20 years from today, after raising your kids properly and noticing nothing wrong with them.. your son/daughter tells you that they are gay/lesbian.

As a parent you will have to accept it because they are your kids but you're definately going to do something about it, either solve it or hide it from everyone else, or... anything else..

You tell me: What are you going to do?

Please try to think of this as if you're realllllllllly dealing with it and then reply :)

Take them to a good mental institute

By the way, for males it's a not a very big deal if it's not "straight", even banana shaped does the job pretty well

20 years from today, after raising your kids properly and noticing nothing wrong with them.. your son/daughter tells you that they are gay/lesbian.

As a parent you will have to accept it because they are your kids but you're definately going to do something about it, either solve it or hide it from everyone else, or... anything else..

You tell me: What are you going to do?

Please try to think of this as if you're realllllllllly dealing with it and then reply :)
i've stated my views on gay people in the other thread, but if my kids came out to me, i'd fully accept them, and made sure everybody else did. as long as they are fulfilled in their lives, and live a happy and a GOOD life, away from promiscuity and drugs, it's all fine by me.

i have a lady friend of mine who's son is gay. it was quite a blow to her at first, but within a couple of months, when she met his friend and saw how much they respected each other, she loves them both as her sons. they organise parties for her on her birthday, inspect her wardrobe from A-Z (son comes in...'Mum, orange is so NOT YOU, and takes her out shopping). he's got a very very successful top job and he lives in his own, fully paid house. he phones her daily and visits her three times a week, cooks for her and when she's sick, both of them go down to take care of her house and her needs. more than many mums can say of their straight sons.
gay or straight offspring, it's how they lead their life and how they love you.

rejecting a son/daughter for their sexual orientation can lead to massive difficulties and depression.

I would do everything I can to reverse the effect and try to straighten them out - discreetly. By perhaps letting them see a therapist, attend a rehab abroad, take medication..etc. IF all does not work, then I would have to accept him/her but I would stress that acting on "homosexuality" is the gravest sin they could commit according to Islam. So hopefully, they would be God-fearing enough not to do anything about it and they would not to broad cast it to the world or else, it would ruin them especially in our society.

My males relatives when asked this question keep saying that they are going to take their "gay" son to Ma3bela ( a place in Oman) and let the guys beat the hell out of him until he is straight again: "bi9alboo" :os

^there is nothing in the world that can reverse homosexuality.
cover it maybe. put them in forced denial. maybe too.
but never reverse it.
can i change you into a man by beating you up and scaring the hell out of you?

Yes you can Minerva ..
A person with a penis is supposed to be with a person with a virgina! thats how it works ..
If its something to do with the hormones and stuff .. than thats another issue and I believed that there is a cure for it ..

Even if the family is not Muslim .. by common sense they should realise that god made them be a man and accept the fact that they are!

Nothing is more sexually pleasurable than sleeping with a women if you are a man ..
Nothing is more sexually pleasurable than sleeping with a man for a women ..

God made it that way! ^^
------------------------------

If my daughter or son are not straight .. and I've realised that its nothing to do with hormones .. its just a sexual feeling and desirable feeling .... Than I would beat the $hit of them!
We a'int in Loo6 world right now!

Maybe it is a confusion they're going through with their sexual orientation. Maybe it is just psychological and not really biological. If it is biological, then I think I might agree there is nothing you can do to reverse it. But till I am dead sure that there is nothing I can do about it, I will do everything to try to change them. I love them far too much to allow society to chop them up and feed them to the dogs.

Science in homosexuality is still a new area that has not been exhaustively studied and it has not been proved completely that one is born homosexual. So there is room for assuming that it can be reversed.

I believe there's 2 types of gays:

There's the ones who were made that way by childhood abuse- they're the ones who just seem like average guys and you can't tell they're gay. Lots of politicians and corporate big wigs are in this group, such as many of the top ranking nazis.

Then there's the ones who were born that way because of female hormones in the womb, they even look gay.

You can change the first group but there's nothing you can do about the second group.

^ read shai's post three times and then think again.


i am referring to the 'hormone' gays. and no, there is no reversal.

;1089625']
Nothing is more sexually pleasurable than sleeping with a women if you are a man ..
Nothing is more sexually pleasurable than sleeping with a man for a women ..

God made it that way! ^^

You bring up a good point. Why do lesbians have all these toys that are shaped like male genitals which it is the very same thing they rejected in real life? Because the male shaped organ is what brings them the most pleasure!

And it is the same with gays. I just don't want to spell it all out because it sounds too vulgar :Sick:

And if one tells me it is not the act of sex itself that makes homosexuals unlike heterosexuals, then I don't know how to explain it. Because every other ingredient you want in a relationship you can get from your friends, it is only sex that you need from your proper partner (excluding night one stands and flings).

one answer, American Pie. I will show that movie to my kids 3 times a year. Problem solved!

you'd have to show them not only american pie, but a lot of other pies. there is nothing you can do.

you go to a shrink and you ask him to 'fix' your kid, he'll give you pills to fix yourself instead.

