My American curiosity always gets the best of me and I read up on things like this with a fevor unmatched by anyone.

Anyway, wanted to relate this and see how it compares with Omanis:

Probably one of the most frequent and common emails I may receive privately from readers of my blog are about Saudi students. Usually a woman from the host country in which the student is studying has met and become involved with the Saudi student. In many cases the student marries the woman while he is outside of the Kingdom. When it is near time for him to return to the Kingdom he will seek permission and initiate paperwork to return with his new foreign wife…except the majority of the time the permission is denied. The woman will email me asking for advice and information.

What I am going to write in this post may not be what many of these women want to hear but rather what they need to know. Saudi students (male and female) who are studying outside the Kingdom on a government funded scholarship are very clearly advised on the rules and regulations which pertain to their scholarship. When they depart the Kingdom there should be no doubt in their minds on what is or not allowable. On the issue of marriage, Saudi students on government scholarships are prohibited from marrying non-Saudis. Marrying a non-Saudi without the approval of the government can result in the revoking the scholarship and the student unceremoniously returning to the Kingdom.



Many of these young men in these situations do choose to ignore the rules and regulations will likely tell the foreign woman (if she is even aware of the rules) is that “they do not apply to me as I am not a government employee or work for one of the government organizations which prohibits marriage to foreigners.” Or they may so, “don’t worry, I have WASTA or family who will ‘fix it’ for us so we’ll get the approval.”

In many cases the Saudi student may very well have to return to the Kingdom leaving behind his foreign wife and sometimes children as well.

Just to reiterate, Saudi men under the age of 35, Saudi students on government scholarships outside of the Kingdom and Saudi nationals who work for the Ministry of Interior, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Defense, Intelligence Services, National Guard and armed services are prohibited from marrying foreigners. Yes; exceptions have and do occur but these are the MINORITY and certainly not a majority.





See the rest of the blog here:

Source: http://delhi4cats.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/what-you-need-to-know-about-saudi-students-outside-the-kingdom/

In general, Omanis are not allowed to marry forigners unless they get permission. Permission is not eaisly granted unless there is a valid reason on why they want to marry the forigner.

ohhhh...that sooo makes sense.

see i never knew this wheni wsa in univeristy, and there was this absolutely handsome saudi guy in my class with such a complicated arab name who i thought was really nice. And we got on so well and smiles and everything... but nothing ever happened... i was confused...

it's because of the saudi law. poor him. i bet he wanted me to be his wife (lol)

ahem...

So, i personally think this rule is crappy. I think people from around the world should be allowed to wed regardless their race or tribe.

But guys who know this rule and deliberatly marry foreign women and then leave them, thats wrong.

That is sad for those saudi men who leave their wife and child(ren) behind. Because of this law they need to NOT get into any marriages OR produce children because in the end they end up with children without fathers and a bereft wife. Not good. I doubt Saudi will change this law so the Saudi man has to be strong enough inside not to marry anyone who is not Saudi.

In general, Omanis are not allowed to marry forigners unless they get permission. Permission is not eaisly granted unless there is a valid reason on why they want to marry the forigner.
Do Omani males also have to get permission to marry non-Omani females ?

^ Yes!! and if it was found you will have to go to court and explain why did u do it. Perviously, I thought the kids will not be granted the Omani nationality but aparantly they do get it or so I heared.

^ Yes!! and if it was found you will have to go to court and explain why did u do it. Perviously, I thought the kids will not be granted the Omani nationality but aparantly they do get it or so I heared.
But is getting the permission for a male easier than getting it for a female?

Because I see more Omani males married to foreigners than females married to foreigners, especially old people. I mean those who got married in the 70's and 80's. Not sure if the law was different by that time, but I have a lot of Omani friends whose mothers are not Omani, and so I thought it's okay for Omani males to get married to foreigners.

I know how difficult it is for a female Omani to get permission from the Royal Office to marry a non-Omani male. It takes forever, even if you have a big fat wasta, it won't help a lot. But I didn't know that males also have to get permission. Will it be as difficult for males or easier?

It is hard for a Omani man to get it...I know.

