Based on a recent incident I came across that seriously disturbed me!

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(( أيما رجل قال لأخيه يا كافر ، فقد باء بها أحدهما ))
http://www.paldf.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-148611.html

The 7adeeth basically means that if you deny a Muslim's faith; you are committing a sin. For instance, you tell a Muslim something like: "Become a better Muslim first!" Or something along that line..

I'm pretty sure that most of you received such statements, or at least observed or said it to others too!

*Do you get disturbed when someone tells you something like this? If so, how do you respond/react?

*If you said it to someone, don't you think of the consequences? Which is, as stated in the 7adeeth.. A sin. Do you think you have the right to judge whether a person is a good Muslim or not? :os

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Share your views.

Very good topic.
People always got this problem of comparing what they do or what they see is right to what others do and what others see is right. And then when argument heats up it ends by accusing each other of blasphemy or deciding that the action argued upon is blasphemous.
I see such problems as personal problems, Jimmy would call Billy a "kaffir" in a heated up argument usually because Billy does what Jimmy doesn't like, not because Billy is doing something that God would frown upon!

It's so stupid! I personally think it's non of anyone's business the strength of one's faith and no one has the right to judge!

*Do you get disturbed if someone tells you something like this? If so, how do you respond/react?

I JUST hate it when someone talks about faith while they dont know anything, you cant judge people just like that!

if you know them well and your 100% sure you can advice them in a nice way , not saying things like you dont pray or you are a sinner ...

they say look at your self first then you can talk about others!
and i have notice that people who try to judge me have a problem.

my reaction would be (LAUGHING) coz its funny when someone tries to say things like that about me coz i know that I do what I have to do and am a good Muslim and they dont live with me so yeah!



*If you said it to someone, don't you think of the consequences? Which is, as stated in the 7adeeth.. A sin. Do you think you have the right to judge whether a person is a good Muslim or not? :os

well i didnt try to judge anyone coz i believe in * treat people the way you want to be treated*

I only have given girls an advice to wear Hijab its not judging anyway



nice thread

Can somebody translate the hadith or find it in some English site

some ppl just get brain washed by other so they think they r the best just by being like them, eg: they have all the backup in hadeeth an quran n they have strong n very aggressive opinions about everything..

they have a rule .. Islam is so n so , if u dont do this n that then your a kafir, full stop..
sometimes when i hear that.. in reality that they mentioned is kind of true in a very harsh way.. but i just think it's none of their business to call people that.. they have no right still but the Creater to say so, what makes this person so cretin that's he's 100% right n going straight to heaven?

do ur best.. n if u see something wrong dont shut up.. we as Muslims r asked to help others to stop doing some sins or improve their religion n faith in ALlah.. but theres a way to reach people.. n never by attacking n excusing..

I only say it to someone when they tell me to do something. For example, Superbia tells my brother: "go pray at the mosque" and then my brother tells her: "before you tell me where to pray, cover your hair"! I don't want to mention the incidents happened between me and you because they're quite embarassing.. but this one is quite obvious. No one will tell you what to do unless you brought up something.

Can somebody translate the hadith or find it in some English site

{ Any man called his brother ( In Islam ) a pagan, it goes to one of them }


These days we find so many muslims calling other muslims pagans just because they disagree with them and it's lame in my opinion. No one knows whose faith is right except God so no one has the right ot judge others. It's like the curse, when a muslim curses another one the curse goes up then all the doors are locked ( won't be accepted ) and comes back to the one who said it. I never been told this and I never said this word to anyone but I say my opinion in the action not the person.

I only say it to someone when they tell me to do something. For example, Superbia tells my brother: "go pray at the mosque" and then my brother tells her: "before you tell me where to pray, cover your hair"! I don't want to mention the incidents happened between me and you because they're quite embarassing.. but this one is quite obvious. [b]No one will tell you what to do unless you brought up something.[b]

Huh, what are you saying? :os I said that I live my life as if I'm going to die tomorrow, and you told me to be a better Muslim! How is this relevant to what you're saying? Sorry I had to get it out of my chest! 'Coz not you or anyone can judge me on how deep my faith is. I find it extremely disrespectful.