You bring up a good point. Why do lesbians have all these toys that are shaped like a male genitals if they don't want it in real life to begin with? Because the male shaped organ is what brings them the most pleasure!

And it is the same with gays. I just don't want to spell it all out because it sounds too vulgar :Sick:
but it's the female behind it that is using it. with a female body. btw. just for your information. those toys are not just used by lesbians only. the biggest clients for companies like annsummers are definitely not lesbians.

See, I am not yet convinced that people can be born guy. But if down the line, I am convinced eventually that one of my kids was born like this (and he did not choose to be gay) then I would still love them and "I would have to accept him/her but I would stress that acting on "homosexuality" is the gravest sin they could commit according to Islam"

With the toys, my point is without it, they won't have a healthy sexual relationship. They need what they "rejected" to have a healthy relationship. It is a bit contradictory to me personally :os

See, I am not yet convinced that people can be born guy. But if down the line, I am convinced eventually that one of my kids was born like this (and he did not choose to be gay) then I would still love them and "I would have to accept him/her but I would stress that acting on "homosexuality" is the gravest sin they could commit according to Islam"

With the toys, my point is without it, they won't have a healthy sexual relationship. They need what they "rejected" to have a healthy relationship. It is a bit contradictory to me personally :os
no, because they have erogenous zones that need to be stimulated. ;)


------------------
born gay? there are loads. homosexuality even exists in the animal kingdom.

and for a man, or a woman, it's no fad. who's gonna forfeit a healthy, loving hetero relatioship for one that is all against the odds? where you have people looking down on you and guys bashing you? and parents disowning you and people spitting at you? people throwing the holy book at you and telling you 'wrong, disgusting, shameful' as if you are not a human being? who's gonna settle for that unless it's really really deep down within their psyche?

That would never happen to me, seriously I'd die if my son came up to me and told me that he was gay. I'm homophobic, I cannot stand the sight of two men together. Also I don't believe that a person is born gay, but the environment in which he's in makes him that way, therefore my kids will not be in such an environment.

But Minerva .. the guys who are born gay .. they still can produce sperm .. right?

So why continue on going to the wrong path ?!
God made them with penis's .. and testicles .. with sperm inside them to reproduce!

So its just matter of forgetting the fact that they are born gay and try avoiding it as much as possible and I am sure it will be forgotten sooner or later and continue on like normal people and that is f**king a women .. not a man!

I don't know much about people who are born homosexual .. but I am sure it can be taken away!

Is there like .. a website about people who are born homosexual .. ?

We've all sort of crazy people in this world who want attention and want to "stand out". That argument does not really do it for me because I have read of cases where people confessed to murders they have not committed and doing that is so much worse than being "gay" in this world. They're people who just like being hated and have pain conflicted upon them. It is entirely psychological. Blame it on their environment or perhaps their personality! Flowing from that, there are too many different mentalities and psychologies here that we might not understand such as people who crave for sufferance and being gay might just be a way to achieve that.

Also, apparently there is an argument that being gay is a "trend". Homosexuality due to the media has been associated with high class fashion, a great sense of style, in hair and make up and to some extent, it is them being in the league of their own. Maybe this might influence some to become supposedly gay.

Basically, it might just not be something they're born with. The possibilities are endless and still, there is no solid scientific study that shows one can be born homosexual.

[AB]
i'm just pasting random articles.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/article542811.ece

i'll start with this...it's a good article.

My males relatives when asked this question keep saying that they are going to take their "gay" son to Ma3bela ( a place in Oman) and let the guys beat the hell out of him until he is straight again: "bi9alboo" :os

OMG this is so funny! :XD:

GREAT idea, let him experience some of the things he THINKS he wants.

^omg it is really funny. beating up a human being is soooo hilarious.

born gay? there are loads. homosexuality even exists in the animal kingdom.
Oh of course now I fully appreciate how it's so normal and all...
I mean, if animals have it too, that explains why it's natural for humans!
Sadly, animals still haven't discovered about electricity, the theory of relativity, psychology and all that other stuff we managed to discover and understand. That certainly raises us a BIT above their level of comparison, don't you think?

If I have a son or daughter who's not fully understanding his or her sexual orientation, I think I'll take him or her to a mental facility, get him or her checked up, and make sure I get him or her on any required treatments along with of course, providing emotional support all along the way.

Oh of course now I fully appreciate how it's so normal and all...
I mean, if animals have it too, that explains why it's natural for humans!
Sadly, animals still haven't discovered about electricity, the theory of relativity, psychology and all that other stuff we managed to discover and understand. That certainly raises us a BIT above their level of comparison, don't you think?

