Failed to convert...

[squinty]

I have a friend who was trying to be Muslim.
She did all she can to learn about Islam and all that but because of how Muslims are and how they all treated each other she started having doubts.
And ended up going back to her original religion.

How can we make everyone know that Islam is good but not bad?
I know because of what they see and hear they can't believe us... But how can we make them know that Islam is not violent and bad?

[minerva]

i don't think you should worry too much, as long as this person lives her life as a good person, she can be muslim, christian, jewish, hindu, buddhist or whatever.
if you want to give out a message that Islam is good, start from yourself. there is nothing better than giving a good example of a good person as a muslim by being a good friend to this person.

[wudjab]

Keep your friend away from the Sabla.

If he/she reads some of the posts here....

[squinty]

i don't think you should worry too much, as long as this person lives her life as a good person, she can be muslim, christian, jewish, hindu, buddhist or whatever.
if you want to give out a message that Islam is good, start from yourself. there is nothing better than giving a good example of a good person as a muslim by being a good friend to this person.

I did. The problem is she can't believe it from what she sees.
She told me that she can't believe that Muslims are killing each other!
She even told me that "Isn't Islam a peaceful religion? Then why kill each other?!"

How should I respond to that?
I really started having doubts about Islam myself...
I just believe in God...
I don't care about the Muslims I see...

[Pygmalion]

Yes, no one will care to read about a religion if the adherents are not good enough to stimulate the interest…

Jeffrey Lang a Math professor at the University of Kansas who is a convert, said once I am glad that I converted to Islam before visiting Saudi Arabia.

If I weren’t Muslim, I would never care to be so if I were living in some Muslim societies (without mentioning names.)

If you fail the ethical aspects (which all religions share), you will never be able to lead people to the core of your belief that makes it different than other religions.

[Endure Whisper]

I don't think you can drag someone to be Muslim unless they were intersted themselves to begin with. When they show interest that's when you should advertise Islam and help them revert (I believe in "revert" and not "convert") and put an effort in making them understand and apply Islam. Force or constant stubborness from your side to make them get into Islam won't do good.. so don't worry about it, if your friend is interested, I am sure she'll come to you because you've already showed care.

[squinty]

She WAS interested... Now shes not...
As I said, what I told her didn't match what she was seeing or hearing so she couldn't believe...

[Sarz]

Maybe trying tell her not to see what the people are doing, but what message Islam itself teaches and how she understand it to be.

I find it shocking how people interpert relegion myself, what would an outsider think?

[squinty]

She said she believes in God that Muslims believe in but not the religion itself because of what is happening among them.
And she even said something so small like she even used to give "salam" (hi) to the Muslims but they would just stare at her and walk away!

From the simplest things to the biggest things!
I am sorry to say this but if this is how Muslims are.. there will be no future for Islam if they all start going down that path...

[jack]

It happens ...


According to unofficial sources, in the past five years, one million Iranians, particularly young people and women, have abandoned Islam and joined Evangelical churches.

...

"We find ourselves facing what is more than a conversion to the Christian faith," he said. "It's a mass exodus from Islam (http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1988866222)."

whatchgonado ... :hyper:

Maybe she didn't like the idea of being put to death for apostasy.

[marianna]

Religion is a personal choice. It is good to see she was curious but if she decides in the end Islam is not for her or whatever other religion she explores in the end is her choice and not up to us. We can always show her by our own examples of living. I don't always agree with my Catholic teachings but I don't leave it. I hope things work out for your friend, whatever path she does decide to follow.

[wudjab]

Jack, don't you dare say that !

We are supposed to blindly swallow the (unverified) claim that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

[Thalia]

If I were this girl, just the fact that I couldn't get out if I realised later that it's not for me would be enough to put me off.

There is not such thing as freedom of religion when it comes to Islam, unfortunately.

[squinty]

I know...
But I told her what Islam is and helped her through it and taught her what I can.

And after all this, I told her to follow her heart and God! :)
I have no power over this after all.

[wudjab]

You're a good guy Squinty.

[Thalia]

I know...
But I told her what Islam is and helped her through it and taught her what I can.

And after all this, I told her to follow her heart and God! :)
I have no power over this after all.
It's good that you realise that you don't. The more people push someone towards something, the liklier they are to resist.

[squinty]

I never pushed her! :)
She told me she was interested in Islam and she was happy she met me and asked a lot of questions about Islam!
I was happy to know there is someone who WANTS to convert to Islam.
I knew this day would come anyway... Because I know what kind of Muslims are out there these days...

