What is a "Muslim"?

[Jeff]

The Ahmadiyya thread got me thinking:

What makes a Muslim a Muslim?

Is it believing in a certain set of things?

Or it believing in the correct MEANING of those things?

Or does it include not believing in certain things?

Or is it doing certain things too?

What is a Muslim?

[Threadlike]

Well there is quite a number of things and answers for this question...

For example, the prophet PBUH said, 'The deen (Islam) is advice'. He also said, 'Salah (Prayer) is a pillar of deen (Islam), whoever breaks it breaks his deen (Islam)'. He mentioned the difference between Muslims and non-Muslims is that Muslims pray the Salah. He also said, 'Islam is built on five pillars, the shahada (bearing witness) that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is His prophet, praying Salat, giving zakat (charity), fasting in Ramadan and the Holy Pilgrimage to those who are able to do it'.

And many many other hadiths and sayings of the prophet PBUH. The Qura'nic verses in regard to who Muslims ARE and what Muslims should DO are numerous...Some of them are:

132. And obey Allah and the Messenger. that ye may obtain mercy.
133. Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-
134. Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good;-
135. And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins,- and who can forgive sins except Allah.- and are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done.
136. For such the reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens with rivers flowing underneath,- an eternal dwelling: How excellent a recompense for those who work (and strive)!
-The Holy Quran, Chapter 3.

101. And how would ye deny Faith while unto you are rehearsed the Signs of Allah, and among you Lives the Messenger. Whoever holds firmly to Allah will be shown a way that is straight.
-The Holy Qura'n, Chapter 3.

110. Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
-The Holy Qura'n, Chapter 3.

And many others including Surat al Ikhlas (Chapter 112) that determines Muslim concept of God:

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.
The Qura'n also instructs on the nature of the prophet PBUH:

40. Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
-The Holy Qura'n, Chapter 33.
The Qura'n never looks at 'future prophets' after the prophet PBUH and only mentions Mohammed PBUH and the ones BEFORE him:

4. Those who believe in what is sent down to you (O my Prophet) and in what was sent down before you
-The Holy Qura'n, Chapter 2.

[Jeff]

That's all really interesting.

But I was thinking more not what a Muslim should believe or do, but in terms of simple definition.

Is anyone who says, "I believe in One God and Mohammed is His Prophet" a Muslim? Or is it more complicated than that?

[Threadlike]

It's obviously more complicated than that...
That is only the 'admission' that you are a Muslim. With such an admission (including obviously the articles of faith I'm about to describe in a minute) you are PUBLICLY a Muslim. You see, the pillars of FAITH ar different from the pillars of ISLAM. The pillars (or as they are usually called, articles) of faith are: The belief in the one God, His books, His prophets, His angels, the Last Day and Qad'a and Kadar (or, divine destiny). Those are summed up in a hadith in Sahih Bukhari, "It (Al-Iman/faith) is to affirm your faith in Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers and the Last Day, and to believe in the Divine Destiny whether it be good or bad."
And in a Qura'nic verse whose number escapes my memory, sorry :shy:

But anyhow:
A faith where you only believe in God and His prophets but not His angels or His scriptures is obviously incomplete. A faith where you believe in all but the Last Day is incomplete. A faith where you believe in all the prophets but one is incomplete. A faith where you believe in the prophets of Allah up to Mohammed PBUH + one is incomplete.

I hope that's close to what you were aiming for...

[Jeff]

Well, we might be getting there! :p

But for example, how do you TELL what is a disqualifier?

For example, there was an official declaration by Shia authorities that Alawites are Muslims and Shia Muslims at that. But to me, Alawites don't seem like Muslims at all!

Some on the thread say Ahmadiya are Muslims. Others say no. And some Ahmadiya say Threadlike is a Muslim. Others say no! :p

Salafists (or many of them) say Shia are not Muslims. Most Muslims say they are....

Are Quran Only folks Muslims? Or just confused Muslims, but still Muslim?

