"I am the vine; you are the branches. * If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.* If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.* (John 15:5-6)"*

Does this means Apostates are to be burned alive according to the new testament?

wudjab, are you saying that verse does not exist in the NT?

Can't you read English.

I agreed with you 100%.

We thrown apostates onto a bonfire and burn them to death.

This is the difference, when a muslim asks question Christian members don't answer while if they ask questions about Islam we answer them immediately.

because it's astounding that you can take the word burning literally. jesus was comparing it to a vine.
if you ever been in a vinyard, here's how it goes...
the bad leaves get cut off and burnt.
so jesus used the phrase 'he is LIKE' which means he was making a simile.

Is there anything that is taken literally in the Bible?

Is there anything that is taken literally in the Bible?
Jesus spoke with stories and parables.
of course when some one tells you 'i'm gonna cut you out of my will like a farmer cuts his weeds and throws them in the fire', that word like will tell you that i am not meaning to burn you.

Teabag is really pissed off that Christianity is a religion of peace.

Shai, what does these Bible quotes mean?


"He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.* (From the NIV Bible, Luke 22:36)"

"Do not suppose that I [Jesus] have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.* (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 10:34)"

Thalia, that is from your own Bible, I didn't wrote it myself in case you are wondering.

She answered you. What more are you looking for.

PS. Stay focussed. Stay focussed. Stay focussed.

We are discussing burning apostates here.

Thalia, that is from your own Bible, I didn't wrote it myself in case you are wondering.
It's ok. I wasn't wondering.

Got any more intriguing questions for us? :hyper:

One question at a time.

Waiting for the answer.

We've already answered you.

So what was the next question ?

You know Ice's question is actually pretty interesting, the second one I mean, regarding the two verses. I mean, take off the 'crouching tiger hidden dragon' attitude and you'd get a pretty nice question lol
I remember asking Jeff once on this particular verse, Matthew 10:34...
He outlined that Jesus was implying that following his path is following a path that may force people to go against their families, their own brethern in order to stay true and pure to their faith. Therefore it's a symbolic 'sword'.

Sounded a good enough explanation for me...

You know Ice's question is actually pretty interesting, the second one I mean, regarding the two verses. I mean, take off the 'crouching tiger hidden dragon' attitude and you'd get a pretty nice question lol
I remember asking Jeff once on this particular verse, Matthew 10:34...
He outlined that Jesus was implying that following his path is following a path that may force people to go against their families, their own brethern in order to stay true and pure to their faith. Therefore it's a symbolic 'sword'.

Sounded a good enough explanation for me...
Exactly.

Jesus used alot of symbolism when he spoke. Taking every word at face value when you are told about the symbolism, is..

just
being
stubborn.

;)

But then, if your source of questions on Christianity are islamic propagation sites, that's to be expected.

Exactly.

Jesus used alot of symbolism when he spoke. Taking every word at face value when you are told about the symbolism, is..



and how do you know it's symbolism. it seems pretty clear in here:

"Do not suppose that I [Jesus] have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.* (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 10:34)"

i guess swords are used to fight with and suppose what threadliked said is right according to jeff, but when he says: I did not come to bring peace this excludes peace from his message, doesnt it ?

You're right !

We're supposed to take up swords and go an slaughter the people around us.

Seems like we'll just be getting sarcastic answers with Jeff being away...

You're right !

We're supposed to take up swords and go an slaughter the people around us.

yah 'slaughter thy neighbour' :p

"I did not come to bring peace" doesn't sound like symobolic.

Or maybe it's a translation error!

Anyone can check the original Aramaic version?

Seems like we'll just be getting sarcastic answers with Jeff being away...
You know, only Jeff has that kind of patience, where he can keep providing answers to the child who keeps asking the same questions over and over and over and over. ;)

I know you're a recent member PIB, but if you look at just the past year, Jeff has painstakingly tackled threads like this and funnily enough, they keep reappearing. One starts to wonder if either those asking (again and again) have trouble reading English or like to do it because they have no intention on understanding - their only intention is to attack.

And there is nothing to be attacked on really. But they think there is. So when it says.. "Like a leaf cast into the fire.." or whatever, you get stupid threads asking if we throw people into a bonfire. :hyper: How can you NOT make fun of that? It's just too easy.

yah 'slaughter thy neighbour' :p
See.. you make a great point.

Now go love thy neighbour. Just don't let your wife catch you. ;)

Well...the way I read the verse...it seems symbolic...not literal...

Just my two cents :sunsmile:

Thalia, how can you make fun of your own book. Those quotes are from your Bible and you should be able to explain them to a non Christian members.

Now let us see, what does "I did not come to bring peace means".

Stay on topic.

Thalia, how can you make fun of your own book. Those quotes are from your Bible and you should be able to explain them to a non Christian members.

Now let us see, what does "I did not come to bring peace means".

Stay on topic.
I know what it means. You know what it means.

The 'fun' is on you, my infidel friend.

Come to the light ice-tea.. I pray for you to see the truth and convert to Christianity.. it is the only way for your salvation.

Well, with the vatican's embassador gone, someone has to do it! Right? :hyper:

You'll never be taken seriously ice tea, because you can't help makign it so clear that you don;t even read the posts people reply to you with. You even bore your fellow brothers. You couldn't even give TL a straight answer. I'm not expecting you to give ME one anytime soon..

So, let's have some fun. You play a game, we play another.

