As per the holy bible he did indeed drink wine which presumably was an alcoholic beverage

So what's the permissible amount & what's considered moderation?

And is it only applicable to wine or other alcoholic drinks as well?

Well even at the start of Islam, Alcohol wasn't forbidden till a later stage so it's not surprising that Jesus (pbuh) used to drink.

Jesus not only drank it, he MADE it.

At a wedding in Canan, the wine ran out.. and Jesus turned water to wine.

*looks at glass of water on desk ..*

We don't have laws about alcohol. We don't have Divine Laws about anything except unchangeable moral things.

But drunkenness is a violation of the moral law, so we are not allowed to do it.

Alcohol in moderation is a good thing:

He watereth the hills from his chambers: the earth is satisfied with the fruit of thy works.

14He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

15And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Psalm 104.

Stop drinking only water, but have a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

1 Timothy 5: 23.

Jesus' First Miracle

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
2
Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding.
3
When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine."
4
4 (And) Jesus said to her, "Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come."
5
His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
6
Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons.
7
Jesus told them, "Fill the jars with water." So they filled them to the brim.
8
Then he told them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter." So they took it.
9
And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom
10
and said to him, "Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now."
11
Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.

John 2: 1-11.

Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28
for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
29
I tell you, from now on I shall not drink this fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father."

Luke 22: 27-29.

They didn't really HAVE any other alcoholic beverages in those days in the Eastern Mediterranean. So they question of, is it okay to drink beer never arose.

If wine, why not beer?

But don't get drunk.

Jesus not only drank it, he MADE it.

At a wedding in Canan, the wine ran out.. and Jesus turned water to wine.

*looks at glass of water on desk ..*

Maybe it was just juice? Makes no sense to me that a Prophet gets people drunk at a wedding! Grape juice has a lot of benefits, making such juice makes sense, logically, but not juice with alcohol!

Maybe there were limits to how much one can drink? Age restrictions perhaps?

I hope you don't mind my ignorance, I am just trying to make sense out of this. Alcohol is bad for individuals, families and for the community, then why drink alcohol?

Maybe it was just juice? Makes no sense to me that a Prophet gets people drunk at a wedding! Grape juice has a lot of benefits, making such juice makes sense, logically, but not juice with alcohol!

Maybe there were limits to how much one can drink? Age restrictions perhaps?

I hope you don't mind my ignorance, I am just trying to make sense out of this. Alcohol is bad for individuals, families and for the community, then why drink alcohol?
No. Wine is not bad.

Like everything else, what is bad is abuse. That's were the problems come in.

Is sex bad? No. But sexual abuse is.
Is medicine bad? No. But abusing from drugs is.

From my personal point of view when it comes to wine:
I can have 2 maybe 3 glasses and be fit to drive. But most of the time, I wouldn't take that risk. If I'm going to drink, I'll get someone else to drive. That is being sensible.

It's the same with medicine. If the medicine is going to make me drowsy, I won't take a chance and drive.

It's all about the choices you make.
You can choose to never drink a drop. I have friends who don't drink. That's their choice.

But to not have a medicine that contains alcohol is a little silly to me.

Yep, non-alchoholic alchohol.

Most churches don't use 'wine' now a days, it's juice.

Wine is good for health you know?

Most churches don't use 'wine' now a days, it's juice.

Wine is good for health you know?
I'm not sure about that. Afaik, the churches here use wine..

Most churches don't use 'wine' now a days, it's juice.

Wine is good for health you know?
no..hahaha
churches use wine.
and it's potent wine as well.
but they only take a sip.
once someone gave me a bottle of altar wine.
it's amazing.
Jesus drank wine. Big deal. So do we.
When I meet Jesus i'll take a couple of bottles with me and I'll ask him what his favourite grape is.

No. Wine is not bad.

Like everything else, what is bad is abuse. That's were the problems come in.

Is sex bad? No. But sexual abuse is.
Is medicine bad? No. But abusing from drugs is.

From my personal point of view when it comes to wine:
I can have 2 maybe 3 glasses and be fit to drive. But most of the time, I wouldn't take that risk. If I'm going to drink, I'll get someone else to drive. That is being sensible.

It's the same with medicine. If the medicine is going to make me drowsy, I won't take a chance and drive.

It's all about the choices you make.
You can choose to never drink a drop. I have friends who don't drink. That's their choice.

But to not have a medicine that contains alcohol is a little silly to me.

I like the way you think, but your examples are irrelevant to be honest:

Drugs (not the medicine) are good, just like alcohol, what is bad is the abuse of drugs? Having multiple sex partners is good, but abusing the number is bad? Eating poison is good, but abusing the amount is bad?

You can't compare alcohol to sex or medicine. And if you do, you must clear the factor used for the comparison. Sex is not bad, you want to have sex 10 times a day, good luck. Why is that bad? But can I drink 10 liters of wine?

As for medicine, they are products produced carefully and used under strict supervision. Alcohol is found everywhere and there are no restrictions on how to get them (prescriptions). Unless you regulate the sales and consumption of wine or any other alcohol, think about dropping that argument.

but they only take a sip

That's why I thought it's juice :p

Most churches don't use 'wine' now a days, it's juice.

