These are the questions:

Did Jesus ever said "I" created you in the Bible? So if the answer is "No" then "Who" Created us then if not "Jesus"? Isn't Jesus "GOD" himself? And then why when Jesus speaks in the name of God he says "HE" while in fact Jesus himself is "GOD" himself? I mean there should be reasons that Jesus didn't say so, any one can help elaborating this?

Jesus :PBUH: is the slave of Allah

We are all eagerly awaiting his second coming

That is really very difficult to grasp. Why Jesus deny his state of being a "GOD" if that will make his followers believe him more rather than casting them in a dilemma of identifying entities? Didn't Jesus as "GOD" know previously as God that this will be a question to come?

Now in the Bible, did anyone ask Jesus this question: "Are you God?", and what Jesus did reply then? haven't this question jumped into any mind around Jesus that time?

Why didn't God save himself from humiliation of being "Crossed" like thief at that time? People this is GOD, not human king or prince, that is "GOD ALL MIGHTY"!!!!!

The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)

"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)

They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)


Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. (John 11:21-27)

Shai, thanks for the lovely quotes from the Holy Bible

But where did Jesus :PBUH: mention that he had created mankind?

Shai, I think you should know that the Bible was written many years after Jesus death and many things added to it.

Jesus (PBUH) is a holy prophet. He was created by Allah through a miracle. He did not create anyone or anything.

These are the questions:

Did Jesus ever said "I" created you in the Bible? So if the answer is "No" then "Who" Created us then if not "Jesus"? Isn't Jesus "GOD" himself? And then why when Jesus speaks in the name of God he says "HE" while in fact Jesus himself is "GOD" himself? I mean there should be reasons that Jesus didn't say so, any one can help elaborating this?

“Jesus “ incarnated but he is God.
God incarnated in the form of human=”Jesus”.
God created every thing.
So , “Jesus” created………

Shai, thanks for the lovely quotes from the Holy Bible

But where did Jesus :PBUH: mention that he had created mankind?

Not mentioned clearly in the Bible but if you read in between the line, answer is there?

Off topics and unrelated posts have been deleted.

Let’s keep this thread within it is main question

Jesus (PBUH) is a holy prophet. He was created by Allah through a miracle. He did not create anyone or anything.


I don't think there is any other answer for the question " Did Jesus creat us? " other than this !

Jesus (PBUH) is a holy prophet. He was created by Allah through a miracle. He did not create anyone or anything.

I don't think there is any other answer for the question " Did Jesus creat us? " other than this !



When you will evaluate the question from Islamic perspective, answer is simple and strait mentioned above.
But the problem, what our friends think and how the evaluate the issue.

“Jesus “ incarnated but he is God.
God incarnated in the form of human=”Jesus”.
God created every thing.
So , “Jesus” created………

Christians believe that Jesus exists before, so if that is the case why he needs to be born (God incarnate) out of Mary?

Very confusing I must say, that is why Chirstians who search for the truth with open heart left Christianity and became Muslims.

From my personal understanding is that even if Jesus has never really landed on mankind, God (as in the Christian concept of God) would have stayed in three persons. Hence, God has always been (as Christianity I believe tells its followers) in three persons...The Father, The Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. It is (as Christians believe) His nature.

However, 1 + 1 + 1 =3 or 1.

I think Christians don't believe in 1+1+1=3 but rather 1x1x1=1...

If there was no multiplication then what?

^......What?

Let us be practical, who said so?

In Islam Prophet Mohammad said in the words of God that God is "ONE".

Now In Christianity:

- Did God [The Father] say that God is three? No
- Did Jesus [The Son] Say that God is three? No
- Did The [Holy Spirit] say that God is three? No.

Then No X No X No = No (Mathematics)

"How" did they discover that God is "Three" entities? I think it is either, they saw it, they were told about it or.....? ???? ? ?????? (What else)? "Made It"

John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do NOTHING.....I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me."

Who sent me, means that Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah (Him).

What else does it means except that?

John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do NOTHING.....I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me." [

Who sent me,) means that Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah (Him.

What else does it means except that?

God is powerful and all knowing.
So , He incarnated and speaks as “Jesus” that “Jesus”(God) sent himself.
No, it doe not match , looking for better interpretation.

Let us be practical, who said so?

