The ruling with regard to muslim women shaping their eyebrows is clear and that the woman is cursed by Allah for committing this sin.

Why do we found many muslim women taking this issue lightly?

^ Because Shia's allow shaping eye brows. When there's a conflict between sects, I tend to choose what makes sense to me.

Interesting view but you should look at the evidence not just what suits your desires.

Shia's also saying mut3a marraige is halal.

^ Okay good for them and anyone who wants to follow that :)

Some hadith's that are can be used as an 'evidence' to convince Sunnis and Ibadhies are not considered solid for Shia. and vice versa.

I don't see why they are cursed. It makes them look much more beautiful. I'd want my wife to look much more beautiful :think:

They are cursed because it is a sin, same as the person who is selling acohol also cursed.

Allah created people in the best shape ever, that's mentioned in Quran!
If a women is satisfied with the way she looks, why would she shape her eyebrows?
and I don't think shaping eyebrows makes a woman look prettier!! I can see a lot of womens' eyebrows areas have green surroundings.."YUK!!"
Plus, the eyebrows hair covers the facial bones around the eyes.. who'd love to look ghastly?
I love looking natural!!!

What about men who shape their eyebrows? I know of some Omani men who do.

And why would God care? I find things like wars, murders, rape, incest, beatings far more severe than if someone plucks at their eyebrows.

^ It's the same for men!!
And that's why I think people should not bother to spend time thinking and planning to shape their eyebrows.. there are a lot of things they can do other than that to beautify themselves :)

And why would God care?

It can be a test from God to find out who follows the Islamic teachings and who doesn't.

Allah created people in the best shape ever, that's mentioned in Quran!
If a women is satisfied with the way she looks, why would she shape her eyebrows?
and I don't think shaping eyebrows makes a woman look prettier!! I can see a lot of womens' eyebrows areas have green surroundings.."YUK!!"
Plus, the eyebrows hair covers the facial bones around the eyes.. who'd love to look ghastly?
I love looking natural!!!

I think once the woman did it then she has to do it all the time otherwsie she will look ugly (I mean the eyebrow area), is that true?

^^^No....if a woman does it long enough the hair will thin out. I don't like mine really thin. Doesn't fit my face. I have it waxed to where I don't look like a caveman since Hispanic women tend to have thick eyebrows like Arab women. No unibrow. :yuk:

^ marianna, it depends.. Here in Oman, I notice that the hair grows thicker and the area of the removed hair looks green and more like a cactus XD!
y'know, Arabian skin is different than Latin skin ;)

Yeah I forgot to add this:
All muslim sects agree that a woman CAN shape her eyebrows IF AND ONLY IF they make her look ugly and for an acceptable reason (like if she got her eyebrows unshaped due to an accident)

^^ and who decides if the reason is acceptable or not?

you can decide :) and if u feel like you can't, go and ask sheikh deen :)

That's interesting!
Then all that fuss is for nothing :XD:

I don't think shaping eyebrows makes a woman look prettier!! I can see a lot of womens' eyebrows areas have green surroundings.."YUK!!"
!!!

Very true, YUK :yuk:

This is a short fatwa from IslamOnline from Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a scholar in Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Part of it is:
Other scholars consider shaping eyebrows or trimming them to be permissible. They say that the prohibition in the above hadith specifically refers to plucking eyebrows, and it is prohibited because it is akin to mutilation, and also it is more likely to result in defaming one’s face. As opposed to this, shaping the eyebrows if they are excessively long or thinning them if they are excessively thick, is enhancing Allah’s creation rather than mutilating it. Its analogy, therefore, is to trimming the mustache or cutting hair, and so on, which are not only permissible but may also be recommended.

In light of the above, according to these scholars, it is considered permissible to shape or trim one’s eyebrows if they are excessively long or thick for the purpose of appearing neat and tidy.

I think this makes a lot of sense and as IslamOnline.net often has Azhar scholars, I have to conclude that Ahmad Kutty is from the Sunna, not Shi'a.
Source (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Islamonline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503548812)
He also says something of the same meaning in another fatwa called Straightening the Eyebrows:
The word used in the Hadith is nams in Arabic, which means plucking the eyebrows. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) considered plucking as distorting the creation of Allah. This was the practice resorted to by prostitutes in the time of pre-Islamic jahiliyya (ignorance) and it is still used by women of loose morals.