Wine is good for health you know?

Too much of something rebounds it on you..

i think what thalia said is that going above your limit of alcohol is bad. any addiction is bad. anything that makes you behave stupid is bad. anything that's bad for you is bad.
a glass of red wine is recommended by doctors as well.
if anymore than that makes you behave like an idiot, then stick to one, or less.
or if your religion tells you not to consume alcohol, then by all means, do not consume alcohol. it's not for you.

I like the way you think, but your examples are irrelevant to be honest:

Drugs (not the medicine) are good, just like alcohol, what is bad is the abuse of drugs? Having multiple sex partners is good, but abusing the number is bad? Eating poison is good, but abusing the amount is bad?

You can't compare alcohol to sex or medicine. And if you do, you must clear the factor used for the comparison. Sex is not bad, you want to have sex 10 times a day, good luck. Why is that bad? But can I drink 10 liters of wine?

As for medicine, they are products produced carefully and used under strict supervision. Alcohol is found everywhere and there are no restrictions on how to get them (prescriptions). Unless you regulate the sales and consumption of wine or any other alcohol, think about dropping that argument.
I'm not comparing. I am giving examples of how abuse is always bad. Because it is abuse. Simple.

Alcohol in moderation is actually good for the health, and I'm talking 1-2 drinks a day and not more. Anything excessive is bad and can be considered as addiction or alcoholism.


Prost....



Jim Breuer - Stomach Party

Exactly.

If you're not allowed to drink, don't.

Who should I believe? A couple of guys and a girl with a stand-up comedy as their source? Or believe tons of research results (done in Christian alcohol drinking countries)?

What alcohol does to your mind and body? (http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/healthy_living/lifestyle/alcohol/alcohol3.html)

Breastfeeding mothers who drink alcohol do not produce as much milk for their babies, a US study says. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4415903.stm)

Now there might be health benefits, as some sources may suggest, but in general, the negative effects far exceed the good ones. Also, lets be realistic and thing of the overall good:

Why would we allow something that we know have destroyed lives, and will continue to do so, in so many different ways?

Anyhow, all that bothers me is how can a Prophet (PBUH) encourage people to drink something, even if it has some minor health benefits that can be found elsewhere, and that also without strict guidelines and rules, when its obvious it degrades how people behave, act and eventually become.

a stand-up comedy as their source?

Easy man, that clip is there to spice up things a little and not to prove a point. It's a joke!

What I stated above about alcohol consumption is based on studies, yet I don't encourage anyone "else" to consume alcohol since in general, it does more harm than good.

Easy man, that clip is there to spice up things a little and not to prove a point. It's a joke!

What I stated above about alcohol consumption is based on studies, yet I don't encourage anyone "else" to consume alcohol since in general, it does more harm than good.
..more harm than good - in excessive amounts...

But there have been studies shown that certain wines helps to promote good health......again in moderation. As a Catholic I have always been taught that gluttony which includes overeating and drunkeness is a sin. So those of you out there who eat like well...pigs (excuse the analogy) are being gluttons for doing this. Anything that is done in over excess is considered a sin. And as far as what Jesus did I don't see a problem with it.

..more harm than good - in excessive amounts...

Obviously, most of the people who drink have no control over their consumption and exceed the limits by far.

Why would we allow something that we know have destroyed lives, and will continue to do so, in so many different ways?

You mean like smoking?

Say, cigarettes or hookahs? Ever met an Arab that DOESNT smoke?

Obviously, most of the people who drink have no control over their consumption and exceed the limits by far.
Do you know most people who drink?

I'd say in the west, 98% drink alcohol. You know all these people?

Most people have a glass of wine in a restaurant.. or at the table at home. A shot of whiskey, by the tv watching a film.. Most people do not go over the limits.. what ever that means. Some people's limits are different than other's.

More than 5 glasses of wine puts me to sleep. Some poeple will consider that a blessing. :hyper:

For me two glasses are my max and I won't drink and drive. Of course there are alcoholics but this is not the norm in the West. That would be ludicrious to think so.

In regards to Jesus changing water into wine there is more to it than just that fact and why this is being glossed over is beyond me.

I don't want to throw mud.. but I can't keep my tongue tied on this..

In my whole life of partying and drinking.. the worst, ABSOLUTELY worst drinkers I ever came across were arabs. Muslims.

Like children let loose in a candy shop, they would buy loads of the cheapest ever, most disgusting, wine (Lachryma Vitis ..min ;) ) with the sole purpose of getting drunk as a skunk. Drink until they pass out. That was the whole reason they drank.

And of course, they can't handle the drink.. which is why so many get in trouble with the law.

Alcohol is part of the culture here. A table is set with water and wine glasses. It's part of a meal. People don't simply drink to pass out. They drink because it tastes good, relaxes and unwinds you. Much like cigarettes I think. (I don't smoke, so I wouldn't know)..

a glass of red wine is recommended by doctors as well.


Do you think the same is applied to a glass of vodka?