It must depend on who the Saudi male is. I read the book "Inside the Kingdom" by a half Iranian, half european woman who married a bin Laden brother while both were studying in the USA.

She mentioned no problem with her coming to the KSA. This was back in the 80s. She did say, he was like two different people when inside and outside the KSA.

One solution if you love the person enough and you are in the USA, is to stay here and pursue citizenship. That will cost you a lot in terms of your life and your home and your family, but it's a possibility if you can't find any other. And perhaps one day you would find a way of regularizing things.

Unless you were on an exchange scholarship here paid by the US Government or a few other unusual conditions, you can apply for a green card and after three years for American citizenship.

It must depend on who the Saudi male is. I read the book "Inside the Kingdom" by a half Iranian, half european woman who married a bin Laden brother while both were studying in the USA.

She mentioned no problem with her coming to the KSA. This was back in the 80s. She did say, he was like two different people when inside and outside the KSA.

Carmen Bin Laden? i didn't read the book, but i read an interview with her in a magazine once. was very interesting.

--------------------------

i never knew Omani men have difficulties marrying a foreigner. i thought it's a problem only Omani women face.
anyhow, my knowledge about this subject extends as far as what Amjad has said.

Why to marry forigners? whats wrong with Omanis?

I know a french friend in Oman who's interested in marrying an Omani girl. We've told him that it's not allowed in Islam for the girl to marry a non muslim. He started reading about Islam and got very interested and ready to convert but the only obstacle now is ministry of interior which doesn't allow it. But when someone's intention is pure I think s/he will make it. It's difficult but not impossible.

I am 100% with the rules & regulations of the country, permission must be sought before marrying a non-Omani, anyone can apply & his/her case will be studied & permission can be given

Otherwise the following scenarios won't be uncommon after the death of an Omani man:

1- Suddenly an expatriate lady showing up out of nowhere saying that the foetus in her womb belongs to the late 85 years Omani man who married her when he underwent a bypass surgery in India last year

2- A bunch of grown up men accompanied by their mother claiming inheritance from the dead man

3- Unknown people claiming to be sons of an Omani & ask for the Omani nationality

It will be chaotic

How bout an Omani guy born and raised in the UK, do you need permission to marry him? lol

Yeah but there is such a thing as DNA...draw some blood samples man.

so falling in love with a non-Omani is a total no-no.....what if this non omani comes from a neighbouring muslim country? where there won't be any religious/race/culture clashes?

so falling in love with a non-Omani is a total no-no.....what if this non omani comes from a neighbouring muslim country? where there won't be any religious/race/culture clashes?
Why a total no-no?

Just get permission from the state and get married. Yes, getting that permission is not simple, but it's not impossible either. It just needs time. In most of the cases, the country grants permission, but one has to wait and be patient.

so falling in love with a non-Omani is a total no-no.....what if this non omani comes from a neighbouring muslim country? where there won't be any religious/race/culture clashes?

If you are talking about neighbouring countries like GCC, then according to the royal decree issued in April 2005 Omanis can marry from GCC without seeking permission . It's only when it comes to someone outside of the GCC then permission must be obtained from the Ministry of the Interior prior to the marriage.

If you are talking about neighbouring countries like GCC, then according to the royal decree issued in April 2005 Omanis can marry from GCC without seeking permission . It's only when it comes to someone outside of the GCC then permission must be obtained from the Ministry of the Interior prior to the marriage.
ah that's cool...with all the travelling to neighbouring countries for studies/shopping/work/prayer, there's a very good chance of people from these countries to meet and like each other.

Yeah but there is such a thing as DNA...draw some blood samples man.
That method can only disprove relations. Depending on the case. Sometimes it can't prove a relation 100%.

The rule of disallowing Omanis to marry foriegners is so wrong. All Islam asks for is that your spouse be a muslim. Nothing has been mentioned about race. So if a muslim foreigner is willing to get married to an Omani male or female they should do so with seeking of permission, but it must not be a hard thing to grant (like it is currently).

I am with you on that one Pen........

