Do you think it is alright to think that you, a Muslim, are better than non-Muslims?

I am asking you, as a person. Do YOU think you are better than non-Muslims just because you are a Muslim?

I don't want answers saying: "Yes Muslim(s) are better than non-Muslims".

Whatever your answer, please explain your views.

So, you are questioning the muslims here? Interesting....let's see what they have to say

i dont think that..
im a muslim and i never thaught that i am
better then this non-muslim person
because just thinking of that
is like denying that i am a muslim..

because no one is different
everyone is the same..

and there is many non-muslims
is better then many muslims..
and that is tru...

Spirit,

That's why it's in the Islamic Sabla. It doesn't matter if no one replies. The most important thing is that they think about the question. Is it alright for a person to think he or she is better than non-Muslims just because they are Muslims?

Because I heard something today: Our hearts are not stable. There could be Muslims who live their lives as the best Muslims, but one day before they die, they leave their beliefs. And there are non-believers who, one day before they die, believe and submit to God fully.

Hmm, interesting topic. Anyways, I think every person thinks they're better than the ones from a different religion, because they believe that the religion they believe in is the correct one. A Christian will think that he/she is better than a Jew or a Muslim, and vice-versa. It's just the way it is.

Thanks a lot Orgullo, the first to reply. I agree with you, and found this very interesting:

im a muslim and i never thaught that i am
better then this non-muslim person
because just thinking of that
is like denying that i am a muslim..



Could you explain further? I found this very interesting.

Thanks Superbia. Of course, everyone is happy with what they go by. But what I want to know is, do Muslims see it as correct, Islamically correct, to see themselves better than others just because they are Muslims?

"I am a better human than he is because I am Muslim."

Does this not go under Takabbur (To think highly of yourself)?

I just feel that this question has many directions in context of : better in what?
Clearly am not better than Klose in football!

So define "better" :)

The answer is in the Quran, shall I quote the verse?

Better as people, even in God's eyes.

كُنْتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ أُخْرِجَتْ لِلنَّاسِ تَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ

You (true believers in Islâmic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his Sunnah) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islâm has forbidden), and you believe in Allâh

Better in that sense.

^^^^^^^^
IceTea okay u r right in that..
but where is the muslims from this verse and other verses from the Quran..

Umkahlid from when i was a kid
i always lernt from my dad and mon
that we r not better then anyone.. and money
and luxury is just a blessing from Allah..
So we have no right to treat a person
lower then me even non-muslim..
because if i said i am better then u the non-muslim
he will think that islam is agrresive religon
and no mercy in it..
islam always teached us that peace
is the best way to show my religon..
and the word islam is from the word al-salam
which means peace..

كُنْتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ أُخْرِجَتْ لِلنَّاسِ تَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ

You (true believers in Islâmic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his Sunnah) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islâm has forbidden), and you believe in Allâh

Better in that sense.

i am a muslim..
but will all muslims eventually will end up in heaven????

^^^^^^^^
IceTea okay u r right in that..
but where is the muslims from this verse and other verses from the Quran..



Where are muslims from that verse is another thing.

i am a muslim..
but will all muslims eventually will end up in heaven????

The criteria that leads to heaven are stated in the Quran.

I don't believe that I, being a muslim, am better than other non-muslims, (mother Theresa for example?).
now its true that I pray 5 times a day, fast in Ramadhan, while she did not. But, generally, I'm dead sure her good deeds on earth for people are much much much much much stronger and better.
And I believe that is how God judges people.

Kuffar deeds are like a mirage, isn't there a verse about it?

So are the deeds of hypocrites :)

IceTea, that verse does not imply that we are the best no matter what. The conditions stated in the verse must be fulfilled if we can apply the verse in reality. And for the three conditions in the verse, you have to make OTHER conditions and accomodations. No one for example, can ask people to do good things to gain Allah's blessing and enjoin in good things if he himself enjoins in bad things. That is one of the many conditions of HOW and WHEN we can:
enjoin Al-Ma'rûf
and
forbid Al-Munkar

To answer UmKhalid's question, however, I DO look up to many non-Muslims for their strength in their faith and their insistence on their religion and their knowledge of their religion. The grace of Islam is something I'm quite proud of, but what use or blessing is in Islam if one does not follow it completely? There's a large number of us, as Muslims believing in Islam (including myself) who are not in the same degree of both knowledge and faith as many non-Muslims are with their religion.

Thread, I didn't exclude the conditions. So your reply to me not required.

My reply to you is harmless.
Relax, I wasn't arguing or trying to heat you up.

Al Hasan Al Basari once said to someone who was thinking highly of himself:

Do not think highly of yourself.

- If you saw a child say: The child did not commit any sins, but I have.

