The phrase: Allahu Akbar.


Why is it always attatched to violence and aggression? Why do we have to see angry faces, tight fists in the air and in some cases decapitated heads when this beautiful phrase is said? They're ruining its meaning.

Actually it depends when we say it. Am sure you are talking about those who are rioting and being mad about sommething like in Palestine. In peaceful times, muslims say it to meditate the greatness of allah that's why it's one of the du'a phrases and makes us relaxed. On the other hand, angry muslims say it with tight fists and angry faces to express their anger and depression to tell others that God is greater than what they did and second to ask God for retaliation.

I have no clue.
Maybe because we have a number of people among us who are terrorists or potential terrorists? Maybe because the media really likes terrorists since they make a pretty good story and a 'bang' and part of the 'spice' of it is featuring the full decapitation with the 'Allahu Akbar' and the decapitations following it? I really don't know...Those are guess questions. But I have a feeling they sort of border on the reason.

I can't think of why it's linked to aggression...It simply means Allah Is Most Great. Greater than anything we have known or will know, and mightier than all His creations. It's so stunning that I, as a Muslim, tend to find hidden meanings in its two simple words everytime there's a situation where it is said.

When people use God's name in vain like that esp. during violence is that considered a sin? For example if I say the GD curse word it is considered a sin.

On the other hand, angry muslims say it with tight fists and angry faces to express their anger and depression to tell others that God is greater than what they did and second to ask God for retaliation.


I go with that one.

Plus reading about the battles that muslims faced through the hard times in the past, the muslim worriers and fighters were reciting/shouting that phrase all the time.

It's not a curse in God's name marianna it's simply saying: Allah is great. It's moslty a Du'a. Yet, muslims say it in different occasions. When they're happy they can say it, when they're mad they can say it. Only those who have shallow thinking will relate it to violence.

marianna, do you mean like somebody saying it while murdering somebody? Or somebody saying the word 'Allah' after a curse word, etcetra?

That does sound like a pretty bad sin to me since it offends the expression itself.
Though I have to look for a reliable source.

I think Marianna means when someone uses the term "God Dmn you".

The phrase: Allahu Akbar.


Why is it always attatched to violence and aggression? Why do we have to see angry faces, tight fists in the air and in some cases decapitated heads when this beautiful phrase is said? They're ruining its meaning.

I gave UmK a rep for this thread and I wish I could give her a hundred reps.

It's funny because I just finished a post about "enter into the mindset of those you are addressing" as something that does wonders when you are talking about religion.

I have often thought of this very thing and wondered to myself, "Do Muslims SEE what has happened to these words? Do they KNOW, do they UNDERSTAND what damage has been done? Are they AWARE that if you take your average Westerner and just do free word association, it will be like this:

"Okay, I will give you a word or phrase and you give me the first thing that comes into your head. Don't take time to think. Just answer."

"Alright!"

"Japan" "Anime"

"Fish" "Bubbles"

"Jump" "Hop"

"Cigarette" "Cough"

"Allahu akbar" "Bomb"


The words themselves are so beautiful in meaning. But for so many non-Muslims, they have been ruined.

Very, very sad. But so important for Muslims to understand, I think, when they are dealing with us.

Its like how Inshallah started to sound like you might do something. I remmber I was working in an office with a frensh man.. he was talking to man demanding some work to be done .. and the Omani guy said: Inshallah .. the frensh man said: No dont say inshallah, say you would do it.
Unfourtontly the wrong use of some words has caused people who dont speak the language to misunderstand them and relate them to somehting negative.

Well all you mentioned jeff ar erelated to each others except about the word allahu akbar and bomb. It's only the westerners who assume this coz they want to assume it. Not the muslims fault that some people take things superficially.

I understand that there are some who shout it when they are angry. But ... read this:

Years back, on Al Jazeera Live, a scholar was talking about how our brothers in Iraq were suffering.

Suddenly, a man stands up with a fist in the air and goes: Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!

To my surprise, the scholar shut him up then said: "When will we stop these ignorant cries!"


He is right. They are cries without a meaning. What do we think will happen if we shout Allahu Akbar? Killing will stop? People will be freed? Or are we just shouting them to appear strong?


--

Those who beheaded the journalist. What did he do? They had 'Allahu Akbar' tied around their heads. Sure, Allahu Akbar, but Allahu Akbar on you for killing an innocent! It's amazing how sometimes people say things that point back to them.

Arabian Princess, you're so right. :yes:

It's not their fault, it's ours. We're the ones who made these phrases appear the way they are.

Well all you mentioned jeff ar erelated to each others except about the word allahu akbar and bomb. It's only the westerners who assume this coz they want to assume it. Not the muslims fault that some people take things superficially.

Not really.

If we didn't see so many ignorant muslims shouting this every time they commit some outrageous act of violence or mass murder then we wouldn't make the association.

But doesn't it anger you to see someone using God's name that way while committing a grave sin such as murder?

I have always tried to get my head arund this:

Riots for cartoons of mohammed.
Protesting because Burker Kings icecream had a swirl on its cups that looked like the word 'Allah"

No rioting or protesting for using the phrase while committing a grave sin, capturing this beautiful moment on tape AND sending it to TV networks for them to play.

The mind boggles.

Well all you mentioned jeff ar erelated to each others except about the word allahu akbar and bomb. It's only the westerners who assume this coz they want to assume it. Not the muslims fault that some people take things superficially.

I think your answer is much more superficial than UmK's post.

I think it's at least partly the fault of the people who do the relating.

I don't know how you want to identify them: Muslims, not Muslims, bad Muslims, people using Islam as an excuse....

...Whatever.