In Islam Prophet Mohammad said in the words of God that God is "ONE".

Now In Christianity:

- Did God [The Father] say that God is three? No
- Did Jesus [The Son] Say that God is three? No
- Did The [Holy Spirit] say that God is three? No.

Then No X No X No = No (Mathematics)

"How" did they discover that God is "Three" entities? I think it is either, they saw it, they were told about it or.....? ???? ? ?????? (What else)? "Made It"


It is perhaps higher math.
They believe in Trinity, it is a conviction, faith, trust.
God+Jesus+Holy spirit= 3.
This is faith.
There are lots of things that cannot be proved.
What would be antithesis?

It is perhaps higher math.
They believe in Trinity, it is a conviction, faith, trust.
God+Jesus+Holy spirit= 3.
This is faith.
There are lots of things that cannot be proved.
What would be antithesis?
No my friend, if faith is a 'deviated' logic it will collapse. True that faith to be called faith should be backed up with 'no proof', but still there should be logic to survive the thin hair between human intelligence & severe doubt.

It is nice to believe, but very dangerous to close your mind.

John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do NOTHING.....I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me."
This is very good IceTea.

Now it would be more logical to say:
"I can of mine own self do NOTHING.....I seek not my own will but the will of My inner Soul (God)"

This would be 'logical' if Both God and Jesus are the same entities in different forms

So... if you are speaking throw a microphone and a speaker, then will the voice not be yours? I think logically it is very clear that there is no way that Jesus will name God 'Him' if both Jesus & God are the same thing.

He also said that on his own can do NOTHING, if he is God then he will NOT say that.

No my friend, if faith is a 'deviated' logic it will collapse. True that faith to be called faith should be backed up with 'no proof', but still there should be logic to survive the thin hair between human intelligence & severe doubt.

It is nice to believe, but very dangerous to close your mind.

I have just explained.
Logic always look for prove.
In every case.
If faith is a 'deviated' logic it will collapse.
You are correct , thank you.

In the far past, humans thought that stones (as solid long-lasting objects) are Gods. The father was pointing to that stone and saying "GOD", and the son was still pointing to it and saying "GOD". It was there for ages and that was good reason to be called god! If you think it thoroughly it will be strong 'faith'.

If it was right enough it would have lived till this day, it would have survived, but it didn't. Now when nature is explained in terms of atoms and force, stone gods fell helpless to prove their (power to act).

Let us be practical, who said so?

In Islam Prophet Mohammad said in the words of God that God is "ONE".

Now In Christianity:

- Did God [The Father] say that God is three? No
- Did Jesus [The Son] Say that God is three? No
- Did The [Holy Spirit] say that God is three? No.

Then No X No X No = No (Mathematics)

"How" did they discover that God is "Three" entities? I think it is either, they saw it, they were told about it or.....? ???? ? ?????? (What else)? "Made It"

haha, let me pretend I'm a Christian or better...an athiest. Here's how I'd reply:
"Let's be practical.
Who said Prophet Mohammed was a prophet in the first place? Can you prove it? Did you get a message from God telling you his final prophet was Mohammed or you based your opinion on Mohammed's testimonial? In fact, can you even prove there are angels and jinn around you? How can you be so sure anyhow that the Qura'n is not altered? Did God PERSONALLY tell you so? Did you SEE God to know he is there?
You have no answers to any of those questions.
You have invented your own religion. And thus your faith is absoloutely baseless."

How did they discover it?
The same way we discovered Mohammed PBUH was a prophet.
Not very hard to comprehend.

IceTea, check out:
John 10:30
Philippians 2:8
I Timothy 3:16

They sound pretty straight-forward to me regarding the Christian view of how God is like.

Those which sounds straight forward are made up ones.

Why do you think about John 5:30?

Meh, that's a stupid thing to say.
The Bible is a holy book not a coloring book.
You don't get to cherry-pick the parts you like.

Is the Bible the true word of God?

I can see that you cherry-pick because you refuse to comment on verse 5:30, which is straight forward.

You guys know that I am "fasting" from the internet for Lent, except Sundays...

I don't have a lot of time to engage in this dialogue.

But it warms the cockles of my heart that Threadlike and Shamsery are trying to look at things from a Christian perspective and understand it well before they get into the business of arguing with it.

