I am sorry, for last days; again my health is not well.
Not getting energy to read.
As it has become habit to visit Sabla and other site, I found a staff on TRINITY which like to share with you.

There are three things one should bear in mind about The Trinity:

1: It is a Mystery
You can enter into it, but you will never understand it ...

2: "The Trinity is like ... "
Whatever you say can only ever be an analogy, it can never be precisely or actually what The Trinity is like.

3: Don't start me talking ...

Having said that, if you were to ask me, I would say The Trinity is communio ... think about the Mystery, not the analogy.

And start with the Holy Spirit, the Shy One, the Paraclete ... for the 'way in' to the Trinitarian Life is in Him.

There is no mention of the word "Trinity" in the Bible, one can conclude from that Jesus pbuh did not preach about it hence it's a concept came after Jesus pbuh death by normal people.

On the other hand it's stated in the holy Quran in no less than two places.

There is no mention of the word "Trinity" in the Bible, one can conclude from that Jesus pbuh did not preach about it hence it's a concept came after Jesus pbuh death by normal people.

On the other hand it's stated in the holy Quran in no less than two places.

Better not to bring the reference of Holy Qur'an here.

^Ice, it can be concluded because you...read the entire Bible by any chance?
Cause if 'I and the Father are one' does not mean there's a trinity in Christianity, I don't know what does...

But anyhow, it's not really productive arguing with you, with all do respect of course.

^Ice, it can be concluded because you...read the entire Bible by any chance?
Cause if 'I and the Father are one' does not mean there's a trinity in Christianity, I don't know what does...
.

there are so many symbolism in the bible and maybe this is also a symblism which means i got the message of God. we are one side

it's like saying i and His Majesty are one: which means whatever he says and does, am with him.

didnt you see the National team logo in Khaleeji 18 ? 'we are all Oman'
does this also mean there are 2 millions Oman ?

^Na-uh...The Bible in this stage is what Christians think is the word inspired from God.
You're saying you can explain the Bible better than the Christians who you believe had 'altered it'.

It's like saying you get a novel's charachters better than the novelist...

^Na-uh...The Bible in this stage is what Christians think is the word inspired from God.
You're saying you can explain the Bible better than the Christians who you believe had 'altered it'.

It's like saying you get a novel's charachters better than the novelist...

i wasn't explaining neither interpreting it i said maybe .

You're saying you can explain the Bible better than the Christians who you believe had 'altered it'.


don't you believe in this too ?

there are so many symbolism in the bible and maybe this is also a symblism which means i got the message of God. we are one side



That is what does it most likely means.

Thread, if "I and the father means" Jesus is God then Jesus will not say "on my own I can do nothing" and he will not say what it means that he is being sent by Him (His God).

Ice, kindly read the link provided in the other thread. It's kind of interesting and shows you the Christian side of it, not the Muslim side. The Muslim side is irrelevant when discussing Christianity.

Yes, El, I believe in it and whole-heartedly.
It is for this reason that I refuse to believe there are ANY references in the Bible to our prophet or to our religion...It had been altered by the hands of humans, period. It is no more holy...
No I didn't see the National Team Logo. But I suspect it's any use comparing it to a verse of the Bible.

The Muslim side is irrelevant when discussing Christianity.


i have to disagree with this, coz since you are and i muslims and we believe in the Holy Quran Allah told us about Prophet Jesus and he's just like any other prophets; a human being. so Islamically it's so relevant to discuss christianity ( specially trinity ) since we are told about it (from the same God sent Jesus PBUM to carry His message) in the Holy quran and Sunna.

No I didn't see the National Team Logo. But I suspect it's any use comparing it to a verse of the Bible

it says as i mentioned: 'we are all Oman' and symbolism is found as i believe in any language. i was giving a very close example of symbolism which means referring a group or someone to another single person or thing doesnt necessarily mean they are one combined thing.

Threadlike is being understood too :hyper:
I think what he is trying to say, we as muslims believe that the trinity was never mentioned by Jesus Christ. We all agree on that. But that doesn't give us the right to look into the Bible and look for references, because since we believe that it was altered, then its not holy anymore and we shouldn't refer to it AT ALL

How about this Quran verse:


[157] Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad (peace be upon him)) whom they find written with them in the Taurât (Torah) (Deut, xviii, 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16), ..

الَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ الرَّسُولَ النَّبِيَّ الْأُمِّيَّ الَّذِي يَجِدُونَهُ مَكْتُوبًا عِنْدَهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَالْإِنْجِيل
ِ

Does it refer to the exisiting Torah/Injeel or the original ones?

Because I can see in the translation the references are made to Deut, xviii, 15 & John xiv, 16.

"I always wonder if it's possible to implement and apply the Trinity methodology in any programming language without using the "IF" statement because using IF religiously can be a weak-faith or a doubtful creed, even if without it is possible, I still see it would take so many lines of codes, while simply believing in one doesn't take much of codes and memory" --[x]

+Salam

Not all Christians believe in the Trinity. Many are Unitarianists, basically they believe in Tawheed (and also that Jesus (as) is a Prophet). The great Human Rights thinkers, John Locke, was a Unitarianist.

John Locke? that name is very familiar :p
Its the first time I hear of such Christians nowadays!

John Locke? that name is very familiar :p
Its the first time I hear of such Christians nowadays!