Wine in small quantities is beneficial for health due it's cardioprotective & antioxidant properties, but whether its the Polyphenols from the grapes or its the alcohol itself, the former seems to overweight the latter

Because I am not aware of any health care provider advising to consume vodka for example

But the topic here is, did Jesus (pbuh) drink alcoholic beverages & did he advise the same to his followers

It's not about alcohol being forbidden in other faiths

Who should I believe? A couple of guys and a girl with a stand-up comedy as their source? Or believe tons of research results (done in Christian alcohol drinking countries)?

What alcohol does to your mind and body? (http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/healthy_living/lifestyle/alcohol/alcohol3.html)

Breastfeeding mothers who drink alcohol do not produce as much milk for their babies, a US study says. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4415903.stm)

Now there might be health benefits, as some sources may suggest, but in general, the negative effects far exceed the good ones. Also, lets be realistic and thing of the overall good:

Why would we allow something that we know have destroyed lives, and will continue to do so, in so many different ways?

Anyhow, all that bothers me is how can a Prophet (PBUH) encourage people to drink something, even if it has some minor health benefits that can be found elsewhere, and that also without strict guidelines and rules, when its obvious it degrades how people behave, act and eventually become.


no breastfeeding mother should drink.
and alcohol in excess of the recommended daily units is bad.
and alcohol in moderate amounts if you never ever drank before is the worst.

Do you think the same is applied to a glass of vodka?

Wine in small quantities is beneficial for health due it's cardioprotective & antioxidant properties, but whether its the Polyphenols from the grapes or its the alcohol itself, the former seems to overweight the latter

Because I am not aware of any health care provider advising to consume vodka for example

But the topic here is, did Jesus (pbuh) drink alcoholic beverages & did he advise the same to his followers

It's not about alcohol being forbidden in other faiths
i don't know. jesus didn't give me a handbook on how to do everyday things *(like eating drinking and washing) . his teachings were on other matters.
i don't drink wine cos jesus drank it. i drink wine cos i like wine. it's got a variety of noses and tastes and accompanies my gatherings and meals nicely.
as to vodka whisky bourbon and the like....i drink them too. they are great especially when mixed.
i've never been in trouble because of alcohol. because i can drink responsibly.

I remember my ex (Omani) told me that his cousins would all gather during trips into the desert to camp and they would bring coolers of beer and hard liquor. The point being....people drink because they want to...not because they are being forced. And to point fingers at the West and say we are bad because of it means you are not looking at the other four fingers pointing back at yourself. To critize an entire culture because of this is wrong and to point out something in the bible which has moral connotations besides drinking the wine is being ignorant. There is much more to what Jesus did on that day than just making wine.

you can go to tunisia and barter a cheap bottle of whiskey for a leather jacket about twenty times the value of the scotch.

On the other hand you could just walk into any bar in Oman and discover who is actually abusing alcohol.

You mean like smoking?

Say, cigarettes or hookahs? Ever met an Arab that DOESNT smoke?

But remember, not all Arabs are best examples of Muslims, not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are good/real ones. :)

But remember, not all Arabs are best examples of Muslims, not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are good/real ones. :)
so a good muslim does not smoke and drink? smoking is forbidden too? i didn't know...

But remember, not all Arabs are best examples of Muslims, not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are good/real ones. :)

I know that, but this guy is saying "how could you not ban alcohol when you know its bad for you!!1".

Do you think he really cares about health? Course not. Its like the kid who's banned from eating sweets, trying to convince the other kids not to eat sweets. "Mommy says its bad for you!"

I know that, but this guy is saying "how could you not ban alcohol when you know its bad for you!!1".

Do you think he really cares about health? Course not. Its like the kid who's banned from eating sweets, trying to convince the other kids not to eat sweets. "Mommy says its bad for you!"
but sweets (or alcohol) aren't bad for you.
it's when you eat a kilo of halva (or two litres of wine) that's bad for you.

Well Jesus drank wine the night before he was crucified as well... that's called the Last Supper.

Please stick to the topic, off topics were and will be deleted

I am always amazed at why Muslims are so concerned about what other religions do.

If Islam tells you not to drink, don't.

Simple as that.

Jesus drank wine and shared it with all his friends.
And he told them 'drink this wine, it is my blood. do it amongst yourselves to commemorate my being with you' .(or something to that effect)
the early christians had a big goblet of wine and they used to pass it around, taking a sip each.
some gatherings, masses on a small scale, do that too.
sometimes during mass, the priest dips the bread in the wine and gives it for the mass-participant to eat.

The first religion to forbid alcohol is Islam, and as others mentioned, it didn't completely forbid it, it went through steps, alcohol wasn't forbidden in the beginning of Islam.
Thats why for Muslims, who were raised on the thought that drinking alcohol is a sin, knowing that the Bible records of Jesus, who is a Major Prophet according to Islam, drinking wine is awkward.

My personal opinion:
It doesn't really matter. Whether he drank it or not, he was doing it for a purpose and God only knows that, so I wouldn't bother myself with it!