However, scholars who have studied the issue in detail have concluded that if a person’s eyebrows are unusually thick or unwieldy, then he or she can straighten them out. This is not considered nams or plucking. Allah wants us to look neat and tidy, and by trying to appear neat and tidy we are not distorting Allah’s creation, rather we are only enhancing it.

^^^Green though? Pictures?

I know that Arab women have this gorgeous olive toned skin, some brown but seems to be so pure and creamy. Yeah, am envious. :D

I never saw women with green skin :os
You gotta go ask The Hulk if you wanna marry them ha :p?

I know that Arab women have this gorgeous olive toned skin, some brown but seems to be so pure and creamy. Yeah, am envious. :D

Yummy yummy :love:

every woman looks better with her eyebrows shaped. they make the eye look larger. i haven't yet met a woman who looks better with a unibrow or with two hairy caterpillars over her eyes.
and don't quote me brook shields, cos even she gets hers done, and even in her heydaysm, she used to have them shaped. having eyebrows done does not mean having two thin lines above your eyes, but having a bit of shape and neatness to them. ti's all grooming.
as long as it's done by a qualified therapist who knows what she's doing, don't be a cowgirl and do it all by yourself without guidance.

^ marianna, it depends.. Here in Oman, I notice that the hair grows thicker and the area of the removed hair looks green and more like a cactus XD!
y'know, Arabian skin is different than Latin skin ;)

Yeah I forgot to add this:
All muslim sects agree that a woman CAN shape her eyebrows IF AND ONLY IF they make her look ugly and for an acceptable reason (like if she got her eyebrows unshaped due to an accident)

green skin? i havent seen one...

I think mine make me look ugly so am safe :inno: i mean not cursed..

^ well, do they cover half of your forehead? do they form ONE huge eyebrow? do they make u look like another creature?


UNDERSTAND, PPL!!!

That's interesting!
Then all that fuss is for nothing :XD:

what fuss?
well, for ur case, you can't decide :)

I shape my eyebrows, mine are not ugly they just look prettier shaped, not thin, just shaped and i don't see anything wrong with that. As for the green-ness, i have never seen anyone from all the people that i know [ everyone i know shapes their eyebrows anyway] with green under their brow :S where did you get that from? All i know is that shaving might create some green-ness to some people.
Noones hair covers thier foreheads either, some people have really thick brows and they look soo much prettier once they shape them a little ;s

Maybe she meant it leaves like on men with heavy beards some kind of shadow after shaving.

Some women unfortunately are so hairy that even with plucking you can see a shadow. The only way to get rid of that unattractive feature is waxing or laser surgery to zap those babies.

^ Hi5 to laser !! ;D

^ what if the fashion tendency changed to thick eyebrows and they wanted to grow back their full eyebrows? :p

PS: This thread is not about the greeen-ness.. :D

^ hair implantation ! ;D

P.S i know this thread is not about green ness, just replying to your comment :)

The ruling with regard to muslim women shaping their eyebrows is clear and that the woman is cursed by Allah for committing this sin.

Why do we found many muslim women taking this issue lightly?

I don’t like it when a woman shape her eyebrows, I like moderately wide brows.

I think the hadith is clear and I believe it is haram to shape brows.

But how about the ruling on shaping unsightly brows, like excessively hairy brows or thick unibrows even for men… can't they shape it?!


http://www.raisemyrank.com/images/qq/bert.png

I think if the hair is not part of the brows it can be removed.

Women who have these spaghetti thin eyebrows look like weird dolls. But having them neat and trimmed don't see the hoopla...for myself I think shaped eyebrows are fine but then I am Catholic so no big deal for this little lady.

You are right this issue is for Muslim women not Catholic.

Yes but you know me dear Ice...gotta give my 2 cents worth no matter what.

You are right this issue is for Muslim women not Catholic.
if one had a daughter, and god forbid she had a hairy snake above her eyes, wouldn't one secretly ferry her out in the dark, make an appointment with the beautician and make her eyebrows look human? pencil thin is one thing, and it suits many faces, but a full bushy caterpillar above the eyes is a definite no no. keep it natural, but a bit of shape. yumminess.

