TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday that Israel is dying and that its 60th anniversary celebrations are an attempt to prevent its "annihilation."

He spoke hours after President Bush arrived in Israel for the anniversary celebrations.

"The Zionist (Israeli) regime is dying," said Ahmadinejad during a speech in northern Iran. "The criminals assume that by holding celebrations ... they can save the sinister Zionist regime from death and annihilation."

Ahmadinejad used an Arabic word, ismihlal, that can also be translated as destruction, death and collapse.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-05-14-iran-israel_N.htm

Here he comes, walking down the Street........hey, hey it's the Mahdi

What I always find funny about the whole thing. The words are not minced. The terms are certain.

And there are all these people in the world who seem mystified why the Israelies take measures to protect themselves.

ismihlal ROFL

Well, honestly I wish what he says comes true :rolleyes:

But, what's upsetting you about him expressing his opinion about israel future? Aren't you with freedom of speech ? Besides, what does Mahdi has to do with this ? Did Ahmednajad anyhow mention Mahdi now ? Do you mean by Mahdi like when Bush said God gave me the sign to Invade Iraq ?

No, he means the Madhi which Ahmedinejad is so eagerly waiting for.

Him and a few hundred million others. There is no need to insult their faith just because you don't like one man's politics. Low.

When the mans politics might involve anhillation of a lot of people to speed up the arrival of the Mahdi, then it's everyone's business.

Hi Mim,

See Wudjabs post for the precise place where I was coming from

PS Out of interest, how many Shia would want someone to deliberately create the conditions that were specifically aimed about bringing the return of the Mahdi?

And then tell me how many sunnis, wahabbis etc would want the above?

After all, Muslims are all one

Thanks and hope all well

Mr T

PSS Am I right in thinking that the President of Iran would never make a Political decision that was at odds with the Koran or hadiths? If that was the case, I guess I can never criticise his Politics........

This president is poking the bear purposefully. First he gets these threats from Clinton saying that she would 'obliterate' Iran if she were president and they tried to attack Israel. It looks like he's just using the next public opportunity to come back at that with another sassy retort.
Something veeeery shifty abt this man!

No president is infallible, however he chooses to justify his policies. When the LRA in Uganda kill people in the name of Jesus....we don't blame Jesus.

As for belief in an apocalyptic end to the world, preceded by the arrival or return of a spiritual leader, that's also what Jews and Christians believe. It's also what Sunni Muslims believe, although most don't have the same concept of the Mahdi per se.

Ahmedinejad is a bit of a nutter in my estimation. But please don't insult all these people's simple religious beliefs just because you don't like his policies It's childish and beneath you. Why not just take it on the chin and say sorry to all our Shia members?

That Iranian president is simply a loon. Best to put him in a straight jacket so he can babble incohenrently to someone who gives a rat's ***. He's nothing but a piece of trash.

Get of the fence Mari and say what you think, why doncha? :hmm:

He and Bush could be roommates for all I care. :) :)

Mim,

I am surprised at you - let me help you 'spot the difference'!

My point is completely and soley and specifically aimed at the President of Iran.

My point is specifically and soley and completely focused on pointing out the scary fact that the President of Iran (allegedly) seems to want to deliberately create the conditions that would bring about the return of the Mahdi

I have ZERO issue with the Shia belief in the return of the Mahdi..........but I do have issue with the President of Iran in connection with what I have outlined above

To quote someone famous, "Hope is clear"!

Now, let's get back to respect:

Out of interest, how many Shia would respect someone who wanted to deliberately create the conditions that were specifically aimed about bringing the return of the Mahdi?

And then tell me how many sunnis, wahabbis etc would respect that person?

Mr T

Yeah, I get that Mr T. But your first post ended with mocking the Mahdi. Which was unnecessary. So why not just say sorry? Be the bigger man, T.

No president is infallible, however he chooses to justify his policies. When the LRA in Uganda kill people in the name of Jesus....we don't blame Jesus.

