PARIS–The bride said she was a virgin. When her new husband discovered that was a lie, he went to court to annul the marriage – and a French judge agreed.

French minister under fire in virgin marriage case

Some women ministers in the French government have called the court's ruling "a real fatwa against the emancipation of women" and "a ruling handed down in Kandahar"

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/437510
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080605.FRANCE05/TPStory/TPInternational/Europe/

Government should not interfere with court.

He has the right, she lied to him. Just like if a woman marries a man and finds out he's having an affair, she has all the right to divorce. Why does everything have to be diverted into a political issue I don't know!

The argument is over the reason given?

What happened to good ole' 'irreconcilable differences'?

What about the man was he a virgin?

OOh how nice...i think there is some hope left out there :D

How difficult is it to find a virgin wife in that part of the world?

^^^Or a virgin husband.

ice tea...U like to generalize....thats Not scientific and rational at ALL!

Well, of course NONE of these stories talk about the essential question:

What does French law say about representations beforehand and how the affect the marriage contract?

I swear: Journalists... sigh!

ice tea...U like to generalize....thats Not scientific and rational at ALL!

I didn't generalize, that was a question. :)

marianna, you are right, but the topic about virgin wife.

HOW did the husband determine the woman was not a virgin ?

My guess is that she admitted it. How else could it be established if she insisted she was?

Even a French court isn't going to regard a broken hymen as proof of anything.

I don't know why, but I'm starting to feel sorry for the woman. Why would she lie if she knew her husband was the type who would want to see proof of her being a virgin? Can't get that. There must be something that isn't shared.

Any records of what the woman says about this?

I agree with you UmKhalid and cannot even imagine what her heart is going through or her family. Sad.....I wonder how this all came to being?

I don't know why, but I'm starting to feel sorry for the woman. Why would she lie if she knew her husband was the type who would want to see proof of her being a virgin? Can't get that. There must be something that isn't shared.

Any records of what the woman says about this?

Well, here's something from an actual news story that actually does a little bit of reporting:

The case, which had previously gone unreported, involved an engineer in his 30s, named as Mr X, who married Ms Y, a student nurse in her 20s, in 2006. The wedding night party was still under way at the family’s home in Roubaix when the groom came down from the bedroom complaining that his bride was not a virgin. He could not display the blood-stained sheet that is traditionally exhibited as proof of the bride’s “purity”.

Mr X went to court the following morning and was granted a annulment on the grounds that his bride had deceived him on “one of the essential elements” of the marriage. In disgrace with both families, she acknowledged that she had led her groom to believe that she was a virgin when she had already had sexual intercourse. She did not oppose the annulment.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4034908.ece

Oh wow :p

But ... WHY! What was going on in her mind that made her lie about this? Was she hoping for a miracle?? :os

Weird cases in this world.

Oh wow :p

But ... WHY! What was going on in her mind that made her lie about this? Was she hoping for a miracle?? :os

Weird cases in this world.

Who knows? :( Maybe she didn't know he'd do the bloody sheet routine. Maybe she thought he'd be too ashamed to tell anyone and she could get into his good graces.

Maybe she was going to deny it, but then thought better of it.

Poor girl.

I didn't think about her. But you made me start.

See how good you are for me? :)

i guess these people aren't french....

What would happen if there was no bloody sheet and yet she was a virgin (it happens, you know).

What would happen if there was no bloody sheet and yet she was a virgin (it happens, you know).
the judge should have sent him 'back home'. many girls don't bleed and they are still virgins.

ROFL !!!
I never thought you were gonna talk abt it .. lol
You can ask divorce in France .. not matter what .. the judge can't go against you decision s/he has no right to force you to live with someone you don't love!
so i totally agree on the decision, knowing this guy was a Muslim, I can understand he expected his wife to be a virgin.

Lol he did the right thing :D .

she acknowledged that she had led her groom to believe that she was a virgin when she had already had sexual intercourse. She did not oppose the annulment.


I think the girl admitted she's not a virgin. Anyway, this man being a muslim i expect what he did. But I heard that westerners in general prefer to marry a girl with experience, who passed ex relationships. How true is that ?

Lol he did the right thing :D .



I think the girl admitted she's not a virgin. Anyway, this man being a muslim i expect what he did. But I heard that westerners in general prefer to marry a girl with experience, who passed ex relationships. How true is that ?

Sounds like propaganda.

I never heard anyone express a preference one way or the other.

Sounds like propaganda.