But if you were raped by a priest or you kept seeing it on the news and so you relate priests and rape, I am not going to say, "It's your fault, El Rey." Even though the number of priests who rape is tiny and everybody condemns them.

In large cities, we have some experience of Muslims. But many people don't really know any and the only real experience of Islam they have is this sort of thing. They have no prejudice one way or the other. And they have very little knowledge one way or the other.

It's not a question of whose fault it is. It's just a question of this:

A substantial number of people are being violent or approving violence and using these words! So naturally, people associate the two.

That's true whether Muslims as a whole are innocent or not innocent.

And it's a tragedy for Islam.

I understand why some Muslims get defensive about it. But I think the issue is deeper than that. And it's not an attack on Islam to discuss it.

But doesn't it anger you to see someone using God's name that way while committing a grave sin such as murder?
.

Where did you see a muslim murdering someone and saying allahu akbar ?

Where did you see a muslim murdering someone and saying allahu akbar ?

Read UmK's first post.

I think your answer is much more superficial than UmK's post.

I think it's at least partly the fault of the people who do the relating.

I don't know how you want to identify them: Muslims, not Muslims, bad Muslims, people using Islam as an excuse....

...Whatever.

But if you were raped by a priest or you kept seeing it on the news and so you relate priests and rape, I am not going to say, "It's your fault, El Rey." Even though the number of priests who rape is tiny and everybody condemns them.

In large cities, we have some experience of Muslims. But many people don't really know any and the only real experience of Islam they have is this sort of thing. They have no prejudice one way or the other. And they have very little knowledge one way or the other.

It's not a question of whose fault it is. It's just a question of this:

A substantial number of people are being violent or approving violence and using these words! So naturally, people associate the two.

That's true whether Muslims as a whole are innocent or not innocent.

And it's a tragedy for Islam.

I understand why some Muslims get defensive about it. But I think the issue is deeper than that. And it's not an attack on Islam to discuss it.

That's the problem. Those people you are talking about are taking only one side of the case. And how do you compare saying allahu akbar in defending oneself as raping ? Is this what you think ? If a priest killed a criminal and before he killed him he said; by the name of the christI take my right from this criminal, then I wont say this priest is criminal and christ is related to killing. In contrary i will understand his motive. Unfortunately, westerners don't take it the same way. And yes coz they take things superficially, They only take what's in news and never seek for the truth of the real meanining.

Read UmK's first post.

I believe my post to UK's thread was directly underneath it :) . Did you read it ?

El Rey. I'm a Muslim. I know the true meaning (or try to know) of Allahu Akbar. But if I hear someone saying Allahu Akbar, in a voice higher than usual, I will stop and wonder what 'bad thing' is going to happen.

I'm not taking things superficially. I know what's truly behind the phrase. Is it my fault my mind connected the two? Did it connect them for NO REASON AT ALL?

Right now, I'm agreeing with Wudjab.

I believe my post to UK's thread was directly underneath it :) . Did you read it ?

I did. I think you missed the point.

El Rey. I'm a Muslim. I know the true meaning (or try to know) of Allahu Akbar. But if I hear someone saying Allahu Akbar, in a voice higher than usual, I will stop and wonder what 'bad thing' is going to happen.

I'm not taking things superficially. I know what's truly behind the phrase. Is it my fault my mind connected the two? Did it connect them for NO REASON AT ALL?

Right now, I'm agreeing with Wudjab.

And actually, I think this is a beautiful and deeply Islamic thing to say.

And it helps me and others to say to our friends, "Let's look at people in a mosque who bow down in such a lovely way and say 'Allahu Akbar" because they love God. And let's remember how so many of them get up and do acts of kindness and love and charity because of those words."

See el rey, there's nothing anti-Islamic about this. Something can be a misunderstanding but still be a REASONABLE misunderstanding.

The way to deal with that is to recognize the partial justice in those who misunderstand and not to put all the blame on them.

This is the way to the world's healing, I am convinced.

El Rey. I'm a Muslim. I know the true meaning (or try to know) of Allahu Akbar. But if I hear someone saying Allahu Akbar, in a voice higher than usual, I will stop and wonder what 'bad thing' is going to happen.

I'm not taking things superficially. I know what's truly behind the phrase. Is it my fault my mind connected the two? Did it connect them for NO REASON AT ALL?

Right now, I'm agreeing with Wudjab.

So you think that 'allahu akbar' is only said when we're happy ? haven't muslims in the era of our prophet :PBUH:said it when they were heading to wars ? When they were carrying their swords ? How do you think t hey looked when they were saying it ? laughing ? Saying it with tight fists or with a happy face, this doesn't make the phrase less great. It will still be great no matter how we look when we say it. You just need to be in those ( angry people ) shoes when they say it with anger. They are asking God for help that's all.

Its like how Inshallah started to sound like you might do something. I remmber I was working in an office with a frensh man.. he was talking to man demanding some work to be done .. and the Omani guy said: Inshallah .. the frensh man said: No dont say inshallah, say you would do it.
Unfourtontly the wrong use of some words has caused people who dont speak the language to misunderstand them and relate them to somehting negative.

That is true...especially when you use it with a child... my littile nephew asked his father to go out but the father wasnt willing to go, he just replied "inshallah"..the 5 year old nephew replied "not inshallah... we will go."

Past experiences just taught him that inshallah means nothing was gonna happen.

See el rey, there's nothing anti-Islamic about this. Something can be a misunderstanding but still be a REASONABLE misunderstanding.
.

I didn't say it's anti-islamic jeff. All I want to say that saying allahu akbar while rioting and looking angry may looks a terroristic scene to you but it's a touching scene to me.

