 20 years of every inch of their being begging to do what comes so natural.. I don't blame them!

Then you take the ladies away from the scene.. and the mystery and curiosity soon becomes an obsession. That's when you get your everyday guy in his shiny car chasing the ladies that venture out of the safety of their barred up homes.

If I lived in such a place, I too would not allow my teenage kids out the front door.

Go figure.

[Thalia]

Two days ago I read in the newspaper that a man was sentenced 15 years in the prison for raping a girl. So yes our newpapers talk abiut these things, if they did not this means they don't exist. How many crimes like this happen in the west? Am talking about real crimes not those who shout at you while they are in their car.

Don't fool yourself you already know and know it so well that when the girl is decent she's more and safer than these who uncover. Sick men are everywhere and the arab saying says: The door which from wind comes in , you beter close it. Girls should close the door where bad men come to them and start to annoy them. Oh Islam told the girls how to do it. be decent.




What's wrong in a mother asking her daughter to watch out men? As I said, bad men are everywhere but they only chase specific girls. Birds of feather flock together.
lol .. you didn;t think I was walking outside in a country like that with my ankles showing.. did you? :hyper:

Yes, they flock together indeed. :yes:

[Towelie]

are you also going to share the numbers of all those who don't report for fear of shaming their family? (or being accused of adultery, homosexuality etc...)

am sure the statistics in the west are not perfect either, and i dont think this is the place to argue this. first you wanted statistics then you say they are not accurate:bored:.

and argument for not feeling safe to walk in countries such us Oman applies to any one any where . when i was abroad studying, i never go out alone after sunset which is 3pm :p and i was harassed manytimes and am pretty sure i was coverd 100% coz it was freezing :p

(male incase you are wondering :omg:)

[Thalia]

am sure the statistics in the west are not perfect either, and i dont think this is the place to argue this. first you wanted statistics then you say they are not accurate:bored:.

and argument for not feeling safe to walk in countries such us Oman applies to any one any where . when i was abroad studying, i never go out alone after sunset which is 3pm :p and i was harassed manytimes and am pretty sure i was coverd 100% coz it was freezing :p

(male incase you are wondering :omg:)
Are you telling me someone harassed you while wearing a big wide dress and scarf.. in a western country? And in a sexual way? Calling you a towel head or anything in that bracket is a whole other kind of harassment. :p

(what exactly is male? You or your harasser?)

p.s. I never asked for statistics since I know muslim countries have a hard time collecting them and the risk and price is too high for the victim to report them.)

[wudjab]

Towelie,

I hope you're going to point us in the direction of some sort of official government or NGO website where these statistics are available.

Thanks.

[Towelie]

Are you telling me someone harassed you while wearing a big wide dress and scarf.. in a western country? And in a sexual way? Calling you a towel head or anything in that bracket is a whole other kind of harassment. :p

(what exactly is male? You or your harasser?)

p.s. I never asked for statistics since I know muslim countries have a hard time collecting them and the risk and price is too high for the victim to report them.)

stop harassing me.lol

one small example i was walking when some random guy says ( hey i ****** a brown girl yesterday .. i think she was you sis)

another one would be some one throwing a bottle of beer from the car which was full actually.

yet i never generalise or anything and doesnt mean i hate all the people from that country.
what are the risks for reporting a crime in Oman?
i am sorry for going offtopic.

[Towelie]

Towelie,

I hope you're going to point us in the direction of some sort of official government or NGO website where these statistics are available.

Thanks.

yea thats what i am hoping to do but not untill next week since i cant get the data.. every one is off to dubai lol

[wudjab]

What, they take their websites with them to Dubai ?

:)

[Towelie]

What, they take their websites with them to Dubai ?

