Are Christians the only people who believe in the incarnation (God became man)?

I am not aware of any other group of people who claim that, not even the Jews I suppose :os!

If I'm not mistaken the Mormons (another branch of Chistians) believe in different God incarnate. Maybe Jeff can explain more.

Also Hindu believe that someone called "Rama" is God incarnated. Not sure about this though.

BIG FAT SIGH here do some of you read:

Jeff discussed it though cannot recall where. The Mormons believe that God came from another planet and that the founder of the religion was also a prophet. Christians don't believe that. They believe God did not come from another planet or that this man was a prophet after Jesus.

The answer to the question, "Are Mormons Christians," is simple. They are not Christians for several reasons, and their unbiblical doctrines show them to be a "Christian" cult.

The name Christian was first used, as Acts 11:26 records, to identify the disciples of Jesus Christ. The word "Christian" is the Greek word "christianos," and it means an adherent of Jesus Christ. It literally means "Christ ones" (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16). The correct definition of the word is one who is a follower of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. For almost two thousand years it has never had a reference to anyone other that the historical Jesus Christ of the New Testament.


First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a different Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians.

The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they, too, shall one day become gods. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression."

Brigham Young, said, "When the Virgin Mary conceived the Child Jesus ... He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is His father? He is the first of the human family" (Journal of Discourses, pages 50-51).

Take your time.......in essence Mormons are not Christians but a CULT. They believe GOD is from another PLANET. They do not believe in the biblical historical Jesus as Christians do.

marinanna, do Mormons have their own version of the Bible?

PS: you need to provide the source of above information.

They do have their own version and different books.

http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mormons_christian.htm

Roman Catholic view on Mormonism:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0036mq

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9909fea4.asp

We don't, in fact, deny that many Mormons try to love and serve the Lord Jesus. Active members do genuinely try to make him and his will a center in their daily lives. But as with many other Mormon beliefs, the teachings on Christ are a maze of misunderstanding, misdefinition, and misapplication. Mormon scriptures are contradictory, and Mormon prophets deny, redefine, or ignore one another's teachings.

Ice Tea I think a Christian can very well tell that Mormons are not true Christians but a cult following and if Jeff's explaination or the explainations provided on how Mormons think God came from another planet or that men can do good works here and become Gods later doesn't say something then you really need to talk to a priest and he can give you the full speel. Peace.

But as with many other Mormon beliefs, the teachings on Christ are a maze of misunderstanding, misdefinition, and misapplication. Mormon scriptures are contradictory, and Mormon prophets deny, redefine, or ignore one another's teachings.



They might say the same thing about your beliefs.

Because maybe they will claim their version of the Bible is true one.

They can but I don't understand the concept of an Alien God or how men can become Gods. That makes no sense to me. They can believe what they want. I won't go to war with them over it or kill them, or do anything to harm them. I am not that kind of person. What I CAN say is I would not marry one if they wanted me to convert or if they practiced it.

So the vatican popes don't approve mormons as christians ?

What I know is that Jesus never claim divinity in the Bible or said to his followers worship me, correct me if I'm worng.

Ice tea, are Bahais muslims?
I think we should leave christians decide who are considered christans and who shouldnt. They know the basis of thier religion.

If we must sit with them at a table for this famous interfaith dialogue as it seems, then is about time they first clear between themselves their differences on theology

I know my own theology as a Catholic and The Vatican does not recognize Mormons. I have always known this but here is some layman info:

The Roman Catholic Church declared Thursday that Mormon converts must be rebaptized, a setback to the Mormon Church's effort to characterize itself as a Christian denomination.

The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith declared that baptisms in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are "not the baptism that Christ instituted."

In the mainstreaming of themselves, they've talked about themselves as Christians. They have emphasized Christianity in their internal materials. They've got their own people calling themselves Christians as opposed to calling themselves Mormons," she said.

Dan Wotherspoon, editor of Sunstone Magazine, an independent journal of Mormon life and issues published in Salt Lake City, said, "Clearly, the LDS church still has their work cut out for them in this effort to be known as a Christian church."

In Salt Lake City, Latter-day Saints spokesmen sought to minimize the importance of the Catholic decision, or its possible effect on efforts by the church to present itself as a Christian church.