I have seen some babies who have that awful thing already above their eyes and I feel for the little critters.

I think it is good that you are reading and participating also, at least if you became a muslim one day you will be aware of these type of rulings.

if one had a daughter, and god forbid she had a hairy snake above her eyes, wouldn't one secretly ferry her out in the dark, make an appointment with the beautician and make her eyebrows look human? pencil thin is one thing, and it suits many faces, but a full bushy caterpillar above the eyes is a definite no no. keep it natural, but a bit of shape. yumminess.

The topic been discussed is the general ruling for normal/standard brows, if there are exceptions then I think there are also exceptions to the ruling. Islam is an easy religion.

I think it is good that you are reading and participating also, at least if you became a muslim one day you will be aware of these type of rulings.

Or if you decide to join us heathens and become a Christian......:love:

i dont shape them coz its not allowed.. i cut them sometimes n bleach .. once i used a raiser..
but it didnt become green.. it was okay..

the whole thing is about plucking it..
n still some say that cutting is not allowed..
even if we discuss this from today till tomorrow every1 will do what they plase.. now a days everything that you want hallal will be hallal.. u'll always find a shaik saying its okay.. so .. i never discuss eye brows with any1!
we all know its not allowed.. but a person choses to follow or not to..

I know for a fact that in Islam, if the girl's eyebrows are really bushy and basically makes her look ugly and unfeminine, then she is permitted to shape them.

The topic been discussed is the general ruling for normal/standard brows, if there are exceptions then I think there are also exceptions to the ruling. Islam is an easy religion.
of course there bloody well is.
who would want to enforce something and make his daughter unmarriagable?
religion and common sense do go together (sometimes)
if eyebrows are unsightly, off with them. open her eyes.
how is she supposed to carry kohol over her eyes if she's got a massive bush under her forehead?

Lym,

Not to shape them, but only remove the overly excessive hair. (According to the fatwa that says it is permitted if it was too bushy)
--------


I don't know IceTea, but I think it's because people stopped seeing it as an Islamic thing, but 'Tradition'. I remember before it was starting to be seen as 'Tradition' to only pluck after marriage.

First Islamic being forgot and mistaken for Tradition.
Now even Tradition is forgotten ...

Its haram when you f*ck your eye, not when you remove extra hair.

some remove the whole eyebrow and draw a line, now thats haram.

Its haram when you f*ck your eye, not when you remove extra hair.

some remove the whole eyebrow and draw a line, now thats haram.
that should be haram in all religions. it's awful. call the fashion police. penalty 40 lashings with a vuitton belt.

You know...I was just thinking about the thread title: Cursed by Allah....I guess I just don't see God as being vengeful in this way....why cursed? We should celebrate being human beings...eyebrows are the least of our worries but if a woman takes care of herself isn't that far better than the one who does illegal drugs, sells her body etc?? I don't know but just what got me thinking.

You know...I was just thinking about the thread title: Cursed by Allah....I guess I just don't see God as being vengeful in this way....why cursed? We should celebrate being human beings...eyebrows are the least of our worries but if a woman takes care of herself isn't that far better than the one who does illegal drugs, sells her body etc?? I don't know but just what got me thinking.

According to what we Muslims believe, Allah SWT gave us our bodies to preserve them against any dishonoring whether that be physical or both physical and moral dishonoring. Which is why mutilating our bodies in any way, by piercing, tattoos, complete removal of eyebrows, etc, is forbidden for us.

Picture it like this...You take one thousand dollars and you give it to a man and instead of thanking you and keeping them, he takes them and puts them right through the shredder up to the last dollar. You would be a LITTLE angry, right? Which is almost the same analogy in this case, except that Allah SWT is as merciful as He is just and infinitely generous...And that is His blessing!

Intersting analogy.

I don't like the tattooing and such..I know in the bible it discusses how human beings need to treat their bodies like God's temple but won't get into that here.

^I do remember hearing something like that!
Do you have any exact verse you can PM me?

^I do remember hearing something like that!
Do you have any exact verse you can PM me?
that's what i learnt at school as well. our bodies are God's temple and we should respect them as such. i think it was St. Paul who wrote something in that regard.

