Some people say that music is forbidden, some don't. What do you think and why? :p

I don't think it is .. since most of the members do listen to it .. lol :p

There are different sayings about music. Some are strict about it and say it's all Haram, Ibadhi sect. Some say it's the type of music which determines if it's forbidden or not.

I'm not sure if what I'm saying is right but people say why music is forbidden in Islam, not from the music it self, however what the music does to you for example listen to a nice romantic song you want that to happen to you and it creates this whole whole lovy dovy mood and etc etc..

I know it's haram, because I've been told a couple of times, and was given some a7adeeth (translate?) as proof. However, I didn't recite those a7adeeth in order to share 'em.

I'm a type of person whom balances everything, and do what my heart feel is right, because the different sects in Islam have different ways of interpreting verses of the Qura'an or a7deeth, as they're filled with ambiguity. I'm a Abadhi, but I don't consider myself one, as I follow what I think is right, I pick bits and pieces from diverse sects, depending on which one I'm more comfortable with. If you ask me about music being haram, I won't give you a solid answer, I'd say it depends. The way you do things all depends on the way you treat it. For instance, if you know your limits and listen to music just to have fun and to entertain yourself, then I'd say it's ok. On the contrary, if you listen to music and go off clubbing and dancing inappropriately in front of the opposite sex, then I'd say it's haram and detrimental to one's lifestyle and religion. Therefore, it all goes down to how you treat 'music' and how do you behave. If it affects you into doing actions that are out of order, then yes it IS haram. Then again, this is just my opinion. Ergo, not a fact and therefore not necessarily true.

One of my family members does not listen to music or attend weddings.
The reason i have heard from her, is that music is not haram without the melody ;s Its something with the tune or melody, so someone singing without the instruments etc is ok.
And she said its haram to use allah[god] mashallah[translate?] etc in songs.

Everyone else in my family enjoys music ;p so thats as far as ive heard !!

Well, there is music in the call to prayer...so there must be some exceptions anyway...

^ yea during the athan [prayer call] sometimes they play certain music on the radio , im not a religious expert buut i think its the wooden flute and something else thats allowed? im not too sure ;s

Yes, that too.

But I was just referring to the fact that it is CHANTED. And chanting is singing, which is music.

^ true, thats why i think .. i was told that singing is fine so long as its not with heavy instruments etc.
there are also anasheed [ islamic educational chantings ... better translation anyone?]
Does anyone have the actual religious details to that ? ;D

I never thought about it because i love music ... So do most people i know ...

Actually, it is the flute that is expressively haram. Apparently, music with only "daff "(drums and beats) are Islamically appropriate, anything else is forbidden.

Personally, I think it depends on the music itself if it is forbidden or not. I am sure most songs by 50 cent would be prohibited simply because he uses vulgar language and talks about sex, women and their private parts as if it is food (or more specifically candy :rolleyes:) and that goes against 7ayaa2 and modesty that a Muslim should have. However, I don't see how some songs are haram; some songs do preach good stuff, spreads love and makes you feel good. There is where I think listening to music is perfectly fine. Also Superbia raised a good point. If listening to music is not done in moderation and it takes you away from your obligation to God, then as expected, it you be haram on you to listen to music excessively.

My friend had a Music teacher once and we were discussing this topic. While he was conveying his opinion on the subject, he raised a glass. Then he wisely said "Music is like this glass. If I drank from this glass right now, it would be totally okay to do so according to Islam. However, once somebody drinks alcohol from this glass, it is no longer acceptable for me to use the glass. Music is like that. It is what you do with it that determines whether it is acceptable to listen to it or not". That made perfect sense to me and as you can see, that is what I mostly base my humble opinion on.

Actually, it is the flute that is expressively haram. Apparently, music with only "daff "(drums and beats) are Islamically appropriate, anything else is forbidden.

Isnt the nai [flute] what they use on Tv and Radios during athan? How is it haram?



My friend had a Music teacher once and we were discussing this topic. While he was conveying his opinion on the subject, he raised a glass. Then he wisely said "Music is like this glass. If I drank from this glass right now, it would be totally okay to do so according to Islam. However, once somebody drinks alcohol from this glass, it is no longer acceptable for me to use the glass. Music is like that. It is what you do with it that determines whether it is acceptable to listen to it or not". That made perfect sense to me and as you can see, that is what I mostly base my humble opinion on.

Loved the glass theory :angel:

Personally, if I could judge, I would say that it's okay to listen to music because there's no harm in that.