"We are neither concerned nor offended that the Catholic Church has determined not to recognize Latter-day Saint baptisms," church spokesman Michael Otterson said Thursday. He noted that converts to the Mormon faith must be rebaptized.

In Rome, the Vatican congregation indicated that radically different theological views of God and Jesus Christ necessitated the rebaptism of Mormon converts.

The congregation said that the Catholic Church could not accept Mormon belief that "God the father had a wife, the Celestial Mother, with whom he procreated Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit."

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news1/an010723-05.html

Yes, Ice Tea, Jesus claimed Divinity in the Bible. But not by saying "I am God; you better believe it!"

That wasn't Jesus' style or His Way of dealing with human beings. Jesus' never tries to force people's minds, but rather to draw them to the Truth. And He hardly ever makes open declaration of His Mission. He charges the Apostles to "Tell no one that He is the Messiah" Matthew 16: 20.

It's POSSIBLE to explain Jesus' sayings about His Oneness with the Father in some other way than a claim to Divinity, but those are very unconvincing to me. Jesus says that no one knows the Father but the Son. Jesus says that He has seen the Father. When Philip asks to see the Father, Jesus complains that Philip has been with Him so long, but He understand Who He Is (you see...He expects us to grasp Who He is without being told...) . Anyone Who sees Him has seen the Father because He and the Father are One.

Jesus claims the right to change divine law on His own authority. Jesus claims the right to forgive sins. Jesus calls Himself the Good Shepherd, a title reserved for God in the Old Testament. Jesus shows Who He is by simply commanding creation with the voice of Authority: He doesn't pray to God to get a storm to stop and the waters to calm. He simply says: "BE STILL!"

And the disciples who are with Him, like good Jews, get the picture: "Who is this Who can command the sky and the seas?" Well: Who CAN command the sky and the seas?

Let me ask you something, Ice Tea. A prophet gets messages from God and he conveys them. He says, "God told me this and this and this". In the Quran, the Angel Gabriel comes to Mohammed and says, "Recite! And then gives him messages." God delivers stone tablets with the Law inscribed to Moses and Moses tells us so. The prophets in the Bible are constantly saying things like, "The Word of the Lord came to me and said, "Prophesy!""

Now: Is this the way of Jesus' teaching in the Bible? Any messages from God to Him that are to be delivered? Jesus simply teaches with His Own Authority.

This is one very important clue to His identity and nature. It shows that there is something very different indeed about Him.

The more you read the Bible, the clearer it becomes. So I ask you: Have you read it directly? Or do you just watch tapes of Dr. Naik? It's fine to seek guidance in these things from Muslims, but you should go to the source yourself sometimes.

I read the Quran. Try reading the Bible for yourself with an open mind and heart. And see what you find! :)

Jesus reveals Who He is in the Bible pretty clearly. But He leaves you space to argue and reject Him if you please.

So why doesn't Jesus just PROVE Who He is, if He is God? Why didn't He go around constantly claiming it?

Well, St. Jude asks Him that in the Bible. On the last night of Jesus life, when they are at supper, St. Jude asks him, "Lord, why is it that you manifest yourself to us but not to the world?"

""Manifest' is a very deep word and in English as in the original Greek, it carries the meaning of "show your nature; show your real self; come clear and come out from hiding".

And Jesus answer is typical in its mysterious brilliance and strangeness:

"If a man loves me, he will do what I say. And my Father and I will come to Him and make our homes with Him."

Who is this strange figure Who comes to you along with God and makes His home with you, if only you will love Him?

John 14: 22-23.


وَفِي الْأَرْضِ آيَاتٌ لِّلْمُوقِنِينَ

On earth there are signs for those of assured Faith,

وَفِي أَنفُسِكُمْ أَفَلَا تُبْصِرُونَ

As also in your own selves: Will ye not then see?

Sura 51: 20-21.

Ice tea, are Bahais muslims?
I think we should leave christians decide who are considered christans and who shouldnt. They know the basis of thier religion.

Ah, beautiful Princess!

You know, it's something to try at least sometimes, Ice Tea, to learn and not just to teach.

To have patience simply to sit and learn from one another.