[Threadlike]

squinty, the situation reminded me of such an amazing verse of the Holy Qura'n. It, in essence, says, 'You (Mohammed) shall not guide those who you love but only Allah shall guide who He wishes'. There's a matter of God's will involved here...But, at the bottom of my heart, I believe that anyone who lives with GOOD and RELIGIOUS Muslims for a few weeks will find it hard NOT to convert. That's the good news. The bad news is that GOOD and RELIGIOUS Muslims have been (for quite a long time) a small bunch from the 1.5 billion around the planet. But I think it's not just about 'showing' how much you love your religion to her but to simply embrace your religion, and let that feeling of Godly blessing go through you all the time...It's that which makes you a walking-talking Islamic Da'wa Machine in my opinion :D

[squinty]

For the people who know me I have been a good Muslim all, hope most if not all, my life and have put religion into my life as if I am a person who lives for his religion.
I mean I have read and learned about Islam since I was young. True, I have doubts and a lot of questions to ask but I know it will not be answered because of how each sector is fighting and saying they are the RIGHT and chosen ones or whatever.
Because of that I really can't tell at times if what I am doing is right and wrong..
And in the end I just tell myself I will believe in God and I do this for God.

But don't you ever think who is right at times?
Why are we fighting anyway?
I can't see the peace in this...
I hope I don't think a lot about all this...

[El Rey]

What do you mean by fighting each other ? Who is fighting who ? And there are always some bad examples of the religion squingty. As there are bad muslims and christians there are also some good people embracing these religions. I myself follow the Ibathi sect, but I don't say this sect is wrong or my sect is right. I just follow what my heart tells me and the most important thing to me that I believe in God and his prophet :PBUH: and try my best to do what They tell us to do and avoid what they ask us to avoid. Other things are for scholars to agree or disagree with. And if you want my advice to the girl: Ask her not to convert to Islam unless she's 100% sure about it and after knowing everything about it. She can read some books about Islam and let her follow what her heart tells her. And something else, she should lessen from the jewish media when it comes to talking about Muslims. :)

[squinty]

El Rey... You tell me.
If you were not Muslim and wanted to be one.
And heard ALL the great stories about Islam and all that but when you see REALITY and how Muslims are fighting each other what would you believe?
What CAN you believe?

This is my answer to you.

[nezitiC]

"To make them walk in the right way is not incumbent on you, but Allah guides aright whom He pleases; and whatever good thing you spend, it is to your own good; and you do not spend but to seek Allah's pleasure; and whatever good things you spend shall be paid back to you in full, and you shall not be wronged".
[1-272].
لَّيْسَ عَلَيْكَ هُدَاهُمْ وَلَكِنَّ اللّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاءُ وَمَا تُنفِقُواْ مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَلِأَنفُسِكُمْ وَمَا تُنفِقُونَ إِلاَّ ابْتِغَاءَ وَجْهِ اللّهِ وَمَا تُنفِقُواْ مِنْ خَيْرٍ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تُظْلَمُونَ
And May Allah guide you too.

+Salam

[El Rey]

El Rey... You tell me.
If you were not Muslim and wanted to be one.
And heard ALL the great stories about Islam and all that but when you see REALITY and how Muslims are fighting each other what would you believe?
What CAN you believe?

This is my answer to you.

When I'm interested in something, I search and study about that thing not the people who believe in it. I analyse what that thing is calling and asking for.

[squinty]

When I believe in something, I search and study about that thing not the people who believe in it. I analyse what that thing is calling and asking for.

You can say this because you were born Muslim!:rolleyes:
Believe me, it is different when you want to learn about something that you were not born to learn it.

This is like studying, if you know nothing about it but interested in it then you will go for it but if you find what is in the books different from what people say you will leave it since you were interested in what you heard and not what you studied.
(Hope that explains what I want to say...)

[wudjab]

There's a saying in the English Language that goes thusly :

An apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[El Rey]

You can say this because you were born Muslim!:rolleyes:
Believe me, it is different when you want to learn about something that you were not born to learn it.

This is like studying, if you know nothing about it but interested in it then you will go for it but if you find what is in the books different from what people say you will leave it since you were interested in what you heard and not what you studied.
(Hope that explains what I want to say...)

So what's your point ? Do you want us to say that All Muslims are horrible and representing Islam in a negative way ? All of them ? And how do you explain thousads of non muslims converting to Islam at the same time muslims are given a bad reputaion ? Simply, because these people knew Islam as a religion and didn't make judgments to it according to some muslims. And again, don't press on the girl to convert if she has doubts about it coz this will not help her holding on it later. She just go for it when she thinks she should go for it, that's all.

[sophis^catrina]

Squinty, Islam is the fastest growing religion (according to accounts in the popular press and within the academia realm as well), even though Islam probably has the worst awareness and there is so much Islamophobia, people are still drawn to it. The beauty of Islam is its spirituality. I think if you help her focus on its spirituality, the prayers, the beliefs we have of God, that is what's best. Because it is our relationship with God, that guides us to what is true and beautiful. Anyway, as El Rey said, not everyone is a crazy Muslim, there are plenty of Muslims who are rational and good.

[mimosa]

not everyone is a crazy Muslim, there are plenty of Muslims who are rational and good.

Thank goodness you're here Sophis, more rational and good ones like you would help with PR.