I never heard anyone express a preference one way or the other.
same here. youlike a person regardless of their past sexual history.
i mean if that were the case, many men (of any *particular* faith) wouldn't be married nowadays.

haha .. guys .. come and live here .. what el rey is saying isn't false ..
And both of them were Muslims

But who cares about this issue anyway ? honestly ? :XD:

Sounds like propaganda.

I never heard anyone express a preference one way or the other.

Well, I heard this from a group of British and Americans here in Oman. Maybe they were joking I don't know but Nico is connfirming this. And they told me that If a youn boy or girl doesn't have a gf/bf after their 16s or 18s then they may have issues and their parents start to worry about that.

In American movies,, the virgin girl and boy is described as the dumb un wanted one. While the girl who had sex with many guys and the guy who did the same with girls are described as the popular and lovely ones. That's why youngs try their best to get a gf/bf and lose their virginity to show off.

Are virgins dumb in the west's eyes ? Is this true since movies reflect the real life situations ?

Well, I heard this from a group of British and Americans here in Oman. Maybe they were joking I don't know but Nico is connfirming this. And they told me that If a youn boy or girl doesn't have a gf/bf after their 16s or 18s then they may have issues and their parents start to worry about that.

In American movies,, the virgin girl and boy is described as the dumb un wanted one. While the girl who had sex with many guys and the guy who did the same with girls are described as the popular and lovely ones. That's why youngs try their best to get a gf/bf and lose their virginity to show off.

Are virgins dumb in the west's eyes ? Is this true since movies reflect the real life situations ?
there's a huge drive in schools and within youth groups over here to encourage kids to 'save themselves'. not only for religious issues, but for psychological and health ones. the way to do it is to empower them so they don't succumb to peer pressure. over here, a girl who sleeps around is not looked upon favourably, nor does a guy who sleeps around.

By saving themselves you mean not to lose their virginity ? Not having sex before marriage or what ?

Here, a girl over 16 and still a virgin is an "unwanted" girl. Same goes with guys.
It's not a joke, it's the way it goes, unfortunately. And the girl, in here, is "classify".
Like if she comes at school with messy hair .. people will say she doesn't care about herself. If she haves an intercourse the first night with a guy, the girl will be seen as an easy girl or sometimes as a sl*t (if it's not the first time). As for guys .. well .. no one says anything lol

By saving themselves you mean not to lose their virginity ? Not having sex before marriage or what ?
saving themselves until they meet their life partner. of course, in schools marriage is talked about, but not everybody gets married. so have sex when you settle down in a life long committment. is that good enough?

She should thank her lucky stars she is getting away from this crazy SOB now.

Can only imagine the crap she would have to put up with married to this guy.

Good ridence ... judge in long run did her a huge favor :hyper:

She should thank her lucky stars she is getting away from this crazy SOB now.

Can only imagine the crap she would have to put up with married to this guy.

Good ridence ... judge in long run did her a huge favor :hyper:
yeps i read in another paper that she does not want to appeal :hyper:
she should tell everybody 'he was lying, i WAS a virgin, but ......

haha .. guys .. come and live here .. what el rey is saying isn't false ..
El Rey said "the west" not France.

Well, I heard this from a group of British and Americans here in Oman. Maybe they were joking I don't know but Nico is connfirming this. And they told me that If a youn boy or girl doesn't have a gf/bf after their 16s or 18s then they may have issues and their parents start to worry about that.
That's true (for boys), but that wasn't your original claim.
In American movies,, the virgin girl and boy is described as the dumb un wanted one. While the girl who had sex with many guys and the guy who did the same with girls are described as the popular and lovely ones. That's why youngs try their best to get a gf/bf and lose their virginity to show off.
dunno what movies you're watching (http://forums.404daily.com/style_emoticons/default/naughty17hs.gif) but girls who sleep around are not usually considered "lovely", that's why girls are always complaining that if we have lots of partners we're called studs but if they do they're called ****s.

There's peer pressure to have sex, but almost the whole of society puts pressure on girls to not have many partners. Buuuut many of them are overcoming that now.

Here, a girl over 16 and still a virgin is an "unwanted" girl. Same goes with guys.
It's not a joke, it's the way it goes, unfortunately. And the girl, in here, is "classify".
Like if she comes at school with messy hair .. people will say she doesn't care about herself. If she haves an intercourse the first night with a guy, the girl will be seen as an easy girl or sometimes as a sl*t (if it's not the first time). As for guys .. well .. no one says anything lol

Which is very sad really. chasity become something shameful these days. I just can't grasp the idea of it .

saving themselves until they meet their life partner. of course, in schools marriage is talked about, but not everybody gets married. so have sex when you settle down in a life long committment. is that good enough?