If I have a son or daughter who's not fully understanding his or her sexual orientation, I think I'll take him or her to a mental facility, get him or her checked up, and make sure I get him or her on any required treatments along with of course, providing emotional support all along the way.
it don't work.

you can provide lots of downer pills and have him/her live like a zombie, with no sexual urge. then God will be pleased.

^It actually does!
There is quite a large number of facilities who STILL treat homosexuality as a disease of the mind. Frankly, I don't think they're all idiots. A couple of them were on Egyptian television some months ago, explaining on how they have treated quite a number of 'homosexual' patients to be heterosexual individuals. The same case is illustrated with the article that Jeff provided in the thread 'California legalizes gay marriage'.

I'm glad you acknowledge, however, that just because 'animals do it' does not make it fully okay for humans too.

^It actually does!
There is quite a large number of facilities who STILL treat homosexuality as a disease of the mind. Frankly, I don't think they're all idiots. A couple of them were on Egyptian television some months ago, explaining on how they have treated quite a number of 'homosexual' patients to be heterosexual individuals. The same case is illustrated with the article that Jeff provided in the thread 'California legalizes gay marriage'.

I'm glad you acknowledge, however, that just because 'animals do it' does not make it fully okay for humans too.
i don't want you to twist my words, so i'll spell it out

in the animal kingdom, there are some individuals that are 'born gay' they have homosexual behaviour. due to the prenatal hormones and stuff.
right.
so what i said was NOT because it's ok for animals, it's ok in humans.

but...it happens in nature all over the animal kingdom.

^omg it is really funny. beating up a human being is soooo hilarious.

Better beaten up here than burning in Hell, I'm a loving mother.

I would do everything I can to reverse the effect and try to straighten them out - discreetly. By perhaps letting them see a therapist, attend a rehab abroad, take medication..etc. IF all does not work, then I would have to accept him/her but I would stress that acting on "homosexuality" is the gravest sin they could commit according to Islam. So hopefully, they would be God-fearing enough not to do anything about it and they would not to broad cast it to the world or else, it would ruin them especially in our society.

My males relatives when asked this question keep saying that they are going to take their "gay" son to Ma3bela ( a place in Oman) and let the guys beat the hell out of him until he is straight again: "bi9alboo" :os

i'd do the exact same thing :)

and what?? they'd beat him?? that's so old fasioned! They used to do that in the old days..or they'd burn them :os ufff..so ignorant! That wont do ANYTHING accept break a few bones. The problem is not with the body, it's with the brain.

In the brain there is a part that allows you to recognize what gender you are. People that are gay, have that part of the brain impaired. That's why they are confused. The chemicals in the brain are messed up. There are signals that you'd get telling you that you are female if you really are a female and vise versa. With gay people, male would get the female chemicals in the brain ( i forgot the name).
So medication MAY help but most likey therapy.

Better beaten up here than burning in Hell, I'm a loving mother.
whatever works for you.

i don't want you to twist my words, so i'll spell it out

in the animal kingdom, there are some individuals that are 'born gay' they have homosexual behaviour. due to the prenatal hormones and stuff.
right.
so what i said was NOT because it's ok for animals, it's ok in humans.

but...it happens in nature all over the animal kingdom.

That's exactly what it means minerva...*sigh*
But thanks for clearing it out. I didn't twist anything...I'm too bad at that.

i agree with Dam3eti, it's the environment that engourage homosexuality...


those people who are born different, u can recognize them, not by the acts only, but by the looks, voice, etc...


if 1 of my sons turned out gay, i'd kill him :)
(or at least, that's the first thought that will come into my mind)

I'd raise him in a way that he will be a real man. If he grows up and acts not straight, then it is my failure.

i agree with Dam3eti, it's the environment that engourage homosexuality...


those people who are born different, u can recognize them, not by the acts only, but by the looks, voice, etc...


if 1 of my sons turned out gay, i'd kill him :)
(or at least, that's the first thought that will come into my mind)
no it's not. ever watched billy elliot the movie? a guy who's got a very very macho background and turns out to be a ballet loving gay boy? lots of stories are like that.

Ya'll should watch 2:37

I'd raise him in a way that he will be a real man. If he grows up and acts not straight, then it is my failure.
This is why so many gay men's fathers disown their sons and why their mothers never stop loving them.

Some how, fathers measure their success at fatherhood by their male child's sexuality and machoness meter.

If he turns out to be gay, the father feels ashamed. The mother understands and it seems that it will take much much much more of ANYTHING for a mother to turn against her children.

I have a question. To the people who said they'd take their child to a mental institution, is that still done in the ME?

