Once I was having a chat with someone who is not Muslim and he told me he is interested in knowing my religion and all adn asked if he can accompany me to the Mosque.
That is where I got stuck!
I told him about the "cleaning" we have to do before entering the Mosque because we take it as the "House of God".

My question is can we let non-Muslims enter the Mosque without "cleaning" or they have to do it like us before entering?

Afaik.. the cleaning is required for praying, no?

Just tell him you lot have a shower before and to make sure his feet are clean.

Damn, we don't step on the carpet at home with shoes on, I doubt he'd expect to keep his shoes on if everyone else is taking them off.

I've been in our mosque. I didn't do the ritual cleaning thing.. and I didn;t pray. But I was asked to cover my hair.. and I can understand and respect that because we ask tourists to cover their shoulders and knees when they enter our churches..

I never came across a verse/hadeeth that forbids non muslims from entering a mosque.

Some say that non muslims are forbidden from entering a mosque, others say that the non muslims used to be taught in mosques hence it is not forbidden.

Some would say that they can go in, but not during prayer times.

The cleaning here is not washing feet and body with water. It's the intangible cleanness. Any Non-Muslim is considered not clean to enter a mosque and thus, shouldn't be allowed to. I was discussing this issue with someone and i asked him what about if the Non Muslim was interested in knowing about Islam and its teachings ( The mosque sometimes is a very main reason for many to embrace Islam: seeing muslims standing in one row regardless their colors, ethnics and races ). This is a very exact example of what squinty brought here and am not sure about the answer though.

The cleaning here is not washing feet and body with water. It's the intangible cleanness. Any Non-Muslim is considered not clean to enter a mosque and thus, shouldn't be allowed to. I was discussing this issue with someone and i asked him what about if the Non Muslim was interested in knowing about Islam and its teachings ( The mosque sometimes is a very main reason for many to embrace Islam: seeing muslims standing in one row regardless their colors, ethnics and races ). This is a very exact example of what squinty brought here and am not sure about the answer though.
I'm not sure if that is according to Ibadi, but you DID see the picture I posted with our archbishop praying in our mosque.. right?

What squinty is talking about is the ritual cleaning before prayers.

I never came across a verse/hadeeth that forbids non muslims from entering a mosque.

Some say that non muslims are forbidden from entering a mosque, others say that the non muslims used to be taught in mosques hence it is not forbidden.

Some would say that they can go in, but not during prayer times.

There is a verse says that non muslims can't enter Almasjid Alharam. So Some scholars generalized this verse to all mosues.

( يا أيها الذين آمنوا إنما المشركون نجس فلا يقربوا المسجد الحرام ). [التوبة : 28]

I'm not sure if that is according to Ibadi, but you DID see the picture I posted with our archbishop praying in our mosque.. right?

What squinty is talking about is the ritual cleaning before prayers.

If it's the ritual cleaning then i think it's a must before entering the mosque. Coz we Muslims should be clean to enter the mosque since it's a very holy place which is considered as the House of God. But yah as you said, maybe it differs from a sect to another.

that is a verse from the Quran? and can you please translate?

I thought non-muslim couldn't enter the mosque when it's prayer times ?!
plus, a non-muslim can enter a mosque if there are some kind of "tourist hours" or whatever.. lol

'coz i've visited the grand mosque in muscat but non-muslim are required to come only the morning (when there are no prayers) and women have to wear scarfs.. that's all .. :mmhmm:

Interesting I remember a Muslim friend of mine was invited to a church for their services and he wasn't banned to attend.

I thought non-muslim couldn't enter the mosque when it's prayer times ?!
plus, a non-muslim can enter a mosque if there are some kind of "tourist hours" or whatever.. lol

'coz i've visited the grand mosque in muscat but non-muslim are required to come only the morning (when there are no prayers) and women have to wear scarfs.. that's all .. :mmhmm:
I'm non muslim and I've been in our mosque even during prayer times.. I just sat at the back and watched.

that is a verse from the Quran? and can you please translate?

Here:

O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

Hmmmm...I don't consider myself unclean and neither do I consider my daughter unclean either.

I'm non muslim and I've been in our mosque even during prayer times.. I just sat at the back and watched.

And how did you felt when muslims pray to the creator directly?

Ice tea, Stick to the topic. Thank you.

'coz i've visited the grand mosque in muscat but non-muslim are required to come only the morning (when there are no prayers) and women have to wear scarfs.. that's all .. :mmhmm:

That's why Omani people call it the museum :p

Interesting I remember a Muslim friend of mine was invited to a church for their services and he wasn't banned to attend.

What's allowed in christianity doesnt necessarily mean it should be allowed in Islam. We differ in many religious things. This won't be the only one we have different views about.

Here:

O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Christians are not pagans.

Buy a dictionary. Please.

Ever heard about the A3raby who came in the mosque at the prophet PBUH's time and took a leak in it?
And how the prophet PBUH didn't even tell him to get out or stop him? But waited and told him about Islam.

