Reading Squinty's thread 'Love' reminded me of this story and I thought it would be nice to share it. I wrote this a very, very long time ago on my blog too.

I was watching Amr Khaled's program and he truly surprised me by saying he will share a story from the Qur'an, about a young woman who had feelings for a young man. :os

But I was then truly amazed by how the Qur'an did not leave anything in our lives without mentioning it and setting the rules and morals that must be attatched to it.

First I will mention the story ... and then talk about the young woman who had feelings for the young man.

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The young man, is Prophet Moses. The story begins to talk about the Prophet Moses after he fled from the Pharoah, and arrived to a village called 'Madyan'.


[28:23] "And when he arrived at the water (a well) of Madyan (Midian) he found there a group of men watering (their flocks)…"

All was normal until he saw this: [28:23] "… and besides them he found two women who were keeping back (their flocks)..."

So of course, he’ll stop to help. Even now, if a lady’s car broke down in the middle of the road, you’d find so many men standing to help (maybe only one of them is actually fixing the car).

[28:23]"He said: "What is the matter?"

THAT was the important question, he got straight to the point.

Not: Hello how are you both? Nice weather today huh, my names Moses, I came from Egypt, boy I’m tired. Anyway why are you ladies standing here?

[28:23]" …They said: "We cannot water (our flocks) until the shepherds take (their flocks). And our father is a very old man."

I always hear the guys saying: Well we don’t continue to flirt with any girl unless she shows us she's okay with it.

Maybe it’s true, maybe the girl gives them some kind of sign that she’s cool with it.

Notice how they said: "and our father is a very old man" right after they said why they were here?

Scholars say they meant by that: We’re here only because our father is very old to drag the flocks here, or we wouldn’t be here … Sounds to me like they’re telling him: We’re not here for anything else, so if you had anything in mind, for-get-it.


Now back to the Prophet Moses PBUH:

[28:24] "So he watered (their flocks) for them, then he turned back to shade, and said: "My Lord! Truly, I am in need of whatever good that You bestow on me!"

He didn’t come back and engage in any useless conversation, he didn’t give them his number, or his e-mail ad to ‘check up on their father’s condition’ …

he simply went, and sat under the shade.

Scholars say that the shade not only means under a shade of a tree, but also means: Away from sight, to show it was ‘end of story’. They needed help, he helped, that’s that.


Now let’s move on to when the young woman, the daughter of Shua’ib PBUH when she was talking to her father about Prophet Moses (PBUH), that stranger who helped them:

The two ladies went back to their father.

Of course, they would be surprised by how the stranger acted, because the men who live in the village with them aren’t like that. The proof is that they saw the ladies standing, but never thought of letting them finish their work first, but they made them stand and wait for them all to finish.

While Prophet Moses (PBUH) was sitting under the tree …:

The two ladies tell their father Shu'aib PBUH of how Moses PBUH acted. And he asked one of his daughters to go and call him:

[28:25] "Soon, one of the two women approached him, shyly, and said, 'My father invites you to pay you for watering for us." When he met him, and told him his story, he said, "Have no fear. You have been saved from the oppressive people.' "

When Moses PBUH came, one of them said to her father:


[28:] "And said one of them (the two women): "O my father! Hire him! Verily, the best of men for you to hire is the strong, the trustworthy."

Amr Khalid :

“Doesn’t that sound like she has feelings for him? It does doesn’t it? … But see how shy the girl is, she never said she liked him, but her father understood, from the tone of her voice, from the look in her eye, that she liked him, and so, he asked Prophet Moses (PBUH) to marry one of them, and we know who he married …”

[28:27] He said, "I wish to offer one of my two daughters for you to marry, in return for working for me for eight pilgrimages; if you make them ten, it will be voluntary on your part. I do not wish to make this matter too difficult for you. You will find me, God willing, righteous."

What can you learn from the story? I would like everyone to write what they learnt down.

At the risk of spoiling the thread, I'll write down what I found as an outsider.

What I found was the kind of close reading of the text of your Holy Book that Christians call "exegesis". You follow a whole passage along, word-by-word, phrase-by-phrase, and milk it for its meaning and spirituality.

To tell you the truth, I hadn't seen that before among Muslims and I wondered whether you do it and if so, how often.

Once again, through you UmK, I find something that seems Common and that I can identify with in your religion.

I like much less--whether it's done by Christians or Muslims--the thing where one takes a single verse out of context and tries to prove something momentous with it...

When it is with stories in the Qur'an, that can be done. The stories are full of wisdom, and hold a lot of meaning. Everything, every word, every act describes ... means something and teaches something important.

Sometimes I sit and hold one single verse and read it over and over again. I will start understanding it in many ways, I cannot say it is a tafseer, but it is how I relate to the situation the character in the story is in and connect it to things I go through in life.

You know the verses I mentioned above? ... Scholars have found many, many teachings in it. Two examples I can think of, the girls helped their ill father, they discussed how it was a form of 'Birr'. The Prophet offered to help the women, they discussed how that connects and teaches 'Nobleness'.

