how different are they? iv heard some people tell me they r very much alike with very little differences that dosnt have believes involved in, n some told me they r different in believes.. but they didnt provide me with examples..

so i was wondering id that could be clarified for me.. or if a site was provided to make things clearer for me..

thanks a lot..

pls pls pls dont attach each other! if it gets that far! i dont wana be a reason for people to fight

They are pretty much similar accept for some minor differences.

You can find the differences here:



http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/ibadhiyah/ibadhisunni.html

They are pretty much similar accept for some minor differences.

You can find the differences here:



http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/ibadhiyah/ibadhisunni.html

I must say, this one made a WHOLE lot of sense to me:

"The Ibadhis follow a method of allegorical interpretation of anthropomorphistic expressions in the Qu'ran."

I am a hopeless non-believer, I know, but I still scratch my head at the idea that anyone could think anything else...

This one also makes more sense to me:

"Most Ibadhis held that the Quran is God's created word revealed in succession to the Prophet, peace be upon him. It is not a quality of Allah either of essense or of action."

Our differences are, as Pygmalion said, minor.

I like what Sheikh Khalili once said when he was asked about the Sunni-Ibadhi difference in 'Seeing Allah'. He said that these differences are there, but warned of making the same mistake other scholars have where they debated and even entered into deep arguments on these matters.

Most if not all the things mentioned in the website show that the differences are either of the Unseen, or differences in interpretation.

I must say, this one made a WHOLE lot of sense to me:

"The Ibadhis follow a method of allegorical interpretation of anthropomorphistic expressions in the Qu'ran."

I am a hopeless non-believer, I know, but I still scratch my head at the idea that anyone could think anything else...

Thats because you're making the same old mistake of using referents without antecedents.

:hyper:

Jeff,

Scholars before us have studied the religion and developed different teachings, we now see what we find more logical and go by it.

Others might find that the Sunni teaching regarding the interpretation of the Qur'an more convincing, and they go by that. Others see the Ibadhi teaching more logical, and go by that. Sects complete each other, too bad some take one sect and just stick to it, like it's a religion of its own.

um albanin posted great stuff about the Ibadhi sect in this thread.. ibadhi (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41777&page=2)

^ That thread was very informative. Masha'Allah. Jazaha Allah Khair um al banin.

Jeff,

Scholars before us have studied the religion and developed different teachings, we now see what we find more logical and go by it.

Others might find that the Sunni teaching regarding the interpretation of the Qur'an more convincing, and they go by that. Others see the Ibadhi teaching more logical, and go by that. Sects complete each other, too bad some take one sect and just stick to it, like it's a religion of its own.

Sure, I'm just giving my uneducated outsiders reaction.

The idea that "God's hand" is literally a hand or "God's throne" is literally a throne seems very strange to me, so Ibadhi view seems conforms more with my understanding, that's all.

And the same goes for the created character of the Quran. I'd love someday to hear a discussion between a Sunni and an Ibadhi on this question because I just don't understand the meaning of the Sunni view. But again, that's just my outsider's reaction.

But I'm perfectly willing to concede that if I heard a more in depth discussion, I might change my mind.

In simple words, Ahlu Alhaq ( Ibadhis) have teh purest creed and moderate among Muslim sects.

I have to prove that in sha' Allah.

If you look at
1- their interpretation of Quran
2-The Ahadith(narrations ) of the prophet.
3- The concept of God. Nothing is like him..

This is in short and I may elaborate more later on.

Thats because you're making the same old mistake of using referents without antecedents.

:hyper:

I was about to point out the same observation.

thanks 4 the input n links

Toomuchat....for the hundredth time, it's not sector, it's SECT!!!!

I've always felt that the differences are very small. To me, Ibadhism is 90% Shi3i in origin and 90% Sunni in practice :D

I'm familiar with some of the differences in fiqh (laws/practices) between Ibadhis and Sunnis, but I don't know much about the differences in aqeeda (beliefs), although the major differences are the aqeeda ones, I suppose.

I've always felt that the differences are very small. To me, Ibadhism is 90% Shi3i in origin and 90% Sunni in practice :D
Really? I can hardly find any resemblance between Ibadhis and Shiites. Tell me more!

Are we ? :D . Practising like an Ibathi doesn't mean thinking like Ibathi as well. I am Ibathi in practising but I take all of the sects thinking and interpretation of some Islamic laws.

Really? I can hardly find any resemblance between Ibadhis and Shiites. Tell me more!

Well, there are some similarities in prayer, but I said that the origin is Shi3i, not the practice which is more Sunni. The origin of the Ibadhi sect was an off-shoot from "Shi3at Ali" at the time of the first divisions in Islam. But the practice and 3qeeda is very different, I agree.