That kind of answers the question I guess.

from what I know all non-muslims are allowed to enter to our mosques whether praying times or not if their intention to see how muslims are praying and to have a look at the mosque from inside.

they don't have to be clean in a sense like us perform ablution or washing but they should wear decent clothes specially women covering their hair and body.

at Prophet's (peace be upon him time) non muslims entered the mosques in different occasions.

Christians are not pagans.

Buy a dictionary. Please.

They are pagans according to this verse:

( لقد كفر الذين قالوا إن الله هو المسيح ابن مريم وقال المسيح يا بني إسرائيل اعبدو الله ربي وربكم إنه من يشرك بالله فقد حرم الله عليه الجنة ومأواه النار وما للظالمين من أنصار * لقد كفر الذين قالوا إن الله ثالث ثلاثة ..). [ المائدة : 72-73].

72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

74. Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.

75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

You're the one who needs to buy a dictionary not me. I know my religion very well thank you.

Rey,

That verse doesn't mention paganism, I think you're missing Thready's point. Pagan has a particular meaning, it's not the same as "non-Believer".

Squint:

You can visit the Grand Mosque at certain times of day with non-Muslims.

Well, am not sure about the english translation but in Arabic it says: kafara which means became a pagan whoever said that Jesus PBUH is God.

No Rey, that's the point..."pagan" is not a good translation of kafara. Paganism is a specific belief system; Christians are not pagans even if you count them as unbelievers.

What does Kafir means in english then? i don't think they go beyond disbelievers too since they believe in God. But is believing in Jesus as a God considered as disbelieving in the one and Only one God ?

Kafir means unbeliever; another unpleasant word is "heathen" maybe! But unbeliever or non-believer is best.

Anyway, whatever you call them, invite them along to the mosque :D

For a Christian not to believe Jesus and God are the same is called heresy:

heresy



Main Entry: her·e·sy
Pronunciation: \ˈher-ə-sē, ˈhe-rə-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural her·e·sies
Etymology: Middle English heresie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin haeresis, from Late Greek hairesis, from Greek, action of taking, choice, sect, from hairein to take
Date: 13th century
1 a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2 a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards

Kafir means unbeliever; another unpleasant word is "heathen" maybe! But unbeliever or non-believer is best.

Anyway, whatever you call them, invite them along to the mosque :D

Thank you and unbelievers are not considered clean in Islam :D . Regarding the fact if they are allowed or not allowed to enter a mosque, I mentioned before that i still don't know about it. But if it's allowed then i will be so willing to invite anyone who is interested in knowing about Islam and see the mosque as well. :)

You know, Muslims are considered unclean "non-believers" in the Roman Catholic faith but I don't go around saying that because even though they are considered the same they can still go to Heaven according to the Catholic teachings.

Well it must be allowed according to the Ibadhi scholars at least, because non-Muslims are invited to visit the Grand Mosque at certain times of day...I think it's 0800-1000 Saturday-Thursday from what I remember.
But you're right, some people have different opinions on these things. Personally I think it's a good thing as long as it doesn't disturb anyone.

You know, Muslims are considered unclean "non-believers" in the Roman Catholic faith but I don't go around saying that because even though they are considered the same they can still go to Heaven according to the Catholic teachings.

How are muslims considered unclean ? can you please give as a proof for this ? reliable one from christianity ?

mimosa: am Ibathi as more than 90% of Omani people and as i said before Omani people call the grand mosque ( the grand museum ) since it's almost used as a touristic place rather than a place to worship God.

Well if that bothers you, then take it up with your Sheikh...personally I think it's very beautiful and if it inspires non-Muslims to ask more questions about Islam, then it can't be a bad thing.

Oman 90% Ibadhi? Interesting debate that one, but probably for another thread..:)

See how that makes you take note? No one likes to be determined unclean do they? The Roman Catholic church believes that those who fail to believe that Jesus is the one true Savior and God can be condemed to hell, that their soul is impure due to this. Those whose souls did not accept Christ as Lord can be sent to purgatory to have this sin cleansed from their soul before they can enter Heaven.

Pope Eugene IV: "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." From his Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

Catholic theology takes seriously the notion that "nothing unclean shall enter heaven." From this it is inferred that a less than cleansed soul, even if "covered," remains a dirty soul and isn’t fit for heaven. It needs to be cleansed or "purged" of its remaining imperfections. The cleansing occurs in purgatory. Indeed, the necessity of the purging is taught in other passages of Scripture, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which declares that God chose us "to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit." Sanctification is thus not an option, something that may or may not happen before one gets into heaven. It is an absolute requirement, as Hebrews 12:14 states that we must strive "for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

Well if that bothers you, then take it up with your Sheikh...personally I think it's very beautiful and if it inspires non-Muslims to ask more questions about Islam, then it can't be a bad thing.