- If you saw an old man say: He has lived longer and thus done more good deeds than I have.

- If you saw an ignorant man say: This man could have commited a sin out of ignorance, but I have commited sins while I know their weight.

And then he said about thinking you are better than non-Muslims:


وإن كان كافراً فقل: عسى أن يُسْلِم فيَسْلَم، ويُختم له بخير؛ أما أنا فلا أدري: هل يبقى معي نور الإيمان فأسلَمَ، أم يسْلَبُ مني فأَعطَب؟

- And if you saw a non-Muslim then say: He might be shown the right path and dies a Muslim, as for me, I don't know: Will I still have the light of faith in my heart? Or will it be taken and I will lose?

^^^
thats the right thing to say..

Nope. Usually I actually think the opposite :P

I see many Muslims are very biased and they don't even give a chance to understand things differently. It's annoying sometimes.

When it comes to good morals, I think religion is not the only way which can help you to be a good person.

I see many Muslims are very biased and they don't even give a chance to understand things differently. It's annoying sometimes.


When you judge yourself basing on some others ( known to be under the same category of you ), it's really a pity.




Here this questions carry many phases:

- I am a muslim and I am a human being at the same time.
- Non muslims are human beings too.
- There are true and not true muslims.

So me being muslim, I don't feel am better than non muslims. I just feel luckier to be a muslim. Yet, being muslim doesn't guarantee us going to heaven and being non muslim doesn't guarantee them going to hell. We all believe in God and mean to worship Him as He Wants us to do.

For example, when I compare myself to Jeff, I without doubt feel he's much better than me. He loves his religion and he works harder than I do to explain anything about it and defend it. Yet, I feel luckier than him cos Allah made me muslim and in my deep heart I feel Islam is a bliss.

so in brief, I feel in a better situation than other non muslims by being muslim but not as a better person. And am sure other non muslims think the same about their religion.

When you judge yourself basing on some others ( known to be under the same category of you ), it's really a pity.

.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't comparing myself to others. I was giving a general idea from what I've gone through with many Muslims. Then I said 'morals' aren't about religion.

Got it?

Everyone's pathetic regardless of their religion. I'm the only holy.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't comparing myself to others. I was giving a general idea from what I've gone through with many Muslims. Then I said 'morals' aren't about religion.

Got it?

UmKhalid question was:

Do YOU think you are better than non-Muslims just because you are a Muslim?


And you replied:

Nope. Usually I actually think the opposite :P

I may misunderstood you. Sorry it's my bad then.

But also morals stem from religions. All religions call for morals so there is a relationship between both of them. Yet, I agree that morals don't need religion. Some people have no religions but they are with strong morals.

Everyone's pathetic regardless of their religion. I'm the only holy.

You mean you have no religion ?

No I don't think I am better than others just because I am Muslim. I somehow feel comfortable being a Muslim (although I disagree with many issues or in other words, some things just don't make sense to me), but I don't think that makes me better or feel better than others.

Hmm, interesting topic. Anyways, I think every person thinks they're better than the ones from a different religion, because they believe that the religion they believe in is the correct one. A Christian will think that he/she is better than a Jew or a Muslim, and vice-versa. It's just the way it is.

O Goodness no! A Christian who thinks he is better than others because he is a Christian is in danger of hellfire!

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Luke 18: 9-14.

Spiritual Pride is the worst of all sins, it's the Devil's own sin.

This is the holy attitude: "God have mercy on me a sinner!"

This is the Devil's attitude: "I thank you God that you have made me a Christian and not like other men."

And believe me, I know deep in my heart, VERY WELL, that I am not better than you, Superbia.

Agreed.......it is a sin to think such. I don't think I am better than anyone who is not a Christian. I don't go around saying have you met Jesus etc.....wanting to save souls. That kind of drama turns me off.

Do YOU think you are better than non-Muslims just because you are a Muslim?


If it's just being a muslim, then yes I'm far better than none muslims. As a muslim I believe there is heaven and hell after death. My islam extra bit defines the right path to these two destinations in a perfect ideal way.

I have my research supervisor who is just perfect in terms of manners and he is tea total .. the way he deals with his students, they way he takes care of his family. I give him all credit on that, 10/10.

But when it comes to the religion bit, he barely cares about it. He is like 24/7 with equations and methmatical model, apart from Sunday because he has to clean the toilet as his wife asks him to do that lol.

Each time I think about him and his way of living, I just wish he is a muslim. I feel so sorry for him for not giving it some attention. I think he is smart enough to see it but it needs that effort to conquer it.

Although I believe (not feel) that my religion is the best, I never felt I am better than another human being just because I am Muslim.