So:
Yes. You are right. He came to bring war.


Next?

Well...the way I read the verse...it seems symbolic...not literal...

Just my two cents :sunsmile:
Of course it is. ;)

Thalia, I'm serious I don't open threads for fun in religion sabla.

TL question was answered, check previous posts.

Of course it is. ;)

How can I did not come to bring peace be symbolic, can you clarify?

Thalia, I'm serious I don't open threads for fun in religion sabla.

TL question was answered, check previous posts.
no. not FOR fun but to MAKE fun.

There is nothing to Make fun about it.

Stay on topic, can you answer above question?

"I am the vine; you are the branches. * If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.* If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.* (John 15:5-6)"*

Does this means Apostates are to be burned alive according to the new testament?

I meant this verse is symbolic IceTea

Not the "I did not come to bring peace" one

Even if it's symbolic, doesn't sound like there is freedom of religion.

The verses before and after that one. (amazing how you always ask non-muslims to not butcher a verse but take it in it's context.. oh well)

32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.




If you think I'm going to explain it like explaining to a bunch of 4 year olds in elemntary school, you got another thing coming. lol

Read.
Understand.
Stop looking for verses in muslim anti-christianity sites, cos they make you look like a fool.

I'm glad you bring these arguments up. It always gives me time to look up, read and understand my faith a little better.

Thanks. :cute:

Even if it's symbolic, doesn't sound like there is freedom of religion.
Of course there is freedom of religion.

You choose your path. No one is going to force you to take the right one. But every religion believes IT is the TRUTH.

Every religion believes that if you don't follow it, something terrible is gonna happen to you.
That's got nothing to do with not having freedom.
Not having freedom is, "If you decide to walk away, we'll kill you".
The verse is saying, "If you decide to take the wrong path in life, nothing can save you."

Big difference.
But nice try.

I'm glad you bring these arguments up. It always gives me time to look up, read and understand my faith a little better.

Thanks. :cute:

You are welcome, see you are learning something.

I don't know what verses before and after will add to the quote, I did not come to bring peace.

Anyway, 35 is another interesting verse:

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Can you explain it Thalia? :)

But every religion believes IT is the TRUTH.



Do you believe there can be more than one TRUTH?

Right,

We build a great big bonfire and throw all the apostates in there.

In England that's called Guy Fawkes Day.


Guy Fawkes (13 April 1570 – 31 January 1606) sometimes known as Guido Fawkes, was a member of a group of Roman Catholic revolutionaries from England who planned to carry out the Gunpowder Plot.[1] The plot was an attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament, which would have displaced Protestant rule by killing King James I of England and the entire Protestant aristocracy, on 5 November 1605.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
Gunpowder Plot

The Gunpowder Plot of 1605, or the Powder Treason, as it was known at the time,[1] was a failed attempt by a group of provincial English Catholics to kill King James I of England and VI of Scotland, his family, and most of the Protestant aristocracy in a single attack by blowing up the Houses of Parliament during the State Opening on 5 November 1605. The conspirators had also planned to abduct the royal children, not present in Parliament, and incite a revolt in the Midlands.
The Gunpowder Plot was one of many unsuccessful assassination attempts against James I, and followed the Main Plot and Bye Plot of 1603. Some popular historians have put forward a debate about government involvement in the plot.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_Plot


Guy Fawkes Day
The anniversary of the famous Gunpowder Plot

November 5th marks the anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot, a conspiracy to blow up the English Parliament and King James I in 1605, the day set for the king to open Parliament. The anniversary was named after Guy Fawkes, the most famous of the conspirators.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/guyfawkes.html


Bonfire Night ·
On the night of November 5th, throughout Britain, we commemorate the capture of Guy Fawkes with bonfires and fireworks, and by burning an effigy of Guy.
http://www.bonefire.org/guy/index.php

See.. you make a great point.

Now go love thy neighbour. Just don't let your wife catch you. ;)

what wife? am still single :(

this is right, i guess jeff has the answers and i like his answers without sarcacism. i guess we better wait for him and wish him accepted Lent.

That would be a good policy.

Are you interested in converting ElRey ? I could put you in touch with a good missionary.

Come out of the darkness El, come into the light.

That would be a good policy.

Are you interested in converting ElRey ? I could put you in touch with a good missionary.

Come out of the darkness El, come into the light.
can he be an apostate instead of a catholic please?

That would be a good policy.

Are you interested in converting ElRey ? I could put you in touch with a good missionary.

Come out of the darkness El, come into the light.

can he be an apostate instead of a catholic please?

more i ask and know about other religions ( including christianity ) i respect and love Islam more and thank God for being Muslim :)

Same here.

The more I learn about Islam and the more you guys attack Christianity, the stronger my faith gets.

Thanks a ton, I really appreciate it.

Same here.

The more I learn about Islam and the more you guys attack Christianity, the stronger my faith gets.

Thanks a ton, I really appreciate it.

i don't think i have ever attacked christianity ( correct me if am wrong ).
yes i asked questions about christianity and thanks to jeff, thalia, minerva and marianna they were here to answer and they all know, i guess, that my questions were only asking for information with a little debating to get convinced..


and am glad you respect your religion, keep it up

more i ask and know about other religions ( including christianity ) i respect and love Islam more and thank God for being Muslim :)
reyo i was joking ....because the burning of the papostates or whatever they are is funny. i dont' know how a figure of speech got taken literally.