You just need to be in those ( angry people ) shoes when they say it with anger. They are asking God for help that's all.

When they're holding a head of a journalist who had nothing to do with anything, what kind of help exactly are they asking God for?

See, El Rey. You said it: Rioting. Angry. These are something Islam is against in the first place.

"Do not be angry.
Do not be angry.
Do not be angry." - :PBUH:

When they're holding a head of a journalist who had nothing to do with anything, what kind of help exactly are they asking God for?

I never agreed with killing innocent people and calling God's names and this happens very rarely and because those people are so depressed that they found no other choice but doing anything to defend their country and family.

See, El Rey. You said it: Rioting. Angry. These are something Islam is against in the first place.

"Do not be angry.
Do not be angry.
Do not be angry." - :PBUH:


I know our prophet said this and said ليس الشديد بالصرعه انما الشديد اللذي يملك نفسه عند الغضب ( the tough is not who gets mad but the one who controls himself ) but when it comes to religion and killing our prophet himself gets mad and his face turns red and he faught many people because they made him mad when they assaulted some muslims or violated some treaties with Islam. Yes he got angry and yes he prepared an army and yes that whole army was crying allahu akbar.

But doesn't it anger you to see someone using God's name that way while committing a grave sin such as murder?

I have always tried to get my head arund this:

Riots for cartoons of mohammed.
Protesting because Burker Kings icecream had a swirl on its cups that looked like the word 'Allah"

No rioting or protesting for using the phrase while committing a grave sin, capturing this beautiful moment on tape AND sending it to TV networks for them to play.

The mind boggles.

Why boggle? lol
It's easy...Somebody lights the spark and somebody doesn't light the spark.
Some people follow the fire and some don't. And of course, the media sits around all of it and (as we say in Egypt) 'makes of the pea a dome'.

Am I ashamed of having people who follow my same religion decapitating people? Absoloutely. What makes it better though is that I know there are many Catholics who hate the KKK for example...I think that if everybody held closer to their religion, Muslims to Islam, Christians to Christianity, Judaism to Jews we can really eliminate all the weeds...It'll be slow but I'm quite optimistic.

El Rey. I'm a Muslim. I know the true meaning (or try to know) of Allahu Akbar. But if I hear someone saying Allahu Akbar, in a voice higher than usual, I will stop and wonder what 'bad thing' is going to happen.

I'm not taking things superficially. I know what's truly behind the phrase. Is it my fault my mind connected the two? Did it connect them for NO REASON AT ALL?

Right now, I'm agreeing with Wudjab.

http://www.secraterri.com/faint.jpg
Thank you UmK.

Duuuude, big achievement.
Hardly any Muslim here ever agrees with you :D

Duuuuude.

Thats why I fainted.


:D :D

She must be sarcastic
Allahu akbar :p



tk tk tk .. someone is running , yah it's a BOMB lol

I wasn't sarcastic at all! Wudjab does sometimes say things we can agree on, we should open our eyes more.

Yes you were :D

Someone's in denial ...

ElRey,

I suggest you do a google search for "Nick Berg + beheading" and you will find what you've been looking for.

Well, I can also google some Jesus camps calling for others' ( non christians )death and google enough Crusades. But am smart enough to recognise that's not all christianity. Coz I judge the religion itself not the people who follow it.

The video shows Berg surrounded by five men wearing ski masks and head scarves. A lengthy statement is read aloud. The statement says that Berg's killing was in direct retaliation for the abuse of prisoners by U.S. troops at Abu Ghraib prison. The masked men then converge on Berg and decapitate him with a knife.

A scream can be heard as men shout "Allahu Akbar."



Wikipedia.

:no: More Astaghfur Allah Al Atheem Min Kulli Thanbin Atheem (I ask God the Greatest for forgiveness for every great sin) than Allahu Akbar!

See El Rey, no one said this was Islam. But surely, this is how it is being portrayed.

It takes a while for that fact to set in. It's very depressing.
I personally took months to accept that...

ElRey,

Please provide some links where you find Christians calling for the death of non Christians.

Thanks.

See El Rey, no one said this was Islam. But surely, this is how it is being portrayed.

UK you have to know that people like these can never be eliminated. It's only stupid to generalise. Generlizing means that those people haven't seeked the truth they only sit behinde the T.V or google ' Muslims crimes ' . Of course they will find such things Tell me one religion doesnt have such believers !! Yet, those who portray the whole religion by few individuals are really superficial.

Define 'few individuals'.

wudjab...Visit www.kkk.com.
Interesting how freaking racist those bastards still are...

^ uhh kkk dont target non Christians homie.

And what happened to the KKK ?

Did you find Christians supporting them ?

When did they have their last rally calling for death to non Christians ?

TL, surely your better than that ?

I expect that from ElRey, but you ?

haha, nobody apparently even bothered with the link.
Nobody bothered to mention their 'pretty bloody' history.

Besides, I was simply pointing them out...From what it seems from their website, they have some good following. So if I associate a burning cross with Christianity, you can't blame me.

It just strenghthens your point, in a way, if you see what I mean.

Of course we know about the KKK.

They are a group of White Supremacists.

But they are a spent force.

^ Wudjab, its not about finding people who defend or not ..the fact they exist should make you more understanding of our position as muslim who dont support what SOME MINORITY of muslims do.

instead of us working togther to understand each other .. you are blaming all muslims for the actions of few!!

Couldn'tve said it better AP...

ElRey,

Please provide some links where you find Christians calling for the death of non Christians.

Thanks.