Yes, that too.

But I was just referring to the fact that it is CHANTED. And chanting is singing, which is music.

Ibadhis don't chant while calling for the payer.

And I don't think calling for the prayer in that way considered singing.

Isnt the nai [flute] what they use on Tv and Radios during athan? How is it haram?

Isn't mizmar a flute? If it is, then yeah, it is haram. I am doubting my Arabic now :os

Personally, if I could judge, I would say that it's okay to listen to music because there's no harm in that.


Is there a harm in sipping a glass of red wine during dinner?

Is there a harm in two consenting adults getting intimate?

I am glad u used the word 'personally'

Isn't mizmar a flute? If it is, then yeah, it is haram. I am doubting my Arabic now :os

im doubting my religious knowledge altogether man, im gonna get this checked with my big sister ... need some government schooling information ..

Is there a harm in sipping a glass of red wine during dinner?

Is there a harm in two consenting adults getting intimate?

I am glad u used the word 'personally'

Personally, I think you can answer the questions you asked yourself.

Like El rey said, there is different schools of thoughts regarding music .. some say all is haram except the Daff, others say the wording makes the difference, and the music itself is not haram. Shia for example dont consider music haram but the romantic word associated with it.

Sometimes music/songs talk about God/Islam...etc, for example Outlandish, Sami Yousuf...they send their message through music because they know many people listen. So is that haram/forbidden aswell?

I think it's just the words...a song that is made up of swearing and/or talks about drugs, sex...etc. So music that could have a bad influence on people that listen to it.

Halal as long as it doesn't prevent you from obeying/praying Allah.

[_l_] Khonag.

I think it depends on the music and how you use it. Some people abuse the usage. Then it'll be Haram.

psalm 149 tells people to praise the lord with song and dance, tambourine and harp.

do you have psalms in the Koran?

Actually, it is the flute that is expressively haram. Apparently, music with only "daff "(drums and beats) are Islamically appropriate, anything else is forbidden.

Personally, I think it depends on the music itself if it is forbidden or not. I am sure most songs by 50 cent would be prohibited simply because he uses vulgar language and talks about sex, women and their private parts as if it is food (or more specifically candy :rolleyes:) and that goes against 7ayaa2 and modesty that a Muslim should have. However, I don't see how some songs are haram; some songs do preach good stuff, spreads love and makes you feel good. There is where I think listening to music is perfectly fine. Also Superbia raised a good point. If listening to music is not done in moderation and it takes you away from your obligation to God, then as expected, it you be haram on you to listen to music excessively.

My friend had a Music teacher once and we were discussing this topic. While he was conveying his opinion on the subject, he raised a glass. Then he wisely said "Music is like this glass. If I drank from this glass right now, it would be totally okay to do so according to Islam. However, once somebody drinks alcohol from this glass, it is no longer acceptable for me to use the glass. Music is like that. It is what you do with it that determines whether it is acceptable to listen to it or not". That made perfect sense to me and as you can see, that is what I mostly base my humble opinion on.


I personally believe that music (if you can call it that) by 50 cents should be deemed haram, harmful and banned for human consumption.

psalm 149 tells people to praise the lord with song and dance, tambourine and harp.

do you have psalms in the Koran?

The Psalms (Zabur) of David as well as the Gospel and the Torah, all in their "original, uncorrupted" form are recognized by Muslim as revealed by God. I guess that means that you can't use particular verses to prove points reliably.

But still, it's an interesting question since the Psalms are in themselves songs or hymns to God and thus in our understanding Music. Hard to imagine even an "uncorrupted" version of them that would not be that.

Even 'Islamic Nasheeds' have music in them now. I don't believe they use 'human vocals', it's so a piano being used. It amazes me how those songs are considered to be alright because they are 'Munshids: Religious singers', but other songs are not, even though the others songs have 70% less music in them.

I used to be quite strict about Music. I still prefer listening to Islamic nasheed, but after seeing how 'Islamic Nasheed' are becoming to be and STILL be considered holy for some reason I don't understand, I loosened up.

At the end, I think we could agree that the words, whether with or without music, determine if what is being sung is Haram or not.

Muslims can be complicated some times :XD:

This thread is really good.

The Psalms (Zabur) of David as well as the Gospel and the Torah, all in their "original, uncorrupted" form are recognized by Muslim as revealed by God. I guess that means that you can't use particular verses to prove points reliably.