The rule of disallowing Omanis to marry foriegners is so wrong. All Islam asks for is that your spouse be a muslim. Nothing has been mentioned about race. So if a muslim foreigner is willing to get married to an Omani male or female they should do so with seeking of permission, but it must not be a hard thing to grant (like it is currently).

I totally agree with you.
The important thing is that s/he marries someone muslim.

In theory I wholeheartedly agree with Pen, however practically, it just won't work as smoothly as we would want it to. The law is there for a reason, and if it wasn't, then the consequences will be especially grave on Omani women. The Omani men will be glad that they can marry foreigners due to the low dowry and in addition, their families would accept them doing so, since their children carry their name. On the other hand, our society does not easily accept an Omani woman marrying a foreigner. So even if this law is scrapped, there would be many many Omani spinsters.

So until it becomes a norm to marry an outsider, this law will remain to protect the female citizens of this country.

What about lowering the dowry? What are the positive and negatives of that?

Too bad Omani women cannot marry a Muslim foreigner....ah well.

^^ How is it protecting the female citizens?

Because if this law is scrapped, then a lot of Omani men would marry foreigners, because of the low dowry, and society is fine with that, since their children will take after their (fathers) name and are going to be Omani. Hence less Omani women would be married. And why is that? Because our society does not condone Omani women marrying outsiders, since our children don't take after our names but our husbands.

So there would be an imbalance; Omani men marrying outsiders vs Omani women not allowed to marry outsiders (by the majority).

To be honest maybe the people, govt whatever don't want the culture "diluted" by a bunch of foreign blood...I honestly don't know but think in part having the ability of Omani women to freely marry Muslim men from anywhere could create some issues. Not that I agree with this law...I think Omani women should be free to marry whoever they want though to respect Islam I know it can only be with a Muslim man but at least let it be of her choosing irregardless of what country he comes from.

What about lowering the dowry? What are the positive and negatives of that?

Too bad Omani women cannot marry a Muslim foreigner....ah well.

I don't think they are any negatives consequences if we lowered the dowry provided it is not too low that women can't afford to prepare for her own wedding. However, the problem with this is that the dowries are calculated by families. It is not something that is monitored and regulated by the state even though we do have a recommendation by his Majesty that it should be a maximum of 2000 rials (but this is not followed, I wonder is it law? :rolleyes:). So until it is, individuals will just want more.

It sounds to me like controlling cattle or something close to it. (no offence to you Lym, it's just the reasoning behind it)

Islam says that you can marry anyone as long as they are muslim. If a female Omani marries a muslim foriegner and the children takes his name ... so? He is a muslim isn't he?

We are just so oppressed and scared by "society". Let society burn for all I care. Islam teaches Universal brotherhood based on justice, equality and respect for each individual, no matter the skin color or race. That's what I understand and going to follow. This whole not liking Omani men and women marrying foreigners is totally wrong to us as Muslims. It's racism which is haram. Oman and arab countries are just chokful of racism :rolleyes: I just feel as time goes on that we're delving deeper back into the mindset of Mekka society before Islam. Shame.

Because if this law is scrapped, then a lot of Omani men would marry foreigners, because of the low dowry, and society is fine with that, since their children will take after their (fathers) name and are going to be Omani. Hence less Omani women would be married. And why is that? Because our society does not condone Omani women marrying outsiders, since our children don't take after our names but our husbands.

So there would be an imbalance; Omani men marrying outsiders vs Omani women not allowed to marry outsiders (by the majority).

Personally I think this is not good. Muslim women should be allowed to seek for Muslim partner from any countries, but then it's a matter of cultural sensitivity.

It sounds to me like controlling cattle or something close to it. (no offence to you Lym, it's just the reasoning behind it)

Islam says that you can marry anyone as long as they are muslim. If a female Omani marries a muslim foriegner and the children takes his name ... so? He is a muslim isn't he?

We are just so oppressed and scared by "society". Let society burn for all I care. Islam teaches Universal brotherhood based on justice, equality and respect for each individual, no matter the skin color or race. That's what I understand and going to follow. This whole not liking Omani men and women marrying foreigners is totally wrong in islam. It's racism which is haram. Oman and arab countries are just chokful of racism :rolleyes: I just feel as time goes on that we're delving deeper back into the mindset of Mekka society before Islam. Shame.