I know the institutions here in Australia won't accept them as its not considered an illness.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html

who says a gay man is not a real man? there are lots of gay men doing 'real man' jobs like builders, engineers, pilots, policemen etc. not all gay men are effeminate. if it's something brought on by nature, there's very little you can do about it. just love your kids, and help them to turn out the best way they can with what nature has given them.

I have a question. To the people who said they'd take their child to a mental institution, is that still done in the ME?

I know the institutions here in Australia won't accept them as its not considered an illness.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html
not only in Australia, but in many other countries. over here, if a mother takes her son to a shrink for being gay, ok he'll get counselling to see if it's 'only a phase'. and if the mother keeps on insisting, then she'll be the one undergoing therapy lol.

I'm not sure if its a nurture thing either. In the other thread in politics I mentions I had a lesbian friend. She has two older sisters who are married and have children, unless I have evidence that she was treated different from the other sisters, I can't support that homosexuality occurs because how someone was raised.

homosexuality is misunderstood in ME & Islamic society

I'm not sure if its a nurture thing either. In the other thread in politics I mentions I had a lesbian friend. She has two older sisters who are married and have children, unless I have evidence that she was treated different from the other sisters, I can't support that homosexuality occurs because how someone was raised.
i know a girl who's a lesbian because of the way she was raised. her dad was a bus driver, and she was around bus driving men from a very early age. her mannerisms, her way of talking was all 'male'. she even used male deodorant and wore male style clothing. a real tomboy, never was into boys as a love interest but into boys as football companions and people to watch the wrestling with. in this case i'd think therapy, in finding her feminine side would really work. i think as time went by and she mixed with us girls, she softened up and found out that there was a missing bit to her. but she was a rare case. most homosexual cases i know are not of a nurture situation but of a nature situation.

I'm 100% agree with Lym- I wuld definitely accept my son or daughter as gay/lesbian but will try my best to send 'em for therapy. If they still unchanged I will accept with open heart.

^what kind of therapy though? cos i agree with therapy when someone has identity issues. but if all therpy points out to 'my son is gay and there is f all you can do' i accept with all my heart.

^ Therapy to see whether it is a "phase" or an "identity issue as they are confused about their sexual orientation". And if they are really gay in this society, they would need to see a shrink to talk about the fears and consequences of how to come out to his family and perhaps friends. Too many are traumatized by this, so at least he has an aid to help him through with stuff we are not good at.

they would need to see a shrink to talk about the fears and consequences of how to come out to his family and perhaps friends.

Lym, do I take it that you will eventually come to terms with a gay son?

As for me, I find this to be quite hypothetical, it is in the same line as: what if your son was an atheist? what if your daughter was a hooker? what if your son decided to become pregnant? (with advance in medicine, this will become possible), what if he or she wants to have a sex change? a bank robber? a serial killer?

I am sure u will find scientific arguments to support all this. At the moment, thanks to hollywood, gayness is associated with class. Tomorrow some idiot will set a trend of boyz becoming preg and our kids will have the same discussions.

I don't believe that homosexuality is a mental disorder so i'll accept him/her for what she is, but being muslims i'd expect him/her to not give into his/her 'needs'.

Lym, do I take it that you will eventually come to terms with a gay son?

I will only come to terms with it if I know he was born a homosexual.

if all parents have killed their gay sons, why do we have lot of them around..i think oman break the record and it is scary.

yesterday I actually saw a guy wearing very very tight dishdash crossing the raod... I wasnt shocked the way he walk/wear...I just pray to God that no one in my family should be like that

Lol, another reason not to have kids!

I think I'd do the best I can, but if nothing works out, I'll accept them.

^ read shai's post three times and then think again.


i am referring to the 'hormone' gays. and no, there is no reversal.

There is nothing called hormone gay... if a person was born with Some physical disorder then usually operate them with the right part .

Example: if it was a girl and was born with a penies , then they simply operate that.

That is physical Gay = Physically disorder.

but if a person was physically healthy then its the enviroment and they way a person is rised make some one Gay/Lesbo.


if a guy start having interast to another guy , then a shrink shall solve that.

There is nothing called hormone gay... if a person was born with Some physical disorder then usually operate them with the right part .

Example: if it was a girl and was born with a penies , then they simply operate that.

That is physical Gay = Physically disorder.

but if a person was physically healthy then its the enviroment and they way a person is rised make some one Gay/Lesbo.

if a guy start having interast to another guy , then a shrink shall solve that.
EvilFire Can u please explain the highlighted/bold point

Kara, as far as I know the States (specifically The American Psychiatric Association) was the first country to remove it from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Based on a piece of research by a Hooker.

No, that's her name; Evelyn Hooker. That was in 1973. Coincidentally the same year that Malta legalized homosexuality...

Widely in the Middle East however, it is still treated as a mental disorder so far as I know. HITMAN is a doctor (I think :think:) he'll probably give us some insight.

lol @ your last comment threads

Why ya'll keep on playing the same recorde all over again?