:)

dont have arabic keyboard and too lazy to use the internet one right now. :p

[BrAiKi]

Stay within the topic please, and just a reminder, this thread is discussion about Hijab for Muslim Women

[El Rey]

lol .. you didn;t think I was walking outside in a country like that with my ankles showing.. did you? :hyper:

Yes, they flock together indeed. :yes:

Then you know that uncoverd women face problems and harrasments ;)


Are you telling me someone harassed you while wearing a big wide dress and scarf.. in a western country? And in a sexual way? Calling you a towel head or anything in that bracket is a whole other kind of harassment. :p
)

In the west they have beaches for naked men and women. Half naked in the streets all the time. They got adopted to it, yet this doesn't deny the fact they have so many sexual related problems. Thank God for Islam bless.


And this is for you :hyper:

[Thalia]

'sexual related problems' have been around as long as sex has. I think you can admit now that Islam, or rather the hijab does not stop them from occuring. Infact, a guy has to be rather desperate to chase, harass and rape a woman who's covered from head to toe.

Desperation.. from where? Why?


You have enough sand. Keep putting your head in it. It don't bother me in the slightest. ;)

I'm off to bed now. Goodnight el ray.

[El Rey]

'sexual related problems' have been around as long as sex has. I think you can admit now that Islam, or rather the hijab does not stop them from occuring. Infact, a guy has to be rather desperate to chase, harass and rape a woman who's covered from head to toe.

Desperation.. from where? Why?


You have enough sand. Keep putting your head in it. It don't bother me in the slightest. ;)

I'm off to bed now. Goodnight el ray.

Islam at least tries to stop these pervert acts from happening by giving instructions to women on how to protect themselves and punish the guys who act against them. And as you said, some men are too desperate to chase anything even if it's fully covered. How about the uncovered one ?

The uncoved food always rot easier and faster. You cover it you keep the insects away ;)

Good night. And have hijabi dreams :p

[Shy]

The uncoved food always rot easier and faster. You cover it you keep the insects away ;)

So women are just "food" to you. Lets put them in fridges to keep them fresh.

[El Rey]

Sorry but you just showed your level of stupidity. This is figure of speech.

Food is tempting to insects and mosquitos
Women are tempting to men.

We cover food so insects keep away. So it stays in a good acondition.
Islam keeps women decent by Hijab so bad men stay away from them. This way women keep safe and no harrasment will appear.


So yes they are delicious food :love: . But of course you won't understand this. You don't even know what religion means. Mr.Godless.

[sophis^catrina]

You just justifies my point. It is about sex.
All this recent .. um.. obsession with it, is because everything today is about sex. And in my opinion, the more you hide it away, the more you segregate, the more sexual tension will exist. The more sexual tension, the less 'safe' it is, and sex is more of an issue.. sex becomes the reason for or against something, like keeping women indoors instead of actively taking part in society.. it's a vicious circle - but one thing I've seen.. that has alot to do with this topic.. men chase and harass women alot more in countries where the women cover up and segregate themselves than in countries where they don't.

And that, my friend, is food for thought.

You speak as though men in the West have no sex drive and don't eye women up. I live in the West, and I continually see men leering at women in the underground, men talking between themselves on who is fit and who is not. I am sorry, but I don't buy the argument that Western men don't go checking out women and eyeing her up continually. I am happy to dress modestly, and have no desire to be looked at as a sex object, and I feel that the hijab sends that strong signal.

If men have no respect for women, that has to do with their low morals, not segregation, whatever religion they belong.

[marianna]

^^^

Seems like we have a universal truth:

"Men are far too mischievous for their own good."

[Thalia]

You speak as though men in the West have no sex drive and don't eye women up. I live in the West, and I continually see men leering at women in the underground, men talking between themselves on who is fit and who is not. I am sorry, but I don't buy the argument that Western men don't go checking out women and eyeing her up continually. I am happy to dress modestly, and have no desire to be looked at as a sex object, and I feel that the hijab sends that strong signal.

If men have no respect for women, that has to do with their low morals, not segregation, whatever religion they belong.
There's a difference between eyeing someone up from across the room (which i'm sure even the girls in college and uni do) and following her home, driving by her as she walks, hands out the car window trying to touch her.