And those who act like, “eh I am not gonna let this who doesn’t know how to wash after (using the restroom) go before me…” are the worst…and by that act, they revoke any goodness in them...

Sometimes ... just sometimes ... when I see the way people here behave I feel I am so much more better then them as a human being.

But it's nothing to do with me being a muslim, coz I have plenty of friends here with different relegions, or no relegion at all, and they are good people that I can look up to. So I am a better person in terms of my values.

A good muslim by deafult suppose to be a good human being.

Do you think it is alright to think that you, a Muslim, are better than non-Muslims?

I am asking you, as a person. Do YOU think you are better than non-Muslims just because you are a Muslim?

I don't want answers saying: "Yes Muslim(s) are better than non-Muslims".

Whatever your answer, please explain your views.

Is it true that there's a different penalty in Islam for murdering a Muslim than from murdering someone else? I heard that you give the death penalty for murdering each other, but a lesser punishment for murdering others.

although I disagree with many issues or in other words, some things just don't make sense to me

Things like?

Is it true that there's a different penalty in Islam for murdering a Muslim than from murdering someone else? I heard that you give the death penalty for murdering each other, but a lesser punishment for murdering others.

Under a system of Sharia Law, no. As IslamOnline.net is my usual favorite source, the same exact question was asked by a person to be replied to by a scholar. The context of his question was:
A non-Muslims debated with me regarding equality in Islamic Law. He said that in the Islamic state if a Muslim commits a crime – such as murder, for instance - against a non-Muslim, he will not be punished in the same way as a non-Muslim will be if the latter commits a crime against a Muslim. I feel this is untrue. Can you clarify please?

The answer by an Azhar scholar, Abdul Majeed Subh:
Brother, the claim that you referred to in your question is groundless and has no backing in the Islamic Law. All people, Muslims and non-Muslims, are equal before the Shari`ah with regard to penalties and punishments.

Scholars of Islam say that if a Muslim kills a non-Muslim unjustifiably, he has to be killed by the Islamic authority in charge of applying the penalties. The same is true also regarding killing a non-Muslim in retaliation if he kills a Muslim unjustifiably. This is according to the general instruction of the Qur’anic verse: (And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong doers.) (Al-Ma’idah 5: 45)

It goes without saying that the above ruling applies to all other crimes and penalties.
He continues and says:
In the Sunnah, we read also the Hadith narrated by Al-Bayhaqi indicating that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), killed a Muslim in retaliation for his killing a non-Muslim who had concluded a peace-treaty with Muslims, saying, “I am (the Prophet of Allah) the most honored one who should keep his covenants.”

Then of course there is verse 187 of Surat Al Baqara (The Cow/Chapter 2) of the Holy Qura'n which explains:
(O ye who believe! The law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude. This is a concession and a mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty


The link to the entire IslamOnline.net article here (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503545890&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar).
I hope that answers your query :)

I hope that answers your query :)

Yep. I think I was thinking of a different "school" of jurisprudence or something.

^There is not one of the four Sunna imams who disagrees with the statement mentioned in the fatwa :os

It's a crystal clear Qura'n verse. Where did you read that? What evidence did they base their judgment on? Did they base it on a particular hadith? And if so, was the hadith authentic? Which verses of the Qura'n were they interpreting or basing their judgment on? Which scholars agreed with it, which opinions did they cite as influences for their judgment?

^ I'm not sure what you mean by 4 Sunna imams but what I'm saying is that I think different schools of law have different ideas about this. But I accept that the majority of Muslims have equality of punishment for murder.

I'm sorry! I meant the FIVE Sunna imams.
You see, those were the starters of the five schools of Sunni jurisprudence, they are:
Imam Abu Hanifa.
Imam Malik.
Imam Shaa'fi.
Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal.
Imam Abu Dawood.

They started the five schools of Sunni jurisprudence or fiqh. And they are the most widely known and followed scholars in terms of fiqh among Muslims and they are all members and major scholars of the largest Muslim denomination, the Sunnis. Which is why when one says that all of them agreed on something, there is hardly any doubt what they agreed on is true especially as it is backed by both Qura'n verses and authentic hadith.

So if we have another school that offers interpretations that are based on non-authentic hadith, for example, we cannot possibly prefer them over the agreement of the five Imams. Which is why I was asking on where you read it, was just curious on what sources somebody could base such claims.

So this total BS ...

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

And this is BS too ...

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64:
Narrated 'Ali:

Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

And this which says ...

Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ارتداد, irtidād or ridda) is commonly defined as the rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim.

