I was watching this video on the Al Jazeera channel (you know how I love to curl up in front of Al Jizz when I have a free moment).

It was pretty shocking.

Apostasy

how sad...the breaking of a family.

Wudjab,

What's the surprise? It seems totally consistent with the Quraan's explicit instructions. She's lucky the interpretation there is not 'instant death'.

I've forever grateful to my parents for not being Muslims...

I'm not surprised UC.

The story is really touching and tragic, how these unjust religious dictates can tear a family apart.

The child is Hindu since his father is a hindu!

AP. thats only one part of the issue.

What's your opinion on the family being broken up, the woman being put in an institution for 'rehabilitation' and the whole concept of adults being free to choose what they wish to believe in ?

Just for clarification purposes and please have Muslim members answer this...if for any reason a Muslim wishes to convert or quit practicing his or her faith what happens and does this vary from country to country.

AP. thats only one part of the issue.

What's your opinion on the family being broken up, the woman being put in an institution for 'rehabilitation' and the whole concept of adults being free to choose what they wish to believe in ?

I think she should have dealt with the situation before it comes to this stage .. I am sure she knew the consequences before entering this marraige so why she didnt she act on it before that?

Ofcourse I dont support muslims leaving Islam, and I do support the Quran that doesnt allow a muslim woman marrying a non muslim man. However, what are the consequences of her choosing another faith .. frankly speaking I dont know. I beleive its not beheading them like it is beleived every where and I read several opinions of scholars on this.
I guess it depends from a case to another, and you have to think of Islam here not as a beleif or a religion but as a complete system (A nation).

So basically it's her fault, and she had no business changing her religion.

Tell me more about that 'no compulsion in religion' bit once again please.

Just for clarification purposes and please have Muslim members answer this...if for any reason a Muslim wishes to convert or quit practicing his or her faith what happens and does this vary from country to country.

Take a look at what Iranian parliament is discussing :o

http://www.religionandpolicy.org/show.php?p=1.1.2000

Woo !

I wonder what they are basing their decision on.

Pretty strict (taken from article):

Article 225-4: Innate Apostate is someone whose parent (at least one) was a Muslim at the time of conception, and who declares him/herself a Muslim after the age of maturity, and leaves Islam afterwards.

Article 225-5: Parental Apostate is one whose parents (both) had been non-Muslims at the time of conception, and who has become a Muslim after the age of maturity, and later leaves Islam and returns to blasphemy.

Article 225-6: If someone has at least one Muslim parent at the time of conception but after the age of maturity, without pretending to be a Muslim, chooses blasphemy is considered a Parental Apostate.

Article 225-7: Punishment for an Innate Apostate is death.

Article 225-8: Punishment for a Parental Apostate is death, but after the final sentencing for three days he/she would be guided to the right path and encouraged to recant his/her belief and if he/she refused, the death penalty would be carried out.

Take a look at what Iranian parliament is discussing :o

http://www.religionandpolicy.org/show.php?p=1.1.2000Are you thinking of moving to Iran?

They do follow Quranic law ...

Are you thinking of moving to Iran
No need
They wanna make it extraterritorial :D

They are much behind Saudia : witchcraft is already punished there
A woman was accused of this crime by a man who claims that she made him impotent :os

They used to punish witchcraft here in The United States but that was back in the 1600's (like half a millennia ago):

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/SALEM.HTM

A man can become impotent due to physical or psychological means. IE, he has diabities, is elderly, has sexual frustrations etc...but witchcraft? No...that is ludicrous and the courts there should know better.

Thats why one is a superpower and the other, well, bans red on Valentines day.

No need
They wanna make it extraterritorial :D

They are much behind Saudia : witchcraft is already punished there
A woman was accused of this crime by a man who claims that she made him impotent :osThat should be a crime ... punishable by beheading ... :p

When the woman was crying by the gate ... heartbreaking. If anything is Haram, this act should be it. Haram.

I think the man should convert to Islam. That would solve all the problems right?

convert to islam, and get the hell out of the country and live as they wish, with the religion they wish.

^ Is that how it is? Convert to a religion you don't believe in just to please those in power to get your own family, who was taken away from you by injustice, back?

Ohh I bet they'll suuurely be Muslims once this is over!

But the thing is what if he "converted" but did not believe in his heart and never would believe that islam is the true path...and once he had his wife he wanted to revert back?

^ Is that how it is? Convert to a religion you don't believe in just to please those in power to get your own family, who was taken away from you by injustice, back?

Ohh I bet they'll suuurely be Muslims once this is over!
i would do it for my daughters. convert in name and not in heart. i'll apologise to the religion i was forced to deny in my heart, sign my name under the new religion and go live as i beleive i should live in a more civilised country that does not taunt people for having a different book.

Muslims try to make me go to rehab, I say no, no, no :p

Maybe someone needs to educate the Malaysian authorities on human rights.

Well, he lives in Malaysia, so he must follow the legislation there. Why would they get married in the first place?

I don't support whats being done now but I don't support their marriage either.

Malaysia must protect its identity, and I support that. We must praise Malaysia for developing so rapidly and keep its identity intact.

All I know, Malaysia does not oppress the minorities, so these minorities must respect its laws. Look at Thailand, the minority Muslims there are being killed for no reason. Look at India, the Hindus are preferred over Muslims even when it comes to jobs. Look at the whole world now, don't they commit unethical behavior in order to protect their identity and race?

Why is Malaysia different then? We must praise it, at least, it has give equal rights to minorities when it comes to jobs and so, unlike some of the most powerful countries in the world.