I don't understand why people say there is no much difference between two of them .. I see so much difference really .. and I am against those who say that there isn't much! :os

Can anyone say anything about shaving the beard please .. ?

^I agree ,, there is so much differances .. specially in believes :)

]Can anyone say anything about shaving the beard please .. ?

It amazes me how people find the most irrelavant things to create a discussion about.

Even among Sunnis there are different views of beard shaving. But one thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that if there are other more important things missing, having a beard won't save you.

There is a big difference on ..

What I've understood from the link provided is that ..

Ibadhi's say .. If the sinner isn't forgiven .. they will be remain in hell forever ..

Sunni says .. if the sinner made a sin and is not as much .. they will be in hell for a while and God will mercy them later on ..

Anybody please correct me if I am wrong or understood it wrong from the link .. ?

Anyway .. if what I said is true .. than there is obviously a huge difference .. this is hell we are talking about! .. if they say we all Muslims are the same .. than this is one major reason for non-Muslims to prove us wrong!

I do like the Sunni style on this one though! :p
More reasonable .. God knows!

and guys .. again .. what are the rules in each sect. about the beards ?!

;1088923']I don't understand why people say there is no much difference between two of them .. I see so much difference really .. and I am against those who say that there isn't much! :os

Can anyone say anything about shaving the beard please .. ?

^I agree ,, there is so much differances .. specially in believes :)

Like what ? Enlighten us please.

It amazes me how people find the most irrelavant things to create a discussion about.

Even among Sunnis there are different views of beard shaving. But one thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that if there are other more important things missing, having a beard won't save you.

What if .. a person is not committing any sins .. but shaving his beard .. ? :dev:

Like what ? Enlighten us please.

;1088966']There is a big difference on ..

What I've understood from the link provided is that ..

Ibadhi's say .. If the sinner isn't forgiven .. they will be remain in hell forever ..

Sunni says .. if the sinner made a sin and is not as much .. they will be in hell for a while and God will mercy them later on ..

Anybody please correct me if I am wrong or understood it wrong from the link .. ?

Anyway .. if what I said is true .. than there is obviously a huge difference .. this is hell we are talking about! .. if they say we all Muslims are the same .. than this is one major reason for non-Muslims to prove us wrong!

I do like the Sunni style on this one though! :p
More reasonable .. God knows!

and guys .. again .. what are the rules in each sect. about the beards ?!

I made it bold .. so that you can read it better ..

El-Rey, believes like for example:
abathi's believe that the holy Quran is a creature.
they also believe that every person who did a mistake will go to hell & stay there for ever even if he was muslim

I know there are many abathi's here,, so la taklooni please :XD:

;1088966']There is a big difference on ..

What I've understood from the link provided is that ..

Ibadhi's say .. If the sinner isn't forgiven .. they will be remain in hell forever ..

Sunni says .. if the sinner made a sin and is not as much .. they will be in hell for a while and God will mercy them later on ..

Anybody please correct me if I am wrong or understood it wrong from the link .. ?

Anyway .. if what I said is true .. than there is obviously a huge difference .. this is hell we are talking about! .. if they say we all Muslims are the same .. than this is one major reason for non-Muslims to prove us wrong!

I do like the Sunni style on this one though! :p
More reasonable .. God knows!

and guys .. again .. what are the rules in each sect. about the beards ?!


I think you are right in this. However, for me this doesn't make a difference cos I should be concerned on my good deeds in this life rather than being in hell forever or being in it for a while then go to heaven. And do all sunnis believe in this too ? regarding the beard, I think Ibathis emphsise that shaving the bird is a sin and sunnis differ in opinions about it as UK said.

You might want to add praying into that!

Since most muslims pray 5 times a day .. and prayers are considered to be the most important thing a muslim must do in order to be a good muslim that can enter God's paradise

.. and even though we all call our selves United Muslims .. even in the prayers we have different rules ..
Sunni's fold their hands up above their stomach and move up and down their finger when they are reading out the "tahiyat" .. and Ibadhi's believe that this totally destroys the prayer rules because it moves your mind from praying and distracts you!

El-Rey, believes like for example:
abathi's believe that the holy Quran is a creature.
they also believe that every person who did a mistake will go to hell & stay there for ever even if he was muslim

I know there are many abathi's here,, so la taklooni please :XD:

I am Ibathi, and regarding if the holy quran is creature or words of God. I believe it's both. Created by God and carries God's words. I know many Ibathis disagree with me in this and I already had a discussion with some of them about this but this is what I think. The problem is that some people who are born in a specific sect, they defend it so much even though they know nothing about it. It's my sect and it's right. and I see it stupid.