To be or not to be, this is the question

I didn't even pop them kids yet, and I'm gonna have to figure out what I Think i'd do
IF that situation were to happen? Lol

lol @ your last comment threads

Why ya'll keep on playing the same recorde all over again?

To be or not to be, this is the question

That's no question spirit.
Nobody wants to die. Not entirely. And frankly, how does it...um...link to this 'old record' topic again :D?

Kara, as far as I know the States (specifically The American Psychiatric Association) was the first country to remove it from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Based on a piece of research by a Hooker.

No, that's her name; Evelyn Hooker. That was in 1973. Coincidentally the same year that Malta legalized homosexuality...

Widely in the Middle East however, it is still treated as a mental disorder so far as I know. HITMAN is a doctor (I think :think:) he'll probably give us some insight.
I would think that as time moves on, we start noticing that some things might not really be Mental Disorders. There was a time, about a century ago, where anything that was unexplainable had to be some kind of mental disorder. People were locked up in mental institutes and very often horrible horrible things (that are really experiments) were carried out on them because they were expendable. Outcasts of society.. guinea pigs no one would miss.

How many lobotomies are carried out nowadays as a cure for postnatal depression?

I'm glad homosexuality is off that list. People must have finally realised that it must happen commonly in other animals too. :hmm:

Search the forum & type in gay

Same issues with different titles, the people who have stated their thoughts already are tired of this already. Because it's always the same thing, nothing new.

Thalia, tell 'em about that gay mutton xD would it taste any different?

nabhan, you're right.....homosexuality is not a mental disorder..it's a physiological disorder.

Search the forum & type in gay

Same issues with different titles, the people who have stated their thoughts already are tired of this already. Because it's always the same thing, nothing new.

Thalia, tell 'em about that gay mutton xD would it taste any different?

So what's the *****ing for? Tired of this thread, lock it.
Thought YOU were the freaking mod here :hyper:

Well honestly Thalia, I'm no psychiatrist.
You can go tell the psychiatrists that in most Middle Eastern countries of how it's so cruel to treat homosexual patients and all...
I mean, they must all be retards with fake degrees (and all of course in complete 'denial') for still thinking it's something in the head :hmm:

Lobotomy was a treatment. Treatments change and improve. Homosexuality is not a valid comparison in that case...
Homosexuality is not recognized as 'normal' OR 'abnormal' everywhere. Unlike (for example) depression or dissociative identity disorders, which are fully acknowledged as mental illnesses among all psychiatrists so far as I know.

as i know no gay ppl exist in this world, some r created n born having the female n male parts in them, but in the end an operation is done to correct that n c which parts does the person have most n he be a male or female..

the thing that a male has desires for another male is just soo peverte like.. n so is the female for a female, coz they r agaist the nature n the normal thing that ( god ) created, and Allah subhanah wa taala vanished a whole city becouse the men became gay, n that was in a time of the Prophet ( Lout, alayhi elsalam )

so its a big no for me, n inshlah ill be able to raise them to be men n women.. nothing in the middle.. coz if the media n a lot of people fight n say its okay.. its still not okay.

There is nothing called hormone gay... if a person was born with Some physical disorder then usually operate them with the right part .

Example: if it was a girl and was born with a penies , then they simply operate that.

That is physical Gay = Physically disorder.

but if a person was physically healthy then its the enviroment and they way a person is rised make some one Gay/Lesbo.


if a guy start having interast to another guy , then a shrink shall solve that.
I have in the past provided links to what I'm going to say next. Today, I can't be bothered. So please google it if you doubt it.


There have been studies, and many factors point towards the possibility of a person having a male body and a "female mind".

At certain points in a human's life, there are huge hormone changes that take place. Right at the beginning in the womb, about the ages of 8-14 and a little further on at adulthood.

All fetus's start off the same. Then, their sex is determined. Their sex, not their sexuality.

If you look at two 8 year old children, male and female, they are extremely similar except of their sexual organs which haven't even matured yet.
Then girls become girlish.. boys become boyish. Boys get a deeper voice, facial hair etc.. the body and the mind become adult masculine.

Do you really think that this happens in the same degree to everyone equally?
We know how the body differs from one person to another.. what about the mind?

I don't think people actively choose to be gay, choose to start living a lie, a struggle, choose to be outcasts etc.. and I'm not sure you can 'cure' someone who feels like a woman trapped in a man's body. What makes you attracted to a man or woman? Your body? Or your mind?

Maybe we say mind, because we think that that could be something easy to change.

I just know, it must be hell for them. For those who feel trapped.