Yes all men have a sex drive. It's amazing though how differently they go about it. And it comes down to desperation. I don't think checking a woman out, wearing something tight or short is desperation. But yeah, I think a gang of guys in a car, crawling beside a woman walking home in a big black dress is desperation.

And this is an undeniable fact. Just a few weeks ago, my sister-in-law was over from Libya. I said.. well how do you like it here?

First thing she said is.. 'I like it. You can just ... live. No one pays any attention to you, you can walk in the street, go anywhere and it's ok. No harassment, nothing. It's like you are invisible.'

Segregation makes women something they can't have. So it makes women something they want. Badly. It is desperation that drives a man to 'cross the boundaries' from eyeing you up to following you home and helping himself to what's not been given to him - when you are covered from head to toe!!

I'm not generalising of course. Not all men would be doing this.. but enough men to make it something every muhajiba in here has experienced atleast once in her teenage life.

[ysmf]

I would like to take this opportunity to mention something significant regarding the hijab.

The purpose of hijab is to conceal the evident beauty of woman. I doubt if women are fully aware of the effect that they have upon man. In the early Christian times of old, in European society, women too did cover themselves most modestly, however with the passage of time the raiment was ever lifted higher and dropped lower to reveal more flesh. This was for that reason that man became ever more desensitised to that which was left uncovered thus bold women seeking the wandering attention of man resorted to revealing a little more than was prudent in stage upon stage until we are at the level where we are today in that women appear in public virtually naked in every aspect.

A religious issue arises because of this and it is something that is quite important, for those of faith, to understand. According to the prescribed law men and women alike are to adopt the virtues of modesty for not only is modesty a branch of faith, but so too is it an inherent society defender thus we are not to be revealing our adornments to anyone who is not of those permitted to see us unadorned. Both sexes are encouraged to wear attire that reveals not the shape and form of the body and woman are especially encouraged to cover everything except perhaps their hands and faces. The object is to make oneself as uninteresting as possible. The religious issue I mentioned earlier is that when a knowing person does not cover themselves appropriately the result is that they receive lustful glances from some people and they thus incur the sin of inciting lust. Not only that but the looker incurs a sin too. Had the immodestly dressed person simply followed the divine guidance and by means of self-control of the inner desire for ostentation (riyya) entered into the public domain dressed accordingly then no sins in that regard would have been committed.

People of whichever sex who knowingly reveal themselves in public are simply following their own base desires and lusts and in doing so are encouraging sin in themselves and others.

How foolish or ignorant is the person who seeks the lustful favours of the creation whilst disobeying the Creator?

There are essentially two root sins one of which is lewdness and the other iniquity. The hijab is an evident protection against lewdness.

In countries where the hijab is not employed the statistics of sexual engrossment are staggering. Most products are advertised with a semi-clad lady. Alcohol and smoking are advertised with sexiness. It is impossible to leave ones home and not be exposed to the shameful display of the human form in every place imaginable.

Amongst the sayings of the prophets of old was said, "when you have no shame then do as you wish". If modesty is a branch of faith then what does the open display of flesh say about the faith of a people.

[marianna]

Sadly though you CAN have women who cover every inch of their body but still do lustful things. In the end you have to see inside the person's heart.

You can have nuns, for example, who don't cover their hair however they live pious lives--dedicate their whole life to God, His works, and assisting the needy...are they any less religous?

[ysmf]

One should never judge other people for we cannot see what is contained within their hearts; that ability belongs to The Creator alone. What we should try to do is to fulfill our obligations and make efforts to improve our own condition. It may be that by our example others, who had become astray, may find guidance.

In the case of hijab wearing women who nonetheless commit acts of open lewdness the cause of their actions can be attributed to two things namely ignorance or disobedience. In the case of ignorance it is upon us to encourage people to follow the purer path by using wisdom and kind words. In the case of disobedience then the case is between the transgressor and The All Mighty.

And The All Wise knows best.