Did I ever say that you're doing something wrong or whatever? My statement had nothing to do with you.. I don't think it was essential to judge someone like that and slap it on their face.

Girls, take your cat fight out of here :D . The discussion better be general instead of personal.

^ Superbia, I had to take it out of my chest too. LOL! You're one of the cousins I don't mind slaping the truth to your face :hyper:

I think you can always advice somebody to be a better Muslim because you love them or care for them or simply want to share your views. However, directly attacking a fellow Muslim with that statement is a complete No-No. Who the hell are you going about judging others? Advising is ok, insulting isn't! That is the difference that should be noted regarding this thread.

I think you can always advice somebody to be a better Muslim because you love them or care for them or simply want to share your views.

Simplicity rules.

I once said it to my brother.... I was really upset at that time since he lied to my parents for years and said he prayed while all he did was ACT as if he was praying, fasting... etc.
You all know what I mean...
I just want him to be better...
Even though I felt guilty later on.

If it was said to me and I was in a bad mood I don't know what will happen.
These days if people say I am an "atheist" I would smile back because I know God knows what my intentions are and He is the only one who knows if I am a Muslim or not.

being a Shi`a, i get these comments ALOT -_-
but i got used to it, its Almighty Allah who will judge me at the end
however, the comments do leave bitterness deep inside =/

^^ well as a suni i got from some shi'a that if i was killed it would be halal to kill me :)

^^ well as a suni i got from some shi'a that if i was killed it would be halal to kill me :)

yil3an
*dammit*

thats too much -_-

Superbia, I had to take it out of my chest too. LOL! You're one of the cousins I don't mind slaping the truth to your face

The truth in your inane views! Who are you to judge? ..NO ONE!
**Edited** ~ BrAiKi

^ Ok my dear whatever makes you sleep the night ;)

I will only say to only a person who is really close to me and will never take it personal or didn't like it. i will say it in a good way that he\she can accept it without hurting their feelings.

on the other hand, i think nobody can judge and say something like this in that way to any one.we should respect others and if we want to advice them it should be said politely.

A person has no right, what so ever, to judge a person. Be it religiously or in any other way. Actually, especially religiously! Who are you to say that a person is not a good enough Muslim. It may be so in your eyes, but it's what in Gods eyes that matters. Furthermore, if you were given advice such as "pray at the mosque" you should be thankful, and not attack back with a comment demeaning to ones religious status such as "you become a better Muslim first". Firstly, you do not know what goes on behind the walls, that person may well in fact be more religious than you.

I think you're mixing two different subjects.

One is calling a brother a 'Kafir', the other is not accepting an advice because you don't think the person who is giving you the advice is not good enough to.

One great advice I got was: When someone advises you, don't think about who you're getting the advice from, but think about how the advice will benefit you.

^ Giving an advice is one thing, and patronizing someone is another..

I personally don't preach about religion and I hate people who do so, I think faith and religion are personal matters that each person should just keep to him/herself and not try to force it on others.

on a side note, I think it's poor taste to reveal private information and family incidents online especially without the consent of the member involved.

Lovely topic! :)
(But the fact that it has escalated to a personal level is disappointing!)

*Do you get disturbed when someone tells you something like this? If so, how do you respond/react?
Of course I would get very affected and tend to be sensitive about such things. The way I would respond react greatly depends on how they message was conveyed and what the true purpose was. Figuring these two things out isn't rocket science. :)

*If you said it to someone, don't you think of the consequences? Which is, as stated in the 7adeeth.. A sin. Do you think you have the right to judge whether a person is a good Muslim or not?
IF I did say something like that or accuse someone of something I would always think twice before speaking and would only do it in a not-so embarrassing manner. I would never think of the consequences in a religious way (sins) to be honest, rather I would think of what my statement could lead to in most cases.