Good enough explanation which is: Kids marriage is good but you also can have sex whenever you find love and feel for commitment. Marriage is't a must. In my opinion and I know you disagree with it, this encourages them not to get marry but only to have sex which means having pleasure without being responsible as a husband.

read my post carefully before assuming Shei :cute:

^Malta is a very catholic country, 98% catholic, but you can't teach one thing to everybody. so commitment, be it if you cohabitate or if you get married.

El Rey said "the west" not France.
.

Nico is a French guy + I heard it from both Americans and British. I guess this makes them the west.

That's true (for boys), but that wasn't your original claim.

dunno what movies you're watching (http://forums.404daily.com/style_emoticons/default/naughty17hs.gif) but girls who sleep around are not usually considered "lovely", that's why girls are always complaining that if we have lots of partners we're called studs but if they do they're called ****s.

There's peer pressure to have sex, but almost the whole of society puts pressure on girls to not have many partners. Buuuut many of them are overcoming that now

Tell me one American movie doesn't involve relationships :bored: . The last sentense you said explain it all :D .

yeps i read in another paper that she does not want to appeal :hyper:
she should tell everybody 'he was lying, i WAS a virgin, but his winky was too small to break my hymen'.True ... his stroke may be a tad bit short.

Don't you gals hate it when that happens :p

read my post carefully before assuming Shei :cute:
You're not making sense, sorry.
Nico is a French guy + I heard it from both Americans and British. I guess this makes them the west.

Tell me one American movie doesn't involve relationships :bored: . The last sentense you said explain it all :D .
So now you've reduced your claim to- "movies have relationships". it's getting smaller every post.

Poor thing :D you can't accept reality ? sad.

You're not making sense, sorry.

So now you've reduced your claim to- "movies have relationships". it's getting smaller every post.

Which part of the west you didn't understand ? Anyway, no need now to explain cos I got the picture already. Crystal clear ;) . Thanks Nico for giving such honest infos unlike some others *_^

Poor thing :D you can't accept reality ? sad.
What reality? Are you the spokesperson for the west or can I have my own opinion?
Which part of the west you didn't understand ?
I see you're just garbling nonsense to save face now.

the opinion also depends on which crowd you mix with. if all your friends sleep around, that's your norm, and that's your crowd. if your friends wait until they are in a stable relationship, you get a different opinion about your peers.

What reality? Are you the spokesperson for the west or can I have my own opinion?

I see you're just garbling nonsense to save face now.


Whatever :zzz:

Whatever :zzz:
do you honestly think that all girls and guys in the west sleep around?

the opinion also depends on which crowd you mix with. if all your friends sleep around, that's your norm, and that's your crowd. if your friends wait until they are in a stable relationship, you get a different opinion about your peers.

I have many friends who sleep around and this idea didn't even come close to my norm. But I agree some friends do affect on others.

do you honestly think that all girls and guys in the west sleep around?

No of course. I was just talking about it generally. Familiarity of it in the west. I do believe there are still guys and girls who are chaste and have different opinion about having sex before marriage. But generally speaking, it's not that commmon.

I have a friend from the Middle East and sad to say he told me how Arab women can be really fast. Then he got into Moroccan women. I think it depends on who you hang out with also. If you hang out with people who go clubbing as oppose to men and women who attend Christian youth group meetings and events you see 2 different crowds. Basing one's perceptions on a small # of people does a huge disservice on those individuals who do not fit what a person may consider the norm.

No of course. I was just talking about it generally. Familiarity of it in the west. I do believe there are still guys and girls who are chaste and have different opinion about having sex before marriage. But generally speaking, it's not that commmon.
well, all the arab guys i see coming to malta come only for one thing...ok two.
sex and a passport.
i don't judge all arabs by the guys who come over here though. :)

Whatever :zzz:
we need an age limit on these threads to keep you out dude.
do you honestly think that all girls and guys in the west sleep around?
that wasn't even the claim, these are his claims-

"I heard that westerners in general prefer to marry a girl with experience, who passed ex relationships."

"In American movies,, the virgin girl and boy is described as the dumb un wanted one. While the girl who had sex with many guys and the guy who did the same with girls are described as the popular and lovely ones."

