Jews believe that Jesus is illegitimate because he was born without father, therefore they disrespect Mary and place limitations over God miracles.

Christians went to another extreme and said that since he was born without father then his father must be God, and that makes him son of God and Mary is the mother of the son of God.

Only Muslims hold the truth as pointed out in the Quran that Jesus pbuh is no more than a messanger and his birth was a miracle same as the creation of Adam.

O people of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Isâ (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

Jews believe that Jesus is illegitimate because he was born without father, therefore they disrespect Mary and place limitations over God miracles.
Sir Ice Tea,

Can you quote reference?
Where did you get it?

Christians went to another extreme and said that since he was born without father then his father must be God, and that makes him son of God and Mary is the mother of the son of God.

Sir Ice Tea,

This is misnoma and unfair interpretation.

They don't mean that.
Yes , we disagree with the concept of Trinity but we should try to understand what they mean.
Regards.

Sir Ice Tea,

Can you quote reference?
Where did you get it?

I believe there is a reference in the Quran.

Jews are the enemy of all believers till the end of the world, they killed the messengers of Allah swt and disbelieved in all the messages of the Prophets including Moses and Jesus(peace be upon them).

they will end up perishing from the face of this earth one day on the hands of the believers.

Jews knew God and Believed in him way before Christianity & Islam. And now you say they will be killed by the "Believers" of the God of Ibrahim.
Ironic, isn't it? :)

^Not Ironic...
More like black comedy. Sadly, this thread may take a turn to become a discussion of how we should all hate and kill every Jew.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Moses and Ibrahaim were Jews. So is their blood tainted as well? And as far as the "death" of Jesus...the Roman Empire had allot to do with the Crucifixion.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Moses and Ibrahaim were Jews. So is their blood tainted as well? And as far as the "death" of Jesus...the Roman Empire had allot to do with the Crucifixion.
the turning point that led Jesus towards the Crucifixion was Pontius Pilate...he sent Jesus to Herod because Jesus was a Galilean, who sent him back to Pilate who washed his hands off the matter, sending him directly to be crucified.

In some ways I saw Jesus' "death" as being very political for the region of that time. The Roman Empire had a heavy influence on the mindset of the Jews and the politics. Though I have to say the Jewish leaders of that time (including the religious ones) have His blood on their hands as well.

In some ways Jesus became a convienient scapegoat. But He knew that His death was going to happen. Remember the Agony in the Garden and how He professed that He was going to be betrayed? Very convoluted.

In some ways I saw Jesus' "death" as being very political for the region of that time. The Roman Empire had a heavy influence on the mindset of the Jews and the politics. Though I have to say the Jewish leaders of that time (including the religious ones) have His blood on their hands as well.

In some ways Jesus became a convienient scapegoat. But He knew that His death was going to happen. Remember the Agony in the Garden and how He professed that He was going to be betrayed? Very convoluted.
they didn't like one guy, who went out without an army or any violence, a guy preaching good and nothing but, having such a big following....
'he's dangerous!' (remember the Jesus Christ Superstar song? )
that's what Jesus was to them...a dangerous man who had such a huge following that people were prepared to walk for ages and go hungry just to listen to his voice.

Oh I know that but from what I understand about the political history of that time the powers that be in that region were afraid of this man and how powerful he was becoming since he was gaining many followers. Christians believe that God knew Jesus was coming to save us from our sins and the political beast that was in place during the time of Jesus was the venue for which he was to become Savior.

Oh I know that but from what I understand about the political history of that time the powers that be in that region were afraid of this man and how powerful he was becoming since he was gaining many followers. Christians believe that God knew Jesus was coming to save us from our sins and the political beast that was in place during the time of Jesus was the venue for which he was to become Savior.
yeps...and the people of the time thought that the 'messiah' was a guy who was gonna come with a fully loaded army and annihilate the romans...
little did they see that the messiah was a saviour of souls...

True I believe this 200%...interesting how some people here think saving a race/religion has to be done through the blood of many i.e. suicide bombings etc....and through various acts of violence and it only took the blood of a Divine Prophet and Savior of one to open the door to Heaven.

I believe there is a reference in the Quran.

