There is a huge cry these days by certain groups claiming that the Quran is anti-Semitic, even leading to certain of its translations being banned in various school districts in the United States of America.[1] We read about the definition of anti-Semitism in the Jewish Encyclopedia:

“The term ‘Anti-Semitism’ has its origin in the ethnological theory that the Jews, as Semites, are entirely different from the Aryan, or Indo-European, populations and can never be amalgamated with them. The word implies that the Jews are not opposed on account of their religion, but on account of their racial characteristics.”[2]

One will immediately realize from this statement that the Quran is not at all anti-Semitic, and that the verses which do reprimand the Jews are specific to certain transgressions they made in regards to their religion, and not in regard to their racial origin.

Who are the Semites?
Biblically, the most general designation of the Semites are all the descendants of Shem, one of the three sons of Noah, either the first or the last in conflicting opinions of biblical scholars, but always the first mentioned.[3] It was in the house of Shem were the Shekinah[4] was to dwell, and he is singled out with much other praise and blessings in the Bible. “…it is clear that, according to the Biblical classification, the Arabs, Babylonians, Assyrians, Arameans, and Hebrews were regarded as Semites, or the descendants of Shem.”[5] Modern scholars, placing greater emphasis on language derivation, include Abyssinians, Phenicians, Canaanites, Hebrews, Moabites, and Edomites to those mentioned before.

In whichever context we discuss the subjects, the Arabs, like the Hebrews (and thus Jews), are clearly Semites as well. Thus to say that the Quran is anti-Semitic is to say that the Quran makes the entire Semitic race inferior others, and that would include Arabs as well, something improbable as God favored both these nations with Prophets.

In rabbinical texts of the Jews, the priesthood of Shem is transferred to Abraham, and it is from this transference of priesthood that the Jews take themselves to be the chosen people and claim ownership of the lands of Canaan, in which lies present day Palestine. As they claim the Shekinah to have transferred to Abraham and his progeny, specifically Isaac, and thus the Semitic preference of God is specific to them, and more specifically the Israelites, the progeny of Israel, also known as Isaac, son of Abraham.

The Semites, “A Chosen People”
Rather than rendering the Israelites as being an inferior race, the Quran affirms their favorable position amongst humanity. This is due to the immense sacrifices of Abraham and his invocations to God to make prophets from his progeny that God had chosen his children as the receptacles of Prophecy. Abraham called to his Lord:

“And We bestowed upon him (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, each of them We guided, and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good doers. And Zachariah, and John and Jesus and Elias, each one of them was of the righteous. And Ishmael and Elisha, and Jonah and Lot, and each one of them We preferred above all the worlds. And also some of their fathers and their progeny and their brethren, We chose them, and We guided them to a Straight Path. This is the Guidance of God with which He guides whomsoever He will of His slaves. But if they had joined in worship others with God, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them. They are those whom We gave the Book, the Understanding, and Prophethood…” (Quran 6:83-87)

The Israelites are a chosen people, because God chose to raise prophets amongst them. The Quran in numerous places recognizes this favor and reminds the Israelites of it.

“O Children of Israel (the Israelites), remember and mention the favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I favored you amongst all the worlds.” (Quran 2:47, 2:122)

“And indeed We gave the Children of Israel (the Israelites) the Scripture, and the understanding of the Scripture and its laws, and the Prophethood; and provided them with good things, and preferred them above all the worlds.” (Quran 45:16)

God favored them with numerous blessings in addition to the Prophets, such as providing them heavenly food, called manna and salwaa.[6]

“O Children of Israel (the Israelites)! We delivered you from your enemy, and We made a covenant with you on the right side of the Mount, and We sent down to you Manna and quails (salwaa).” (Quran 20:80)

God saved them from the savagery of Pharaoh by sending to them Moses, who led them across the Red Sea to inhabit the “Blessed Land” of Canaan.

“And We made the people who were considered weak to inherit the eastern parts of the land and the western parts thereof which We have blessed. And the fair Word of your Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel (the Israelites), because of their endurance. And We destroyed completely all the great works and buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected.” (Quran 7:137)

This preference given to the Israelites was not on account of their racial superiority, as mentioned earlier, but rather due to the great sacrifices of Abraham and his supplications which God answered, and this preference was given to the Israelites as long as they kept to their covenant which God made with them.

“Indeed God took the covenant from the Children of Israel (Jews), and We appointed twelve leaders among them. And God said: “I am with you if you establish the prayer and offer the Zakat (compulsory charity) and believe in My Messengers; honor and assist them, and lend to God a good loan. Verily, I will remit your sins and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise). But if any of you after this, disbelieved, he has indeed gone astray from the Straight Path.” (Quran 5:12)

God’s Favor is in keeping to the Commandments
As mentioned earlier, the favor of God towards the Israelites was with them as long as they kept to the Covenant which God made with them. This fact is also stated by Jews themselves: “Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah.”[1]

Thus we understand that the favor of God is not a racial aspect, nor is it binding till eternity. Rather, His favor is upon those that fulfill the commandments. An Israelite who does not keep to the commandments is not included in this favor.