The first religion to forbid alcohol is Islam, and as others mentioned, it didn't completely forbid it, it went through steps, alcohol wasn't forbidden in the beginning of Islam.
Thats why for Muslims, who were raised on the thought that drinking alcohol is a sin, knowing that the Bible records of Jesus, who is a Major Prophet according to Islam, drinking wine is awkward.

My personal opinion:
It doesn't really matter. Whether he drank it or not, he was doing it for a purpose and God only knows that, so I wouldn't bother myself with it!
it's forbidden for you, don't drink it.
it's not forbidden for me, so i can drink it. but not abuse it. the church has spoken many times against abuse of any form.
(even against over eating. one should not over eat, if you have any extra give it to who needs it)

What's the purpose of this thread?
We as Muslims know it wasn't banned until Islam...It's pretty clear.

so a good muslim does not smoke and drink? smoking is forbidden too? i didn't know...

yes it's forbidden, a good muslim, i believe, is the one who keeps himself/ herself from suspected things. wine is clearly forbidden in Islam and smoking is forbidden to by Islamic scholars because it's bad for health and can kill. it's what we call in Islam Qeyas ( measurement ). they concluded smoking as forbidden since it causes addiction like drinking.

I am always amazed at why Muslims are so concerned about what other religions do.

If Islam tells you not to drink, don't.

Simple as that.


i totally agree with this, whoever wants to drink, smoke or anything it's a personal choice specially if it's allowed by their religion.
we shoudln't care.

it's forbidden for you, don't drink it.
it's not forbidden for me, so i can drink it. but not abuse it. the church has spoken many times against abuse of any form.
(even against over eating. one should not over eat, if you have any extra give it to who needs it)
I'm not saying otherwise
totally agree with you!

I'm not saying otherwise
totally agree with you!
yes i wasn't referring to you. i was referring to whoever was shocked and horrored that jesus drank alcohol.

Alright, lets assume he did drink wine and highly recommended everybody else does, but how is it possible for wine to be blood? Can anyone explain?

We all know wine are made using fruits. Right? I didn't know wine has been flowing for thousands of years from a holy location?

I don't mean to be funny or make fun, but I am just trying to make sense of something that does not.

Alright, lets assume he did drink wine and highly recommended everybody else does, but how is it possible for wine to be blood? Can anyone explain?

We all know wine are made using fruits. Right? I didn't know wine has been flowing for thousands of years from a holy location?

I don't mean to be funny or make fun, but I am just trying to make sense of something that does not.

Neither did I actually.

Do you have a source for this "info"?

---------------------------------------------------------------

As for wine/blood.. afaik it is what we call 'symbolism'. They didn't ACTUALLY drink BLOOD! :rolleyes:

Thalia, what you asking a source for was a Q from me, notice the '?' at end :).

As for the symbolism, I must say, its not a very good one. If people were drinking Prophet Jesus's (PBUH) blood at that time, and before leaving them, he asks them to drink wine from now on, it would make more sense.

But this is no symbolism.

It is a matter of fact that both the old and new testaments have been modified and corrupted. I hope we don't discuss that here as there are many other threads. The wine part is corrupt for me, and if I am wrong, it still makes no sense why would a Prophet promote drinking alcohol for any reason :os!

Thalia, what you asking a source for was a Q from me, notice the '?' at end :).

As for the symbolism, I must say, its not a very good one. If people were drinking Prophet Jesus's (PBUH) blood at that time, and before leaving them, he asks them to drink wine from now on, it would make more sense.

But this is no symbolism.

It is a matter of fact that both the old and new testaments have been modified and corrupted. I hope we don't discuss that here as there are many other threads. The wine part is corrupt for me, and if I am wrong, it still makes no sense why would a Prophet promote drinking alcohol for any reason :os!
haha

ok so we finally find out why you really opened this thread..

and now know it's not worth the time I spent reading it.

Good day, pointy end of the bee.

But the topic here is, did Jesus (pbuh) drink alcoholic beverages & did he advise the same to his followers

Mother tongue of Jesus (Pbuh)Aramaic, am I correct?
Aramaic > Greek> Latin >English, if this the path , my question , what Jesus(Pbuh) said in his own Mother tongue ?
Did he mean it in metaphorically?
Wine > sarab in Hindi , Urdu and even in Bengali bear the same meaning.
There are many poem the word sarab are used metaphorically.
Are you acquainted with sarabunthahura?

thanks for the dictionary lesson shams.

haha

ok so we finally find out why you really opened this thread..

and now know it's not worth the time I spent reading it.

Good day, pointy end of the bee.

I swear I feel you've been drinking quite a lot of wine lately! Whats wrong with you dear? Concentrate please!

First you ask for a source because I asked a Question, and now you say I opened the thread. What thread?

"Quit Alcohol And HAVE HEALTHY BODY AND MIND"

:yes:

I swear I feel you've been drinking quite a lot of wine lately! Whats wrong with you dear? Concentrate please!

First you ask for a source because I asked a Question, and now you say I opened the thread. What thread?

"Quit Alcohol And HAVE HEALTHY BODY AND MIND"

:yes:
good one. lol

I find myself confusing you and hitman, could swear you are brothers sometimes.. :rolleyes:
Sorry about that. Swear I haven't touched a drop but when I do, it won't be some cheap wine crap, drunk for the sake of passing out. ;)

Now for your Q.