I think this is wise. After all, even if you are trying to persuade Christians to become Muslim, you need to understand what they are really SAYING, and understand how and why they THINK.

If you just set up a straw man and knock it down, you might persuade a few people who don't know much. But from the rest of us, all you will get is rolled eyes and reactions of "they don't have a clue what they are talking about."

I read a LOT of refutations of Islam. But it helps me a lot AS A CHRISTIAN, not just to take that as the end of the matter, but to try to understand how MUSLIMS think about it... Lately, the issue of Mohammed and sin or mistake, etc., was very helpful.

No sense "winning" arguments just by pretending that your opponent is dumber or sillier than he really is...

So to my way of thinking, the open-minded approach of Threadlike and Shamsery does more in the end for their deen than anything else...

That DOESN'T mean that there isn't a place for Brother Haroun's honest questions or for Brother Ice Tea's oxlike stubbornness either! :)

IceTea, if you have time to find verses you have time to read about them...
http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?b=43&c=5&com=mhc

I am not willing to prove Christians WRONG or FAITHLESS.
I am not willing to prove YOU wrong or faithless.
I try to find a common word...You try to prove everybody else wrong.
If you have not realized that yet, it is time you do.
For these reasons and for many others, I do not cherry-pick things from holy books to suit whatever my way of thinking and faith may be and denounce everything that contradicts with it. It is offensive to ME as it is offensive to those who believe in that holy book.

You don't have to prove anything because all the proofs in the Quran, for example.

Christians believe that Jesus is God, the Quran says he is a messenger which means he is 100% human and not 100% human/God.

Christians believe in the Trinity, the Quran rejects it.

Christians believe that God incarnate and became Jesus while the Quran says that Jesus birth was a miracle like the creation of Adam.

Christians believe that Jesus is THE word, while the Quran says Jesus pbuh is a word from Allah.

Is that offensive to you?

I think Threadlike is not offended by your conclusions so much as by the approach you take to understanding the way other people think.

You are great at sticking to your religion and I believe you are 100% honest about it. And you are often good at explaining it. I like that.

You are extremely poor at understanding how other people think, though. So poor that when you talk about Christian scriptures, instead of Islamic ones, it seems like you aren't even trying to see what it's like to think differently.

Myself? I don't mind. Not every person is good at everything.

But I WOULD mind if a Christian misrepresented Islam as badly as you misrepresent Christianity. So I can see how some Muslims might think that way....

As far as the answer to thread:

I'm out of time! :p

Gotta go do Lent for another week.

But the short answer is: Yes.

Creator of the stars of night,
Thy people’s everlasting light,
Jesu, Redeemer, save us all,
And hear Thy servants when they call

It's a beautiful hymn...you can hear it here:

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/c/r/crestars.htm

Off to fast and pray...or something like that. I'll remember you good folks and you remember me too! :)

Jeff, those are every muslim conclusions including Thread, and we didn't make this things up it's all stated in the holy Quran (the book of truth).

I have presented Islam and Christianity views above, do you disagree with the Christian part (e.g. don't you believe Jesus is God thus you are worshiping him)?

You don't have to prove anything because all the proofs in the Quran, for example.

Christians believe that Jesus is God, the Quran says he is a messenger which means he is 100% human and not 100% human/God.

Christians believe in the Trinity, the Quran rejects it.

Christians believe that God incarnate and became Jesus while the Quran says that Jesus birth was a miracle like the creation of Adam.

Christians believe that Jesus is THE word, while the Quran says Jesus pbuh is a word from Allah.

Is that offensive to you?

No what's offensive to me is that you are going into scriptures and saying, 'I'll take this, I'll leave that...And you HAVE to agree with it'.
Cut off the attitude and I won't be offended at all...And neither would you be offending a religious scripture...

The Quran mentioned that these scriptures have been changed by people, do you feel offended about it.

Muslims accept what doesn't contradict with the Quran in previous scriptures and reject what contradict with the Quran. Same method as I take this and leave that.

For example verse John 5:30 saying that Jesus being sent by Allah and on his own can do nothing, you can see that this is same as Muslims believe with regard to prophet Jesus pbuh . You are free to reject it though :D

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/33814183_bc322c7343.jpg