This is typical of what will happen if and when UK and other countries begin to ignore their own laws and allow sharia or dual law systems to exist ... for family disputes ... to not insult muslim sensibilties :rolleyes:

Hello UK and other countries are you listening?

http://www.kkn.net/~k5tr/photo/ke5c/1eme.jpg

Maybe someone needs to educate the Malaysian authorities on human rights.

Maybe someone needs to stop having double standards?

Please refer to picture posted above.

Minerva,
Yes I understand, he might do it too if he couldn't find another way out. But it's just a message to those who think it's something in THEIR hands to change the hearts of people that it's not going to happen.

I remember a story, has the same idea.

A man was praying wrongly, another man came and hit him, telling him to pray properly.
The man prayed again, the way the man asked him. When he finished, the man who hit him felt bad and wanted to make him smile and said: Yes, now you tell me, which prayer was better this one or the one before?

The man who prayed turned to him and said: The one before.

The man was confused: Why?

The man replied: Because when I prayed my first prayer, it was because I feared God. But when I prayed the second prayer, it was because I feared you.

Forgot to add that the man cried after hearing this from him.

Maybe someone needs to stop having double standards?yes malaysia should ... about half way through the clip ... correct if i'm wrong the man quotes the law that says this case is against malaysain law.

or did i miss something?

The man replied: Because when I prayed my first prayer, it was because I feared God. But when I prayed the second prayer, it was because I feared you.

VERY POWERFUL.

So basically it's her fault, and she had no business changing her religion.

Tell me more about that 'no compulsion in religion' bit once again please.

I didnt say that .. I said she should have solved the lgality of her marraige before having a baby .. its her fault that she waited for the authority to know only after she had the baby and created the complication.

Maybe she was scared of the authority. I feel bad for her, the baby and husband.

Yes, unfortunate

Are the Hindus considered untouchables of lower castes in Malaysia?

yes malaysia should ... about half way through the clip ... correct if i'm wrong the man quotes the law that says this case is against malaysain law.

or did i miss something?

What the hell has that have to do with my comment that you quoted? :os

If she was a man it would be death. At least for her its just some brain washing.

But at least there is no compulsion in Islam.

This is a complex issue. Looking at the bigger picture, in the Malaysian costitution, the definition of Malay is one who follows the Islamic religion. So if she becomes an apostate, she loses her identity of being a malay which is something I doubt she wants to do as she will lose on the "perks" of being a Malay Malaysian. The easier solution would be for him to become a Muslim...even just by name.

It reminds me of the story of Lina Joy who converted to Christianity and married a Christian man and the Malaysian government/courts did not allow her to change her religion on her identity card for various reasons because for one they feared if they allow Lina Joy to officially convert, then countless Malays would do the same undermining the state religion- Islam- as a consequence.

Nice try Hitman.

I suggest this untouchable gentleman migrates in order to serve the White masters (the ones who first brought him to Malaysia in the 18th century), perhaps a predominantly Muslim country isn't a safe haven for him

I heard they burn women in India if they even get "touched" by the "low-cast untouchables".

Its just so ironic to see untouchables talk against Malaysia, a country where the untouchables were give equal rights thanks to Islam.

Anyhow, I hope this family's misery ends soon. But it makes me sick when people try to make a big fuss out of nothing, specially when they are treated like insects in their own country!

I suggest this untouchable gentleman migrates in order to serve the White masters (the ones who first brought him to Malaysia in the 18th century), perhaps a predominantly Muslim country isn't a safe haven for him

I agree with you 100%.

Being a minority in a predominantly Muslim country is not a safe haven nor is it pleasant anywhere in the world.. not just Malaysia.

Neither Malaysia nor anyone else should think they are doing these people a favor by treating them good. These people deserve to be treated well, they're human beings.

Them being 'untouchables' or because they are treated better by (Number)% than in their own countries does not justify this unjustice.

It seems Lym knows a lot about this issue especially on Lina Joy..

Well, he lives in Malaysia, so he must follow the legislation there. Why would they get married in the first place?

I don't support whats being done now but I don't support their marriage either.

Malaysia must protect its identity, and I support that. We must praise Malaysia for developing so rapidly and keep its identity intact.

All I know, Malaysia does not oppress the minorities, so these minorities must respect its laws. Look at Thailand, the minority Muslims there are being killed for no reason. Look at India, the Hindus are preferred over Muslims even when it comes to jobs. Look at the whole world now, don't they commit unethical behavior in order to protect their identity and race?

Why is Malaysia different then? We must praise it, at least, it has give equal rights to minorities when it comes to jobs and so, unlike some of the most powerful countries in the world.


STING... actually the current Malaysian government is evil and oppressing the minority. Ethnic Malays are given too many rights while ethnic Chinese, Indians, and others are highly discriminated against. Malays constitute 50% of the total population but 90% of government jobs go to them. 90% of government-sponsored scholarships to study abroad goes to them. I am Malay but I hate the oppressive government who gives unfair treatment to different groups.

Mahathir did a great job to transform the country in an such a perfect Islamic way , but the current Prime Minister is VERY bad and has destroyed everything. Everybody wants him to step down. Thanks God, this recent election He lost 5 out of 13 states ! The party has never had such great loss.

Back to the topic, this is caused by the stupidity of the current Malaysian government. This ethnic Indian lady didn't choose to become Muslim but she was only Muslim by name as she was raised by Muslims. She didn't believe and practice Islam by heart- so she should be let free to choose whatever faith she likes.