I didn't know wine has been flowing for thousands of years from a holy location?

That is not a question. You can't just make a statement, throw in a question mark and call it a question.

If that really is a question, you have your syntax all mixed up.
Or have you been drinking that 'funny juice'?
:hyper:

I believe he drank Al Mara3i (Al marai) apple juice from the holy grail.
*throws holy grail on Spirits face*
...
*****

I think Jews also claim that Prophet Loot (Lot) pbuh drank alcohol.


Medically speaking alcohol has deleterious effects on brain, face, heart, pancreas, joints, liver, stomach, legs, hands, and male virility. When women consume alcohol they suffer equally as much as the men and in addition they pass on the deleterious effects to the unborn babies. The babies suffer from what is called "the fetal alcohol syndrome."

Even after knowing the dangers and disadvantages of drinking, few Muslims and almost all of the Jews and Christians indulge in drinking alcohol.

A Muslim may wonder if Allah (SWT= The Mighty, The Exalted) prohibited wine and other intoxicating drinks to Muslims why did He not prohibit the same to the Christians and Jews through the Bible and Torah respectively. We are told in the Qur’an that the Jews and the Christians altered or misinterpreted their Scriptures to suit their needs and cravings. This article is intended to analyze their Scriptures to arrive at the truth.



CHRISTIANS

Christians drink because they believe that there is nothing wrong when one drinks moderately alcoholic beverages. They even support their claim through medical research, that moderate drinking is good for the heart. They support their claim by stating that Jesus Christ (PBUH= peace be upon him) made fermented wine at the wedding in Cana; That he approved of intoxicant drinks in the parable of new wine skins and old wine; That he admitted to drinking wine in describing his lifestyle (”eating and drinking”). And by instituting the cup of the Lord’s Supper he commanded its use until eternity. In otherwords for the Christians, Jesus's (PBUH) example and teachings form the belief and practice. Logically and rationally if wine was good for Jesus (PBUH) it is also good for his followers.

"The Biblical terms for wine (yayin in Hebrew and oinos in Greek) are used in Scripture to refer to the juice of the grape, whether fermented or unfermented. This significant finding discredits the popular claim that the Bible knows only fermented wine, which it approves when used moderately. The truth of the matter is that the Bible knows both fermented wine, which it disapproves, and unfermented grape juice, which it approves.

Some of the reasons Scripture condemns the use of alcoholic beverages are that they distort the perception of reality (Is 28:7; Prov 23:33); they impair the capacity to make moral, responsible decisions (Lev 10:9-11); they weaken moral sensitivities and inhibitions (Gen 9:21; 19:32; Hab 2:15; Is 5:11-12); they cause physical sickness (Prov 23:20-21; Hos 7:5; Is 19:14; Ps 60:3); and they disqualify for both civil and religious service (Prov 31:4-5; Lev 10:9-11; Ezek 44:23; 1 Tim 3:2-3; Titus 1:7-8)." (REF: S. Bacchiocchi. The Sobering Facts About New Testament Wine, Signs of the Times, January 1990)

"Contrary to popular opinion, in the ancient world the preservation of grape juice unfermented was a relatively simple process. It was accomplished by boiling down the juice to a syrup, or by separating the fermentable pulp from the juice of the grape by means of filtration, or by placing the grape juice in sealed jars which were immersed in a pool of cold water, or by fumigating the wine jars with sulphur before sealing them. The use of such techniques clearly indicates that the means of preserving grape juice without fermentation were known and used in the ancient world." (REF. Bacchiocchi, Ibid)

The Wedding at Cana

In the Bible (Revised Standard Version or RSV) in the book of John, Chapter 2 and verses 1-11, describe that Jesus (PBUH) his mother and his disciples were invited to a wedding at Cana in Galilee. Here Jesus (PBUH) shows a miracle by converting water into wine.

" When the steward of the feast tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from: the steward of the feast called the bridegroom, and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first; and when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” John 2: 10, 11.

Samuele Bacchiocchi (REF: S. Bacchiocchi. The Sobering Facts About New Testament Wine, Signs of the Times, January 1990, pp. 3-5 ) argues that "good wine" does not mean that it has a high alcoholic content.

He says Christians believe that the wine was fermented from grape juice and that the word “the best” (John 2: 10 NIV) is interpreted as “a high quality alcoholic wine.” He further states that the words “have drunk freely” does not mean that they were intoxicated from an overuse of fermented wine. According to Bacchiocchi the wine” used in the wedding at Cana was unfermented grape juice and that the Jews at that time knew how to preserve unfermented grape juice through the year. The expression “have drunk freely”, he says, “is used in the sense of satiation. It refers simply to the large quantity of wine generally consumed at a feast, without any reference to its intoxicating effects.”

One can read “In Cana, the disciples did not enjoy the new supply of wine but ‘believed in him’ who had made it (John 2: 11).” (The Broadman Bible commentary Vol. 9, 1970, p. 229).

