I came across this word today ---> Limbo.

What exactly is Limbo? Is it the state that Jeff explained in an earlier thread where the soul is stuck and it can be released by good deeds? (If I remember correctly that is ... )

And why has the Vatican recently declared that it does not exist anymore after claiming it does for so long?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo

Limbo is not Purgatory. Purgatory is a transitional state between earthly life and heaven which in which souls who die in God's friendship, but insufficiently purified, are prepared for God's presence. The Church teaches the doctrine of Purgatory authoritatively, with anathema attached.

Limbo is a theological opinion. It has never been taught authoritatively. And the Church, despite what newspapers said a while ago, didn't say ANYTHING about Limbo recently. There was only a group of scholars that published their findings and presented them to the Pope.

One of the findings was that it was quite possible for a Catholic to believe in something other than Limbo as the end of unbaptized children. But that wasn't really news. And it isn't authoritative, since it wasn't the Church saying it, just some scholars presenting their findings to the Pope, not the Pope teaching something.

What is Limbo? Limbo is a state of perfect natural happiness. You could call it "paradise", if you like.

How does it differ from Heaven, then? Heaven is complete union with God Himself, a state of supernatural happiness, in which the soul sees God face to face.

No human being merits Heaven.

The ordinary way to begin the life of supernatural grace in Christ is through baptism. But Limbo was theorized as a solution to the question, What happens if a baby dies without baptism?

Does the baby go to Hell, since we all have original sin from conception?

No, the theologians speculated. Babies have not committed personal sin. Without personal sin, no one will be punished in Hell. But without baptism, they do not enjoy the life of supernatural happiness. Since they are innocent of all personal guilt, God must have prepared a state of perfect natural happiness for them.

So, there is no authoritative Catholic teaching on this question one way or the other. Of late, many Catholics have simply come to believe that they can trust in God's mercy and goodness to find a way to bring unbaptized children to Him in Heaven as well. But we are free to believe pretty much what we want on this topic, or just to say that we do not know.

The advisory document presented to the Pope by the scholars did not forbid--of course it COULDN'T forbid--belief in Limbo. In fact, it said

"[Limbo] remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis"

Popes can teach infallibly. But they don't do it by going into a room and getting an angel to reveal something to them. When a Pope teaches that something is infallible, he does it because he sees that this has been the constant and and unvarying teaching of the Church and that disputing it means disputing the whole Catholic Faith.

And they discover such a thing partly by asking for advice. They ask bishops and priests and theologians, "What has the Church said about this? What is the consensus? Is it binding? Or are people free to disagree?"

And Popes consult with others with the Church on important topics even when they are not going to make an infallible declaration.

This is what the commission which delivered the document was for. Pope John Paul asked for ADVICE. He called together a commission to study what the sense of the Catholic faithful was on this question of the Salvation of Unbaptized Infants today.

And basically, they told him: "Some years ago, the dominant opinion was Limbo. Now, many more people believe that Heaven is a possibility for them. But Limbo is still allowed. But the fact that we are not sure is a very good reason for being particularly careful to continue baptizing our children."

And the Pope said (it was Benedict...John Paul had died while the commission was still working), "Thanks for the interesting advice. You can now publish your findings."

So no human being sees God face to face?
That's...kind of depessing :(
Are there any reasons for that in the Bible or from Tradition and teachings of the Church?

Well the Bible says Moses saw God face to face but he was alive at the time.

But that was an interesting read, thanks Jeff.

So no human being sees God face to face?
That's...kind of depessing :(
Are there any reasons for that in the Bible or from Tradition and teachings of the Church?
who said nobody sees the face of God when they join him in the afterlife? i must have missed that. can you please point out to me which post says so.. thanks.

So no human being sees God face to face?
That's...kind of depessing :(
Are there any reasons for that in the Bible or from Tradition and teachings of the Church?

Well the Bible says Moses saw God face to face but he was alive at the time.

But that was an interesting read, thanks Jeff.

Well, here is the Catholic teaching on the matter...

No, we CAN see God face to face, but only through supernatural Grace and only after death.

By NATURE we cannot.

HOW we can do so in heaven is a mystery...

Exodus 33 has Moses asking to see God's Glory. God refuses and says that He will let Moses's see His "back parts" (whatever that means). But God tells Moses, "You cannot see my face: for there is no man who can see me and live."

There are a few other Old Testment texts that speak of GOD talking to MOSES "face to face", but the mode of perception of Moses is not specified. Our understanding is that this refers to the intimacy of the conversation, rather than Moses' perception.

All this means is that we perceive with the material eye and other material senses and the material eye cannot take in the Infinite Nature of God directly.

In John's Gospel, in the first chapter, verse 18, it says,

"No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father's side, has revealed him."

And Jesus says in the same Gospel:

" Not that anyone has seen the Father except the One Who is from God; he has seen the Father."

John 6: 46.

BUT...

"At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know in the way that I am known."

1 Corinthians 13: 12.

We will see God in Heaven AS HE IS. AS HE SEES HIMSELF.

Catholics call this "the Beatific Vision":

[I]Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man's immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory "the beatific vision"

Catholic Catechism, PART ONE, Section Two, Chapter Three, Article 12, Paragraph 1028.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm

If the theory of Limbo were true, THIS would be what the souls of the children would lack: the Beatific Vision.

But they could still see God indirectly, as we do on earth. In fact, they would experience Him far more intimately that we do on earth. But they would not be taken up into the heights of perfect communion with Him.

They would have a perfect natural happiness, far surpassing anything on earth.

Thanks Jeff :)

So does Limbo only exists for unbaptized babies, since they are born with original sin, while with an unbaptized adult they would have personal sin and won't be in "Limbo" when they pass away?

Also, not sure if this was answered before, but when does an individual start "gaining" personal sin?

Thanks Jeff :)

So does Limbo only exists for unbaptized babies, since they are born with original sin, while with an unbaptized adult they would have personal sin and won't be in "Limbo" when they pass away?

Also, not sure if this was answered before, but when does an individual start "gaining" personal sin?
personal sin is gained when you start being naughty and doing bad things.