If you wish to argue with them , quote and take help of their scripture.

You knowthey don't agreewith the last testament, so why force on that scripture.
Give rest to Holy Qur'an.

Jews are the enemy of all believers till the end of the world, they killed the messengers of Allah swt and disbelieved in all the messages of the Prophets including Moses and Jesus(peace be upon them).

they will end up perishing from the face of this earth one day on the hands of the believers.

Evidence and reference please?

Jews believe that Jesus is illegitimate because he was born without father, therefore they disrespect Mary and place limitations over God miracles.


I doubt they'd really care unless they were anti-missionary.

How you have phrased the statement suggests they have acknowledged Jesus, which they haven't.

Therefore they are not disrespecting Mary nor are they putting limitations on God.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Moses and Ibrahaim were Jews. So is their blood tainted as well? And as far as the "death" of Jesus...the Roman Empire had allot to do with the Crucifixion.
Prophet Ibrahim wasn't a jew. "Jews" as a nation were known as Hebrews. It started after the time of prophet Jacob (as known as Israel). While the Law came with the Torah, which means it came with Prophet Moses.
They were called "Hebrews" until the time of Christ or after him, not very sure when though.

However, I don't think Jews care about who Jesus was nor they bother speaking of him.

Fair enough...Ibrahaim was a Hebrew from which Jews descended but Moses was a Jew we cannot deny that so anyone who has issues with Jewish history/religion and think of them as being evil and tainted really should have an issue with Moses as well since he was also a Jew.

Prophet Ibraham pbuh was a muslim also.

I doubt they'd really care unless they were anti-missionary.

How you have phrased the statement suggests they have acknowledged Jesus, which they haven't.

Therefore they are not disrespecting Mary nor are they putting limitations on God.

Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: "O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariyy (a mighty thing). (Tafsir Al-Tabari).

"O sister (i.e. the like) of Hârûn (Aaron)! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman."

And prophet Ibrahaim was a Hebrew..................don't change history. Islam was not there yet.......that would come many many many years down the road. I and quite a few other Christians don't consider Ibrahaim a Christian but a Hebrew whose teachings and his example of living life lead to Christianity............You cannot grandfather in those people. They were what they were in the religion and culture they grew up in.

I disagree with you, Islam was there since day one, God have sent thousands of prophets to earth by name only 25 prophets mentioned in the holy Quran. All of them came with the same message to preach the true faith of Islam. Many people think prophet Mohammed pbuh is the founder of Islam but it is not true, prophet Mohammed pbuh was the last and final messanger with the last scripture the Quran. The only difference is that previouse prophets were sent to a group of people and for limited period of time unlike prophet Mohammed pbuh was sent to all mankind (including jinn) and the Quran is to all mankind (including jinn).

Think about it God is one, the source of the message is one, which means All prophets came to spread Islam which is the true religion of Allah.

Well, that is your view----so Ibrahaim's lifestyle...the way he viewed God, the way he lived his life as a Hebrew meant nothing???????? That his ancestory...the people who came before him and after who were of the Jewish faith meant nothing because they do not fit the Islamic view of what religion is????...not everyone on this planet thinks that way. Again, those of you who believe this fine but trust me myself and others will not change our minds because we have a right to believe in God the way we wish and the way we were taught.

God bless!

Jews knew God and Believed in him way before Christianity & Islam. And now you say they will be killed by the "Believers" of the God of Ibrahim.
Ironic, isn't it? :)

God in the Talmud:


God is represented as roaring like a lion. etc., etc.

Berachoth, fol. 3, col. 1. See chap. iii. No. 1, supra.

God is said to wear phylacteries.

Berachoth, fol. 6, col. 1.

God, when charged by Moses as being the cause of Israel's idolatry, confesseth the justice of that accusation by saying (Num. xiv. 20), "I have pardoned according to thy word."

Ibid., fol. 32, col. 1.

He drops two tears into the ocean, and this causes the earth to quake.

Ibid., fol. 59, col. 1.

He is represented as a hairdresser; for it is said He plaited Eve's hair (and some have actually enumerated the braids as 700).

Eiruvin, fol. 18, col. 1.