“ And no one puts new wine into old “wineskins”; if he does, the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost, and so are the skins; but new wine is for fresh skins.”

Mark 2: 22



Christians interpret this verse to mean that Jesus (PBUH) is advising not to put “new wine into old wineskins.” This is rebuffed by Bacchiocchi by quoting Alexander B. Bruce (”The Synoptic Gospels” in The Expositor’s Greek Testament, Grand Rapids, 1956, p.500) “ Jesus was not thinking at all of fermented, intoxicating wine, but of must, a non-intoxicating beverage, which could be kept safely in new leather bottles, but not in old skins which had previously contained ordinary wine, because particles of albuminoid matter adhering to the kin would set up fermentation and develop gas with an enormous pressure.”

“ For John the Baptist (Yahya (AS)) has come eating no bread and drinking NO wine; and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!.'



Luke 7: 33,34 (RSV)

Again Christians believe that Jesus (PBUH), is admitting his ‘eating and drinking’ life style and they conclude that Jesus (PBUH), must be drinking alcoholic wine, otherwise he will not be called a “drunkard.” In counter argument, Bacchiocchi (Ibid) says “Jesus used the phrase “eating no bread and drinking no wine” to describe the life style of John the Baptist (Yahya (AS)) who was socially isolated, whereas Jesus describes his own life style as “ eating and drinking” meaning that Jesus lived a “life style free of social association.” “ The important point is in the words “Son of man has come eating and drinking” the word wine is missing. Hence if Jesus (PBUH) was a wine-drinker he could have repeated the word wine which he used in describing John the Baptist.

The word “drunkard” used against Jesus (PBUH) is a false accusation. Because on two occasions his adversaries said of him “you have a demon” (John 7:20., 8:118). Does it mean that Jesus (PBUH) had an evil spirit within him simply because his adversaries say so. Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet and his life style of self-denial is the proof.

The following verses refer to the Last Supper of Christ (PBUH):

“Drink of it, all of you for this is my blood of the cove*nant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of’ the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s Kingdom.”

Matthew 26: 28-29 (RSV).



“ And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant,

Which poured out for many. Truly, I say to you, I shall not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the Kingdom of’ God.”

Mark 14: 24-25 (RSV)

Christians believe that the wine used during the Last Supper was alcoholic because words “fruit of the vine” are interpreted as fermented wine. Secondly they assume that during Passover time Jews drink only fermented wine. Bacchiocchi (Ibid) says “Fermented wine is not the natural fruit of the vine but the unnatural fruit of fermentation and decay. The Jewish historian Josephus, who was a contemporary of the apostles, explicitly calls the three clusters of grapes freshly squeezed in a cup by Pharaoh’s cupbearer “the fruit of the vine.” Thus the phrase was used to designate the sweet unfermented juice of the grape…. Christ could hardly have commanded “all” of his followers through the ages to drink the cup if it contained alcoholic wine. There are some to whom alcohol in any form is very harmful. We cannot conceive of Christ bending over to bless in grateful prayer a cup containing alcoholic wine which the Scripture warns us not to look at (Prov 23:31). A cup that intoxicates is a cup of cursing and not "the cup of blessing" (1 Cor 10:16); it is "the cup of demons" and not "the cup of the Lord" (1 Cor 10:21); it is a cup that cannot fittingly symbolize the incorruptible and "precious blood of Christ" (1 Peter 1:18-19). This gives us reason to believe that the cup He "blessed" and gave to His disciples did not contain any "fermented thing" prohibited by Scripture."



JEWS

Jews are no exception and consumption of alcohol is prohibited for them also. According to Mosaic Law no fermented beverages are allowed during the Passover feast.

“Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread; On the first day you shall put away leaven out of your houses, for if any one eats what is leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel.”

Exodus 12: 15 (RSV)

“Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, and on the seventh day there shall be a feast to the Lord. Unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days; no leavened bread shall be seen with you, and no leaven shall be seen with you in all territory.”

Exodus 13: 6-7 (RSV)

As we can see there is no mention of wine or any fermented drinks in the Mosaic Law cited above.

Bacchiocchi (Ibid) supports the view that Jews are prohibited from drinking alcohol and he says “The Talmud prohibits drinking alcohol to the accompaniment of musical instruments at festive occasions such as weddings. This prohibition is confirmed by later testimony of the rabbis. For example S.M. Isaac, an eminent nineteenth-century rabbi and editor of The Jewish Messenger says, “ The Jews do not, in their feasts for sacred purposes, including the marriage feast, ever use any kind of fermented drinks. In their oblations and libations, both private and public they employ the fruit of the is, fresh grapes-unfermented grape juice, and raisins, as the symbol of benediction. Fermentation is to them always a symbol of corruption." Though Rabbi Isaac's statement is not quite accurate, since Jewish sources are not unanimous on the kind of wine to be used at sacred festivals, it still does indicate that some Jews used unfermented wine at wedding feasts.

I personally think this thread has worn itself out. :angry:

Jesus loves you teabag, have a beer.

i think in the story of noah, noah got drunk and one of his sons made fun of him.
that was way before the time of J.C

As per the holy bible he did indeed drink wine which presumably was an alcoholic beverage

So what's the permissible amount & what's considered moderation?