Anyway, I'm not trying to bring up anything uncomfortable, it's just that I realized when I started trying to analyze it that I had less idea than I thought!

In fact, I wasn't even sure what the general answer among Muslims was or if there was one.

[Diabian]

I think a person who believes in God and the prophet Mohammed ( saying the shahadatain : the verbal commitment to God) is enough to let other consider him/her a muslim.

[ToomuchaT]

A muslim is who pronounce the islamic creed i.e. I bear witness that there is no god but only Allah, and Muhammad :PBUH: is the messenger of Allah.


But is that Moamin i.e faithful in his/er islam??

http://www.islamic-council.com/quran/image/49_014.gif

[14] The bedouins say: "We believe." Say: "You believe not but you only say, 'We have surrendered (in Islâm),' for Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allâh and His Messenger (peace be upon him), He will not decrease anything in reward for your deeds. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

[BrAiKi]

عن أبي عبدالرحمن عبدالله بن عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنهما قال : سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول : ( بني الإسلام على خمس : شهادة أن لا إله إلا الله ، وأن محمدا رسول الله ، وإقام الصلاة ، وإيتاء الزكاة ، وصوم رمضان وحج البيت لمن استطاع اليه سبيلا ) رواه البخاري و مسلم .

Translation:
Prophet Mohammed :PBUH: said: Islam was built on 5 pillars: witnessing that there's no god but God & Mohammed is his messenger, performing the prayers, Giving the zakat, fasting ramadhan and doing the pilgrim, to whoever affords it.

These are the basics that define a muslim, According to the Hadith.
PS: Shia have their own version of this hadith

[Arabian Princess]

If someone says the Shahadateen but doesnt beleive in the Quran, would that qualify him as muslim?

I beleive the shahadateen are not single statments .. to beleive Allah is the only god, you need to beleive in his book .. the Quran .. and to beleive Prophet Mohammed is Allah's prophet, you need to beleive in his words, the Hadeeth.
If you reject those two, then you are rejecting the initial statment.

Any one can come and claim they are muslims, but its not fair for the majority of Muslims if what they are talking about is not related to the essence of Islam.

[Pygmalion]

Thanks Jeff...
I was expecting this thread. A good question was raised on the Ahamadyah thread.
----------------

I think the issue has a lot more than the definition of what Islam is…
There is a difference between acceptance and tolerance… tolerance is what we need, what a religious person is expected to show and what any religion is expected to advocate…

But why would a person be expected to accept whoever claim adherence to his religion, as a member of that religion? This is similar to what the members were discussing on the gay marriage in California a few weeks ago. Being tolerant to the gay community should not mean that you are expected to accept involving gays in every single aspect of your life, in law, schools, public places…etc. Even if you are tolerant to the homo-community, I don’t think the majority of you would let his children watch two guys kissing each other... simply because your tolerance should not be understood as giving up your way or what you think is right!

Islam has some basics that outline its essence. I don’t think we should accept whoever misses with these basics even if he called himself a Muslim, or else we will end up having a horrible version of Islam under the umbrella of tolerance.

