View Full Version : Research: "Israel"


BrAiKi
17-03-08, 01:14 AM
This thread is a simple research I made in religion studies, the main purpose of the thread is giving information and spotting lights on things most people didn't know, it is open for constructive discussions however

As a kid getting Islamic studies, it was weird for me to see jews being called "children of Israel" in Quraan and hearing/reading on the news the current jews' country being called "Israel" too, knowing that they are not muslims..
When I started knowing more and more about religion, I realized that "Israel" was the other name of Prophet Jacob (Ya`qob in Arabic) the father of Joseph. Reading more into the Torah and Gospels (Bible) I found that the descendants of Jacob were called the same too: Children of Israel.
Below are the some of the verses that mentioned the Children of Israel from the Torah, The Bible's New Testament and The Quraan:

In the Torah:
Genesis 36:31 - And these are the kings who were ruling in the land of Edom before there was any king over the children of Israel.

In The Gosples (The Bible):
Luke 1:16 And through him great numbers of the children of Israel will be turned to the Lord their God.

In the Quraan:
The Cow 2:40. O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.

But here comes the question; why was Jacob called Israel? What does Israel actually mean?!

I asked myself these questions many times, and I found the answer not long after I started reading in the Torah..
Genesis 32:24 Then Jacob was by himself; and a man was fighting with him till dawn.
32:25 But when the man saw that he was not able to overcome Jacob, he gave him a blow in the hollow part of his leg, so that his leg was damaged.
32:26 And he said to him, Let me go now, for the dawn is near. But Jacob said, I will not let you go till you have given me your blessing.
32:27 Then he said, What is your name? And he said, Jacob.
32:28 And he said, Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel: for in your fight with God and with men you have overcome.

Some scholars and historians agree that the man Jacob fought with was God, some say it was an Angel of God. Some say that the name "Israel" means the Power of God, or the God Rules, some say it means the one who fought with and overcame God!
As a muslim, I find it difficult to comprehend that Jacob fought with God/Angel of God and overcame. However, the name indicates so. I spoke to a professor who studied history of religions and he told me Isra-el are two words: Isra-Eel Isra meaning captured (which is very similar to Asar = captured in Arabic!) and Eel means God in ancient Hebrew! Even if that concept is correct, every single muslim would disagree with it, although he is referred to as "Israel" in the Quraan too!

El Rey
17-03-08, 02:18 AM
Since we all agree that Jacob PBUH is a prophet of God then we won't buy the story that he fought God or the angel of God coz it doesnt make sense. And regarding the meaning of Israel, you related its meaning into Arabic which is good but let's have another look in the word. Israel إسرائيل . I have nothing against ( el )to mean God since I have also read that this part of the word has evolved to mean Allah in Arabic sharing the ل L. However, the second part of the word: Isra إسرا doesn't seem to mean captured since in Arabic captured is Asara with A not I and here the word is Isra إسرا which means a continous and unlimited movement of seeking: more closely to mean searching or seeking eagerly. So it's more like moving continously for seeking for God = seeking of truth which eventually means: Salve of God and this Islamically make more sense.

Jeff
17-03-08, 03:27 AM
I think you have to understand that the "struggle with God" is really a struggle with ourselves.

Jesus said something similar that also sounds weird:

"Since the beginning the Kingdom of God has suffered violence, and the violent bear it away."

That means, the people who attack God's Kindgom WIN and carry it away like a prize! :think:

The idea is something like this...

If we don't understand God or our emotions are overwhelming us, we have to shout out and struggle, even to object. In a way, this might seem to be fighting "against" God, but it's a struggle that God wants us to fight.

The Book of Revelation says that God accepts the hot and the cold, but the lukewarm, He will spew out of His Mouth.

The person who "struggles with God" and "wins" is the person who might complain bitterly, "Why this?" and "Why that?", but in the end, he CARES about God very deeply, that's why he keeps struggling with God.

And when he "wins" his fight, then it is really God who wins.

It's the same way in prayer. We might pray for something and not get it. But a saint will keep bombarding heaven with prayer, "insisting" that God answer. And this is exactly what God wants and rewards.

But an ordinary person might just get discouraged and give up and go away, and his faith in God and closeness to God will suffer.

Then end point is: It's a way of talking. If you understand the inner meaning, it doesn't seem so odd.