"The Prophet peace be upon him said: 'The nations shall gather and team up against you (i.e., Muslims) as the predators gather and team up against their preys.

A questioner asked: 'Is it because of us being low in numbers at that day?' The Prophet replied: 'No, you that day shall be in great numbers, but you will be as powerless as the foam of the water on the surface of the river, and Allah shall remove any fear from your enemies toward you, and He shall put in your hearts a corruption.' A questioner asked: 'O Apostle of Allah, what is the corruption?'

The Prophet replied:'The love of life's amusements and the fear of death.'

( Sunan Abu Dawud, The Book of Fierce Battles - The Gathering of all Nations against Islam, Book 37, Number 4297)"

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Do you think this hadith describes Muslims situation today?

No. I want to die.
I am not afraid of it.

Sounds like Armageddon.

What does that means?

In Christian apocalyptic literature (the Book of Revelation), Armageddon or Har-Mageddon is the site of the final battle between the kings of the earth (incited by Satan) and God. The term is also used for the battle itself, or more broadly for an Apocalypse.

The word armageddon is derived from Mount (Har in Hebrew) Megiddo, the site of the Battle of Megiddo and other battles. Armageddon in Christianity is also anticipated as the final battle between the forces of good (Jesus and his angels) and the forces of evil (Satan and his demons) (see also Dualism). It is the time of final judgment for the wicked humans of earth and the salvation for the just and good humans of earth. It is known as the final purification of the Earth's sin.

"Armageddon" also refers to any great loss of life in battle etc.

If you can read that chapter in the bible it discusses what is written here.

Thanks.

But the hadith is not talking about any battle, the message is that muslims will be many in numbers but the majority don't fully follow the teachings of the Quran and prophet sunnah, so it is a reminder to return back to these teachings. Because the oppsite will cause other nations to attack Islam and muslims as happening today.

Thanks. I guess it just sounded like a battle, something similar as to what a final war would mean when a faith is attacked.

Ice, I think that describes today Muslims perfectly! Muslims have become so enarmoured with life and materialism that we've forgotten to concentrate on our deen. Entire countries can be bought by foreign governments, we've become prostitutes who prostitute our values and beliefs to the highest bidder! :rolleyes::( The Prophet (SAW) certainly had it right!

Ice, what do you think is the reason that Muslims are not as powerful as they were before?

Yes I do think it describes our situation today. Not only are we counted in billions now, scattered all around the world, but corruption as described and our goals, personalities and activities have become pathetic and unproductive.

Yah when I remember these Hadeeths I definitly say it describes the very current muslims and era..



Ice, what do you think is the reason that Muslims are not as powerful as they were before?

He already answered the question here and I agree with it.

Thanks.

But the hadith is not talking about any battle, the message is that muslims will be many in numbers but the majority don't fully follow the teachings of the Quran and prophet sunnah, so it is a reminder to return back to these teachings. Because the oppsite will cause other nations to attack Islam and muslims as happening today.

You think the whole world is conpsirating against us? As in, now?
There are Muslims in China, in the Gulf and in Egypt who do not feel 'conspired at'. I wonder why :rolleyes:

Try to understand the hadith more.

Braiki, your question has been answered as El Rey said.

The Prophet replied:'The love of life's amusements and the fear of death.'



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Do you think this hadith describes Muslims situation today?

You should not have any doubt about the sayings.
Look through your window, answer is there.
Ummah is spited, subservient of corporate economy and wealth.
More bad days are ahead.

There are no doubts in the prophet pbuh true sayings, we can see that the prophet predicted the future of this 'ummah'.

PS: the arabic word which is translated as corruption in the hadith is 'wahan' and in english it means weakness.

I tried Ice...It's not aiming at what you're tryanna say.

What did you understand from it?

And what I'm aiming at?

What I understood: A situation when ALL nations will gather against MUSLIMS. This obviously has not happened.
What you're aiming at: This is happening now.

The hadith doesn't say ALL nations, but nations.

There is a difference you know.