The Jews broke the Covenant of God
God mentions in numerous places in the Quran that the Jews broke the covenant God made with them, through various transgressions they committed in their religion. These transgressions, varied from falling in to error and worshipping others besides God, an act which broke the first of the ten commandments[2], to changing and interpolating the Torah to their befitting[3]. Out of the Mercy of God, He continued to send prophets to them for their rectification. Instead of following the Prophets which God sent to them, if they brought something which the Rabbis did not like, they would reject the Prophets and even kill them. This certainly amounted to disbelief in God, and, due to this, the favor which God had for the Jews was lifted. God says in the Quran:

“Indignity is put over them (the Jews) wherever they may be, except when under a covenant (of protection) from God, and from men; they have drawn on themselves the Wrath of God, and destruction is put over them. This is because they disbelieved in the Signs of God and killed the Prophets without right. This is because they disobeyed (God) and used to transgress beyond bounds (in God's disobedience, crimes and sins).” (Quran 3:112)

The Bible too speaks this fact of the Jews killing the prophets of God in 1 Thessalonians 2:15, and repeated in Acts 7:52. We also read in Romans 11:3 that the Prophet Elijah appealed against the Israelites:

“Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me.”

One of the most serious of these offenses was the rejection of Jesus, a clear sign and miracle sent to the Jews. It was through this Prophet that the favor of God towards the Jews as a nation was replaced by His Anger and Wrath. The only Jews who remained “chosen” were those who followed Jesus: the Nazarene Christians[4].

Are Christians the Chosen People of God?
A fact that Christians and Muslims both agree to, contrary to the Jews, is that the Love of God is not limited or specific to a chosen race, but rather, to those who keep to his covenants. Although Jesus was sent specifically to the Jews[5], Christianity has seen itself throughout history to be a religion for all people. Thus, according to Christians, anyone who accepts the teachings of Jesus earns the Love of God and His Grace and Favor, and anyone who rejects it is doomed to Hell.

This is a point which Muslims also agree to, but the fact remains that the Christians do not actually follow the teachings of Jesus, as He ordered his followers to keep to the commandment of the Jews, the greatest of which is that God alone deserves worship. It is the Christians’ worship of Jesus and ascribing divinity to him that is one of the reasons why they have also earned the anger and not the favor of God.

Reprimanding of Other Peoples
When we analyze the verses which reprimand the Jews in the Quran, we see, as mentioned previously, that they revolve around certain commandments which they broke, and certain punishments which were meted out to them. This criticism is not limited to the Jews, but it is clearly extended in the Quran and Sunnah to all those who disobey the commandments of God throughout history until this day, even the Muslims. God says about a Muslim who kills another Muslim intentionally:

“And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein, and the Wrath and the Curse of God are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him.” (Quran 4:93)

We see from this that these severe verses found in the Quran are addressed to all those who break the commandments of God, and not to specific races or peoples. Likewise, the only people who are chosen and favored by God are the pious from every nation, and not a specific race or people. Jews, Christians, and all others who were true to their religion and original teachings will go to Paradise, as God himself says:

“Verily! Those who have believed (the Muslims) and those who were Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever correctly believed in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds, they shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” (Quran 2:62)

Those, however, who did not follow the commandments of their religion, and do not believe in Islam, are destined to Hell. This is because Islam is the only religion which is accepted by God after the revelation of his Final Message to Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him.

“Verily those who disbelieve from among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.” (Quran 98:6)

Unfortunately I don't consider the Quran and Christian Scriptures an authority on the Jews.

Also the Quran may not be anti-semitic (and no I'm not playing semantics with the word) but I think it does add fuel to the fire.

We also read in Romans 11:3 that the Prophet Elijah appealed against the Israelites:

“Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me.”

The person who wrote this essay obviously doesn't know the bible. Elijah appealed against the Israelites which is correct, BUT (and its a big but) Israel at this time was broken up into two. The Israelites in the north and the Judaeans (the Jews) to the south.

Now go and find me something a bit more challenging than this tripe.

Unfortunately I don't consider the Quran and Christian Scriptures an authority on the Jews.

Also the Quran may not be anti-semitic (and no I'm not playing semantics with the word) but I think it does add fuel to the fire.

How does the Quran adds fuel to the fire?

How does the Quran adds fuel to the fire?

Because its disparaging.

The person who wrote this essay obviously doesn't know the bible. Elijah appealed against the Israelites which is correct, BUT (and its a big but) Israel at this time was broken up into two. The Israelites in the north and the Judaeans (the Jews) to the south.

Now go and find me something a bit more challenging than this tripe.

Really, Ice Tea, this is absolutely true.

The problem with a lot of the stuff you quote is just that the people who write it are unfamiliar with what they are writing about, so they make simple errors that even people only barely familiar with the subject matter would find.