I believe we've discussed this here in the sabla before. Anyway, I don't have your enthusiasm in googling to pick up in religions. But since you're interested I think all christians want to be like us muslims: Radicals ;)

Speaking in tongues, weeping for salvation, praying for an end to abortion and worshipping a picture of President Bush -- these are some of the activities at Pastor Becky Fischer's Bible camp in North Dakota, "Kids on Fire," subject of the provocative new documentary, "Jesus Camp."


"I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are in Palestine, Pakistan and all those different places," Fisher said. "Because, excuse me, we have the truth."

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2455343&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

And worshiping bush's picture ? agh
Look wudjap all christians worship Bush's picture

El Rey:

Look, no one is suggesting that all Muslims are responsible for what some Muslims do.

But all Catholic priests are not responsible for for what a few Catholic priests do, either.

Now: When HITMAN puts up a thread suggesting that this shows something is terribly wrong with Catholicism or Ice Tea agrees with it, I think they are coming to the wrong conclusion.

BUT I CAN'T BLAME THEM!

It is OUR fault. NATURALLY people will come to the wrong understanding when some priests give such an example.

I remember my own parish priest preaching on this topic and his voice shaking with anger and being reduced almost to speechlessness.

But he wasn't mad at the people who misunderstand. He was angry at the PRIESTS WHO DO THIS. It's THEIR fault people misunderstand.

They ruin the name of the Catholic Church. And you won't find anyone more furious at them than good Catholic priests.

I am glad that you are able to keep an open mind and not be affected by this. But I can't blame others who don't see so clearly because the fault is primarily OURS.

***

Of course people have misunderstanding of Islam. Some of the fault is theirs. Some of the fault is that of the news media.

But MUCH of the fault is that of Muslims doing the wrong thing. And that's where to begin.

That's why UmK can say what she says without being "anti-Muslim".

That's why Sheikh Hamza Yusuf can say, "We Muslims have a problem with terrorism."

We religious communities have to take responsibility for the sins of our followers, we can't pin all the blame for misunderstanding on outsiders.

That's not just a rule for Muslims. It's for Catholics too. And that's why I give the example of the priestly abuse problem.

The number one threat is not from people misunderstanding Catholicism. The number one threat is from WITHIN OUR NUMBERS, from the priests who abuse. Even though they are the minority.

And the number one threat is not from people coming to conclusions that Islam is violent. It's from the Muslims acting this way and defending it by their interpretation of your religion. Even though they are the minority.

haha, nobody apparently even bothered with the link.
Nobody bothered to mention their 'pretty bloody' history.

Besides, I was simply pointing them out...From what it seems from their website, they have some good following. So if I associate a burning cross with Christianity, you can't blame me.

It just strenghthens your point, in a way, if you see what I mean.

I think we can say this:

If you are a Jewish person and somebody burned a cross on your lawn, we can understand why you would have a bad opinion of Christianity and of Christians...

Christians condemn any barbaric acts done by people of the cloth or by lay people done in the name of God.

Where did you see a muslim murdering someone and saying allahu akbar ? El rey, that's a stupid question as the whole world has seen it countless times.

I'd just like to know what your reaction would be to someone dead drunk, was walking past your house shouting "Allah u Akbar"...

Or someone who steals something and shouts Allahu akbar.

I believe we've discussed this here in the sabla before. Anyway, I don't have your enthusiasm in googling to pick up in religions. But since you're interested I think all christians want to be like us muslims: Radicals ;)



http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2455343&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

And worshiping bush's picture ? agh
Look wudjap all christians worship Bush's picture

I'm still waiting for the link that encourages Christians to kill non christians.

PS: Asking it's followers to be prepared to LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES for their faith is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of asking them to kill non believers.

PPS : People who LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES for a cause are what we call MARTYRS in Christianity. People who commit mass murder WHILE they kill themselves are homicidal terrorists.

I'm still waiting for the link that encourages Christians to kill non christians.

PS: Asking it's followers to be prepared to LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES for their faith is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of asking them to kill non believers.
i would lay down my life for the things i feel strongly about...my kids, my country, my faith. but my faith teaches me to respect other faiths, not to go murdering them. and i abhor anybody who goes killing others in the name of my faith. they are totally disrespecting its foundations. love one another, love thy enemy, love thy neighbour as yourself.

See, El Rey. You said it: Rioting. Angry. These are something Islam is against in the first place.

"Do not be angry.
Do not be angry.
Do not be angry." - :PBUH:

Not always!! :PBUH: غضب عندما انتهكت محارم الله or :PBUH: was angry when Allah's rights were abused.

Those people who we see shouting Allah Akbaar are not angry because they did not get paid at work or BurgerKing was closed down but because Allah's rights for people been abused such as their land been stolen or families been killed with no valid reason or the prophet and islam was abused/insulted!!

Personally I do not agree with you in this one.

Not always!! :PBUH: غضب عندما انتهكت محارم الله or :PBUH: was angry when Allah's rights were abused.

Those people who we see shouting Allah Akbaar are not angry because they did not get paid at work or BurgerKing was closed down but because Allah's rights for people been abused such as their land been stolen or families been killed with no valid reason or the prophet and islam was abused/insulted!!

Personally I do not agree with you in this one.

The words you highlight don't just say "anger". They say "anger. Rioting."

I think there's a difference between dignified, measured anger and out-of-control, rioting kind of anger, which seems to be what UmK is talking about.

Not to mention bombing, head-chopping, killing-of-innocents kind of behavior.

There are plenty of people here in Sabla for example who are upset about various things. And they are angry. But they don't go screaming into the street waving swords or go off and set off car bombs in markets or fly planes into buildings or capture civilians and cut their heads off, all the while shouting religious slogans.