The hadith is not saying that this is a one time full event, it can means a countinouse process and it can happen on a lower or a large scale depending on muslims situation and how close/far fare they rom the teachings of the holy Quran and prophet sunnah.

The haidth clearly says 'THE' Nations.
I'm assuming the Arabic translation will go 'al umam' which would translate to the same meaning in English.

The 'Muslims' is a term referring to ALL Muslims. The 'nations' you are describing, again a guess, are Israel and America who have armies in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan. All those three countries are not 100% Muslim...

Maybe, the Hadith was referring to the crusades, the mongols invasions, the end of Andalusia, the fall of Ottoman empire, the age of the old and new imperialism, the communists invasions, the capitalists greed, and more.

+Salam.

You think the whole world is conpsirating against us? As in, now?
There are Muslims in China, in the Gulf and in Egypt who do not feel 'conspired at'. I wonder why :rolleyes:

No one said the world was conspiring against Muslims, the hadeeth just highlights that Islam will start to fall, that it will become easy for others to discredit muslims etc etc The hadeeth is not about conspiracy but about muslims themselves becoming weak and open to fitna. its a warning to Muslims not a lecture on conspiracy theories :rolleyes:

I wouldnt use Egypt as a good example - they sold out. :dev:

HEYLLO?!
Are you reading the same thing I'm reading:
as the predators gather and team up against their preys

Really I can't see what ELSE other than a major conspiracy and action against Muslim can this hadith mean. I repeat, this is obviously not happening today as there are MANY Muslims out there who do not feel preys to any predators.
What does Egypt has to do with anything here? My point is that many Muslims, a number of Egyptians and me amongst them, do not feel that the whole world is against them for them being Muslims. And many of them are working to make their countries better places to live...Unless of course you've missed the Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1999, Nobel Prize in Literature 1988, Nobel Peace Prize 2006, Nobel Peace Prize 2005, Nobel Peace Prize 2003 and Nobel Prize in Physics 1979...

OOOhhhh wwwhopee Nobel prizes. What does that have to do with anything? And btw the last one was 9YEARS ago... improving? I think not. Youre having a problem with the translation - "al" in arabic may mean "the" in English but its not used in the same contxt. Sigh...... translations always suck! Thread, perhaps you should read it in Arabic? :rolleyes: Its not a conspiracy theory, its a warning to Muslims to stand together and support each other and improve their deen. :cute:

And I'd really really rather not comment on Egypt and its so called "development" thats a whole other thread:p

To say that you can't read would be an overstatement.
The last Nobel Prize won by a Muslim was in 2006, by Muhammed Yunus who happens to be a Muslim from Bangladesh. The second last was in 2005 by Al Baradei, a Muslim Egyptian. The third last was in 2003 by Shirin Ebadi, a Muslim from Iran.

Now it's the translation's fault. *sigh*
Where did I talk of Egypt's development? Would you hate it if that is actually happening? Why are you focusing on Egypt? Are you anti-Egyptian, do Egyptians make you feel inferior or something? I mean, all those are reasons why you'd concentrate so much on my own country, I'd like to know the specific one.

Nobel Prize winners are quite a huge measure of how well a country is developing academically and in various fields including Literature, Chemistry, Physics, Medicine with the Peace prize being given for efforts to preserve peace...Why are you so defensive that some Muslims are winning it? I'm proud of all those who won it! It's an honor to me as a Muslim!

Really I can't see what ELSE other than a major conspiracy and action against Muslim can this hadith mean. I repeat, this is obviously not happening today as there are MANY Muslims out there who do not feel preys to any predators.
...

The hadith doesn't say ALL muslims will feel that, obviously muslims who are in the state of 'wahan' (weakness) are in sleeping mode.

I think you need to improve your arabic Thread. :)

It's a pity IceTea that you didn't read the hadith yourself.
The hadith clearly mentions '(i.e: Muslims)'.

If the whole world was against Muslims, why do they invite them to live in their countries in larger and larger numbers and build huge mosques and have their politicians (with only one or two exceptions) say nice things about the religion, even while they trash the religions of their grandfathers?