Agree with you .

Actually this is cultural. Islam allows a woman to seek for a partner outside of her nationality as far as he is a Muslim. So everybody should have rights to choose between which is more important to her , whether her Islamic faith or her culture .

I honestly feel for everyone here because we fall in love with who we fall in love with....and if an Omani woman say falls in love with a Kuwati man for instance and he is a good Muslim, he loves her, will treat her right and she loves him...will do the same. He is well educated, respectful, funny, articulate....any and all qualities her family seeks...I mean EVERYTHING.....***BUT*** he is NOT Omani......imagine the heartbreak.....anyway.....I always wish the best for those women who only seek a good marriage, to have kids, and to be happy. Nothing less.

I once met an Albanian albino midget who married an Omani woman......they decided not to settle in Oman, because of their racist policies and are now happily married in another muslim country.


PS......The Saudi guys at the exclusive London clubs drop $1000 a night on cool disco "white girls".......telling them the biggest lies about Saudi Arabia.

fatak

Agree with you .

Actually this is cultural. Islam allows a woman to seek for a partner outside of her nationality as far as he is a Muslim. So everybody should have rights to choose between which is more important to her , whether her Islamic faith or her culture .

Actually the man who should seek not the woman.

Women can seek too..

Today we have internet.. remember ? ;)

Under Islam a Muslim man is allowed to marry a woman from any of the "three books" (i.e Muslim, Christian, Jew) - it is simply the rules of the country that prohibit or make this difficult. What right has a country or a group of ministers to think that they are better than the Holy Quran and therefore can go against the teachings of the Holy Quran (but only as and when it suits them)? You hear again and again people talking about Haram and Halal and saying 'that is not allowed in Islam, it is haram' - then just because it suits some pompous person in the ministry the teachings of the Holy Quran and Allah are suddenly ignored and the ministry will decide who can marry who - and therefore go against what Allah has decreed is halal. Good huh!

With all due respect to people who say that Omani men marry foreign women because there is no dowry - that is such a dumb statement to make. People who choose to marry an non Omani woman do so becuase they love each other - not because the girl has been sold by her parents. When we got married my husband still wanted to pay a dowry,i refused, simply because i am a person - i cannot be bought or sold and would not marry any man who thought he could buy me. I have way more dignity than that. In mixed marriages the dowry is still available - it is just often refused by the female as it is insulting.

No one except Allah should control or restrict peoples' feelings - or even think that they have the right to do that.

Western women also have a very different view of what it means to look after your husband - no way would we get a housemaid to do the cooking, ironing, looking after the children etc - that would be so shaming to us. That is one of the things that my husband loves and one of the main things that his friends and brothers in law envy. They see that these things are done by me by choice and out of love for my husband, whereas many of them rely on housemaid food, housemaid standard of ironing and cleaning and childcare - while their wives sit at home gossiping or shopping everyday. They also see that by his own choice my husband spends most of his free time with us as a family and they realise that we have a love bond that often does not come with aarranged marriages; men are beginning to say 'that is what i want' - what is wrong with that? We all need love and affection, right?

Don't condemn anyone for marrying who they choose, Omani / Muslim or not - it is Allahs will - not yours or the ministrys.

The rule of disallowing Omanis to marry foriegners is so wrong. All Islam asks for is that your spouse be a muslim. Nothing has been mentioned about race. So if a muslim foreigner is willing to get married to an Omani male or female they should do so with seeking of permission, but it must not be a hard thing to grant (like it is currently).

The rule is there to protect all Oman and Non-Oman.
During 90’s many Oman men went into different country get married and leave there spouse. Or bring then to Oman for 2 or 3 years then separate with them without due process or maintenance.
Court or government were power less the marriage were not valid as per Oman rule.

The rule is there to protect all Oman and Non-Oman.
During 90’s many Oman men went into different country get married and leave there spouse. Or bring then to Oman for 2 or 3 years then separate with them without due process or maintenance.
Court or government were power less the marriage were not valid as per Oman rule.

Its not rigid that if something happened to some people means it will apply to others. thats generalizing.