Those sects like Ahmadiyah, Aghkhania, Bahaia…etc emerged sometime in the 19th and early 20th centuries, many of which if not all share the belief that Jihad is abrogated after the establishment of the Islamic state in Mecca. They were immensely supported by the British in the time of colonialism, and almost all of those so-called prophets were businessmen based in London. And for the record, even the today Bahai’s and Aghakhanis are business oriented people.
Mohammed is the last prophet, this belief is essential and we cannot afford compromising it. if we accepted Aghakhan as a prophet then God knows how many prophets we would see down the road.
Besides contradicting the essentials, these religions have some disgraceful practices that no one would like to be associated with. As an example, Dawoodi Buhra which claims being a branch of shia maintains a Grand shikh who collects taxes from them.
They have the so called Qadam-boosi [foot-kissing] and Yaad-boosi [hand-kissing] which they offer to the grand sheikh. Their sheikh does nothing but collecting money from those poor people, opening mosques to them (which also serve as collection centers) in the main cities all around the world. In their belief, the Quran is meant to be recited not to be understood, the Alim “scholar” is the only person entitled to do the tafseer and it is a sin trying to learn it yourself, you should only take the Tafseer of the shikh. My friend’s (born to a Buhri family) father gave the grand sheikh (who was Burhan Aldeen in 2000, a PhD holder from Al-Azhar) US$30,000. The grand shikh gave my friend’s father the title of “Shiekh” in return…my friend’s father who has been working very hard in Dubai for the last 30 years, does not even know how to write his name in any language!
If those people claim being Muslims, why would I accept them as such, where is the Islam I know, in what they do!
What if I for example create a new Christian sect and claim stuff like Pygmalion is a prophet, Arab are the superior and others are subhuman, seeking education is a sin, you have to pay the prophet annual fees to maintain your true belief…etc. I don’t think any Christian would accept me as another Christian like a Catholic accepting a Protestant, even if he or she is tolerant…because they will argue that what I believe in is totally against the basics of Christianity.

Besides all that, those people are not interested in any kind of recognition by the mainstream sects. The Buhri mosque in Houston is only for Buhra, non-Buhri’s are not welcome. Where I live, there is a Bahai church…it has nothing to do with the mosque, and I say “Church” because that is the word I heard from many of them.

[islamis4u]

Look brother if someone replies to your answer in one line i would say a Muslim is a Muslim who is just to every aspects of life. Having said so one have to believe in Allah as only God, Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) as last messanger.

[Calla Lilly]

I agree very well to what Pygmalion has stated, some Muslims use the name of Islam and god to create their own regimes. Islam is about faith, believing in god and the five pillars of Islam, but just like any other religion, not all Muslims follow the rulings of the holy Quran, each has their own mistakes.
However, mistakes such as talking about people [ 7ash ] which is a huge deal in Islam, won't make you a non-Muslim, However, bombing innocent people will, or as Pygmalion said taking advantage of people under Islam.

[Giselle]

What everyone above said is good and correct.

To add to this, a muslim is not/can't be a muslim just by name. It's not enough just to say the shahadatain (there is only one God and Mohammed -saw- is his messenger) and that's it. One has to have el Neya (intention) to actually be a true muslim. Also a muslim has to believe that islam is the true religon, believe in the Quran, must obey God and the tasks he asks from us (Praying, fasting, giving zakat, hajj), etc.

Hope this makes sense...*thinking*

[Arabian Princess]

Those sects like Ahmadiyah, Aghkhania, Bahaia…etc

Excellent post Pygmalion.

and lets not forget Nation of Islam, which bases its beleive on one something rejected Islamicly, that everyone is created Equal!!

People get confused when these sects call themeselves muslims. They associate them with mainstream Islam and it puts muslims in a position where they have to explain that thier practicies are nothing related to Islam!!

[Reluctant]

The desert arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to Allah,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." 49:14

This ayat was revealed about a group of bedouins who accepted Islam. There was a bad drought and the only way they could survive was to accept Islam and move to Madinah so they could have the support of the Muslim community. Thus, they accepted Islam so that they could survive, not out of conviction that Allah exists or that Muhammad was a prophet. This verse says, the bedouins are Muslims, however, they are not mumins (believers). Thus, it is possible to be a Muslim, but not a mumin. However, it is not possible to be a mumin, but not a Muslim. For instance, these bedouins verbally affirmed the shahada, prayed five times a day, fasted, etc. however, everyone knew that in their hearts they didn't have faith, they had just submitted externally to Islam and pledged allegiance to the Prophet and Muslim community in order to survive. Of course everyone will be judged by God in the next life, but for all intensive purposes, as long as someone externally appears to be Muslim in words and action, then judgment cannot be passed on them in this world. Just like how the Muslims knew that the bedouins were not mumins, but still accepted them and treated them as their brothers knowing that some of them might accept faith in their hearts--only Allah knows what's on the inside, we can only judge actions, God can only judge conviction and intentions.