So what's the *****ing for? Tired of this thread, lock it.
Thought YOU were the freaking mod here :hyper:

Well honestly Thalia, I'm no psychiatrist.
You can go tell the psychiatrists that in most Middle Eastern countries of how it's so cruel to treat homosexual patients and all...
I mean, they must all be retards with fake degrees (and all of course in complete 'denial') for still thinking it's something in the head :hmm:

Lobotomy was a treatment. Treatments change and improve. Homosexuality is not a valid comparison in that case...
Homosexuality is not recognized as 'normal' OR 'abnormal' everywhere. Unlike (for example) depression or dissociative identity disorders, which are fully acknowledged as mental illnesses among all psychiatrists so far as I know.
I was no compairing. I was giving an example of how we usually come forwards with regards to medicine and psychiatry.. not look back 40 years and feel we could still be there.

This is why so many gay men's fathers disown their sons and why their mothers never stop loving them.

Some how, fathers measure their success at fatherhood by their male child's sexuality and machoness meter.

If he turns out to be gay, the father feels ashamed. The mother understands and it seems that it will take much much much more of ANYTHING for a mother to turn against her children.

I wouldn't stop loving him, I'd blame myself not him, but yeah you are right, it would take much more for a mother to turn against him.

I myself have seen two cases where kids have gone "gay" because of the way their parents were raising them. From day 1 until their parents were told it is WRONG to raise a kid that way, they will end up being something they wouldn't like, and the hints were going on and on. Now they're teenagers (which is too late for them to be fixed)
Spirit Maybe homosexuality has a different cause-and-effect in the ME and the Islamic Society ;)

I agree that there are people who were BORN that way, with defects in their bodies, hormones and such, but many others were LED to be that way while they could've been something else.

EvilFire Can u please explain the highlighted/bold point

Sure,

Some times babies born not natural physically or have mental disorders.
For example: a baby girl having pennies. They usually intervene surgically and fix that. So basically this baby was gay as "out of ordinary or not naturally was born".

Now if you have a healthy baby (boy or a girl) and it turned to be gay... Then it has nothing to do with hormones, it’s all how he/she got raised and how bad the environment he is living on affecting on him/her.

But it's not that simple Thalia.
It's not, 'HEY! I found another piece of the puzzle here, we all know it fits'
Some people don't think it fits. And some people do.
That's all I'm saying...It's simply not accurate to say that EVERY SINGLE PSYCHIATRIST should believe homosexual behavior is not an illness of the mind. If they don't, they have their reasons and they're equally rational...We can sort of agree on that I think?

Search the forum & type in gay

Same issues with different titles, the people who have stated their thoughts already are tired of this already. Because it's always the same thing, nothing new.

Thalia, tell 'em about that gay mutton xD would it taste any different?
Oh yes. One in every 10 sheep is gay.

Now if the whole "people share their wives because they eat pork" is true.. just imagine what happens to so many middle easterners who eat a helluva lot of mutton. :hyper:

there is a different between looking gay(girl having a penis or guy having a uterus)and acting gay....(this may be physically obvious)

and

Feeling gay (in their mind)

feeling gay ? :os

I wouldn't stop loving him, I'd blame myself not him, but yeah you are right, it would take much more for a mother to turn against him.

I myself have seen two cases where kids have gone "gay" because of the way their parents were raising them. From day 1 until their parents were told it is WRONG to raise a kid that way, they will end up being something they wouldn't like, and the hints were going on and on. Now they're teenagers (which is too late for them to be fixed)
Spirit Maybe homosexuality has a different cause-and-effect in the ME and the Islamic Society ;)

I agree that there are people who were BORN that way, with defects in their bodies, hormones and such, but many others were LED to be that way while they could've been something else.
ok i need more explanation on what was the parents doing exactly till the boys became gays.... I am serious about this q!! I got a son myself

~cK~ : yes...in their mind, there is something physiologically wrong. from birth. it's not something that was influenced through the environment.
Those who BECOME gay (from living in a certain environment/society) are the one's that are easier to change. The ones that are born that way, it takes YEARS and maybe medication to fix.

when i say feeling gay, i mean they feel that they are in the wrong body. something is wrong with their brain.

I wouldn't stop loving him, I'd blame myself not him, but yeah you are right, it would take much more for a mother to turn against him.

I myself have seen two cases where kids have gone "gay" because of the way their parents were raising them. From day 1 until their parents were told it is WRONG to raise a kid that way, they will end up being something they wouldn't like, and the hints were going on and on. Now they're teenagers (which is too late for them to be fixed)
Spirit Maybe homosexuality has a different cause-and-effect in the ME and the Islamic Society ;)

I agree that there are people who were BORN that way, with defects in their bodies, hormones and such, but many others were LED to be that way while they could've been something else.
As for cause and effect... I'm going to agree here.

It's like homosexuality in a male prison.

ok i need more explanation on what was the parents doing exactly till the boys became gays.... I am serious about this q!! I got a son myself

Its simple:

+Watch your son friends.
+Make sure that he is not abuse sexually.
+Father & mother do their roles.