You can be pro or con almost anything, but you have to know your material.

Because its disparaging.

The Quran is the book of truth. And the true word of God.

Jeff, I don't see how what Kara said change the fact the Jews killed Allah prophets.

Jeff, I don't see how what Kara said change the fact the Jews killed Allah prophets.

Well, it's an example of gross ignorance, that's all.

If I give you a paper than says that the name Oman comes from the words "Oh, Man!" and that the capital of Oman is Riyadh will you think the rest of it is worth paying attention to?

The Jews didn't kill Abraham. The Jews didn't kill Moses. The Jews didn't kill Elijah.

According to you, the Jews didn't kill Jesus.

So which prophets are you talking about?

God sent thousands of prophets by name only 25 mentioned in the Quran, the Quran didn't state the prophets names which were killed by Jews (only the fact has been stated) same as not mentioning all the thousands prophets which were sent to people.

The Quran is the book of truth. And the true word of God.

The Torah is the book of truth and the true word of God.

Its a silly argument you should know better.

God sent thousands of prophets by name only 25 mentioned in the Quran, the Quran didn't state the prophets names which were killed by Jews (only the fact has been stated) same as not mentioning all the thousands prophets which were sent to people.

How come it doesn't mention any? Weren't they important?

Jeff, I don't see how what Kara said change the fact the Jews killed Allah prophets.

That is because you won't read the bible. The Israelites did it, not the Jews.
Its all there in Kings.

God sent thousands of prophets by name only 25 mentioned in the Quran, the Quran didn't state the prophets names which were killed by Jews (only the fact has been stated) same as not mentioning all the thousands prophets which were sent to people.

They're not named because its not true.

How come it doesn't mention any? Weren't they important?

My theory is because the writer of the Quran relied to much on the Tanakh and Christian scriptures for that kind of information.

I think the main point is not that no Jews ever stoned any prophets.

The unusual thing about the Jews is that though the prophets were sometimes not listened to, the general pattern is that they WERE listened to in the end.

That's why the Jews preserved their books.

Jewish Old Testament history is very unusual. Most people want to preserve only stories of their victories and the great things they did as a nation.

What makes the Jews unusual is that the only greatness they have comes from God and His words to them. They present themselves as having failed God many times.

That means they are more honest and better than almost any other people that has existed on earth.

How come it doesn't mention any? Weren't they important?

Allah knows what is important to mention and what is not important, if there is a benefit for human being he would have mentioned all prophet names.

My theory is because the writer of the Quran relied to much on the Tanakh and Christian scriptures for that kind of information.

Who is the writer of the Quran?

Just have to say it is interesting to see three dynamics here of Jewish, Christian and Islamic teachings. I think the key to being heard is always being respectful irregardless if you believe what that other person is saying or not. As a Christian I believe as Jeff does. I love how he is able to put forth what I know in my heart but find a difficult time expressing into words.

Allah knows what is important to mention and what is not important, if there is a benefit for human being he would have mentioned all prophet names.

Allah knows best, indeed.

But my point is really just that the ones He tells us about are the most important ones...at least for us.

And those ones weren't stoned by the Jews. In fact, the Jews admired them, followed them and preserved their writings.

So, I don't think you can just say, "The Jews stone the prophets" without saying much, much more.

I can say what the Quran says:

Indignity is put over them (the Jews) wherever they may be, except when under a covenant (of protection) from God, and from men; they have drawn on themselves the Wrath of God, and destruction is put over them. This is because they disbelieved in the Signs of God and killed the Prophets without right. This is because they disobeyed (God) and used to transgress beyond bounds (in God's disobedience, crimes and sins).” (Quran 3:112)

I can say what the Quran says:

Indignity is put over them (the Jews) wherever they may be, except when under a covenant (of protection) from God, and from men; they have drawn on themselves the Wrath of God, and destruction is put over them. This is because they disbelieved in the Signs of God and killed the Prophets without right. This is because they disobeyed (God) and used to transgress beyond bounds (in God's disobedience, crimes and sins).” (Quran 3:112)
so it's true that there are parts of your book that can incite hatred....

Tea,

Do you also believe that Jews are the sons of apes and pigs ?

Since when stating facts is considered hatred?

Tea,

Do you also believe that Jews are the sons of apes and pigs ?

Since when stating facts is considered hatred?

Well, I suppose it all depends on how you interpret the passage.

But let me ask you this. Suppose you read somewhere:

God has put shame over all the Muslims everywhere--although sometimes He protects them and men do too. God is angry with them and it is their own fault. That's because they don't believe in what God truly teaches and they murder those who testify to the Truth. They are disobedient ones.


how do you think Muslims would react?

I bet many would say Islamophobia, religious hatred, insult, etc.

Since when stating facts is considered hatred?

Ever heard of the word libel?

Anyway its not a fact, someone was confused between an Israelite and a Judaean.