[Pygmalion]

Excellent post Pygmalion.

and lets not forget Nation of Islam, which bases its beleive on one something rejected Islamicly, that everyone is created Equal!!

People get confused when these sects call themeselves muslims. They associate them with mainstream Islam and it puts muslims in a position where they have to explain that thier practicies are nothing related to Islam!!

Thanks AP,
When it comes to Nation of Islam, we rush to denounce them, maybe because of their horrible publicity in the west. Being racists is one thing but most of it is they way they mess with the basics.

I will except as Mulsims, those who have their beliefs based on some genuine merits, their way of understanding the Quran, their way of understanding the Hadith but to me, Aghakhan is a false prophet, there is no single verse or hadith that can be interpreted in away making him a prophet. Indeed, the whole theme proves otherwise explicitly and implicitly. And that is why there are two religions Islam and Christianity because Mohammed is not recognized as a prophet in Christianity and his teachings are not considered divine like we do.

[Pygmalion]

The desert arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to Allah,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." 49:14

This ayat was revealed about a group of bedouins who accepted Islam. There was a bad drought and the only way they could survive was to accept Islam and move to Madinah so they could have the support of the Muslim community. Thus, they accepted Islam so that they could survive, not out of conviction that Allah exists or that Muhammad was a prophet. This verse says, the bedouins are Muslims, however, they are not mumins (believers). Thus, it is possible to be a Muslim, but not a mumin. However, it is not possible to be a mumin, but not a Muslim. For instance, these bedouins verbally affirmed the shahada, prayed five times a day, fasted, etc. however, everyone knew that in their hearts they didn't have faith, they had just submitted externally to Islam and pledged allegiance to the Prophet and Muslim community in order to survive. Of course everyone will be judged by God in the next life, but for all intensive purposes, as long as someone externally appears to be Muslim in words and action, then judgment cannot be passed on them in this world. Just like how the Muslims knew that the bedouins were not mumins, but still accepted them and treated them as their brothers knowing that some of them might accept faith in their hearts--only Allah knows what's on the inside, we can only judge actions, God can only judge conviction and intentions.
Ba7ith
We do not have to hate them, but we have every right to preserve what our religion is. You are Muslim if you maintain a minimum of well-known beliefs, basically the pillar of Islam and the pillars of Iman and the so called in the Islamic Fiqh, ma olima min al-deen bitharoorah i.e the part of the sharia that is considered as a necessity to be known and recognized by every single Muslim.
I do not believe in Mutaa, but those who do (shia) they back their belif with some understanding of verses. But having an additional prophet cannot be perceived/understood/conjectured/implied/extrapolated from any verse in the book, indeed it is an explicit contradiction to what is being said in Quran.
I don’t hate an Ahmadi but I cannot call him a Muslim because he does not satisfy the basic requirements.

[Jeff]

I am still trying to find out if there is an AGREED set of minimum requirements.

This thread is very interesting in getting a feel for what different Muslims think the standards should be. But I can't get a fix on what authority one goes on in deciding whether this or that person is or is not a Muslim.

For example, Arby says you have to accept the Ahadith.

But which ones? Some Muslims accept this collection but not that one.

Other Muslims feel free to reject this hadith or that hadith or any number of bunches of ahadith. And according to sophis, it seems that Muslim scholars now feel free to reject strong ahadith from accepted collections if they feel they are shaky on other grounds.

So if you can reject some or many, why not most or all? Does everyone agree with her that Quran Only Muslims are not Muslims?

So, for an outsider like me, it's VERY confusing!

I can't see any big difference between accepting infallible guides as the Shia do and accepting a new non-law bearing prophet as the Ahmaddiya do. Especially since they seem to be able to cite ibn Arabi and other Sunni scholars that prophets after Mohammed are possible.