They are around, albeit a minority. Check wikipedia Unitarianism.

I also have a Eastern European friend who is a Christian. We once started talking about religion and she said that she also believes that Jesus is a Prophet and God is God, and that is her Christian belief.

John Locke is very famous because he had enormous influence on the development of epistemology and political philosophy, and he is widely regarded as one of the most influential Enlightenment thinkers and contributors to liberal theory.

i have to disagree with this, coz since you are and i muslims and we believe in the Holy Quran Allah told us about Prophet Jesus and he's just like any other prophets; a human being. so Islamically it's so relevant to discuss christianity ( specially trinity ) since we are told about it (from the same God sent Jesus PBUM to carry His message) in the Holy quran and Sunna.
Put it this way...In a discussion on a matter of Muslim faith, let's say, the prophethood of prophet Mohammed PBUH, is it any help to mention the virtues of the Christian Trinity?
All I'm saying is...We have to put ourselves in other people's shoes in order to understand their faith better. For that matter, we have to understand what THEY believe in since we know what WE believe in already and thus mentioning it is irrelveant.
Does it refer to the exisiting Torah/Injeel or the original ones?
...Englighten us!
it says as i mentioned: 'we are all Oman' and symbolism is found as i believe in any language. i was giving a very close example of symbolism which means referring a group or someone to another single person or thing doesnt necessarily mean they are one combined thing.
Okay.

And An-Najashi was a Unitarianist. (Thank you Sophis! I was searching for the English word of it for ages.) And that is why he knew Islam was the truth when Surat Maryam was recited to him.

A colleague of mine told me an interesting piece of information. He said that Christians in Ethiopia see the Vatican as 'impure'. Do other Christians believe this?

^I thought the Pope had recently said that other faiths than Catholicism are 'incomplete'.
The Copts in Egypt had quite a fuss over it actually...

All I'm saying is...We have to put ourselves in other people's shoes in order to understand their faith better. For that matter, we have to understand what THEY believe in since we know what WE believe in already and thus mentioning it is irrelveant.
.

nope nope, we undestand what they believe in and we know their faith but since we also know the real story Islam told us about then we have to tell them our story and disagree with them. Jesus came from the same God we muslims and christians believe in and worship. so putting ourselves in their shoes is irrelevant. we should tell them the truth about Jesus and this is by discussion and debating.

The TRUTH is OUR Truth...It's not what Christians believe is the Truth.
To understand what they think the Truth is you need to listen.
To understand that and then to find common word.
But all those are aspects of daw'wa.

I love daw'a but I have to admit I am not at all capable. So I prefer listening to things...

But all those are aspects of daw'wa.

I love daw'a but I have to admit I am not at all capable. So I prefer listening to things...

no you are capable even more than me but your too modest to admit it ;)

and i agree we should listen and we should understand the TRUTH they believe in but on the other hand we also have the right to disagree and give our opinion since the discussed issue is mutual between us.


umm i think we are repeating the same posts again :rolleyes:

1+1+1 = 1

Below things make it illogical:

1. That means Jesus should know about the day of Judgement, but he doesn't know about it.

2. Jesus said on my own I can do nothing.

Ice, from my understanding...
The Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit are not three gods.
But rather ONE God with three different persons or natures.
Thus Christians don't argue 1+1+1=1 but rather that 1x1x1=1. They, like us and Jews, believe that there's only ONE God and no other.
Jesus said that in John 5:30 as I remember...
For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself.
27
And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
28
11 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29
and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.
30
"I cannot do anything on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
31
"If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony cannot be verified.
32
But there is another 12 who testifies on my behalf, and I know that the testimony he gives on my behalf is true.
33
You sent emissaries to John, and he testified to the truth.
34
I do not accept testimony from a human being, but I say this so that you may be saved.
BibleGateway.com explains John 5:30 to 5:38 as follows:
Our Lord returns to his declaration of the entire agreement between the Father and the Son, and declared himself the Son of God. He had higher testimony than that of John; his works bore witness to all he had said. But the Divine word had no abiding-place in their hearts, as they refused to believe in Him whom the Father had sent, according to his ancient promises. The voice of God, accompanied by the power of the Holy Ghost, thus made effectual to the conversion of sinners, still

proclaims that this is the beloved Son, in whom the Father is well pleased. But when the hearts of men are full of pride, ambition, and the love of the world, there is no room for the word of God to abide in them.
This sounds like a totally different meaning from what you're trying to say Ice...

I think verse john 5:7 which says "for there are three that bear record in heaven, the father, the word and the holy ghost: and these three are one" was removed from the Bible because they said it's a fabrication.

DESCRIPTION OF 337 CHANGE'S THAT ARE REMOVED IN THE MODERN TRANSLATIONS (http://www.1john57.com/).

One thing at a time Ice...
What do you think of that other verse, John 5:30 and the explanation provided?

How come our Christian friends are not contributing here?

One thing at a time Ice...
What do you think of that other verse, John 5:30 and the explanation provided?

The explanation is illogical.

"as they refused to believe in Him whom the Father had sent", if Jesus existed before as son then there was no need for God to incarnate.

It looks Christians wrongly interpreted it and it only means that Jesus is not God when he said "on my own I can do nothing" and being sent by Him (means his God).

^Dude,
I think John says that.
Not Jesus.