But still, it's an interesting question since the Psalms are in themselves songs or hymns to God and thus in our understanding Music. Hard to imagine even an "uncorrupted" version of them that would not be that.

As Jeff stated, The Bible, the Torah, the Zabur (also known as the Psalms) and the Qura'n are the four scriptures Muslims believe were delivered to man. Out of those, Muslims believe, that the Qura'n is the only one that is uncorrupted and original...Being Muslim we believe they WERE once authentic word of God but are not so ANYMORE.

As Jeff stated, The Bible, the Torah, the Zabur (also known as the Psalms) and the Qura'n are the four scriptures Muslims believe were delivered to man. Out of those, Muslims believe, that the Qura'n is the only one that is uncorrupted and original...Being Muslim we believe they WERE once authentic word of God but are not so ANYMORE.

What does Zabur mean in Arabic? Because "Psalms" means "Holy Songs" in Greek and it's a translation of the original Hebrew "Tehillim" which means the same thing.

Okay, after searching online:

Zabur, is derived from the word: Zubur, literally meaning: Pieces.

But now, pieces of what? What kind of pieces? I'm puzzled.

Pieces like pieces of music? Or just pieces pieces, like pieces of glass or pieces of pie?

From what I know:
It's the Arabic equivalent from the Hebrew 'zimra' meaning 'song' or 'music'. It goes along with the Arabic word for pipe, 'mizmar' and in Arabic I've also heard the Zabur sometimes being called, Mazamir Dawoood.

People like Yusuf Ali translate the Zabur as the Psalms when it is mentioned in the Qura'n:
We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.
--The Holy Qura'n, (Al Nisa'a/The Women, Chapter 4), verse 163.

From what I know:
It's the Arabic equivalent from the Hebrew 'zimra' meaning 'song' or 'music'. It goes along with the Arabic word for pipe, 'mizmar' and in Arabic I've also heard the Zabur sometimes being called, Mazamir Dawoood.

And this is why I asked.

Because if Muslims believe that David wrote Songs to God, even if they got corrupted afterward, and if those songs were inspired by God Himself and blessed by Him, then surely not all music can be bad.

At least that's my outsider's primitive understanding.

But maybe that sort of music isn't considered "music" as Ice Tea says.

But now, pieces of what? What kind of pieces? I'm puzzled.

Pieces like pieces of music? Or just pieces pieces, like pieces of glass or pieces of pie?

From tafseer Ibn Kathir:


Zubur, meaning Scriptures. Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Ad-Dahhak and others said: Zubur is the plural of Zabur, and the Arabs say, Zaburtul-Kitab meaning, "I wrote the book.'' Allah says:And everything they have done is noted in (their) Records (of deeds) ﴿Zubur﴾) (54:52)

So Zubur means books.

Thanks for the question! I wanted to explain but didn't know how, what I found was something VERY interesting.

The Zabur, which was given to Dawud, are pieces of the Quran we have between our hands now. Zabur: Pieces. Pieces of what? Of the Quran.

There are 'Suras' of the Quran in the Bible, Torah, and Zabur, because there is a hadeeth that goes: "Shall I tell you the best three chapters 'Suras' in the Bible, Torah, Zabur and the Qur'an?" ... and then the Prophet :PBUH: reports three chapters in the Qur'an! The last three Suras. (Reported by Ahmed, Hadith Number: 16696)

So in the Qur'an it is called 'Zabur', because it is a piece of the Qur'an. Like the last three Suras:

Al- Naas (The People)
Al- Falaq (The Dawn)
Al- Ikhlaas (Loyalty)

Now who's right!
UmKhalid tells us Zabur means pieces.
From my reading Zabur comes from the Hebrew 'zimra'.
Now IceTea's saying Zabur means books.

On the word Threadlike shared: Mizmaar, which means pipe or flute.

The Prophet :PBUH: was listening to a man with a beautiful voice reading the Qur'an and said: "He has been granted a Mizmaar from the Mizmaars of Dawud's family"

So saying 'He has been granted a Mizmaar' points to the beauty of the person's voice. A voice so beautiful it is like music.

We could all be right! At the end, these are just guesses people got to after studying the scriptures.

I will explain my part, the Zabur meaning Pieces.

[23:53] "But they cut off their religion among themselves into sects, each part rejoicing in that which is with them."

the word 'sects' in Arabic is: Zuburaa. (Pieces of something that is a whole. Religion is a whole and people cut themselves to pieces, into sects)

------

[18:96] Give me pieces of iron - till, when he had levelled up (the gap) between the cliffs, he said: Blow! - till, when he had made it a fire,he said: Bring me molten copper to pour thereon.