It's a touchy subject and extra care should be taken when saying something of this sort to anyone. There is a Hadith Sharif that we took back in school that holds the following meaning: if you are to give advice to someone, you should be careful as to not patronize them and make a scene out of it. i.e. even advice has its circumstances. :)

I dont think its wrong to advice someone even if you were not a perfect muslim. By giving advice is not by labeling them a kaffir or soemthing, but correcting something wrong they do.

However, I would hate somoene to "force" thier opinion on someone unfourtontly thats what usually happens nowadays and I find that the worst way to correct a person because they would automaitcly get into the denfsive state and say the statment superbia is talking about.

*Do you get disturbed when someone tells you something like this? If so, how do you respond/react?

depends on their intention, was it an advice? if so i'd take it as someone who cares about me, and wants the best for me. i would definitely think about it. usually, when someone points something religious to me, i think about it a lot, regardless of who it is.

*If you said it to someone, don't you think of the consequences? Which is, as stated in the 7adeeth.. A sin. Do you think you have the right to judge whether a person is a good Muslim or not?

well, i don't see myself saying that to someone unless it was in the form of an advice. i wouldn't accuse anyone of not being a good Muslim, let alone Kafer! god knows i have a long way to go to be a good Muslim myself, i'm in no place to criticize. but it's also not none of your business to advise, even if you're not a perfect Muslim yourself (and who is)

I think most if not all are familiar with this Hadeeth:

"Whoever from amongst you sees something abominable should modify it with his hand. If not, then he should do it with his tongue, if not, then he should wish to change it with his heart, and that is the weakest of faith" ~ i apologize for the poor translation, i translate it based on how i interpreted the Hadeeth.

so i don't really think it's none of your business. it actually is.
but as Arabian Prince said: "you should be careful as to not patronize them and make a scene out of it. i.e. even advice has its circumstances."

I think that ones faith shouldn't be discussed, unless a person is really comfortable with the person/people with him. Just like sex is (Am not putting sex & faith in one scale, please don't get me wrong) I mean just like how we don't go & talk about our sexual life with a stranger, it is the same with faith.

Is there a difference between judging someone personally and judging what they teach or how they act?

For example, if somebody is killing innocents in the name of your religion, surely you can judge their actions as unIslamic?

The action has nothing to do with Islam, the Qura'n and the Sunnah whether from far or from close. That I can easily declare and prove.
However, how can I declare and prove what is in this man's heart of whether he is a Muslim or not a Muslim? Whether he believes in the one God or does not?

So as long as that person still declares only one God (Allah) and Mohammed PBUH as his last prophet, I cannot say he is not Muslim. I simply do not have such authority as a human being. In fact, the people who you're speaking of are often the ones who call all OTHER Muslims 'kaffirs' (often also getting the entire modern society in as a 'kaffir society' etc.) and not the opposite, which again shows a clear lack of moderate Islamic knowledge.

'Takfeer' or labelling someone who is a Muslim and declares the Shahada a Kaffir is not something that Islam accepts.

I only say it to someone when they tell me to do something. For example, Superbia tells my brother: "go pray at the mosque" and then my brother tells her: "before you tell me where to pray, cover your hair"! I don't want to mention the incidents happened between me and you because they're quite embarassing.. but this one is quite obvious. No one will tell you what to do unless you brought up something.

That's plain stupid.
It's a lot like this:
Theif: Hey man stop killing
Killer: When you stop stealing
Theif: Alright, you got me. Let's just continue without criticism, eh?
Killer: Fine by me.

Both of em will go nowhere with such an argument.

It's mostly like:

{ أتأمرون الناس بالبر وتنسون أنفسكم وأنتم تتلون الكتاب أفلا تعقلون } (البقرة:44)

44. Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (To practise it) yourselves, and yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand?

^Quite true...It's a lot like that. Though I remember reading a tafsir of the verse that it's aimed at the Jews, not the Muslims. Still, it conveys the meaning I wanted to express a lot.