Under Islam a Muslim man is allowed to marry a woman from any of the "three books" (i.e Muslim, Christian, Jew) - it is simply the rules of the country that prohibit or make this difficult. What right has a country or a group of ministers to think that they are better than the Holy Quran and therefore can go against the teachings of the Holy Quran (but only as and when it suits them)? You hear again and again people talking about Haram and Halal and saying 'that is not allowed in Islam, it is haram' - then just because it suits some pompous person in the ministry the teachings of the Holy Quran and Allah are suddenly ignored and the ministry will decide who can marry who - and therefore go against what Allah has decreed is halal. Good huh!



The issue of marrying from 'people of the book' is not simple and there conditions for it. A muslim man is asked to seek the religious woman as per the hadeeth. The Prophet (peace be on him) said, "Get the one who is religious and prosper." (Reported by al-Bukhari.)

The meaning of the dowry is not to buy a woman
Try to get your facts straight before shooting

Because if this law is scrapped, then a lot of Omani men would marry foreigners, because of the low dowry, and society is fine with that, since their children will take after their (fathers) name and are going to be Omani. Hence less Omani women would be married. And why is that? Because our society does not condone Omani women marrying outsiders, since our children don't take after our names but our husbands.

So there would be an imbalance; Omani men marrying outsiders vs Omani women not allowed to marry outsiders (by the majority).

Just to support this point, UAE did not have any rule regarding marrying forginers until recently. They suffered alot of problems even though they put alot of benefits if people married UAEians. Now, this law is also applied to UAEians.

The country did not claim it brought this law from the Quran or Sunnah .. it put a law that helps regulate things in the society. Its unfair for some indivual cases, I agree .. but if its better for a country as a whole we have to accept it as citizens.

BeachBambi, I did not claim that the main reason an Omani men would marry a foreigner is because of the low (or no) dowry, but it is certainly a factor whether you would like to admit it or not.

When Omani families demand several thousands as dowry and that is without the expense of furnishing a home, wedding preparations and financially supporting her, the man is reduced to taking bank loans or simply not being able to get married. So if all they want to do is get married to a suitable woman, then a foreigner will just be as good as a wife and would cost way less to marry. That's why also we have Omani men marrying foreigners as 2nd wives, because most of the time they can't afford marrying an Omani who would demand a couple of thousands and gifts of Gold as dowry.

I am not saying it is what happens in every situation, but it is definitely an incentive. Also, a dowry does not mean we are being bought, a dowry can be the Holy Koran book which costs a couple of rials or, it can be anything you wish so long as it is a gift of value.

According to what I know, it's actually easier for an Omani woman to get permission than an Omani man - maybe because the children of the marriage don't get the citizenship so it's not a "passport to Oman" in the same way, and doesn't put any new responsibilites on the state.

But I have a couple of male Omani friends who took American wives while studying there. They both married without permission, and it took a long time to get it afterwards but they both succeeded in the end. It's not recommended though - one guy had his son five or six years old before he could bring him back to Oman.

and doesn't put any new responsibilites on the state.



It is not like Oman population above 100 millions, so this 'new responsibility' claim doesn't makes sense.

Omani women better for Omani men.

Omani women better for Omani men.
I very much agree on this :cute:

No need to go out
I heard some saying they will change village to search for their spouse cause dowry is too high in theirs, but then is more problems
Stay unmarried

What do you mean by change village?

Average dowry between 3 to 5 thousands.

They say they will search where girls fathers ask less but don't know if is possible
3 to 5 :os

Making my conacts from now & actually studying all the proceadures

I know an Omani woman married to a German and an Omani woman married to an American. I don't know about the first woman, but the woman who married the American had people talk badly about her. But of course that's only their problem since they believed she should have married a relative because he is (Awla: should be put first)

That's how it is the GCC. What I don't understand is how they refuse to separate religion from state like, say, the US is doing, then mess around with the religion's teachings.

I think it's easier for women since women aren't the ones who propose, but men do. So if no Omani men proposed to the woman, only non-Omanies, then she has all the right to get married to one of them. As for men, they are the ones who go and propose, that is why only if they are rejected that they could go and ask for permission to marry a non-Omani.