For me that quote from the Quran about Jews seems a little on the hostile side and the way Jeff converted it over to show a Muslim how nasty it can sound using reverse psychology well...it kind of forces you to walk a mile in that other person's shoes so to speak. Not too pretty.

Tea,

Do you also believe that Jews are the sons of apes and pigs ?

^^

I am not saying that there might not be more benign interpretations that are not anti-Semitic.

But this is what I would love to ask Tea or other Muslims.

Imagine that you had a sincere Jewish girl--or a non-Jewish girl who had had Jewish friends. They listened to your duah and they read about Islam and saw the lives of Muslims and they were very impressed and seriously moved to make shahada. But they still have some doubts

They came to you with the passage quoted above and said:

"There are a few things that keep me back and this is one of them. I have tried and tried, but this just doesn't seem right to me. This doesn't sound like my family. This doesn't sound like the Jews I have known. And it doesn't sound like me.

"My family and friends were completely sincere. They were good people, they were compassionate and they had a strong belief in God. But they also believed in the Torah and not in Jesus and Mohammed.

"I know I wasn't a liar yesterday when I was a Jew. And I can't believe my family are evil or that Jews in general are evil.

"Can I be a Muslim without believing that Jews are wicked and everywhere cursed?"

What would you offer them?

Concerning the claim of killing prophets: SOME wicked Jews, not all of them, or even most of them, but only a handful of them, killed certain prophets. So these people were wicked, and they were punished. So what! The Hebrew Scripture, including the very prophets whose honor is so zealously being defended, says clearly that no matter what, G-d will not abolish His special covenant with the Jewish people. It is not conditional on their good deeds. True, they were sent into exile for their sins, but the same prophets predicted in numerous prophecies that the Jewish people would be returned to their land and former glory in the Messianic age.

How ironic that that who claim to be oh so concerned about rebelling against the Jewish prophets are the same ones who dismiss their words concerning the eternity of the halacha, the Torah Law, words that the Jews, even while in their current state of exile, continue to eagerly affirm in their Torah study and deeds, and await and pray for the coming of the Jewish Messiah, with the fulfillment of the holy Jewish prophets' predictions, may it happen NOW!!

^^

I am not saying that there might not be more benign interpretations that are not anti-Semitic.

But this is what I would love to ask Tea or other Muslims.

Imagine that you had a sincere Jewish girl--or a non-Jewish girl who had had Jewish friends. They listened to your duah and they read about Islam and saw the lives of Muslims and they were very impressed and seriously moved to make shahada. But they still have some doubts

They came to you with the passage quoted above and said:



What would you offer them?


When Islam came. It condemned Arabs before and condemned what they were doing like burrying girls alive, killing each others for years for a silly reason, and doing many shamefull stuff in the time of Jaheleyah ( Ignorance ), yet arab Muslim didnt say Sorry but our fathers and ancestors were good people and we don't accept this from the Quran or God. However they said what God is telling are facts and those facts are,unfortunately true cos God will say nothing but truth and most of those arab muslims turned against their parents who insisted to be non muslims.

If those jews really interested in Islam and feel it's the right path for them, then those words you've just quoted won't make them go back but on the contrary may make them better believers and muslims.

Because its disparaging

For me that quote from the Quran about Jews seems a little on the hostile side and the way Jeff converted it over to show a Muslim how nasty it can sound using reverse psychology well...it kind of forces you to walk a mile in that other person's shoes so to speak. Not too pretty.

Marianna (as we Muslims believe) God is not evil. He is not unjust.
He gives people chances. People screw them up. He doesn't deny the ones who take them His mercy and His forgiveness, nor his everlasting Paradise.
If we, for the sake of argument, take the assumption that the Qura'n paints the People of the Book in one brush, we're ignoring quite a number of verses. Among them is 2:62. In fact, if you read the context of verse 3:112 completely it becomes rather evident. From the same Surah of the Qura'n (Which is The House of Imran/Chapter 3), the three following verse clarify the verse 112 further:
113. Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.
114. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous.
115. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right.

Those imply (and explicitly, no matter how many ways you go around the verse, especially 2:62) that the People of the Book (Christians and Jews) are NOT all the same in the eyes of God.

There are verses which seem to take a neutral position, verses 22:16 and verse 22:17 (The Pilgrimage/Chapter 22):
16. Thus have We sent down Clear Signs; and verily Allah doth guide whom He will!
17. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things.

This is insofar as I know...I hope that was not off-topic nor a boring post to read.

Cant u c that they r the choosen ones? the world is fighting for them, millions are killed just for them.

Thread, I don't want to go off topic but people of the book in the verses which you have quoted are not the ones who believe Jesus is God and not the ones who believe in the Trinity. They are the ones who believe in the oneness of Allah as we muslims believe.

And Allah knows best.