Not me though. Feck it, I'm off to firebomb the Dog & Duck :hmm:

[Jeff]

I really liked Threadlike's comment.

The thing that's so easy to forget, no matter whether one is Christian or Muslim, is that it is God doing the work and not a human contest.

Once you realize that, you can still understand the seriousness of it all, but you don't have to worry the way you would if it were a personal matter.

God works in His own ways in His own good time. And if we simply allow Him to do so, without putting our own egos in the way, much more is achieved, even if we don't always see it in the end.

[amo_l_oman]

I never pushed her! :)
She told me she was interested in Islam and she was happy she met me and asked a lot of questions about Islam!
I was happy to know there is someone who WANTS to convert to Islam.
I knew this day would come anyway... Because I know what kind of Muslims are out there these days...
I dnt think your friend is near to convertion, she might be interested though
Just guide her to the basics and clear her doubts if you can
If you dnt have knowledge on some issues, just leave it to a more learned person
As you put it, this seems to have taken place in UK
Those few times [included my shahadah] I've been in Lndn main Mosque, I've met people who dnt reply to your salams if you are not Muslim and men who do not look into your eyes if they must speak to a woman by necessity
On the other hand, I've met very few like these here in Gulf
The Salafi interpretation of the Quran and the Sunna is very dangerous cause, although the intention is exactly that to strictly adhere to Islamic teachings, in most cases it takes very far from them, closer to disbelief, I'd dare to say
This is the result of an Islam lived outside of Muslim lands but under direct control [both spiritual and financial] of Egyptian-Saudi scholars and governments
When Western Muslims will be free of this sort of influences , by training English Imams in UK and by studying how to fit Islam into the reality they live [which doesn't mean to change the message, simply to give a solid meaning to its universality in space and time], then it will be clear how Islam is a religion of peace and freedom valid for all times and places .

[hijabi]

Salaam Squinty

Let me tell you a lil story which may help you a little. I grew up in the West and eventhough there were Muslims around they were always involved in gangs, drugs and other nasty things. I too watched the news and watched muslim kill muslim, muslim men kill and torture their women and the constant hate bubbling out of "Islamic" leaders mouths. I couldnt stand muslims! In fact it was so bad that I wouldnt even eat with them. Yugh dirty buggers! And then I came to the Gulf (Dubai) for work. When I got here I wanted to understand Islam not becos I wanted to be muslim ( no way! I was a devout Catholic) but bcos I thought it would help with my job. One of the girls I worked with was a little to zealous and started preaching at me, tellin me I was goin to hell if i didnt convert. Well! I didnt take it well. Not well at all, in fact it just cemented the idea that all muslims are nuts! A year later I started working with another Emirati girl. Wow! She never preached, she never lectured but she was the most amazing person I had ever met. She was calm, polite, friendly, hospitable and never did i ever hear a vile comment or word cross her lips. She never lied or gossiped or even got angry. All she'd say is sabhanallah, mashallah etc etc. I wanted to be her! I wanted to be that peaceful content person..... And that is how I became Muslim. Not from the books or the teaching but from a true example of piety and pureness. Sure i studied Islam, I went to college but it was that one woman who made the biggest impact.

When I moved to Oman, it only strengthened me as the ppl Ive met here are (for the most part) the epitomy of what a muslim should be. they may not read all the books and know all the jargon and fatwas but they are true to Islam. Good, honest, giving and forgiving people. Maybe you should move to Oman? :D that same woman once told me Follow your heart not your eyes! Even Winston Churchill said it Islam is a great religion but the muslims are a discordent bunch. (Paraphrase)

[squinty]

amo_l_oman this didn't happen in UK and you are not close to it.

hijabi from what you said, if you didn't move from the West and came to the Middle East to work you would never have become Muslim because of what you have been seeing and hearing. That is what is happening to her AND she has no good Muslim comapny, I think.
The probelm is that there are a lot of people who dislike us for some reasons that I hate to talk about but I think you all know what it would be...
:mmhmm:

But when you see someone say something and do something else what would you think of them?
I think this is how she took Islam.

[jack]

Yusuf al-Qaradawi (http://www.memritv.org/subject/en/589.htm) is the leading worldwide Islamic scholar. She should seek out his teachings of Islam to learn more about TRUE Islam.

I have and I'm glad I did.

[Threadlike]

jack,
To say that someone is 'the' leading figure in Islamic Scholarship is absoloutely stupid.

There's nothing as 'the' leading figure. We have no leading figures in the Muslim world, except politcally. Put it this way: I can go learn Catholicism from the Pope, that is not possible in case of Islam since we have no such authority as the Pope or the Vatican.

[amo_l_oman]

Yusuf al-Qaradawi (http://www.memritv.org/subject/en/589.htm) is the leading worldwide Islamic scholar.
Don't think so
There are some good things from him and some completely wrong
She can go to study directly the sources which have been translated in English as well [Ibn Kather, Ibn Thamiyya, Ibn Jareer and many others ] and forms her own idea
But that's for a later stage