We don't always have to argue.

Even if someone is misunderstanding something, you do better if you get inside their minds and understand deeply what is the basis for it.

Yes, Ice Tea, Jesus claimed Divinity in the Bible. But not by saying "I am God; you better believe it!"

If Jesus didn't say "I'm God" or didn't say "worship me" then it means he didn't claim Divinity, in the Quran Allah in many places said "I'm your Lord" and said "worship me".

No need to say 'you better believe me', if Jesus is really God he would have made it clear not just for his people at that time but for others who will come later.



Jesus claims the right to change divine law on His own authority. Jesus claims the right to forgive sins. Jesus calls Himself the Good Shepherd, a title reserved for God in the Old Testament. Jesus shows Who He is by simply commanding creation with the voice of Authority: He doesn't pray to God to get a storm to stop and the waters to calm. He simply says: "BE STILL!"

Jesus said in the Bible "on my own I can do NOTHING", imagine God can't do nothing on his own. What you have listed above clearly contradicts with this quote.

If Jesus didn't say "I'm God" or didn't say "worship me" then it means he didn't claim Divinity, in the Quran Allah in many places said "I'm your Lord" and said "worship me".

No need to say 'you better believe me', if Jesus is really God he would have made it clear not just for his people at that time but for others who will come later.




Jesus said in the Bible "on my own I can do NOTHING", imagine God can't do nothing on his own. What you have listed above clearly contradicts with this quote.

Well, but that's just the point, Ice Tea. It IS clear from the examples I gave you Who He is. But as He says, He doesn't manifest Himself except to those with open hearts. We Who love Him know Who He is. He doesn't manifest Himself to the world, as He said.

He didn't come in Glory, He says, the first time. But when He comes again, there will be no room for doubt and no room for denial. "Every knee shall bow, every tongue proclaim that Jesus Christ is LORD."

Jesus is God the Son and God the Son is God's Word. He is God from God and He has His Source in the Father. Even as God, but especially as a human being, He "does nothing on His Own."

He both does it and it is done for Him by the Father. Which is why it is true to say God raised Him from the dead. But Jesus also says, "I have the power to lay down My Life and the power to TAKE IT UP AGAIN." He has power over His Own death.

Jesus DOESN'T speak openly of Himself. He says that is part of our judgment. He speaks in parables, so that those who wish to understand will understand and those who wish to resist will be able to resist. "So that seeing they will not see and hearing they will not hear."

He wants to draw an understanding of Who He is out of our own hearts. So even when He finally lets the disciples know He is the Messiah, He doesn't proclaim it. He ASKS the Apostles, "Who do men say I am?" And then He asks Peter, "Who do YOU say I am?"

And Peter gives the right answer, not because Jesus tells him, but because Jesus' Father reveals it in Peter's heart, which is open to it.

"If Jesus didn't say "I'm God" or didn't say "worship me" then it means he didn't claim Divinity"

I don't recall the angel Jibreel (Aleihy al Salam) ever telling the prophet, 'I am Jibreel, the angel of Allah' the first time he (Jibreel) met the prophet PBUH. Does that mean Jibreel is not an angel? No...It means the prophet PBUH was faithful enough to understand that. And even if I'm too bad at recalling that (and in that case, I apologize sincerely) I sort of get where the Christian doctrine is getting the idea of Jesus being God. I would need an affirmation, however, that Jesus and the Father are NOT one if I'm to believe He is not God or I'll need a truer version of the Word of God. Since I only have the latter, I am bound to believe he (Jesus PBUH) was never God...

Yes, faithful enough to understand. I like how you put things in perspective. Shows me you tolerate Christians and try to look at us like human beings. Though we do have different belief systems Thread you are quite respectful to us in many regards. Christians and Muslims are bound in their beliefs for a reason and as I told Ice...each of us is dutybound to defend our faiths and yes, we all have a kind of ministry to proclaim what we believe in. Just respecting each other for who we are is the basis of what I think being a good Muslim or Christian should be...at least that is my own view.

"Just respecting each other for who we are is the basis of what I think being a good Muslim or Christian should be...at least that is my own view."