In a Hagada (see Sanhedrin, fol. 95, col. 2), God is conceived as acting the barber to Sennacherib, a sort of parody on Isaiah vii. 20.

He is said to have created the evil as well as the good passions in man.

Berachoth, fol. 61, col. 1.

God weeps every day.

Chaggigah, fol. 3, col. 2.

He dresses Himself in a veil and shows Moses the Jewish liturgy, saying unto him, "When the Israelites sin against me, let them copy this example, and I will pardon their sins."

Rosh Hashanah, fol. 17, col. 2

God is said to have regretted creating certain things.

Succah, fol. 52, col. 2.

God is represented as irrigating the land of Israel, but leaving the rest of the earth to be watered by an angel.

Taanith, fol. 10, col. 1.

It is said that He will make a dance for the righteous, and as He places Himself in the centre, they will point at Him with their fingers, and say (Isa. xxv. 9), "Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him; . . . we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."

Ibid., fol. 31, col. 1.

God is said to have regretted creating certain things.

Succah, fol. 52, col. 2.

God is represented as irrigating the land of Israel, but leaving the rest of the earth to be watered by an angel.

Taanith, fol. 10, col. 1.

It is said that He will make a dance for the righteous, and as He places Himself in the centre, they will point at Him with their fingers, and say (Isa. xxv. 9), "Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him; . . . we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."

Ibid., fol. 31, col. 1.

God utters a curse against those who remain single after they are twenty years of age; and those who marry at sixteen please him, and those who do so at fourteen still more.

Kiddushin, fol. 29, col. 2.

Elijah binds and God flogs the man who marries an unsuitable wife.

Ibid., fol. 70, col. 1.

God acknowledges His weakness in argument, "My children have vanquished me! my children have vanquished me!" He exclaims. "They have defeated me in argument."

Bava Metzia, fol. 59, col. 2.


God's decision was controverted by the Academy in heaven, and the matter in debate was finally settled by a Rabbi, who had to be summoned from earth to heaven expressly to adjudicate in the case.

Bava Metzia, fol. 86, col. 1.

God will bear testimony before all the nations of the earth that His people Israel have kept the whole of the law.

Avodah Zarah, fol. 3, col. 1.

God is occupied for twelve hours every day in study, at work, or at play.

Ibid., fol. 3, col. 2.

God does not act without first consulting the assembly above; as it is said (Dan. iv. 17), "This matter is by the decree of the watchers and the demand of the word of the Holy One," etc.

Sanhedrin, fol. 38, col. 2.

God Himself is described as exacting an atonement for His own miscreations; as, for instance, His diminishing the size of the moon.

Shevuoth, fol. 9, col. 1

I doubt they'd really care unless they were anti-missionary.

How you have phrased the statement suggests they have acknowledged Jesus, which they haven't.

Therefore they are not disrespecting Mary nor are they putting limitations on God.

How about this:


The Talmud and Mary, Mother of Jesus

She is called "Miriam, a dresser of women's hair." She "committed adultery." (Exhibit 75)

"She played the harlot with carpenters." (Exhibit 114)

I've gotten a few reports about the post above me, and I just want to make it clear the 'quoting' is different than displaying a personal opinion, as long as it's valid towards the argument then it's fine with us.

But we as Muslims hold Mary in very high regards so I doubt IceTea means to insult her.

Quoting crap like Mary is a harlot is more than just quoting...it is digging to find disrespectful things about holy figures of the Christian faith to poke fun at.

You are right.

In fact above quotes from the Jews Talmud regarding Sayidah Mariam (mother of prophet Issa pbuh) is an insult to us Muslims who respect her.

Then why post it? I know that she was Divine and God came solely unto her to bring about change in humanity. To hear she is a commoner is offensive to my eyes and to others who revere Mary most high, blessed be she.

In fact above quotes from the Jews Talmud regarding Sayidah Mariam (mother of prophet Issa pbuh) is an insult to us Muslims who respect her.

There you go, I hope it's clear to everyone now.

Fine but what made me mad is to say Jesus is illigitmate and to bring Mary in as a harlot????????????? WHY even post it. This thread should be closed.