It's the wild out of control kind of anger that seems to end up with rioting, burning things, killing people that I think UmKhalid is pointing to. And that kind of stuff if indulged even gets turned on fellow Muslims who are not "pure enough".

Of course, there is dignified anger about injustice among Muslims and there is every reason to respect that. But I don't think that's the point here. After saying, "Don't get angry" three times, when asked again, the response was, "Don't get angry and furious." I.e, don't let you anger carry you beyond bounds, don't let it become excessive. Otherwise, even is a just religiouscause, you will create bitterness and opposition, as one Islamic commentator points out...

http://www.islamawareness.net/Anger/anger.html

And in your anger, you will create new injustices and far from defending your religion (which is supposed to be the point of holy anger), you will bring your religion into disrepute.

Is it "wrong but understandable" if people's rights are violated or their religion is offended that they sometimes react with too much violence or target innocents? Sure, okay.

But it's also "wrong but understandable" that people seeing a lot of this sort of stuff will get a spoiled and incorrect image of Islam as a religion of violent maniacs.

And this is bad for Islam.

When UmKhalid, an excellent and serious Muslim, would be afraid of violence if she heard someone say "Allahu Akbar!" in a high pitched voice...if amo oman would be afraid to get on a plane with Muslims clerics who make a big deal about insisting on praying in the aisle while passengers are getting seated...

...then something is wrong.

I also remember something Haroun just wrote in another thread, one of those lovely stories about Mohammed that we Westerners don't hear enough of:

That other day when [Mohammed] was fed up with Mecca's refusal to his message he went to Taef and they throw stones on him till his feet got bloody, and let their kids call him bad things and follow him in a rude way. Then when he sat under a tree, Allah send him an angel telling him if you need me to squeeze them between these two mountains I will do that, but Prophet Mohammad refused and he said: "Could be that God bring from their offspring someone who will worship Allah".

Now, obviously these kids were not only attacking the Prophet Himself, but they were attacking the Message of Allah in His Prophet and thus attacking Allah Himself.

But Mohammed counselled not anger and destruction, but patience.

Because from those who are unjust and those who attack religion, God can one day bring people who love him.

wudjab...Visit www.kkk.com.
Interesting how freaking racist those bastards still are...


Are you not going to order a White Power tshirt?

^Not until you order one of them ceramic statues :hyper:

Allah is the greatest regardless we say it with anger or with relaxation.

.



PPS : People who LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES for a cause are what we call MARTYRS in Christianity..

That's what muslims do :yes:

Not always!! :PBUH: غضب عندما انتهكت محارم الله or :PBUH: was angry when Allah's rights were abused.

Those people who we see shouting Allah Akbaar are not angry because they did not get paid at work or BurgerKing was closed down but because Allah's rights for people been abused such as their land been stolen or families been killed with no valid reason or the prophet and islam was abused/insulted!!

Personally I do not agree with you in this one.

Very well said indeed :super: . So sad some people find it hard to understand.

Those people who we see shouting Allah Akbaar are not angry because they did not get paid at work or BurgerKing was closed down but because Allah's rights for people been abused such as their land been stolen or families been killed with no valid reason or the prophet and islam was abused/insulted!!

So those who were shouting Allahu Akbar while decapitating somebody completely INNOCENT of the war, are really just people angry at their land being stolen and their families being killed and they should not be treated like murderers of innocent souls?

What an interesting theory.

She meant while rioting.

No problem, my argument still applies to that too.
Rioting isn't exactly the greatest act in the world, believe me. We've had rioting in Egypt recently if you have noticed :D

For the bread issue ? :D

It's more complicated than that.
The people were really just angry at every single thing in their crappy lives...

So how do you express your anger and disaproval if you don't protest or riot ?

It's more complicated than that.
The people were really just angry at every single thing in their crappy lives...

Shouldn't they be ?

^What's the big idea? That I'll approve of rioting and burning things?
No, I don't. The best idea when your nerves are broken is NOT bumping your head against the wall and breaking it too which is exactly what rioting is about. I find that utterly stupid...They already had enough attention by not going to work en masse. No shop needed to be broken, no people needed to be injured for the point to be taken.

Protesting is on one side and rioting is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY on the other.

So you prefer a protest with wide happpy grin hloding signs like ' Sorry, we may diasgree with you. Please stop it' ? In this case, the ones you are protesting againt will die laughing at you LOL. You need to understand one thing, when people protest then riot they do it coz they are mad and they do it cos it's the only way to show their anger and disaproval. You may disagree with them and say what they do is stupid, am sure they say the same thing about your type of protesting.

^Interesting to see you're so sure.
Last I checked however, I was the Egyptian here.
And the Egyptians don't think protesting is stupid or rioting is the best solution. Most of them are COMPLETELY against rioting...If you think breaking shops, harming soldiers who are themselves in the same shit as you are, harming old people and children is an amazing act of conveying you cause, good luck with it.

It's interesting that El-Rey apparently believes that protest must necessarily involve violence.

Fortunately he's the only one with that warped idea.

^Interesting to see you're so sure.
Last I checked however, I was the Egyptian here.
And the Egyptians don't think protesting is stupid or rioting is the best solution. Most of them are COMPLETELY against rioting...If you think breaking shops, harming soldiers who are themselves in the same shit as you are, harming old people and children is an amazing act of conveying you cause, good luck with it.

Oh wait, you are rioting now. Harming feelings is rioting too isn't it ? :D

First of all I meant rioting in general not in Egypt.
Second, I said people who riot think that peaceful protest is stupid, otherwise they don't riot.
Third, since you mentioned your country. Peaceful protests won''t solve any problem their and you definitly know this ;)

It's interesting that El-Rey apparently believes that protest must necessarily involve violence.