As for belief in an apocalyptic end to the world, preceded by the arrival or return of a spiritual leader, that's also what Jews and Christians believe. It's also what Sunni Muslims believe, although most don't have the same concept of the Mahdi per se.

Ahmedinejad is a bit of a nutter in my estimation. But please don't insult all these people's simple religious beliefs just because you don't like his policies It's childish and beneath you. Why not just take it on the chin and say sorry to all our Shia members?

I think there IS some unfair conflation going on, but I think Ahmadinejad is extreme even by Khomeinist standards...

The latest news out of Iran is of HARDLINE clerics getting upset at Ahmadi because he was virtually saying that the Mahdi was backing the policies of his government and guiding them from behind the scenes!

Of course, this means that you are blaming any failures of the government (raging inflation and unemployment, for example) on the Mahdi!

I was listening to an Iranian author on the radio a couple of days ago saying that those who have spoken with Ahmadinejad privately say he is convinced that he will be the last leader of Iran before the Mahdi returns to lead the world revolution.

Couple this with Khomeini's statement that he Iran could all be destroyed as far as he was concerned as long as Islam triumphed and it IS kind of worrying...

Indeed, a lot of things Ahmedinejad says are worrying. Incidentally, the "conditions for the return of the Mahdi" are a matter of debate: I remember reading a piece by an Iraqi scholar about how Islamic society needed to be in a better state of peace and morality in order to bring this about.

It is worth remembering that Ahmedinejad is not any kind of religious scholar, and that even the spiritual leaders of Iran are less regarded in mainstream Shia religious circles than those in the centre of the Shia community, which is Iraq. For an authoritative religious view in Shia jurisprudence, I'd suggest you refer to Sayyid Ali al Sistani, who is generally regarded as the most senior scholar in that sect. He also has a very informative website, in several languages: www.sistani.org

Indeed, a lot of things Ahmedinejad says are worrying. Incidentally, the "conditions for the return of the Mahdi" are a matter of debate: I remember reading a piece by an Iraqi scholar about how Islamic society needed to be in a better state of peace and morality in order to bring this about.

I agree, there are a whole range of opinions about this.

But the fanatical mindset tends to discount all interpretations but its own as "unIslamic" and this tends to make for dreadful problems with governing.

He seems to be rather personable, kind, modest, and incorrupt in his private life...what a shame that he has these odd, stubborn ideas about the intersection of religiosity and the world.

Indeed, a lot of things Ahmedinejad says are worrying. Incidentally, the "conditions for the return of the Mahdi" are a matter of debate: I remember reading a piece by an Iraqi scholar about how Islamic society needed to be in a better state of peace and morality in order to bring this about.

It is worth remembering that Ahmedinejad is not any kind of religious scholar, and that even the spiritual leaders of Iran are less regarded in mainstream Shia religious circles than those in the centre of the Shia community, which is Iraq. For an authoritative religious view in Shia jurisprudence, I'd suggest you refer to Sayyid Ali al Sistani, who is generally regarded as the most senior scholar in that sect. He also has a very informative website, in several languages: www.sistani.org

:p

You edited and added something!

I agree, Sistani is a marvellous and statesmanlike character, with much to his credit. And very anti-Khomenist in his interpretation of Shiism.

For his pains, he gets his assistants assassinated by Sadrists on a regular basis.

Muslims are so hungry for assertive political leaders who will make them proud. If only they could find someone of that calibre. Who knows: perhaps the Kurds will produce another Saladin! :p

My friend Mim

With respect, could you be the bigger man and see it for what it emphatically was.........and see that there was NO mocking?!

Very simply, if the President of Iran instigates a plan to cause chaos etc...........well then, here comes the Mahdi

(And to repeat..........I have no problems with the belief in the coming of the Mahdi)

And to repeat again........how many Shia would consider the President of Iran as 'mocking' the Shia faith by wanting to deliberately create the conditions that were specifically aimed about bringing the return of the Mahdi?

allegedly