People make homosexuality a big deal
As simple as that

It's as normal as being 'straight'

spirit,
There was always and will forever be Adam and Eve.
Nobody thinks it was Adam and Steve.
It isn't 'as normal'. Doesn't even scratch the barrel of 'normal'.
Whether you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or whatever..

Its simple:

+Watch your son friends.
+Make sure that he is not abuse sexually.
+Father & mother do their roles.
ahhhh ok gotchha.....


I am really making sure no body is touching him...i will just kill who ever try to hurt him:6:

As for cause and effect... I'm going to agree here.

It's like homosexuality in a male prison.
there are studies that claim that the there is a continuum line where on one side we have 100% homosexual, and on the other side 100% hetero.
most people do not lie on the extremes but are somewhere in between. be it on the 10,20,25,50 or 100% mark.....anywhere.
homosexuality in a male prison is a temporary phase (like you said cause -effect), when they come out, they do not remain gay.
i'm remembering the book 'midnight express' which is a true story (you know of the movie) the author had a homosexual experience, and he mentions it in the book. obviously it was left out in the film...

r-o-f-l @ the mutton bit. glad giraffes are not eaten too.......

Adam & Eve itself is arguable

Those terms homosexual, hetrosexual, bisexual, etc....are just misleading.

A feeling a feeling

Abnormal? Nah, it ain'

Just let it be

Why talk about fixing someone for being who he is, plus them talks about 'his environment made him gay' make me laugh; because they don't make sense at all.

^How are Adam and Eve arguable? I thought you were still some sort of a gnostic. You believe in 'something', don't you?

Labelling something as 'moral', 'immoral' or 'normal' and 'abnormal' depends on one's definition of 'normal'. If your definition of 'normal' is: everything that I'm not involved in but still exists, then fine. People who have other definitions of it are not deserving of either ridicule or laughter, my open-minded friend ;)

and life goes on

lol..spirit, you're funny:XD:
i have to agree with threadlike though:)

it is FAR from "normal". ;)
and really spirit, it IS true that the environment can shape you..it's starts from childhood (not birth). That is one case.

I have in the past provided links to what I'm going to say next. Today, I can't be bothered. So please google it if you doubt it.


There have been studies, and many factors point towards the [b]possibility of a person having a male body and a "female mind".


There are possibilities that a man gets pregnant too but that is called un-natural or not normal and it’s not common.

Parent are the main people blamed if their children turn gay/lesbian child is a disabled person and parents are there to guide and define what’s right & what’s wrong.

If you give birth to a child and teach him that killing person gives honour and it’s his right... Then you will end up a child with that means.

Since you are not bothered or lazy to discuss this again then I won’t bother to have further discussion with you regarding this.

I will only come to terms with it if I know he was born a homosexual.

So you believe one can be born a homosexual, even though there is no evidence from the Quran, Sunna, or science?

So you believe one can be born a homosexual, even though there is no evidence from the Quran, Sunna, or science?

Is there a particular evidence from the Quran, Suna or science for everything which exists in this world? :rolleyes:

Is there a particular evidence from the Quran, Suna or science for everything which exists in this world? :rolleyes:

Quran has covered every aspect of our lives. It just needs someone with knowledge to interpret and understand. As for myself am not a religious scholar, or a scientist, I base my discussions on my limited knowledge.

Quran has statements of general terms, so it can't be particular. In the book, it will say something along the lines that God has "created creatures", but the scripture does not go on to say in detail what those creatures were.

Science is not there yet. There are some studies which indicate it is something you might be born with and others don't. It is a Grey area and that is why I am not sure.

I do agree that the act of homosexuality in Islam is wrong (getting physical with a man) but I am not sure whether being attracted to men is wrong...if you don't act on it. From a Muslim man in that position, he should just be strong enough to resist the temptation of getting physical with a man and await his rewards in the hereafter.

Quran has covered every aspect of our lives. It just needs someone with knowledge to interpret and understand. As for myself am not a religious scholar, or a scientist, I base my discussions on my limited knowledge.

I really agree with this. :yes:

Quran has statements of general terms, so it can't be particular.

Quran is not written like a novel, where things happen in sequence or randomly. It challenges your mind and the only way to understand it is to read and research deeper and reflect on it. If you ask a non Muslim who reverted after reading Quran they will tell you the effort they have put to finally get convinced of the msg. Unfortunately, we Muslims since we are born into the religion do not pay much attention to it. Thats why we see many great scholars of Islam are Muslim Reverts or non-Arabs.