Fortunately he's the only one with that warped idea.

I believe in peaceful protests. But when they become in vain I also believe they should turn into viloent rioting. Some regimes don't understand but this language. ( Am talking about local rioting ).

No need to explain.

We understand perfectly well that you believe that violence is justified.

Harming feelings? Where did I mention that?
My point at that sentence in bold was that most of the officers who were trying to control the riots were also suffering from the same low wages, the same bread lines, the same high prices, all that...Assaulting them is stupid since not only do they have weapons while the riot-raisers do not, they also tend to be in a very similar situation to those who they are trying to control.

Your first point is off the course.
My reply to that point applies there too.

Second point is a play on symantecs. Your post DEFINITELY seemed to indicate that rioting is a lot better than protesting anyhow.

Third point is of course ignorant and an assumption that I don't know my country well enough. Protesting HAS solved things in Egypt, the 1919 rebellion was not a riot but depended a lot on a protest and it DID help the Egyptians back then. Protesting prompts actions from the officers who work for the particular area in the Egyptian Parliment, this prompts action in the Parliment, subsequently resulting in a solution for the problem. Whether that solution is immediate or not will depend on the government and the speed of the Parliment. But a protest aims to STIR ATTENTION to a matter. Is that done with protests in Egypt? Certainly, with their wide media coverage, attention IS stirred.

Third point is of course ignorant and an assumption that I don't know my country well enough. Protesting HAS solved things in Egypt, the 1919 rebellion was not a riot but depended a lot on a protest and it DID help the Egyptians back then

All Egyptians I met here in Oman talked the opposite of what you're saying. I don't want to turn this thread about Egypt cos am sure you won't like it, but my point of view that rioting sometimes is necessary. And when I say rioting I don't mean breaking downs supermarkets and harming children, this is awkward, but I mean harm the responsibles so don't misinterpret my definition of rioting.

And yes wudjab, violence is justified when it's necessary. You don't get your rights by a smiling face doing nothing but raising signs.

^You haven't met enough apparently ;)
I've been watching an Egyptian talk-show recently. It had about some hundred phone calls in a day from middle-class and lower-class people saying that they HATED what the rioting has done to the country...I bet you won't find those same Egyptians telling you they really loved it when their uncle's shop got broken down cause somebody else was sick with the prices rising.

Rioting has a very clear definition and it is (by definition) a criminal act; you need to be VERY careful with using the word next time you do so you don't lead us both in an unnecessary discussion.
Riots are a form of civil disorders characterized by disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden and intense rash of violence, vandalism or other crime. While individuals may attempt to lead or control a riot, riots are typically chaotic and exhibit herd behavior.

Riots are a form of civil disorders characterized by disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden and intense rash of violence, vandalism or other crime. While individuals may attempt to lead or control a riot, riots are typically chaotic and exhibit herd behavior.

Add to it: directed to the responsibles. I Love rioting :D

And by the way, really dude: Don't give two shits about my feelings :D Shoot, 3adii...

Since this thread is titled "Addicted to Agression" it's entirely appropriate that El-Rey is addicted to violent protest.

غضب الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم عندما انتهكت محارم الله
The Prophet :PBUH: would be angry if God's rights were violated.

El Rey and ToomuchaT, ask yourselves, HOW did the Prophet :PBUH: show anger? You're saying he was angry, sure, normally someone would be angry if something was upsetting, but how the person DEALS with his anger differs. How did the Prophet :PBUH: deal with his anger? Did he riot? Did he shout in the streets?

So you believe that muslims should protest without saying 'Allahu Akbar' ?
Oh yah I forgot, youre against protesting at all. Let's sing the happy world song now.. lead the rhyme UK. And doing this, we'll get our right and Palestine will be freed and there won't be deads in Iraq anymore. And for Thread like: your bread crisis will subside.

Funny...?

The point here isn't to protest or not. The thread was initially started because of how some are using God to justify their acts.

They cut off innocent peoples' heads while shouting ALLAHU AKBAR, believing that God is blessing this act.

They damage buildings and when they are together they believe they have acheived victory and shout ALLAHU AKBAR.

But when people are suffering from injustice, of course they will not smile and say Allahu Akbar in a calm way, they will say: "Allahu Akbar on the one who was injust to me", with anger. Which is a sort of Du'aa to God to help them.

^Nope, in ElRey's book that's not allowed.
You have to riot, damage and destroy every single governmental facility available so that the government gets your message.

A lot like the stone age from which we have thankfully developed, but it fits ElRey who thinks that is solves our bread crisis to destroy facilities built by the govenment for us and riot in streets that are made for our own leisure while destroying shops that we don't own and injuring those who are completely innocent of it all...

Sorry, ElRey, one behalf of every Egyptian I have ever met (and believe me, they're quite a number): your soultion to our bread crisis is total ********.

So those who were shouting Allahu Akbar while decapitating somebody completely INNOCENT of the war, are really just people angry at their land being stolen and their families being killed and they should not be treated like murderers of innocent souls?

What an interesting theory.


who was the innocent person?

غضب الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم عندما انتهكت محارم الله
The Prophet :PBUH: would be angry if God's rights were violated.

El Rey and ToomuchaT, ask yourselves, HOW did the Prophet :PBUH: show anger? You're saying he was angry, sure, normally someone would be angry if something was upsetting, but how the person DEALS with his anger differs. How did the Prophet :PBUH: deal with his anger? Did he riot? Did he shout in the streets?