I am Ibathi, and regarding if the holy quran is creature or words of God. I believe it's both. Created by God and carries God's words. I know many Ibathis disagree with me in this and I already had a discussion with some of them about this but this is what I think. The problem is that some people who are born in a specific sect, they defend it so much even though they know nothing about it. It's my sect and it's right. and I see it stupid.

no i didnt defend my sect,, there are many things i dont agree on in it & i also find many things in shee'a very interesting & quite good & i believe in them,, as well as abathi ..

except for these .. i just cant agree that the holy Quran is a creature ..

;1088978']You might want to add praying into that!

Since most muslims pray 5 times a day .. and prayers are considered to be the most important thing a muslim must do in order to be a good muslim that can enter God's paradise

.. and even though we all call our selves United Muslims .. even in the prayers we have different rules ..
Sunni's fold their hands up above their stomach and move up and down their finger when they are reading out the "tahiyat" .. and Ibadhi's believe that this totally destroys the prayer rules because it moves your mind from praying and distracts you!

And I don't see this as a big difference. Praying is mostly what youu say in your heart. And since the number of raka'at and time of prayer doesn't differ so it's no big deal how you pray to God. We all say the same words in praying.

;1088969']What if .. a person is not committing any sins .. but shaving his beard .. ? :dev:

I don't know, do you think God would send a righteous man to Hell just because he shaved his beard? :)

The good thing is that both stand together in a prayer. An Ibadhi wouldn't mind praying behind and a Sunni and a Sunni wouldn't mind praying behind an Ibadhi. Thats for the majority at least.
Difference in Ijtihaad can be found everywhere! Even amongst Sunni's themselves!

I don't know, do you think God would send a righteous man to Hell just because he shaved his beard? :)

Ibadhi's .. believe that it's a sin .. and sins are obviously forbidden in Islam .. and God will punish any sinners

Sunni's fold their hands up above their stomach and move up and down their finger when they are reading out the "tahiyat" .. and Ibadhi's believe that this totally destroys the prayer rules because it moves your mind from praying and distracts you!

- Maliki Sunnis don't fold their hands.
- Moving the finger isn't something the prayer depends on.

The good thing is that both stand together in a prayer. An Ibadhi wouldn't mind praying behind and a Sunni and a Sunni wouldn't mind praying behind an Ibadhi. Thats for the majority at least.
Difference in Ijtihaad can be found everywhere! Even amongst Sunni's themselves!

Yes .. that's the good thing ..

except for another sect. which I don't think believe allows that ..

[AB] it is not a MUST that Sunni's fold their hands in prayer :no: That's one thing that everybody mistakes in

;1088991']Yes .. that's the good thing ..

except for another sect. which I don't think believe allows that ..
I don't think any sect doesn't allow praying in groups with a different sect.
Once we all prayed together, the Imam was an Ibadhi, I and my friend who's a Shii prayer behind him.

[AB] it is not a MUST that Sunni's fold their hands in prayer :no: That's one thing that everybody mistakes in

But alot of Sunni's do .. and a lot of Ibadhi's believe that any unappropriate move made in prayers makes the prayer not sent to God correctly ..

;1088989']Ibadhi's .. believe that it's a sin .. and sins are obviously forbidden in Islam .. and God will punish any sinners

If that's what you believe then don't shave your beards.
Others believe it isn't, so they will shave.

It reminds me of the face veil debate. Some say it is Haram for a woman to uncover her face, some say it is not. If you say it is, then cover your face. If you say it is not, then no need to.

But if we start arguing over things like shaving bears or covering faces, then we'll be easily distracted from more important things. I'm sure I don't want to.

If you shave, fine. If you don't shave, fine. Since there are two different teachings, people can go with whatever they choose. No harm Insha'Allah.

no i didnt defend my sect,, there are many things i dont agree on in it & i also find many things in shee'a very interesting & quite good & i believe in them,, as well as abathi ..

except for these .. i just cant agree that the holy Quran is a creature ..

Very interesting about the first part and believing in different sects, I do this as well.About the quran being creature here are what Ibathis think but first you have t undertand that the quran is created or not this doesn't make any difference to us, I mean it shouldn't cos this thing is ghaibi.

Ibathis say that in this world there is always a Created and Creator. God is The Creator so anything else is created including the holy quran.

Now you'll say how God create his words ? Ibathi say that if we said that quran is the words of God then we will think that God said them which will lead us to think that God Has a mouth which will also lead us to imagine God as a creature which contradicts with the cerse in the Quran: نور على نور ( Light upon light ).

I mentioned the verse when God Has talked to Moses PBUH, and they said that God Created a sound to talk to Moses cos when Moses asked God to see him He told him to look at the mountain which was shaking. So he couldn't see him, maybe because God is so Mighty and his Divinity os so powerful that the mountain couldn't bear.