Ofcourse they are :Sick:
Look at Amy Winehouse :p

Ice, I don't want to go off-topic either but I think you're wrong and that the interpretation of the verses clearly explains them the way I do. If you would like, we can continue this particular discussion on PM!

Allah knows best.

I'm a bit confused now. Why are we blaming Jews for killing the previous prophets when the verse clearly says 'Bani Israeel= Children of Israel'. Judaism came with the Torah, the Torah came with Moses :PBUH:, so 'Jews' as in people following the Torah never killed any prophets. The children of Israel did.

Correct me if I'm wrong please

I'm a bit confused now. Why are we blaming Jews for killing the previous prophets when the verse clearly says 'Bani Israeel= Children of Israel'. Judaism came with the Torah, the Torah came with Moses :PBUH:, so 'Jews' as in people following the Torah never killed any prophets. The children of Israel did.

Correct me if I'm wrong please

Chlidren of Israel lived in Egypt for a very long time and they were oppressed by Pharaoh until Moses rescued them and took them to Palastine. After a period of time, the majority of these people strayed the right path so Allah started to send prophets to them in order to guide them and fix the corrupted belief (e.g. claiming that God has a son) but many of these prophets were killed or displaced.

Still confused. You brought the example of the prophet which Jews claimed was the son of God. But this was after Judaism, after the Torah. What about the killing of prophets (for example Yahya and Zakariya)? That happened before Judaism, right?

Samdawy is right, I'd just like to add that Moses took them back to palestine, the land of their grandfather, Jacob (AKA Israel).

I'd also like to add that Judaism was not called that in the time of Moses, it was called Judaism (I think) at the times of David and Solomon, since they are the descendants of Judas, one of Jacobs sons.
In English:
Judas = Judaism
In arabic:
Yahotha = Yahodiya

Judaism was not called that in the time of Moses

It wasn't? Then what was it called? :think:

What I know is that Jews are people who follow Judaism. Like Muslims follow Islam and Christians follow Christianity.

Does this means being 'Jewish' did not always mean following a religion? But a person who is a descendant of Judas? (Before the Torah came)

Umkhalid, Prophet Yahya (John the Baptist in the bible) was killed by a Jewish king (or a prince) called , and there's a story behind his killing. However, many Jews were sad for his death.
As for Prophet Zakhariya, he was stoned to death by some group of Jews (I am not very sure of the story details)

But then again, Jesus Christ himself is quoted in the Bible saying: "O jerusalem Jerusalem, you that kills the prophets and stone those who were sent to you"

However, I think it's as mono put it, some wicked jews did the killings, not everybody was happy with the killing of the prophets, otherwise they wouldn't have their books in the Bible!
Just like the small group of jews who worshiped the golden calf, and the small group who claimed that Ezra (Ozair) was God's Son!
Some might not be written about in the Bible, which is because they were the minority of wicked jews!

It wasn't? Then what was it called? :think:

What I know is that Jews are people who follow Judaism. Like Muslims follow Islam and Christians follow Christianity.

Does this means being 'Jewish' did not always mean following a religion? But a person who is a descendant of Judas? (Before the Torah came)

It didn't have a name In the torah, it didn't need a name since it was the only religion that worshiped the God of Abraham, there's no such things as "Judaism".
It's confusing I know, its a mix of race and religion.
a "Jew" is a person that follows Judaism, it doesn't mean that he has to be a descendant of Judas.
But the naming, afaik, came from the descendants of Judas, describing the religion.
Now for the race, they are called Israelis, or the children of Israel, to describe the descendants of Jacob!

Example, I'm an Arab, I decide to become a Jew, then I'm a Jewish who follows the Religion of Judaism.

Confused? :p

I'm still a bit confused about the difference between Jews and Children of Isreal. Not all Jews are Children of Isreal, since they are named because they descend from Israel(Jacob PBUH), there are Arab Jews, African Jews. Why is Judaism always associated to what the children of Israel did if Judaism (despite the info about the name being different before) came after the Torah?

But anyway, thanks for the explanation about the origin of the name and what Jews believe regarding this matter, Braiki :)

Ah! Wait, I didn't see the post before my last one ... :p Just give me a few minutes.

UmK!

I can clear up the "name problem."

Abraham had a son called Jacob who was also called "Israel". His descendant were called "the children of Israel".

These people were divided up into twelve tribes. The Twelve Tribes of Israel settled in Palestine and had a great Kingdom under David and Solomon with its capital at Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is in lands of the tribe called "Judah".

Shortly after Solomon, there was a dispute among the tribes and the Kingdom of Israel split into two: the northern Kingdom and the southern Kingdom.

Those children of Israel in the north Kingdom had their capital at Samaria. They rejected David and Solomon and the cult of Temple Worship in Jerusalem. And they came to be called "Samaritans". There are still a few hundred left in Palestine.

The children of Israel in the south Kingdom, with its capital at Jerusalem, despised the Samaritans as heretics. They wouldn't talk to them or eat with them or have anything to do with them.