Give me the pieces of iron = Aatooni ZUBUR Al Hadeed.

On the word Threadlike shared: Mizmaar, which means pipe or flute.

The Prophet :PBUH: was listening to a man with a beautiful voice reading the Qur'an and said: "He has been granted a Mizmaar from the Mizmaars of Dawud's family"

So saying 'He has been granted a Mizmaar' points to the beauty of the person's voice. A voice so beautiful it is like music.

I think you are refering to this hadeeth:

1005- وعن أبي موسى الأشْعَرِيِّ رضيَ اللهُ عنهُ أنَّ رسولَ اللهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قالَ لهُ : « لَقَدْ أُوتِيتُ مِزْمَارَاً مِنْ مَزَامِيرِ آلِ دَاوُد » متفقٌ عليه .

وفي روايةٍ لمسلمٍ : أنَّ رسولَ اللهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وسَلَّم قالَ لهُ : « لَوْ رَأَيْتَنِي وَأَنَا أَسْتَمِعُ لِقِرَاءَتِكَ البارحَةَ ».



1005. Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said to him, "You have been given a Mizmar (sweet melodious voice) out of the Mazamir of Prophet Dawud (David).''
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

Commentary: Mizmar means flute but here it stands for tune and sweet voice. In the phrase Al-Dawud (PBUH), translated here `the family of Dawud,' the word Al is superfluous and what is in fact meant is Prophet Dawud. In any case

So there is a difference between Zabur and Mizmar.

And this is what JRR Tolkien did, his job as a scholar:

He was a "philologist". What we are doing is philology.

And out of his philology, he invented his own languages.

And out of those languages, he created a mythology.

And out of that mythology sprang a world.

And in that world, he set stories, especially "The Lord of the Rings".

Yes, that's the hadeeth. Thanks IceTea!

I will explain my part, the Zabur meaning Pieces.

[23:53] "But they cut off their religion among themselves into sects, each part rejoicing in that which is with them."

the word 'sects' in Arabic is: Zuburaa. (Pieces of something that is a whole. Religion is a whole and people cut themselves to pieces, into sects)

------

[18:96] Give me pieces of iron - till, when he had levelled up (the gap) between the cliffs, he said: Blow! - till, when he had made it a fire,he said: Bring me molten copper to pour thereon.

Give me the pieces of iron = Aatooni ZUBUR Al Hadeed.


Ahhh, good girl. This sounds accurate.

This is the thing to do, to collect up all the different uses for the word to get a good idea of its meaning.

A great start! :)

So this means there's hope for us in creating our own languages.

So this means there's hope for us in creating our own languages.

Also just the fascinating web of how languages work and develop and the surprising ways words relate to each other and affect each other.

[18:96] Give me pieces of iron - till, when he had levelled up (the gap) between the cliffs, he said: Blow! - till, when he had made it a fire,he said: Bring me molten copper to pour thereon.

Give me the pieces of iron = Aatooni ZUBUR Al Hadeed.


In arabic one word can have mnay meanings, in above verse you are right it means pieces. But here zubur is the plural of zubrah وَالزُّبُر جَمْع زُبْرَة and zubrah means piece. In the other verse Zubur is the plural of Zabur which means a book.

Jeff,
Jajapatata?

IceTea,
True, but all, at the end, refer to the same thing. For example, the same word can be used in different ways:

Juluus: Sitting
Jalsa: Gathering.
Jalasaat: Related meetings.
Majlis: Sitting/Living Room.

No not the same thing.

In arabic one word can have mnay meanings, in above verse you are right it means pieces. But here zubur is the plural of zubrah وَالزُّبُر جَمْع زُبْرَة and zubrah means piece. In the other verse Zubur is the plural of Zabur which means a book.

Well, there were no "books" back then. Just scrolls.

And a scroll couldn't hold a whole work. It had to be broken down into pieces.

So there's a reason to believe the words are related.

Jeff,
Jajapatata?



Quetzacoatl.

As salaamu aleykum, does anyone have any Ibadhi hadiths about music? Thanks.