We will say maybe alot cos this thing is beyond our modest mind. Human beings have limited powers. As we can't look see over 1000 miles, so is our mind can't think in things beyond its ability. And what matters more to us that Quran is creature or words of God this shouldn't be a difference in sects, it's difference in persons only and it shouldn''t affect our faith in God and shouldn't call other sects faulse cos they think differently.

now is that the deal? folding their hands or not ?:dev:
you know whats the problem with us muslims? we care about these tiny things instead of caring about the most important issues that threat islam in this entire arabian world.

I don't think any sect doesn't allow praying in groups with a different sect.
Once we all prayed together, the Imam was an Ibadhi, I and my friend who's a Shii prayer behind him.

I guess some Shii are all different too ..
Because some Shii don't even pray together except if the Imam is very trusted and well known ..

Anyway .. the great Nosa opened this thread to discuss to sects only .. Ibadhi's and Sunni's ..

;1088994']But alot of Sunni's do .. and a lot of Ibadhi's believe that any unappropriate move made in prayers makes the prayer not sent to God correctly ..
lol [AB] u're comparing an inch to a foot in a metric scale.

What's appropriate and not in Sunni's way of praying is up to Sunni's sect to decide, not any other sect :D

I am just comparing what each Muslim sect think of each other's rulings :shy: lol .. sorrry

Very interesting about the first part and believing in different sects, I do this as well.About the quran being creature here are what Ibathis think but first you have t undertand that the quran is created or not this doesn't make any difference to us, I mean it shouldn't cos this thing is ghaibi.

Ibathis say that in this world there is always a Created and Creator. God is The Creator so anything else is created including the holy quran.

Now you'll say how God create his words ? Ibathi say that if we said that quran is the words of God then we will think that God said them which will lead us to think that God Has a mouth which will also lead us to imagine God as a creature which contradicts with the cerse in the Quran: نور على نور ( Light upon light ).

I mentioned the verse when God Has talked to Moses PBUH, and they said that God Created a sound to talk to Moses cos when Moses asked God to see him He told him to look at the mountain which was shaking. So he couldn't see him, maybe because God is so Mighty and his Divinity os so powerful that the mountain couldn't bear.

We will say maybe alot cos this thing is beyond our modest mind. Human beings have limited powers. As we can't look see over 1000 miles, so is our mind can't think in things beyond its ability. And what matters more to us that Quran is creature or words of God this shouldn't be a difference in sects, it's difference in persons only and it shouldn''t affect our faith in God and shouldn't call other sects faulse cos they think differently.

I agree with you on that ,, i think that the most important thing is to think with your heart about the issues & study them before believing in things just because your sect which you were brn with say so ...

I also thing that islam this time is from out to in ... unlike the prophet days,, where the light of islam was from their inner soul to the outer world in each muslim that days.

now is that the deal? folding their hands or not ?:dev:
you know whats the problem with us muslims? we care about these tiny things instead of caring about the most important issues that threat islam in this entire arabian world.


So sadly true.

Is the Quran a creature or not?
Better Question: Are you following its teachings?

Do we fold our hands or not?
Better Question: What's on our mind when we pray? - or worse (Do we even pray?)

Do you shave your beard or not?
Better Question: Are you following other Sunnah like treating people well?


Too bad we keep on being superficial.

UmK .. What the hell ?!!
I am not making shaving a beard or folding hands a big deal like what you are trying to show others ..

It is important for many men to know whether actually shaving is a sin or not! Everyone should try their best to avoid making sins! and if some people consider shaving beard is a sin .. than we must investigate if it is actually a sin or not! And that what I was trying to do!

I also and many others believe a sin is a huge mistake to do! .. so why add them all up when you can avoid them!

I'm starting to sound inconsiderate aren't I. :shy:

You know, let me tell you something.

I'm not a guy to care about whether shaving is Haram or not, but maybe one day I'll have a son, should I be nagging on him to have a beard in order to become a good Muslim? So here, I think, no. He can be a good Muslim without having a beard. And thankfully, many scholars believe it isn't a must to have a beard.

Will those Sunnis who believe it is a sin think I'm sinning for not teaching my son the importance of the beard? Of course they will.

So here, I understand the Ibadhi approach to the beard. Because Sunnis also believe it is a sin. I understand how imporant it is to both.

But I still don't see how it is important to hold on to something that will not be of great benefit!

Imagine this. A Muslim Biologist, who is religion, is talking about his researchs (I think on Youtube). Impressing isn't it? It would make me very happy to see that an Arab Muslim got this far.

Then you read a comment saying: Whatever, he doesn't even have a beard!

:no: If only we could send viruses to YouTube comment-ers.

^Nicely said...
I (as usual) could not have said it better.

I dont see lot of difference either

in the end we all believe on allah and Quran

I always thought it's in him :rolleyes:

As the starter of the thread asked..

Thread is locked!