Those from the south Kingdom were almost all from the land of Judah and the tribe of Judah. So their kingdom was often called "Judah" and the people were called "Judahns" or "Judeans".

That came to be "Yehudi" in Hebrew, "Jud" in German, "Jew" in English.

See:

Here's a map showing the "Divided Kingdom":

The North Kingdom, usually called "Israel"

and the South Kingdom, usually called "Judah".

http://www.bible-history.com/map_israel_judah/ot_israel_divided_kingdom_shg.jpg

Jeff, I don't think Jerusalem as a name has to do anything with Judaism, just in case you are suggesting that.
The real name of Jerusalem is `Orshalim, 'Or means Land (not sure in hebrew or Aramic), and Shalim means peace, which makes it: The land of Peace.

It didn't have a name In the torah, it didn't need a name since it was the only religion that worshiped the God of Abraham, there's no such things as "Judaism".
It's confusing I know, its a mix of race and religion.
a "Jew" is a person that follows Judaism, it doesn't mean that he has to be a descendant of Judas.
But the naming, afaik, came from the descendants of Judas, describing the religion.
Now for the race, they are called Israelis, or the children of Israel, to describe the descendants of Jacob!

Example, I'm an Arab, I decide to become a Jew, then I'm a Jewish who follows the Religion of Judaism.

Confused? :p

Alright problem solved! :p

Now when the Quran says 'Children of Israel', it's talking about the ... Children of Israel, right? Not the Jews. That's confusing me, because reading the English translation, some translations add Jews between brackets.

^ Three posts! I'm too slow!

It speaks to the Children of Israel as a race, since they were the chosen ones to carry the message (which was called Judaism after that). Even in the Holy Quraan God distinguishes between Children of Israel and Jews.

Translations and explanations are man made, I wouldn't take them for granted.

Thanks for the explanation, Jeff. Another question just popped up. I'm so sorry!

Why was 'Judaism' chosen to be the name of the religion? Not Israel...ism ... or anything else?

It speaks to the Children of Israel as a race, since they were the chosen ones to carry the message (which was called Judaism after that). Even in the Holy Quraan God distinguishes between Children of Israel and Jews.Translations and explanations are man made, I wouldn't take them for granted.

Very true. I guess this is what got me confused in the first place:

“Indeed God took the covenant from the Children of Israel (Jews), and We appointed twelve leaders among them. And God said: “I am with you if you establish the prayer and offer the Zakat (compulsory charity) and believe in My Messengers; honor and assist them, and lend to God a good loan. Verily, I will remit your sins and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise). But if any of you after this, disbelieved, he has indeed gone astray from the Straight Path.” (Quran 5:12)

“O Children of Israel (the Israelites), remember and mention the favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I favored you amongst all the worlds.” (Quran 2:47, 2:122)


In the Quran it says: Children of Isreal, without mentioning if they were 'Jews' or 'Israelites'.

janeee (girl) me n jeff just said it to you laa :p

janeee (girl) me n jeff just said it to you laa :p

Appeih! Koja man nachaart?? :p (Oh! Where I didn't see it?)

That came to be "Yehudi" in Hebrew, "Jud" in German, "Jew" in English.
From Grandpa Jeff :p

Jeff, I don't think Jerusalem as a name has to do anything with Judaism, just in case you are suggesting that.
The real name of Jerusalem is `Orshalim, 'Or means Land (not sure in hebrew or Aramic), and Shaim means peace, which makes it: The land of Peace.

I agree!

No, I wasn't saying the name "Jerusalem" has to do with the name of Judaism.

But Jerusalem was the capital of the Kingdom of Judah, the southern Kingdom. And the name of "Judaism" comes from the name of the Kingdom of Judah, that had Jerusalem as its capital and religious center.

Aye, my bad (see I'm getting old myself *cough*)

Oh yes I read that, but what I meant was that why the RELIGION was named 'Judaism', and not anything else. Since it didn't have a name before.

Or was that question also answered but I didn't understand? :think:

Ok, I've annoyed you two enough ... for today :p

Good night. :)

nah, the only purpose of having knowledge is sharing it ;)
as I said, I believe it was called Judaism because David and Solomon were kings, and if you follow their family tree, they end up to Judas (from the house of Judas, he is one of the 12 tribes founders, one of Prophet Joseph's brothers).
So that's why the religion was called Judaism.
But I don't know why Judas and not Jacob, since Jacob is the father of the 12 tribes.
Maybe Jeff knows the answer!

The point is, the name of the religion changes.

Before the split between the Kingdoms, there is "the religion of Israel."

After the split, there are two groups and BOTH claim to be "the religion of Israel".

So we call them

"Samaritans" and "Jews".

Jews believe in Temple worship; Samaritans don't.

Jews accept the prophets after the Torah; Samaritans don't.

Jews believe they are the true religious descendants of Israel; Samaritans disagree and say that they are.

Jesus had good relations with the Samaritans, to the shock of many Jews.