The rule is:

عن أبي عبدالله النعمان بن بشير رضي الله عنهما قال : سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول : ( إن الحلال بيّن والحرام بيّن ، وبينهما أمور مشتبهات لا يعلمهن كثير من الناس ، فمن اتقى الشبهات فقد استبرأ لدينه وعرضه ، ومن وقع في الشبهات فقد وقع في الحرام ، كالراعي يرعى حول الحمى يوشك أن يرتع فيه ، ألا وأن لكل ملك حمى ، ألا وإن حمى الله محارمه ، إلا وإن في الجسد مضغة إذا صلحت صلح الجسد كله ، وإذا فسدت فسد الجسد كله ، ألا وهي القلب ) رواه البخاري و مسلم

Book 10 ,Number 3882:
Nu'man b. Bashir (Allah be pleased with him) reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon himn) as having said this (and Nu'man) pointed towards his ears with his fingers): What is lawful is evident and what is unlawful is evident, and in between them are the things doubtful which many people do not know. So he who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things indulges in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his animals round a preserve will soon pasture them in it. Beware, every king has a preserve, and the things God his declaced unlawful are His preserves. Beware, in the body there is a piece of flesh ; if it is sound, the whole body is sound and if it is corrupt the whole body is corrupt, and hearken it is the heart.



Even 'Islamic Nasheeds' have music in them now. I don't believe they use 'human vocals', it's so a piano being used. It amazes me how those songs are considered to be alright because they are 'Munshids: Religious singers', but other songs are not, even though the others songs have 70% less music in them.

I used to be quite strict about Music. I still prefer listening to Islamic nasheed, but after seeing how 'Islamic Nasheed' are becoming to be and STILL be considered holy for some reason I don't understand, I loosened up.

At the end, I think we could agree that the words, whether with or without music, determine if what is being sung is Haram or not.

In nasheed they use something called eyqa3.. these are not instruments, it's just some softwears are used to make the backgrounds.

There are some nasheeds where musical instruments were used like in Sami Usif nasheed of Al-mu3alim.. still many scholars do not approve such a thing.

In the ibadhi sect that's ofcourse is not tolerated. Even eyqa3 should not go out of the nasheed range or as Sh. Ahmed advised.

I truly believe that it all depends on the content of the music and how it effects your life and attitude that determines whether it's halal or haram, as long as it does not distract you from your main purpose in life, from god and does not corrupt you and change your attitude and behavior into a negative one then inshallah all should be fine.

I agree with NABHAN

It's funny how everyone came up with their own fatwa & became convinced by that lie. The rules regarding music in Islam are clear. If you still wish to listen to music Islam doesn't approve, do it anyway but without altering the religion. Be straightforward.

It's pathetic how humans believe what they want to believe.

It's funny how everyone came up with their own fatwa & became convinced by that lie. The rules regarding music in Islam are clear. If you still wish to listen to music Islam doesn't approve, do it anyway but without altering the religion. Be straightforward.

It's pathetic how humans believe what they want to believe.

It is clear to some scholars and its not clear to others .. Al Qaradhawi for example doesnt consider all music haram. Al Qaradhawi is a prominent sunni scholar.

here is a detailed fatwa that says that music is not haram .. you can go to the site to see the fatwa and question:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544202

I am not trying to say that this is what we should follow, its up to what feels right inside of you. Personally, I am still in the middle in this issue. At times I feel that YES, the music and songs of today are definatly haram. At others, I feel its not. Since there is not CLEAR disctinction if its haram or not, then I dont think we should judge anyone who says differently.

why do some people call enjoyable things haram?
i think music can never be haram because it's a natural thing. we have ears to listen and to discern between tones and pitches, notes and volume.
bird song, the waves, the wind through the trees....all those are sounds around us, all natural...you can create music just by listening and playing the sounds back on your instrument. if God meant music to be haram, he would have banished all these sounds from nature.
Just look at a newborn baby, you turn the music on, and a baby coos and listens attentively. some music is easier on the ear than other music.
God gave us a soul and a mind to create. he gave us talents to use and make them flourish, not to supress. If someone uses music to insult god, that's another matter.

The only instance I see music being haram is if it promotes sex or violence.

Blasting Ja Rule/busta rhymes or Marylin Manson/children of bodom/in flames is haram..
simply because the message delivered is against the islamic religion.. its also anti christ.. depends on what you listen to..

buuuut i tend to listen to these stuff anyways,
1) because the music is entertaining
2) because i want to know what message they're trying to deliver.. it all makes sense once you read the lyrics!!

peace v!

well not heavy metal..ugh..sometimes!!

anywhoooos!

:) well said, Metal music is 7aram VERY 7aram =)

Mainly death metal , black metal , oh yeah arabic music and pop music all are 7aram.