Remind me what was the prophet's reaction in these tow different situations:


1. When the a3rabi guy urinated in the mosque.

2. When some munafqyeen i.e. hypocrites, did not turn up for the prayers.

who was the innocent person?


Ever heard of, say, Jack Hensley?
He was an American engineer. Kidnapped and beheaded in the Iraq war by terrorist groups in Iraq.

The list also includes:
Olin Eugene Armstrong
Kim Sun-il
Kenneth John Bigley
Shosei Koda

Among others.

Ever heard of, say, Jack Hensley?
He was an American engineer. Kidnapped and beheaded in the Iraq war by terrorist groups in Iraq.

The list also includes:
Olin Eugene Armstrong
Kim Sun-il
Kenneth John Bigley
Shosei Koda

Among others.

Man that's called war, no inoccents!! Maybe, collateral damage!! In wars everything is permissible these days!!

In a war there is no terrorists, but two or more sides of fighting enemies!! each side will get its share of civilians!! either by saying Allah Akbuaar or Hallelujah!!

Man that's called war, no inoccents!! Maybe, collateral damage!! In wars everything is permissible these days!!

In a war there is no terrorists, but two or more sides of fighting enemies!! each side will get its share of civilians!! either by saying Allah Akbuaar or Hallelujah!!
does not make it right...

for me collateral damage is when troops of soldiers fight each other and a civilian gets in the line of fire.

picking on one person who's got nothing to do with the war, or moreover, he's there giving aid....and killing him is not right. whatever side the attacker is on.

Man that's called war, no inoccents!! Maybe, collateral damage!! In wars everything is permissible these days!!

In a war there is no terrorists, but two or more sides of fighting enemies!! each side will get its share of civilians!! either by saying Allah Akbuaar or Hallelujah!!

Maybe you're very happy and cool with it but I'm not cool with somebody coming up, using a phrase like 'Allahu Akbar' in direct reference to my religion and decapitating somebody on a claimed religious basis. That creates an association, no matter in which shallow mind, between Islam and decapitation of people who have nothing to do with war. And let's face it, terrorists aren't a 'side' of any war, neither the Iraq nor anything else. If you want to go against any invasion you start by attacking the invasion military not getting hostages and chopping their heads off...That, the world knows, is violence and barbarism.

Put it this way:
If a soldier comes in, takes my house, gets me out of it, makes of my children orphans and a friend of mine grabs a guy that soldier doesn't know but who simply happens to be of the same nationality and he chops his head off, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't get me back my house. It doesn't re-parent my children and most of all, it doesn't do direct damage to the soldier or his forces and so lead the invasion out of my town. Got it now?

Maybe you're very happy and cool with it but I'm not cool with somebody coming up, using a phrase like 'Allahu Akbar' in direct reference to my religion and decapitating somebody on a claimed religious basis.

If it's a war zone, then yes I'm happy and cool, actually MEGA happy to see it. And whatever the claim is either religion, politics or personal.

And let's face it, terrorists aren't a 'side' of any war, neither the Iraq nor anything else. If you want to go against any invasion you start by attacking the invasion military not getting hostages and chopping their heads off...That, the world knows, is violence and barbarism.

On what basis you call them terrorists!! What you said is absolutely right, but that when we are away from the action spot and we do not know the reality of it.

Put it this way:
If a soldier comes in, takes my house, gets me out of it, makes of my children orphans and a friend of mine grabs a guy that soldier doesn't know but who simply happens to be of the same nationality and he chops his head off, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't get me back my house. It doesn't re-parent my children and most of all, it doesn't do direct damage to the soldier or his forces and so lead the invasion out of my town. Got it now?

Threadlike, "Ph" and "F" sounds the same but the usage is completely different.

But when people are suffering from injustice, of course they will not smile and say Allahu Akbar in a calm way, they will say: "Allahu Akbar on the one who was injust to me", with anger. Which is a sort of Du'aa to God to help them.

This is what I meant by rioting saying Allahu akbar. And you don't know God's judgement on those you are talking about. And as ToomuchaT said, it's a war zone so anything can happen. Palestinians children were killed in Israel and most of the christian members here blamed the children and their parents to put them there, now how about a mature guy going to a very hot war zone and s/he can be accused of cooperation with the enemies ?!!


^Nope, in ElRey's book that's not allowed.
You have to riot, damage and destroy every single governmental facility available so that the government gets your message.

A lot like the stone age from which we have thankfully developed, but it fits ElRey who thinks that is solves our bread crisis to destroy facilities built by the govenment for us and riot in streets that are made for our own leisure while destroying shops that we don't own and injuring those who are completely innocent of it all...
Sorry, ElRey, one behalf of every Egyptian I have ever met (and believe me, they're quite a number): your soultion to our bread crisis is total ********.

Hey haven't you read my post ?

And when I say rioting I don't mean breaking downs supermarkets and harming children, this is awkward, but I mean harm the responsibles so don't misinterpret my definition of rioting.
And yes wudjab, violence is justified when it's necessary. You don't get your rights by a smiling face doing nothing but raising signs.

And by the way, I don't care about what happens in your country that's why I don't want to talk about it. I gave no suggestions neither solutions I just carried what some Egyptians told me about the situation there.

Maybe you're very happy and cool with it but I'm not cool with somebody coming up, using a phrase like 'Allahu Akbar' in direct reference to my religion and decapitating somebody on a claimed religious basis. That creates an association, no matter in which shallow mind, between Islam and decapitation of people who have nothing to do with war. And let's face it, terrorists aren't a 'side' of any war, neither the Iraq nor anything else. If you want to go against any invasion you start by attacking the invasion military not getting hostages and chopping their heads off...That, the world knows, is violence and barbarism.