But He famously said to the Samaritan woman at the well,

"You Samaritans worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand. Salvation comes from the Jews."

Now that's another interesting thing I learnt today! Thanx alot Jeff

nah, the only purpose of having knowledge is sharing it ;)
as I said, I believe it was called Judaism because David and Solomon were kings, and if you follow their family tree, they end up to Judas (from the house of Judas, he is one of the 12 tribes founders, one of Prophet Joseph's brothers).
So that's why the religion was called Judaism.
But I don't know why Judas and not Jacob, since Jacob is the father of the 12 tribes.
Maybe Jeff knows the answer!

Well, Jews and Christians will tell you this:

Only the tribe of Judah (and the Levite priests who had no land) followed God's true religion. The other Israelite tribes fell away and had a twisted version of our religion.

So the religion is the religion of the children of Judah. Hence, Judaism.

Okay:

Moses lived when? Before the split between the religion of Judah and the religion of the other tribes? Or after?

Answer: Before.

Therefore: Moses was not, strictly speaking, "a Jew".

Mary, Jesus' mother, lived when? Before the split between the religion of Judah and the religion of the other tribes? Or after?

Answer: After.

Therefore: Mary, Jesus' mother, was "a Jew".

Now that's another interesting thing I learnt today! Thanx alot Jeff

Grandpa says: You're welcome! :p

Well, Jews and Christians will tell you this:

Only the tribe of Judah (and the Levite priests who had no land) followed God's true religion. The other Israelite tribes fell away and had a twisted version of our religion.

So the religion is the religion of the children of Judah. Hence, Judaism.

Okay:

Moses lived when? Before the split between the religion of Judah and the religion of the other tribes? Or after?

Answer: Before.

Therefore: Moses was not, strictly speaking, "a Jew".

Mary, Jesus' mother, lived when? Before the split between the religion of Judah and the religion of the other tribes? Or after?

Answer: After.

Therefore: Mary, Jesus' mother, was "a Jew".

Yep totally understood. That's why I'm saying it came around the time of David and Solomon.
Moses is not of the Judas descendants in the first place :p that's why it wouldn't make sense to say that he was a "jew"! :p
interesting bits here and there we learnt in today's lesson!

Yep totally understood. That's why I'm saying it came around the time of David and Solomon.
Moses is not of the Judas descendants in the first place :p that's why it wouldn't make sense to say that he was a "jew"! :p
interesting bits here and there we learnt in today's lesson!

Yeeeeah, but the Levites of the Kingdom of Judah were also known as Jews because they were from that Kingdom.

Moses was a Levite.

If you talk to European Jews today, they are divided into two tribes: Judah and Levi.

We call the others, "the Lost Tribes of Israel". Whole books have been written on the subject of the Lost Tribes.

Mormons believe that they came to American by magic and became the Indians! :mmhmm:

So this is how Jews would look at the issue of them being the Chosen People.

Q: Are Jews the Chosen People?

A: Yes.

Q: But at the time God called the Chosen People, there were no Jews!

A: True. But the people called "Jews" today are all that remain of the religion of Israel. The Samaritans, the Christians, the Muslims do not follow Israel's true religion.

So, they are not among the chosen.

Yep totally understood. That's why I'm saying it came around the time of David and Solomon.
Moses is not of the Judas descendants in the first place :p that's why it wouldn't make sense to say that he was a "jew"! :p
interesting bits here and there we learnt in today's lesson!


The name Judaism would have evolved after the diaspora when all that were left were the Judaens and the Levites. The largest tribe has always been Judah.

:D The State of Israel does not exist-how do they are pro-clam God's Chosen People?!!:D:D:D

^^what has the modern state of Israel got to do with this?

^ Simple the God’s chosen people would not fight for the land not belong to them! How comes the fight for the land not belong to them??!!:):D:D:D

Well they think it does belong to them.

Oh yes I read that, but what I meant was that why the RELIGION was named 'Judaism', and not anything else. Since it didn't have a name before.

Or was that question also answered but I didn't understand? :think:

Ok, I've annoyed you two enough ... for today :p

Good night. :)

I don't think the religion itself ever had an "official name". And still today it doesn't.

It was "the worship of the people of Israel" or "the worship of Yahweh, the God of Israel", generally.

But after the people of Israel split, it was "the worship of the people of the Kingdom of Judah and their descendants, the Jews" or "Judaism". But this is just a name of convenience, showing that the religion is connected to THESE PEOPLE.

Does that make sense?

Most religions don't have an "official name". Christians were called that by outsiders in the early days and the name stuck.

But for us Catholics, there is no official name of "the religion" as such. There is an official name of the Church: "The Holy Catholic Church". But "catholic" is just a word meaning "universal". So it's just The Holy Universal Church, that's all.

In Catholic documents, the usual term for Catholic believers is Christifideles, which just means, "the faithful of Christ".