Can you do it in passages that don't involve stories?

One thing I usually do--for example if Ice Tea quotes me a verse--is I go and look it up in the Sura and see what comes before and what comes after...and try to get a sense of the flow of the whole passage and the meaning of it in context.

I remember one argument about how Muslims should regard wealth a long time ago. People were quoting verses back and forth. And sometimes when you went and looked at the whole passage it seemed to make the meaning much clearer and sometimes even different.

BTW, holding the single verse in your mind and meditating on it we call "Lectio Divina".

Even with stories, sometimes you miss A LOT of meaning if you don't see what the verses before and after the story were.

It adds to the story. Especially the verses after the story. They are like a conclusion or summary to the story as they state the Moral of the Story.

What can you learn from the story? I would like everyone to write what they learnt down.

One thing I think the story demonstrates in Amr Khaled's reading is that modesty is not the same as lacking feeling or romantic impulses. It involves the way you act, not the way you feel.

I like Amr Khalid, he was in Houston on 4/23 hosted by Rice University.

To UmK’s post, I will add something ….since UmK asked everybody to write something!

I think, it is very risky to extrapolate feelings and intentions of a character by simply analyzing the words and expressions of the scripture.

I wonder if Amr Khalid is qualified enough to interpret Quran, he is more of a Daiyah (preacher) than a scholar. His main asset, as a religious celebrity, is his speaking talent not his knowledge!

Speaking of this verse, there is a controversial verse between Sunni and Ibadhi scholars.

وَلَقَدْ هَمَّتْ بِهِ وَهَمَّ بِهَا لَوْلا أَن رَّأَى بُرْهَانَ رَبِّهِ كَذَلِكَ لِنَصْرِفَ عَنْهُ السُّوءَ وَالْفَحْشَاء إِنَّهُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُخْلَصِينَ (24)
[24] And indeed she did desire him, and he would have inclined to her desire, had he not seen the evidence of his Lord. Thus it was, that We might turn away from him evil and illegal sexual intercourse. Surely, he was one of Our chosen (guided) slaves.

That is a Sunni interpretation of the bolded segment… the semantic of the Arabic bolded word is flexible enough to suggest other meanings… ( I cannot think of an exact English match to that word…it means to show readiness to approach/deal with/react to another person, mostly in an unfriendly context). So the Ibadhi interpretation of the bolded English segment is that prophet Yusuf was to push her away and flee the scene.

Ibdhis think that prophet Yusuf is different than other men, and he wouldn’t yield to that temptation or be affected by it.

The issue might not be clear enough to extrapolate the feelings and intentions of people.

Sunnis also believe he could not have been affected by the temptation at that moment, but that is because God has protected him.

Anyway, wouldn't want to change the topic.

I have heard scholars speaking of each prophet's character, all the prophets had good characteristics, but each prophet had a characteristic that was more than the other.

These views were all found after studying the stories in the Qur'an. They were people after all, their acts meant something.

Maybe different schools of thought differ on this, I don't know. But if they do then it's interesting to know. It's a kind of mercy that we have different views on it.

As for Amr Khaled, well, his program was produced/aired on Al Resala. I trust that the people working on that channel would not show anything that goes against Islamic teachings, especially when dealing with the Qur'an.

Amr Khaled does not issue fatwas, as you said, he is only a Da'iyah. The fatwas he mentions are only fatwas he heard and is sharing. Tareq Al Suwaidan does the same thing, there have been some complaints so he said "These are not my words, I am not making them up. They are fatwas by scholars and I am but sharing."

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Thanks Jeff. To understand what the question meant, check Jeff's last post.

UmK…
My post is not about differences… I would have said the same if the example was on a Shia/Sunni difference.

My post is about how some words suggest different possibilities of meanings… and in these cases none of the interpretations can be taken for granted.

Oh I see, I misunderstood. :think:

UmK…
My post is not about differences… I would have said the same if the example was on a Shia/Sunni difference.

My post is about how some words suggest different possibilities of meanings… and in these cases none of the interpretations can be taken for granted.

Pygmo:

Don't you think you can draw inferences as long as you don't absolutize them?

I guess what I am saying is:

Doesn't the Quran in some ways speak to individual believers as well as to scholars? Can't one draw life lessons from it as long as one doesn't presume to absolutize them?

^ That is what I say.
Scholars are people after all, and their personal opinion affects their judgments.

To be on the topic. You have a nice way to present, Umkhalid, and I admire it :)
What I learned from this story is that if I'm going to do something good, I'd do it for the sake of helping, no other side objectives nor try to spoil the good deed with bad intentions

Pure and innocent love is always beautiful. Thanks UK it's a really great story I enjoyed reading. And I learnt that whenever our intention is innocent then God Grants us a beautiful thing we want. And always give without expect to take back.

Scholars are only people. All that makes someone able to "issue a fatwa", is that someone is prepared to ask him for it! I sometimes think scholars are too highly venerated among Muslims, to the point of becoming a class of "Islamic priests". Of course we can always learn from others, but I think sometimes it's easy to forget that that one of the main differences between Islam and Christianity is that no intermediaries are appointed between man and his Creator.