Then why post it? I know that she was Divine and God came solely unto her to bring about change in humanity. To hear she is a commoner is offensive to my eyes and to others who revere Mary most high, blessed be she.

You are disrespecting her by saying she was Divine and God came unto her.

She is simply a human being, and the creation of Jesus pbuh was a miracle by a word from Allah.

Fine but what made me mad is to say Jesus is illigitmate and to bring Mary in as a harlot????????????? WHY even post it. This thread should be closed.

That was a reply to the Jewish lady kara.

Well, I would love to see her response then because reading something like that is disgusting to me. I cannot believe blessed Mary would be seen as a ***** because that is what a harlot is. I fail to see the link between Mary being visited by the Angel Gabriel and receiving Jesus and equating that to a commoner who spreads her legs for pleasure.

Well, I would love to see her response then because reading something like that is disgusting to me. I cannot believe blessed Mary would be seen as a ***** because that is what a harlot is. I fail to see the link between Mary being visited by the Angel Gabriel and receiving Jesus and equating that to a commoner who spreads her legs for pleasure.:yes::yes::yes:

God bless her and save her from insult.

This is a beautiful site, based on the book: Maryam, an expemplary Muslim woman.
I noticed that there are some paintings from churches there, but anyhow, the book is based on how Muslims see our mother, Virgin Mary, God's blessings be on her.

www.womaninthequran.com

A quote:
Maryam displayed this superior morality and became a role model and a living invitation to religion through her faith, behavior, and character. Her genuine call is answered in the best possible way, Allah willing. The believers' faith continues to deepen as they follow Maryam's example and try to emulate her character.

I understand why marianna is upset. It's a HORRIBLE thing to read about our blessed mother Mary.

i was upset as well. In Malta there is a huge devotion towards Marija. Thanks for your post, it uplifted me.

How about this:


The Talmud and Mary, Mother of Jesus

She is called "Miriam, a dresser of women's hair." She "committed adultery." (Exhibit 75)

"She played the harlot with carpenters." (Exhibit 114)

This is from people driving the Talmud without a licence. Her source is Travers Herford who wrote "Christianity in the Talmud and Midrash".

They are not about Mary.

The first one - mary is a hairdresser and commits adultery is not in the Talmud. Its apparently from Sanhedrin 67a, and that is about seducers (to idolatry)

The second is this

Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, [did the children of Israel slay with the sword]. A soothsayer? But he was a prophet! — R. Johanan said: At first he was a prophet, but subsequently a soothsayer. R. Papa observed: This is what men say, 'She who was the descendant of princes and governors, played the harlot with carpenters.'

Does it mention Mary? No. Its about Balaam in the Torah.

Geez, people will try to anything to read into something that isn't there.

Well, I would love to see her response then because reading something like that is disgusting to me. I cannot believe blessed Mary would be seen as a ***** because that is what a harlot is. I fail to see the link between Mary being visited by the Angel Gabriel and receiving Jesus and equating that to a commoner who spreads her legs for pleasure.


I hope my response above cleared it up. The quotes that Ice Tea gave are from a christian site that likes to discredit Jews, and in particular the american women who wrote it was a Nazi supporter who was charged with sedition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Dilling

Interesting...would love to see a response to this. If the Talmoud has been besmirched by Nazi pigs then whatever is on that site cannot be held creditble because like the KKK and Skinheads and Nazi filth they all hate Jews and Catholics.

I think we all accept Moses and Jesus were Jewish. Was the Prophet :PBUH: a Jew?

Afterall, weren't everyone living there at the time decended from the Hebrew Tribes?

I think we all accept Moses and Jesus were Jewish. Was the Prophet :PBUH: a Jew?

Afterall, weren't everyone living there at the time decended from the Hebrew Tribes?

The Messengers of God all came with the same message - monotheism. The belief that there is No God but God.

When Muslims say that there were all Muslims, it means that they all submitted to God and worshipped the one true God.

This is what Islam means in the Quranic perspective. The term 'Muslim' nowadays is different referring to the exclusive followers of Muhammed :PBUH:. This is not the Quranic view. All who had submitted themselves to God from the beginning of time are seen as the followers of Islam or monotheism from the beginning of time.