Are Jews the Chosen People of God?
No, Atheists are the chosen people.
Next thread. :hyper:

At last! I understood, thanks a lot Jeff and Braiki! :) Makes a lot of sense.



I remember this verse from the Quran:

[2:47] O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures

But how did God choose them? On what basis? Because God chose the Children of Israel and preferred them to all his creatures, but he then warns them:

[2:48] Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for it, nor shall compensation be taken from it, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

Which shows that simply being from the Chosen People does not mean they shouldn't watch for their acts and forget about the Day of Judgement. 'Choosing, Favouring, Preferring' them was a favour from God, not something that was earned.


To make the question clearer, I will share a verse in the Quran talking about Muslims:

[3:110] You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed itwould have been better for them; of them (some) are believersand most of them are transgressors.

So we have a criteria, if those aren't met, then we're not part of the 'best of nations'.

^^

Interesting way of looking at it.

And I think if you read what the great rabbis and sages of Judaism say, it is similar.

^ I would really like to. Google time!

The Jews In Palestine


By Mahatma Gandhi


Published in the Harijan
26-11-1938.

Several letters have been received by me, asking me to declare my views about the Arab-Jew question in Palestine and the persecution of the Jews in Germany. It is not without hesitation that I venture to offer my views on this very difficult question.

My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South Africa. Some of them became lifelong companions. Through these friends I came to learn much of their age long persecution. They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by
Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close.

Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification of the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships, therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for the Jews. But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice.

The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine.


Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood? Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their
national home. The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French.

If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled?
Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colorable justification for the German expulsion of
the Jews. But the German persecution of the Jews seems to have no parallel in history. The tyrants of old never went so mad as Hitler seems to have gone. And he is doing it with religious zeal. For, he is propounding a new religion of exclusive and militant nationalism in the name of which any
inhumanity becomes an act of humanity to be rewarded here and hereafter.

The crime of an obviously mad but intrepid youth is being visited upon his wholerace with unbelievable ferocity. If there ever could be a justifiable war in the name of and for humanity, a war against Germany to prevent the wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completely justified. But I do not believe in any war. A discussion of the pros and cons of such a war is, therefore, outside my horizon or province.

But if there can be no war against Germany, even for such a crime as is being committed against the Jews, surely there can be no alliance with Germany. How can there be alliance between a nation, which claims to stand for justice and democracy and one, which is the declared enemy of both? Or
is England drifting towards armed dictatorship and all it means?

Germany is showing to the world how efficiently violence can be worked when it is not hampered by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as humanitarianism.It is also showing how hideous, terrible and terrifying it looks in its wakedness.Can the Jews resist this organized and shameless persecution? Is there a way to preserve their self-respect, and not to feel helpless, neglected and forlorn? I submit there is. No person who has faith in a living God need feel helpless or forlorn. Jehovah of the Jews is a God more personal than the God of the Christians, the Mussalmans or the Hindus, though as a matter of fact, in essence, He is common to all and one without a second and beyond description. But as the Jews attribute personality to God and believe that He rules every action of theirs, they ought not to feel helpless.

If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German might, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment. And for doing this I
should not wait for! the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance, but would have confidence that in the end the rest were bound to follow my example.... ...

And now a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they are going about it in the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart.

The same God rules the Arab heart who rules the Jewish heart... They will find the world opinion in their favor in their religious aspiration. There are hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs, if they will only discard the help of the British bayonet. As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong,
nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of
overwhelming odds.

Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home, including Palestine, not by aggression but by loving service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution
to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done to enrich the world's literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine, agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as the outcast of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the attention and respect of the world by being the chosen creation of God,
instead of sinking to the brute who is forsaken by God. They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action.

http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-gandhi170903.htm
=================

Even Gandhi believes that Palestine belongs to the Arabs.

^ I would really like to. Google time!

Everybody criticizes Wikipedia, but it's usually the best place to start. If you read this article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people

and look at these subheadings in particular:

Rabbinic Jewish views of chosenness

Chosenness is not superiority

you can get a good general idea.

From Amos 3:2 "You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will visit upon you all your iniquities."

Kind of the same thing that you are saying.

But the idea of being Chosen was to be a light upon the nations, that is to make the other nations become aware about the one God.

Even Gandhi believes that Palestine belongs to the Arabs.

It doesn't say that! :p

It doesn't say that! :p
How about this?

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct.

But the idea of being Chosen was to be a light upon the nations, that is to make the other nations become aware about the one God.

I think I understand that. The Wikipedia link Jeff shared has a title "Chosenness is not superiority", so it is not about superiority (although being chosen to spread the message is something special), but about the responsibility to spread the words of God.

... I think? :think:

How about this?

Well, you know I agree with him 100%.

But the difference is this:

"Gandhi says Palestine belongs to the Arabs."

"Gandhi said Palestine belonged to the Arabs."

"Gandhi would say today Palestine belongs to the Arabs."

Those are three very different things.