The Prophet (peace be on him) said, "Get the one who is religious and prosper." (Reported by al-Bukhari.)

That's an excellent point IceTea

Marrying a non Muslim can effect & influence the children negatively, if the mother is someone who drinks regularly front of the children for example because her religion does not prohibit it & the father doesn't as a Muslim, kids can be confused on what is right & what is wrong

And the above example is one of the simplest issues, there are more complex things that can occur

Oh yeah...drinks regularly. Where's my bourbon??

Give me a break what kind of impression are you giving about Christian women? Please.

Althus
I am totally against Imposing Rules who to marry people should be free to choose their own right partners..

But if I look at the different angle if we start marrying non Omanis, Then who will MARRY our Omani ladies?? Based on the rough estimate already Omani Ladies are outnumbered their fellow Oman Boys:mmhmm: We should stick to the rules and keep dreaming when you see beautiful ladies from Morocco or lebanon:yes::p

Althus
I am totally against Imposing Rules who to marry people should be free to choose their own right partners..

But if I look at the different angle if we start marrying non Omanis, Then who will MARRY our Omani ladies?? Based on the rough estimate already Omani Ladies are outnumbered their fellow Oman Boys:mmhmm: We should stick to the rules and keep dreaming when you see beautiful ladies from Morocco or lebanon:yes::p

With a new Dunkin Donuts in town.........I think these Omani ladies will soon be off the market........

expensive and fat

fatak

I think it's easier for women since women aren't the ones who propose, but men do. So if no Omani men proposed to the woman, only non-Omanies, then she has all the right to get married to one of them. As for men, they are the ones who go and propose, that is why only if they are rejected that they could go and ask for permission to marry a non-Omani.


Ha Ha! ROFLMAO

So all the men studying in foreign countries who have met good women (who can and will cook!) have been rejected by Omani women - HA HA, how hilarious!!
Maybe if some of the Omani women were not quite so 'precious' or were more open minded and less shopping minded, more men would be willing to marry them. Get to know the men who married from outside and find their reasons why - it may (only possibly though!) be because they fell in love, not because they were rejected!!!!

My husband had not been rejected by anyone before we met and got married - he has been approached since, however, by females who tell him and the family that they will be better for him than me because they are Omani and i am not! Well, that in itself speaks a lot about their characters doesn't it.

At the end of the day Islam and Allah say it is okay and right - so who is any human to argue?

That's an excellent point IceTea

Marrying a non Muslim can effect & influence the children negatively, if the mother is someone who drinks regularly front of the children for example because her religion does not prohibit it & the father doesn't as a Muslim, kids can be confused on what is right & what is wrong

And the above example is one of the simplest issues, there are more complex things that can occur

What about the 100s of Muslim men who consume alcohol - doesn't that give a Muslim child the wrong impression? Or the Muslim men who eat pork or who visit prostitutes or who have girlfriends - don't all those simple examples confuse a child?

Omani women can also cook and nice food too.

And 99% of Omani men married to Omani women, so I don't know why are you making it a big deal if few Omanis married from outside.

What about the 100s of Muslim men who consume alcohol - doesn't that give a Muslim child the wrong impression? Or the Muslim men who eat pork or who visit prostitutes or who have girlfriends - don't all those simple examples confuse a child?
yeah or those dads who boast they like to be in the company of other women when their wife is away, such as divorcees or women who don't look for commitment, and as long as actual intercourse doesn't happen (god knows everything else is ok ) it's ok.

I think Umkhalid didn't mean to generalize. But it's true, a permission would be easily given to an Omani man who keeps getting rejected by Omani families for one reason or another. I know that men who have been convicted and jailed are given permission automatically because a lot of Omani families will not approve of their daughters marrying a criminal.

Btw I think it's a bit of a myth that Omani women don't cook. The Omani Sabla membership is a very wealthy demographic, but even some of those who employ some domestic help (which is cheap), also do the cooking for the family because they want to.

Anyway, I agree with Ice Tea really (nurse!!); what's the big deal if some people marry foreigners? It's always happened. As for me, I think Omani women are nice. So there :p