I second that and fully agree with it. Religions mostly tend to make us better human beings all in all :)

"If Jesus didn't say "I'm God" or didn't say "worship me" then it means he didn't claim Divinity"

I don't recall the angel Jibreel (Aleihy al Salam) ever telling the prophet, 'I am Jibreel, the angel of Allah' the first time he (Jibreel) met the prophet PBUH. Does that mean Jibreel is not an angel? No...It means the prophet PBUH was faithful enough to understand that. And even if I'm too bad at recalling that (and in that case, I apologize sincerely) I sort of get where the Christian doctrine is getting the idea of Jesus being God. I would need an affirmation, however, that Jesus and the Father are NOT one if I'm to believe He is not God or I'll need a truer version of the Word of God. Since I only have the latter, I am bound to believe he (Jesus PBUH) was never God...

Sorry but the comparison is not valid cos Allah told our prophet :PBUH: who Jibreel is so our prophet PBUH already knows who he is.

You're assuming that Allah spoke to the prophet PBUH directly and TOLD him, 'I will send an angel to you to deliver my Final Message' BEFORE Jibreel came to the prophet PBUH.
That did not happen.

The acceptance of the first verse of the Qura'n was something the prophet PBUH himself did not expect or know about. As far as my knowledge extends, the prophet PBUH did not come to know what it was that he had met at the Cave of Hira'a until he met with Waraqa bin Nawfal who then told him that this was of the same nature as what happened to Moses PBUH.

Well, but that's just the point, Ice Tea. It IS clear from the examples I gave you Who He is. But as He says, He doesn't manifest Himself except to those with open hearts. We Who love Him know Who He is. He doesn't manifest Himself to the world, as He said.

That means your God is the God of a specific people and not the God of the worlds.


Jesus is God the Son and God the Son is God's Word. He is God from God and He has His Source in the Father. Even as God, but especially as a human being, He "does nothing on His Own."

He both does it and it is done for Him by the Father. Which is why it is true to say God raised Him from the dead.


If he is God then he should be able to do things on his own, but he can't as stated by that quote, that only proves Jesus is a human being and all the miracles he did done by Allah will. Otherwsie this will be contradicting with the Trinity which says all three are one.

And God doesn't die Jeff.

Judaism rejects this belief as a form of idolatry, contradicting the statement in the Ten Commandments that G-d has no form.

That is good but at the same time Judaism rejects Jesus as a true prophet and tried to kill him because they thought he claimed Divinity, so you went to one extreme and Christians to another extreme as far as Jesus pbuh is concerned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation

Huh? We rejected Jesus, as we did many others, because they were impostors and false messiahs.

That is good but at the same time Judaism rejects Jesus as a true prophet and tried to kill him because they thought he claimed Divinity, so you went to one extreme and Christians to another extreme as far as Jesus pbuh is concerned.

Well, the Jews understood him better than some others! :p

After all, they were around and heard what He said and saw what He did.

Somehow His followers had the same impression, too!

Funny how things can work that way sometimes...

Huh? We rejected Jesus, as we did many others, because they were impostors and false messiahs.

Many accepted him. Some say the majority.

And many still accept him today, God bless them!

http://www.salvationisfromthejews.com/morehoney.html

"Honey from the Rock: Sixteen Jews Find the Sweetness of Christ"

by the wonderful Roy Schoemann.

But not the stern Monotheism...

...God bless him, too. :)

Huh? We rejected Jesus, as we did many others, because they were impostors and false messiahs.

Do you consider Jesus a false messiah becuase he was born without male intervention?

Well, the Jews understood him better than some others! :p

After all, they were around and heard what He said and saw what He did.

Somehow His followers had the same impression, too!

Funny how things can work that way sometimes...

Yes there are some who believed in him:

Then when 'Isâ (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allâh's Cause?" Al-Hawâriûn (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allâh; we believe in Allâh, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allâh)."

And God also around, he knows the truth and what happened, which is all stated in the holy Quran.

Anyway, which is better in your opinion that Jesus is considered a false prophet or a true prophet, or both the same?

Do you consider Jesus a false messiah becuase he was born without male intervention?

That would assume that Jews believe Jesus' birth was a miracle.

That means the only choice you have that Mary had committed adultery, Is that what Jews believe?