On the other hand, a new prophet or guide, even if he isn't law bearing, FEELS like a pretty significant departure. Which is why the Ahmaddiya say you guys aren't Muslims.

It's all a muddle in my brain... And I'm not easily muddled.

But thanks for trying. I appreciate it! :)

[Threadlike]

^That's the first time I hear of 'Qura'n Only' Mulims...I mean, if the Qura'n itself says, 'Listen to the prophet', then how is it logical to not listen to the book you believe in?

Poor Jeff, he opened this thread and he got confused even more :p

The way Muslims are differs. If you have every Muslim on the planet declaring Mohammed to be the final prophet except a few thousands here and there claiming they are Muslims through Ahmadiyya, Baha'iya, etc., that's the same case as having Mormons calling themselves Christians while still having Mormon 'temples'. Doesn't make sense at all...The Baha'iya always refer to themselves as Bahai's not Muslims, their religion IS the Baha'iya, unlike the Ahmadiyya. However, I yet have to hear any Sunni or Shi'a scholar or anybody from any mainstream and accepted sect say that Ahmadiyya are Muslims.

From my understanding:
The largest denomination of Islam is Sunni. Followed by those are the Shi'a. The Shi'a, like the Sunni, believe in the Qura'n and the Sunna as authentic sources of legislation + the actions of Ahl al Bayt (the members of the house of the prophet PBUH). They do not believe in any particular connection with Allah SWT after the death of the prophet PBUH so far as I know and understand. Many a time the Shi'a are portrayed badly with myths and stories surrounding their beliefs and actions; absolute garbage. The Shi'a I met are DEFINITELY adherents of the same Islam I follow though with a few alterations in the practice. Shi'a Muslims included some of the brightest Muslims the world has ever seen including Ibn Seena and Al Farabi.

One other thing to mention now is the idea of Sahih Sunna. For the record, sunna = actions of the prophet and hadith = sayings of the prophet. No scholar will refute a Sahih hadith or Sunna having an authentic chain of narration unless he has very very valid reasons, e.g: the hadith does not match the Qura'nic stance, the hadith was for a particular incident only that was forbidden later, etc. Sunni and Shi'a have different hadith books they believe are authentic. I have no idea to what extent the hadith in the books are similar, perhaps one of our Shi'a members can tell us a bit more! Sunni Muslims themselves have a wide selection including Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sahih al Tirmithy and many others.

To sum up:
To be a MUSLIM whether by Sunni or Shi'a standard or by any simple standard looking at the Qura'n and the SAHIH Sunna you have to:
1) Believe in Allah and His absolute oneness and His nature as described in Surat al Ikhlas.
2) Believe in Mohammed PBUH as His LAST and FINAL prophet of God and the Qura'n as the LAST and FINAL complete and ONLY AUTHENTIC word of God.
3) Believe in the six articles of faith.
4) Put them into practice through the five pillars of Islam.
5) Adhere to hadiths that are Sahih and if you doubt them check them again with scholars who are professional in the matter.
6) Since scholars will always say 'Allahu A'alm' ('God knows best') it is only sense that if you follow a consensus of scholars on a matter, you may be right and may be wrong. But Allah SWT will not put you in Hell if you have done the best of your effort to seek the truth as a Muslim.

[Jeff]

All this makes a lot of sense, Threadlike, and it sort of FEELS right...like a clarification of what Muslims in general believe and have believed. Certainly, the comparison with Mormonism seems correct in FEELING to me. If you compared the Mormons to the Alawites or the Alevi, rather than the Ahmaddiya, it seems you would be closer to the mark, since in practical terms, Ahmadi SEEM much more like Muslims than those guys.

It still leaves me with some questions, but I think I'll let them rest. My questions start to feel less like asking and more like pushing and I don't like that...

On the Quran Alone movement, there are various branches. But if you are curious about why they reject the Ahadith and what their view are, here are some websites:

http://www.quranic.org/

http://submission.org/hadith/