And is it only applicable to wine or other alcoholic drinks as well?

Maybe it was just juice? Makes no sense to me that a Prophet gets people drunk at a wedding! Grape juice has a lot of benefits, making such juice makes sense, logically, but not juice with alcohol!

Maybe there were limits to how much one can drink? Age restrictions perhaps?

I hope you don't mind my ignorance, I am just trying to make sense out of this. Alcohol is bad for individuals, families and for the community, then why drink alcohol?

I think Jews also claim that Prophet Loot (Lot) pbuh drank alcohol.

i think in the story of noah, noah got drunk and one of his sons made fun of him.
that was way before the time of J.C


drinking alcohol is forbidden by Allah swt to all prophets pbut and to all nations that's include Jesus, Loot and Noah.

what it mentioned in the Bible regarding Jesus pbuh drank wine it could mean merely he drank grape juice ie without alcohol.


I like the explanation of Dr Bruce Lackey, a Christian scholar on this issue:

(Bruce Lackey (1930-1988) taught at Tennessee Temple (Chattanooga, Tennessee) for nineteen years and was Dean of the Bible School from 1965 until the early 1980s. He pastored the Lakewood Baptist Church of Chattanooga for eight years, and pastored two other churches before that. During the last few years of his life, he traveled as a Bible conference speaker and authored several books)


DID JESUS PBUH MAKE ALCOHOLIC WINE?

Jesus did not drink or make alcoholic wine. Here are ten proofs from Scripture

THE FIRST REASON IS BECAUSE OF HIS HOLY NATURE

A SECOND REASON: HE WOULD NOT CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE.

THE THIRD REASON IS THAT LEV. 10:9-11 COMMANDS THE PRIEST OF GOD, "DO NOT DRINK WINE NOR STRONG DRINK

THE FOURTH REASON IS FOUND IN A PASSAGE WHICH WE HAVE ALREADY CONSIDERED: PR. 31:4-5 PROHIBITS KINGS AND PRINCES FROM DRINKING ALCOHOLIC WINE OR ANY OTHER STRONG DRINK. IF THEY HAD DONE SO, THEIR JUDGMENT WOULD HAVE BEEN PERVERTED.

REASON FIVE: CHRIST DID NOT COME TO MOCK OR DECEIVE PEOPLE

REASON SIX: HE DID NOT COME TO SEND PEOPLE TO HELL

REASON SEVEN: CHRIST DID NOT COME TO CAST A STUMBLINGBLOCK BEFORE ANYONE

THE EIGHTH REASON: JOHN 2, THE MIRACLE OF TURNING WATER INTO WINE, DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT IT BE ALCOHOLIC

REASON NINE IS FOUND IN THE SAME PASSAGE: THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN GLORY FROM MAKING DRUNK PEOPLE DRUNKER

the tenth reason: making drunk people drunker would not have caused his disciples to believe more strongly on him

source (http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/didjesus.htm)


so, Minerva and Thalia give yourselves a break and understand your religion properly, and stop abusing yourselves by drinking alcohol it's forbidden in your religion as well.

thanks for the dictionary lesson shams.

Apologizes, I am not try to teaching any one.
This is my curiosity.
I wish to learn.

What Jesus (Pbuh) said by his mouth?
What was the exact pronounce (verbatim) of Jesus about wine?
Can you or can any one quote please?

Apologizes, I am not try to teaching any one.
This is my curiosity.
I wish to learn.

What Jesus (Pbuh) said by his mouth?
What was the exact pronounce (verbatim) of Jesus about wine?
Can you or can any one quote please?
he didn't tell us how to hold our wine glass or give us wine tasting lessons.
all we know about his life is that he shared wine with his mates.
and that he spoke many times against excesses. so having a drink is cool, cos you are like Jesus. but getting drunk isn't and you are sinning.

Agree with Minerva....and we have talked over indulgences to death. Gluttony is a sin period. Food, alcohol, sex whatever you allow yourself to be greedy in these areas 'tis a sin plain and simple a sin.

all we know about his life is that he shared wine with his mates.
.

So you believe your God drinks wine?

This all reminded me of the story of Prophet Mohammed :PBUH:, when the angel Gabriel gave him a glass of wine and a glass of milk, and asked him to choose.

The Prophet :PBUH: chose the milk. Gabriel said: You have chosen the ... Fi6rah/Human Nature. If you chose the wine, then your Ummah will go astray (Off the path of God).

Al Hamdulillah.

So you believe your God drinks wine?
not only that, but he can also make it.
He's a clever God.

If you believe that your God drink, sleep, etc then he is not true God because there is nothing like God. God is not a human being.

Why oh why are we still going at this?????????????????????????????????????????

Right now I'm watching a debate. The guest, who is a Christian priest replies to the presenter's question: Do you have freedom in the food you eat in your country?

“If you are talking about wine. There are clear verses in the bible talking about the forbidding of Alcohol, and they are very clear, so no, we do not have any problem in getting the food we want. And even Muslims drink."