:no:You think the whole world is conpsirating against us? As in, now?
There are Muslims in China, in the Gulf and in Egypt who do not feel 'conspired at'. I wonder why :rolleyes:

You brought it up, perhaps its not only your arabic that needs work but your English too.....:rolleyes: I just said Egyptians werent a good example....:rolleyes:

Nobel Prize winners are quite a huge measure of how well a country is developing academically and in various fields including Literature, Chemistry, Physics, Medicine with the Peace prize being given for efforts to preserve peace...Why are you so defensive that some Muslims are winning it? I'm proud of all those who won it! It's an honor to me as a Muslim!

We are all proud of Nobel laureattes, but the Nobel prize doesnt recognise countries development, but the achievements of individuals on behalf of their fellow man ( Now that would include ALL humans - note theres no Nobel for a specific religion or country)

My point is that many Muslims, a number of Egyptians and me amongst them, do not feel that the whole world is against them for them being Muslims.v
Well good for you, neither do I neither did the hadeeth or anyone else here.:os PS note the number of times YOU mention Egypt...:rolleyes:

1979
The prize was divided equally between:

SHELDON L. GLASHOW, ABDUS SALAM and STEVEN WEINBERG for their contributions to the theory of the unified weak and electromagnetic interaction between elementary particles, including inter alia the prediction of the weak neutral current.

As you can see, I was following your comments on Egyptian developmnt and this is last time an egyptian won a Nobel prize. 9years ago.


And I really dont get what youre waffling on about. Please go back to the original post and re read the hadeeth and the question. You seemed to have missed the point........... by a mile!

I thought Thready was just saying that although there is a conflict between some Westerners and some Muslims, the relationship is not one of "being against".

It's more complicated than that, with many factors of openness too...

( Sunan Abu Dawud, The Book of Fierce Battles - The Gathering of all Nations against Islam, Book 37, Number 4297)"

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Do you think this hadith describes Muslims situation today?

Of course. It's called the New World Order. (and the usage of such limbs such as the UN, etc to promote it).

hijabi the hadith clearly mentions the Muslims being 'preys' the others being 'predators'.

Stop playing word-games.
The last Nobel Prize winner who was an Egyptian Muslim won it in 2005. That was three years ago. You deserve an F (for ****ed Up) in Maths.

But to pursue such a discussion would be a possible wastage of my time. And I'm sure, yours too...

"Like the foam of the water on the surface of the river"

Explains exactly how we are. We're numbed by 'life's amusements' so much that we don't care about religion and don't 'fear death'. Fearing death means we will always put in mind that we will one day be questioned about this life and how we lived it.

We fear people more than we fear God, that's why we are heading from bad to worse.

The hadeeth definitely describes how Muslims are today and how they have been for a very, very long time.

It wouldn't be a surprise if governments of other nations got to group up against us. They won't be grouping against ISLAM, though, they will be grouping against MUSLIMS. Weak, numb Muslims.

Forgive me...Apparently I'm living on a frozen lake on Mars.
How is the world 'grouping' against Muslims?
a) There is no Muslim state.
b) Muslims are evident everywhere around the globe.
c) Muslims are earning international prizes in various fields.
d) Muslims are allowed to build their mosques and worship in lands that are essentially non-Muslim.

We have simply not reached THAT STAGE OF CORRUPTION YET since we are not yet the single 'preys' of others. Why you're so tensed up about reaching it or 'admitting' it when it's not there beats me.

Why does it have to be on a Muslim state? It's not like the hadith is talking about war.

Anyway, I have to go to sleep now. Brothe Threadlike I'd like to understand your point of view, but only when you've calmed down. You always have something good to say, and I never forget the times I thought I was right but was proved to be wrong, and the are so many. So again, I really want to understand your point of view.

Good night :)

Sister UmK...I appreciate that.
I've never been calmer.
I'd love to hear your say on this.

:p Oh come on! I asked first!

Would OBL and mates be classed a 'weak Muslims'?