And I know some Arabs who do the same as well. I personally, have a friend who was bragging about spending more than 3000 Rial ( About 9000 ) Dollar in Morocco for girls and drinking. That action really made me sick and I felt sorry for his ignorance indeed and I told him this in the face. You are a sick guy. But, this action is not familiar and when I say not familiar it means not suported by the majority of the society, yet it's condemned. I didn't generalise anything about the west. Am just talking about the majority consider having sex and girlfriends normal there. I know not all of the westerners think this way and our living example is Jeff who got married to a virgin.

I agree with you marianna, friends have big influence and Arab girls or guys are not an exeption.

Here is one thing about America that some might find either ironic or are surprised--in regards to 2 girls caught kissing at a baseball game:

We have a strict non-discrimination policy at the Seattle Mariners and at Safeco Field, and when we do enforce the code of conduct it is based on behavior, not on the identity of those involved," Hale said.

The code of conduct -- announced before each game -- specifically mentions public displays of affection that are "not appropriate in a public, family setting." Hale said those standards are based on what a "reasonable person" would find inappropriate.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/05/seattle.kiss.ap/index.html

Quite obviously quite a few Americans do believe in controlling oneselves. It is better not to put blanket statements on people and their cultures.

we need an age limit on these threads to keep you out dude.

that wasn't even the claim, these are his claims-

"I heard that westerners in general prefer to marry a girl with experience, who passed ex relationships."

"In American movies,, the virgin girl and boy is described as the dumb un wanted one. While the girl who had sex with many guys and the guy who did the same with girls are described as the popular and lovely ones."

Age limit you mean something like Eleven years old ? :p

Dude, can't you just get over it ? You gave your opinion about it. Nico did too which I heard the same from other westerners which is the same showed in movies. Simple and what's upsetinng you abouut it ?

And I know some Arabs who do the same as well. I personally, have a friend who was bragging about spending more than 3000 Rial ( About 9000 ) Dollar in Morocco for girls and drinking. That action really made me sick and I felt sorry for his ignorance indeed and I told him this in the face. You are a sick guy. But, this action is not familiar and when I say not familiar it means not suported by the majority of the society, yet it's condemned. I didn't generalise anything about the west. Am just talking about the majority consider having sex and girlfriends normal there. I know not all of the westerners think this way and our living example is Jeff who got married to a virgin.

I agree with you marianna, friends have big influence and Arab girls or guys are not an exeption.


wow. when i said that myself earlier (about being in the right crowd) you just yawned.

wow. when i said that myself earlier (about being in the right crowd) you just yawned.

I was yawning at shai's post not yours. You should've read what came after the yawning post. My reply to you about friends influence.

I would have done the same exact thing. In my opinion, lying in such things is not tolerated. I'd respect an honest woman more than a lying woman

Age limit you mean something like Eleven years old ? :p

Dude, can't you just get over it ? You gave your opinion about it. Nico did too which I heard the same from other westerners which is the same showed in movies. Simple and what's upsetinng you abouut it ?

We have moved past it, now we're talking about you being 11, but for minerva I copied your claims so that she doesn't let you off the hook.

off topics have been deleted, please stick to the topic

Here, a girl over 16 and still a virgin is an "unwanted" girl. Same goes with guys.
It's not a joke, it's the way it goes, unfortunately. And the girl, in here, is "classify".
Like if she comes at school with messy hair .. people will say she doesn't care about herself. If she haves an intercourse the first night with a guy, the girl will be seen as an easy girl or sometimes as a sl*t (if it's not the first time). As for guys .. well .. no one says anything lol


Here is a guy who tells it like it is.

OK, one thing I like to say here is that.

1. The bedsheet thing is purely tradition is some Arab countries, nothing to do with Islam. Even some Christian Arabs practice it.

2. If a girl does not bleed, it doesnt mean she is not virgin, there are some extreme cases where a hymen is broken during labor.

3. In Islam, you cannot accuse someone of having had sex without any proof, the only way if she admitted herself.

(Oh how much I :heart: this religion of mine)

Men need to learn and understand more about religion, and stop these wrong accusations.

^ And may I add: If he accuses her without any proof (As in four witnesses who saw her in that situation), then he receives 80 lashes.

So unless she admitted, he should receive 80 lashes.

Oh c'mon ! 80 lashes ? he didn't go to see another girl !
slap him 80 times .. no problem.. and it's better :p