The four major Sunni and the one major Shia Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed.[1] They differ on the punishment for a female apostate - some schools calling for death and others for imprisonment. Whether Sharia laws governing apostasy are derived from the hadith traditions alone or also from the Qu'ran is disputed. According to Wael Hallaq nothing of the apostasy law are derived from the Qur'an,[2] although the jurist al-Shafi'i interpreted the Qu'ranic verse 2:217 as providing the main evidence for apostasy being a capital crime in Islam.[3]

A minority of medieval Islamic jurists, such as Hanafi jurist Sarakhsi,[4] Maliki jurist Ibn al-Walid al-Baji, and Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah,[5] and some contemporary Islamic jurists, such as Shafi`i Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa[6][7] and Shi'a Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri,[8] argued or issued fatwas that either the changing of religion is not punishable or is only punishable under restricted circumstances, but these minority opinions have not found broad acceptance among the majority of Islamic scholars.[9][10][11][12]

Some prominent contemporary examples of death sentences or threated issued for apostasy include Salman Rushdie, who was condemned to death in 1989 by Ayatollah Khomeini, (ruler of Iran at the time) for his book The Satanic Verses; and Abdul Rahman, an Afghan convert to Christianity who was arrested and jailed on the charge of rejecting Islam" in 2006 but later released as mentally incompetent.[13]

Good, now we're using Wikipedia and jack to find out more about Islam because (oh how could I MISS IT!) Dr Jamal Badawi, a member of the International Union of Islamic Scholars could never compare to jack's Islamic knowledge...

As I said, how could I possibly have missed it!
You're on the wrong thread btw.

Good, now we're using Wikipedia and jack to find out more about Islam because (oh how could I MISS IT!) Dr Jamal Badawi, a member of the International Union of Islamic Scholars could never compare to jack's Islamic knowledge...

As I said, how could I possibly have missed it!

If i need to teach yes i'm more than glad to.

So the hadiths are BS ?

jack, put yourself in my shoes man...See what you can do.
On one side:
You have one member of the International Union of Muslim scholars, qualified enough to write a number of books on Islam, a known speaker and a professor and an avid researcher of Islam who had researched thoroughly into the matter (including Sahih Bukhari from which you quoted your hadiths so I'm pretty sure he 'saw' them and researched them too while mentioning clearly the effect of how weak their chain of narration is) concluding that:
The preponderance of evidence from both the Qur'an and Sunnah indicates that there is no firm ground for the claim that apostasy is in itself a mandatory fixed punishment (hadd), namely capital punishment.
On the other side...
You have a forum member.
With an agenda for political threads that involve Islam who's trying to tell me the opposite is true.

So that's more like a Math teacher telling me 1+1=2 and you telling me 1+1=0.
I'll stick with Dr Jamal Badawi's opinion...If the researched and thorough opinion of a noted Muslim scholar will not convince you of the Islamic perception on this matter, nothing will.

Dr Jamal Badawi also says Mohammad is in the bible ... which is clearly false.

Now again those 2 hadiths are BS ?

And btw the wikipedia source has not been challenged. If that is wrong as you say why do think that it hasn't been.

*sigh*, for the hundredth time jack:
The man researched the incidents where apostasy is said to have had a capital punishment and determined a clear and weak chain of narration then the hadiths are not authentic.
Rendering them invalid for any judgment in any matter.
Let alone that if a hadith goes against a Qura'nic verse (in simple, basic terms a hadith is measured through two basic things: matn and isnad, i.e: whether the hadith goes with the Qura'n or not and whether its chain of narration is trustworthy or not) it is clearly not authentic since the prophet PBUH in sayings and actions will never go against the Qura'n. If the Qura'n states:
Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth — God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way
Indicating clearly the position of someone who believes and THEN DENY THE TRUTH and AGAIN COME TO BELIEVE, impossible for any apostate having the capital punishment applied to him once 'discovered', a hadith cannot go against it unless that hadith is not authentic.

Then these people have nothing to worry about ... nothing at all.

Young Muslims begin dangerous fight for the right to abandon faith (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2426314.ece)

And all the others that have been arrested harrassed and threatened in muslim countries all over the world.

Now you're getting boring + repetitive.
If you have nothing to add on the Islamic ruling on apostasy as found in hadith and Qura'n (other than *****ing over a renowned scholarly opinion who's backed up by at least five different reliable and renowned scholars in the article he wrote) kindly bugger off.

Now you're getting boring + repetitive.
If you have nothing to add on the Islamic ruling on apostasy as found in hadith and Qura'n (other than *****ing over a renowned scholarly opinion who's backed up by at least five different reliable and renowned scholars in the article he wrote) kindly bugger off.

What you say and what the reality is on the ground ... boring + repetitive. :yes:

What you say and what the reality is on the ground ... boring + repetitive. :yes:
Umm...what?