Quran is not written like a novel, where things happen in sequence or randomly. It challenges your mind and the only way to understand it is to read and research deeper and reflect on it. If you ask a non Muslim who reverted after reading Quran they will tell you the effort they have put to finally get convinced of the msg. Unfortunately, we Muslims since we are born into the religion do not pay much attention to it. Thats why we see many great scholars of Islam are Muslim Reverts or non-Arabs.

That's irrelevant to the point you're trying to make. I know all that but my point is we can't rely on the Quran for particular evidence of everything that exists in this world. It is of General terms. You want specific, you look at science.

Quran is not written like a novel, where things happen in sequence or randomly. It challenges your mind and the only way to understand it is to read and research deeper and reflect on it. If you ask a non Muslim who reverted after reading Quran they will tell you the effort they have put to finally get convinced of the msg. Unfortunately, we Muslims since we are born into the religion do not pay much attention to it. Thats why we see many great scholars of Islam are Muslim Reverts or non-Arabs.

You are a genius!! You are 100% right! It makes total sense what you are saying. really. mashallah. I coudn't have said it better myself.
It's not written in an easily understandable way. It is supposed to make you THINK..and only the ones that God chooses to guide would understand the true meanings behind it. The Quran touches everyone is a different way..but it's the intention that counts. God knows what's in our hearts.

If everything was made easy for us, why are we even here?

(this is going towards in Islamic discussion:cute:)

we can't rely on the Quran for particular evidence of everything that exists in this world. It is of General terms. You want specific, you look at science.


You need to distinguish between Quran and science first. Are they mutually exclusive?

That's irrelevant to the point you're trying to make. I know all that but my point is we can't rely on the Quran for particular evidence of everything that exists in this world. It is of General terms. You want specific, you look at science.

That's Darwin's way of thinking. Now look at how people think of where they come from. Some people believe in Evolution and that we evolved from apes. Now science is not always something you have to prove on something. Darwin really believes that he proved that with 'science'. The Quran (religion in general) told us that we are from Adam and Eve.

Science it not everything. The Quran has everything and it is complete. It has science, math, history, etc....it leaves out nothing. So Don't always rely on science.

Lym, some of the things that are in the Quran is science related. Some of that is only proven today. We go, "ohhh that's why it says this ..and this..." back then not everything was understood but it was all writen and there and for a good reason. That's why i trust that everything in the Quran is for our own good. We don't always need science to prove that.

Those people who always talk about science and need to prove things with science, they remind me of athiests. really. It's like they are challenging God's creations and questioning them.

You are a genius!! You are 100% right! It makes total sense what you are saying. really. mashallah. I coudn't have said it better myself.
It's not written in an easily understandable way. It is supposed to make you THINK..and only the ones that God chooses to guide would understand the true meanings behind it. The Quran touches everyone is a different way..but it's the intention that counts. God knows what's in our hearts.

If everything was made easy for us, why are we even here?

(this is going towards in Islamic discussion:cute:)


Basically we are talking about whether a child can be born homosexual, and the clear answer is NO, unless someone comes up with a credible evidence.

Its true, on the outset for an Arabic speaker the Quran looks simple, but actually its not. Every letter needs to be interpreted for a better understanding.

You need to distinguish between Quran and science first. Are they mutually exclusive?

Okay, not to go off topic, but it seems you guys are not getting what I am trying to say. I agree that science is part of the Quran, but it is not a science book. Neither is science black and white or complete. However, it is the only field that deals with particular creatures; cells, the anatomy of certain animals, the existence of certain creatures, identifiable hormones and bodily function etc. Science is controversial in some instances, but it is solid in others.

Quran deals with such stuff in general terms! If it dealt with every scientific finding in the world so far, it would not be merely 600 pages, perhaps 60,000 ;)

Anyways, since we are not on the same page, I am done discussing this as it is all off topic.

Okay, not to go off topic, but it seems you guys are not getting what I am trying to say. I agree that science is part of the Quran, but it is not a science book. Neither is science black and white or complete. However, it is the only field that deals with particular creatures; cells, the anatomy of certain animals, the existence of certain creatures, identifiable hormones and bodily function etc. Science is controversial in some instances, but it is solid in others.

Quran deals with such stuff in general terms! If it dealt with every scientific finding in the world so far, it would not be merely 600 pages, perhaps 60,000 ;)

Anyways, since we are not on the same page, I am done discussing this as it is all off topic.

I get what you're saying, but it's not going to be flat out written and easy for us to read and understand. It's written in a very unqiue language and it's not easy to interpret it. There is more answers to what we read than what we think.
All will reveal itself on Judgement Day. All questions will be answered.

now let's get back to the main topic:XD:

Quran deals with such stuff in general terms!

Not to divert from the main topic, Sure I see your point, that is very true, but the only way to get the true meaning is not to stop at the top (general terms) layer, we need to go deeper.

Its the top layer, you must peel it to get a true meaning.

Exactly! Mashallah 3aleik wallah:)

That is very true.