First of all, who made you the represintative of Islam to judge those people ?
Second, it's so funny that you consider those depressed Iraqis ( Who lost their families and struggling to get their land back ) terorists. I found you have your own definition of terrorism.
Third you need to know that in war zones everyone goes to the scene is involved.

Put it this way:
If a soldier comes in, takes my house, gets me out of it, makes of my children orphans and a friend of mine grabs a guy that soldier doesn't know but who simply happens to be of the same nationality and he chops his head off, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't get me back my house. It doesn't re-parent my children and most of all, it doesn't do direct damage to the soldier or his forces and so lead the invasion out of my town. Got it now

Why did you change the story ? I think it should be this way:
If a soldier invaded my country, killed my family then I found another one in my house at the same time of the murder, what do you expect me to do ?

My answer: Kill him cos of course he has something to do with it and I don't think I should be blamed I was out raged and had nothing to lose.

Your answer: Hey man, how you doing ? Have you seen any soldier passing by ? cos I think he killed my family and run away. thanks bye.

UmKhalid this is a good thread. You raise a very good point.

I did not start out in life wanting to see it a negative light. Nobody around me tried to convince me that it was a negative thing.

But seeing footage of terrorists highjacking planes and yell "Allah Akbar" was a strange first impression.


I understand now, it is not just a negative thing. But I am one of the few that actually try to learn.

If it's a war zone, then yes I'm happy and cool, actually MEGA happy to see it. And whatever the claim is either religion, politics or personal.



On what basis you call them terrorists!! What you said is absolutely right, but that when we are away from the action spot and we do not know the reality of it.



Threadlike, "Ph" and "F" sounds the same but the usage is completely different.

So then there is no such things as atrocities in war?

Most Muslims think there is and they complain about war atrocities.

If a fighter or soldier is in a frustrating situation and he just throws a grenade into a house full of civilians ON PURPOSE TO KILL THEM, I want him punished.

I don't care which side he is on or what his cause is.

I don't know what the Muslim law on this is, but I doubt it's just "in war, if your cause is just, kill who you want in any way you want so long as you win."

First of all, who made you the represintative of Islam to judge those people ?
Second, it's so funny that you consider those depressed Iraqis ( Who lost their families and struggling to get their land back ) terorists. I found you have your own definition of terrorism.
Third you need to know that in war zones everyone goes to the scene is involved.

a) Nobody did.
b) I did not say I was made so.
c) I did not post like I was made so. If there's any other person than you who though I posted like I was made so, I sincerely apologize.
d) There is no justification of killing an engineer or a businessman or a reporter cause your family were killed in an invasion. It doesn't make your killing more noble. It doesn't make the act of murder more legitimate. The death of a family is horrifying, nobody said anything. The retaliation however, should be aimed at those who caused it.

Why did you change the story ? I think it should be this way:
If a soldier invaded my country, killed my family then I found another one in my house at the same time of the murder, what do you expect me to do ?

My answer: Kill him cos of course he has something to do with it and I don't think I should be blamed I was out raged and had nothing to lose.

Your answer: Hey man, how you doing ? Have you seen any soldier passing by ? cos I think he killed my family and run away. thanks bye.
a) There was no story to change.
b)So far, I yet have to see a soldier decapitated on tape.
Most of the people who are kidnapped and decapitated by certain 'Islamist' groups tend to be buinsessmen, engineers among others. Your analogy of everybody being a soldier in any war, again, misses the point.
c) Stop assuming crap about my potential answers.


And by the way, I don't care about what happens in your country that's why I don't want to talk about it. I gave no suggestions neither solutions I just carried what some Egyptians told me about the situation there.

Good, I wanted that statement. Given that you don't care two shits, how about you stop arguing with me, at least, over solutions of Egypt's 'bread crisis'? Which you did, btw...Remember this post?
And for Thread like: your bread crisis will subside.
You also told us that you love rioting should it be 'against the responsibles'...Right here:

Add to it: directed to the responsibles. I Love rioting

It was very reasonable to assume you meant the 'responsibles' to be 'the government'. Which is how I based my reply...
You have to riot, damage and destroy every single governmental facility available so that the government gets your message.

A lot like the stone age from which we have thankfully developed, but it fits ElRey who thinks that is solves our bread crisis to destroy facilities built by the govenment for us and riot in streets that are made for our own leisure while destroying shops that we don't own and injuring those who are completely innocent of it all...

The psychology of a rioting herd is to 'get back' a the government. The only way to 'get back' at the government for any rioting herd is to destroy the stuff that the government made. Other than that, with no destruction, no chaos and no havoc, it's called a protest.
What I mentioned is simply what happens in riots, along with many other private, civilian non-governmental losses...Those ones you have also said are fine at one point then you took it back later.

As I said, KINDLY TAKE CARE ON HOW TO USE THE TERM RIOTING NEXT TIME.
You simply didn't.

Yaawn :bored:

Take it this simple, I believe that we start by protesting and if didn't work then rioting and if it didn't work be violent and harmful cos this is how rights are obtained.

What about you, if your peaceful and innocent protest didn't work. What's your next step ? crying ? :D

Very ****ing funny dude :bored:
It depends on what the cause is...You don't seem in the mood to give an examplary cause.
And I'm not in the mood at all for another discussion...And I'm sure you aren't too :D

this thread can teach a lot.....

just spent another delightful 10 mins watching this guy.

http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54098

from protest to engagement....

Just when you thought that Islam is a religion of peace.... we get posts from El-Rey...

Thanks for the compliment :shy:

You're welcome.

No need to be red faced about your atrocious position.

That's pink not red.