According to what we Muslims believe, Allah SWT gave us our bodies to preserve them against any dishonoring whether that be physical or both physical and moral dishonoring. Which is why mutilating our bodies in any way, by piercing, tattoos, complete removal of eyebrows, etc, is forbidden for us.
How do you reconcile that with cutting off your foreskin? Or girl's clitorises?

Correct me if I am wrong though but don't some Omani tribes tattoo their chins? What about that and what about what society there thinks?

that's what i learnt at school as well. our bodies are God's temple and we should respect them as such. i think it was St. Paul who wrote something in that regard.
Found it :D...Corinthians 6:19:
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

I have to say quite an interesting thing to read...

marianna,
I was talking about the general concept in Islam of how one is meant to preserve his body and neatness. So far as I know, there ARE certain Muslim women in the southern Egyptian cities (I honestly don't know about Oman!) who tattoo their chins. I believe that to be either they didn't know that they're not supposed to do it or they took tradition over religion. In either case, tattooing any part of your body is something that has been labeled by every scholar I ever heard from as Haram.

Shai,
Circumcision is part of the Sunna and female circumcision is not obligatory to any Muslim parent and (according to both the Hanafi and certain views of the Hanbali schools of thought) is a makruma, a customary act that is good but has no proofs in either the Qura'n or the Sunna. The view of Imam Shaf'i indicate it is Sunna. So there's quite a debate between scholars here. In any case, Islamic female circumcision does not involve the complete removal of the clitoris but the removal of the prepuce of the clitoris. Male circumcision, on the other hand, is an act that has many many many benefits to the male...Some of them are outlined below by Sheikh Qaradawi. We also believe it is an act of 'fitra' (i.e: natural tendency for good and right) and it is an authentic Sunna.
First, circumcision helps the penis remain clean. Microorganisms flourish in the warm, moist area under the foreskin, leading to a foul odor and infection.
Second, circumcision reduces the possibility of the penis becoming infected with syphilis, especially since the foreskin is the place where the germ breeds.
Third, the foreskin is most likely to be exposed to inflammation due to repeated friction, especially during sexual intercourse.
Fourth, it has been proved that circumcision (especially during the first five years of life) also reduces the incidence of penile cancer.
Fifth, circumcision helps man prolong the period of erection. This is because the nerves related to sexual stimulation are mostly located at the head of the penis. If the foreskin is present, it would prevent the penis' head from constant touch with other materials, which makes the penis sensitive to any kind of touch. When the foreskin is removed, the head of the penis becomes less sensitive due to its repeated friction against clothing.

It's worthy to mention that on that one we have something in common with Judaism.

^
Different groups cut different ammounts, I think some groups do cut off the whole thing and even sow the vagina shut.

Nevertheless, cutting and slicing people's genitals is far more mutilating than plucking eyebrows.

Where did you hear about sowing the vagina shut? That's degrading and is surely not a practice authenticated by Islam. The only thing that ALL the scholars are arguing about is not the 'amount' cut, that is already agreed upon, but whether doing it has any backing in authentic Sunna or not.

Nobody 'slices' or 'cuts off' people's genitals. You're not cutting off a male's balls when you cut off his foreskin for God's sake. In any way, that is our belief...You're free to disagree with it, hate it but I don't think it's contradictory to the idea that one shouldn't mutilate his own body at all. On the contrary, it is only going with the idea of being clean and neat while at the same time not being completely degrading to the human body.

But of course, that's my belief! I just wanted to tell you how Islam thought of it, nothing less, what you think of it is your own.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.
-The Holy Qura'n, Chapter 109, verse 6.

Shaping eye brows is normal and yes im shia and ice tea that mut3a thing well u see sunna have the same thing but with different type of rules and regulations thats all


i personly feel its normal but i dont like when ppl over do it, not cuz i feel its wrong but i feel its not needed

not saying its not hawt, it is but i myself wouldnt do it

circumcision is there because of the health benefits.
vaginal circumcision has no purpose in this respect. i think educated muslims circumcise their boys but i don't think they do the same to their daughters.

^^^^ not not what i know of but in afira they do for grls and miraco

^^^^ not not what i know of but in afira they do for grls and miraco
you mean in africa? yes it's quite often we read about fgm in tribal communities, and in communities where education hasn't yet reached.