Anyway...sorry for the digression....

This thread, and it's title as much as anything, made me think of something: There is a Christian saying that "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

In Islam (at least as I understand it, the reverse is true: "The road to Heaven is paved with good intentions", if you will.

But why? Perhaps there is a difference nuance in language, but the difference between the two is in the understood implication: The first saying is based on the assumption that one can intend good at the beginning, and do bad in the end. But the second is I think a more truly Islamic message: Your good intentions are genuine only if you act, or attempt to act, on them at all times. It is ACTION that is the difference.

Perhaps nobody gets at all what I am talking about...but it's a thought that popped into my head a while ago and seemed like a good excuse to write it down!

In Islam (at least as I understand it, the reverse is true: "The road to Heaven is paved with good intentions", if you will.



I think the saying is "Hell is paved with temptations and Heaven with what one's self dislikes (makareh)".

To go with mimosa and Braiki's thought on Muftis/scholars, the Prophet :PBUH: did say when a man asked him for an advice: "Take a fatwa from your heart, even after people give you a fatwa"

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Each one of you saw the story in a way, which shows that as humans our judgments ARE affected by our personalities.

What I read now from lessons learnt made me open an eye on something I didn't think of while reading the story! So thank you, I hope others can join and share too.

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One thing I really liked was how her father, Shu'aib PBUH actually understood his daughter's feelings, even though she didn't speak of it. And then was not angry and ashamed of knowing his daughter had feelings for a man, but he saw that he had to do something about it and so asked him to marry one of the daughters.

It goes with other hadeeths of the Prophet :PBUH: when he said: "I do not see anything better for two people who love each other, other than marriage."

Learned from the story...
Hmm...
Help the people in need! :D
And don't be a "dumb" guy and "talk" to girls about "health"....

Ahh... I really wish we could at least compete to have SOMETHING like any prophet...
I really think if we try to be 1% like them we can make this world a better place!

Hahaha, squinty. Checking up on someone's health isn't wrong. What I meant was having a bad intention behind it.

Example:

One man was following a friend of mine .. in Mecca, imagine that. Anyway, she got fed up and told him to stop following her. He said: No sister, I actually wanted to give you a brotherly advice. This is my number, please call me and I will tell you.

Pah-lease!

Understand what I meant now? If you sent me a message asking me: How are you UmKhalid?! that doesn't mean you're an eeeevil guy. :p

Hahaha, squinty. Checking up on someone's health isn't wrong. What I meant was having a bad intention behind it.



And when I meant about "health" I meant like:
"how are you girl? you alone? want to hang out? I will make you happy!"

That is what I meant by health! :p

And a but off-topic here but, I learned from you since school days this:
To make a story better, add funny things in it or your own experience! Even if it means threating the people! :p



*still remembers you threating the school about plants.....* :hyper:



Great story UmKhalid! :D
Please do post more!
I love reading stories about our religion!

Ohh okay, that's why you added the " ... " :p

(Threatening the school about plants, omg I remember :XD:)

One thing I really liked was how her father, Shu'aib PBUH actually understood his daughter's feelings, even though she didn't speak of it. And then was not angry and ashamed of knowing his daughter had feelings for a man, but he saw that he had to do something about it and so asked him to marry one of the daughters.



I think you are making assumptions about the whole 'feeling' issue. The duaghter recommended Prophet Moses to her father to hire him based on his qualities such as the strength and trustworthy as stated in this verse:

28:] "And said one of them (the two women): "O my father! Hire him! Verily, the best of men for you to hire is the strong, the trustworthy."

I would support Pygmalion when he said:

I think, it is very risky to extrapolate feelings and intentions of a character by simply analyzing the words and expressions of the scripture.

No one said it is the final meaning, no one can ever know the final meaning of a verse.

But then again, this is how some scholars 'Awwalooh'. This is not a tafseer, but a ta'weel. I wouldn't have said it if it went against what scholars have said, anyway.

As Ibn Abbas said, there are different types of tafseer, a Halal tafseer, a Haram tafseer, a tafseer the Arabs made according to their tongues/languages ... and a tafseer no one knows but God.

And now of course, there is a tafseer by Ijtihaad done by scholars who depend on the Arabic language and grammar to understand, another tafseer which is another Ijtihaad to understand why (for example in stories) did a character do this or that ... but at the end, of course, it is all Ijtihaad.

So we can't say this Ijtihaad is right and this Ijtihaad is wrong if it does not go against the Islamic teachings.

And as the Prophet :PBUH: said, or what the hadeeth meant was that if a man 'Yajtahid' and does a mistake, then he has one reward. If he 'Yajtahid' and his ijtihaad is right then he has two rewards.

ok... I can think for a bit now...
This story shows me that love is not wrong however there are lines that should never be crossed.

Helping people is a good thing everyone appreciates and God loves to see us helping one another.

Be faithful and respectful when you do work for ladies and not do something to please them only.