Oman 90% Ibadhi? Interesting debate that one, but probably for another thread..:)

Actually it bothers me sometimes. :) and the 90% Ibadhis was meant to be that the majority. Am not sure about the exact percentage though. But yah it's interesting to have a seperate thread discussing it :cute:

See how that makes you take note? No one likes to be determined unclean do they? The Roman Catholic church believes that those who fail to believe that Jesus is the one true Savior and God can be condemed to hell, that their soul is impure due to this. They will be sent to purgatory to have this sin cleansed from their soul before they can enter Heaven.

Pope Eugene IV: "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." From his Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

And you believe in this ?

I believe in my Catholic Doctrine the same way you believe in your faith.

and that is where it has to stop..
open other threads to talk about what YOU want..
I asked a SIMPLE question and I don't want it to turn into a fight...

I believe in my Catholic Doctrine the same way you believe in your faith.

If you believe in this which says that they are going to eternal fire then how come you said that they still can go to heaven ? Doesn't this go against your catholic teachings ?

You know, Muslims are considered unclean "non-believers" in the Roman Catholic faith but I don't go around saying that because even though they are considered the same they can still go to Heaven according to the Catholic teachings.


How many Catholic teachings there are ?

Once I was having a chat with someone who is not Muslim and he told me he is interested in knowing my religion and all adn asked if he can accompany me to the Mosque.
That is where I got stuck!
I told him about the "cleaning" we have to do before entering the Mosque because we take it as the "House of God".

My question is can we let non-Muslims enter the Mosque without "cleaning" or they have to do it like us before entering?


Squinty…
Take your friend straight to the mosque…no shower…nothing is needed, just tell him that he has to wear pants or even long shorts will do.
He doesn’t have to be a Muslim to get into the mosque and give him a copy of translated Quran, he doesn’t have to wash his hands before touching it…

But isn't there like a general rule?
So I can really take anyone into the mosque and let them see what they want without making them do something?
If that is the case then that is good! :D

Squinty…
Take your friend straight to the mosque…no shower…nothing is needed, just tell him that he has to wear pants or even long shorts will do.
He doesn’t have to be a Muslim to get into the mosque and give him a copy of translated Quran, he doesn’t have to wash his hands before touching it…

Are you sure about this ? :think:

Squinty: I think you have got an answer now. If the guy is interested in knowing about Islam then ask him to do the ritual cleaning before entering the mosque and wear decent clothes then you both can go.

It's okay El Ray, I don't want to vist your mosque anyway.

El Rey... I thought of telling him to do that..
But do you think non-Muslims can REALLY do what we do?
Let us say you go to a church.. you want to read the bible.. but they have a certain way of doing things... What would you do?
Pray like them?
Read like them?

Think about it.

It's okay El Ray, I don't want to vist your mosque anyway.
Alas :p

El Rey... I thought of telling him to do that..
But do you think non-Muslims can REALLY do what we do?
Let us say you go to a church.. you want to read the bible.. but they have a certain way of doing things... What would you do?
Pray like them?
Read like them?

Think about it.

Can do what ? He doesnt have to do anything. And I don't think he will ask to do anything but setting there maybe. Have a look around. About me going to the church: I've been to churches just to watch and see what's in there and i read some of the bible to see the difference between it and the Holy Quran but i don't pray with them since they consider Jesus as a God and we Muslims don't. They worship Jesus and we worship the one and only one Allah.

Are you sure about this ? :think:

Squinty: I think you have got an answer now. If the guy is interested in knowing about Islam then ask him to do the ritual cleaning before entering the mosque and wear decent clothes then you both can go.

No squinty…
He doesn’t have to…
Just to avoid any embarrassment, check with the mosque management if it is OK with them …maybe the guy in charge has this strange idea as well, , if it is not ok, I am sure there are other mosques where it is OK.

I have been to many mosques and no such ruled is applied.

The prophet met the delegation of Najran in the mosque, there were not Muslims.

See how that makes you take note? No one likes to be determined unclean do they? The Roman Catholic church believes that those who fail to believe that Jesus is the one true Savior and God can be condemed to hell, that their soul is impure due to this. Those whose souls did not accept Christ as Lord can be sent to purgatory to have this sin cleansed from their soul before they can enter Heaven.



What we know that Jesus pbuh never claim divinity and never told his followers to worship him.

A kaffir is a person who rejects the truth, for example rejecting the Quran, rejecting Prophet Mohammed pbuh, etc.

A mushrik is a person who associate others with Allah in worship, example believing Jesus is God is a type of shirk.

Wow !

That would make me a mushrik kaffir !

I think wa allah a3lam ( and allah is all knowing) , non-muslims are not allowed to enter mecca and madina. am not sure about other places. but from what i see, non-muslims do enter masjids around the world, over here in america the masjid which i go to allowes a group of college students to listen to the friday khutba. but they leave when its time to pray. mashallah so many people are entering islam over here.


* note : Ibadhi don't make up %90 of omani muslims . maybe about %60-%70