Dr. Suwaidan: "That's true. But when a Muslim drinks, he knows what he is doing is forbidden. But a Christian drinks it while believing it is lawful."

Priest: "That is true. But it is clearly written in the holy scriptures that it is forbidden."

Then they talk about how statues are forbidden also, but they still make statues.

Right now I'm watching a debate. The guest, who is a Christian priest replies to the presenter's question: Do you have freedom in the food you eat in your country?

“If you are talking about wine. There are clear verses in the bible talking about the forbidding of Alcohol, and they are very clear, so no, we do not have any problem in getting the food we want. And even Muslims drink."

Dr. Suwaidan: "That's true. But when a Muslim drinks, he knows what he is doing is forbidden. But a Christian drinks it while believing it is lawful."

Priest: "That is true. But it is clearly written in the holy scriptures that it is forbidden."

Then they talk about how statues are forbidden also, but they still make statues.
Did he say where it is clearly forbidden to drink?

Also, statues are not forbidden. It is forbidden to WORSHIP a statue. A stone or marble or wooden OBJECT. To worship an image itself.

One has to keep in mind that christianity and symbolism go hand in hand. For a believer of a religion that forbids any kind of symbolism and is meant to be taken word for word, it might be a little bit difficult for them to truly comprehend this.

I haven't read all the replies yet, I just read the first few replies from STING and Thalia, so I'll base my reply on those:

I've asked about this before, and the answer I got was: It's okay to drink as long as you don't get drunk.

But, the missionary in our church says that you can not tell when you're drunk, is it when you start to say non-sense things? Is it when you start to walk from side to side? Is it when you throw up? Or is it when you lose conscious?
That's why he says it's better not to drink at all, I, personally, haven't drank anything (alcoholic drinks, that is) for the past one and a half years now, not because I believe it's bad, but because I like resisting temptation :)

I like the comparison between sex and alcohol :D

1. I'm a virgin.
2. I believe that it's not wrong.
3. STING: Having sex 10 times a day? Sounds cool, but crazy.
4. UnKnown: Thanks for the vid, AMAZING!

He did not say which verses, because there was not much time left on the program, but the other priest agreed.

He did not say which verses, because there was not much time left on the program, but the other priest agreed.
That's a shame, then. Cause there really is no point in claiming things like that without quoting evidence to support the claim. right? ;)

And I trusted him ... :no:

Well, I really wished he would bring the verses, from the bottom of my heart.

I haven't read all the replies yet, I just read the first few replies from STING and Thalia, so I'll base my reply on those:

I've asked about this before, and the answer I got was: It's okay to drink as long as you don't get drunk.

But, the missionary in our church says that you can not tell when you're drunk, is it when you start to say non-sense things? Is it when you start to walk from side to side? Is it when you throw up? Or is it when you lose conscious?
That's why he says it's better not to drink at all, I, personally, haven't drank anything (alcoholic drinks, that is) for the past one and a half years now, not because I believe it's bad, but because I like resisting temptation :)

I like the comparison between sex and alcohol :D

1. I'm a virgin.
2. I believe that it's not wrong.
3. STING: Having sex 10 times a day? Sounds cool, but crazy.
4. UnKnown: Thanks for the vid, AMAZING!
Welcome to E. Sabla. Haven't seen you around much and this is my first reply to you. :D

When is one drunk?

Most countries stipulate a limit of consumption when it comes to driving. Meaning, there is a point which makes you unfit to drive, because reaction times are slowed down. (this happens also with some medication).. so staying within that limit is the best way to enjoy a drink and staying away from drunkeness at the same time.

For example, a glass or two of wine with the evening meal will definately not bring you to a state of drunkenes..

That's a shame, then. Cause there really is no point in claiming things like that without quoting evidence to support the claim. right? ;)

But you believe the laws of Moses were canceled, so why are you seaching for the quote regarding alcohol. Isn't there a verse about eating pork also in the Bible?

And I trusted him ... :no:

Well, I really wished he would bring the verses, from the bottom of my heart.
This is similar to the hijab argument where some clerics say it is not a requirement. You don't believe them because the absolute complete majority disagree strongly. You would want to see their sources. no?

I personally have never ever heard of alcohol being prohibited in my religion. Gluttony, yes.

But you believe the laws of Moses were canceled, so why are you seaching for the quote regarding alcohol. Isn't there a verse about eating pork also in the Bible?
Why are you asking me about eating pork when you just said I believe the laws of Moses where fulfilled by Jesus?

:D
shoo shoo! Go away!

:hyper:

For example, a glass or two of wine with the evening meal will definately not bring you to a state of drunkenes..

Not all people the same, so better to cut the root of evil. What will you gain from drinking anyway, drink water or juice better.

Not all people the same, so better to cut the root of evil. What will you gain from drinking anyway, drink water or juice better.
But if you overdrink juice you'll get fat and get diabtetes.

Better to cut the root of evil.

Icetea. Drink water ONLY.

Why are you asking me about eating pork when you just said I believe the laws of Moses where fulfilled by Jesus?

:D
shoo shoo! Go away!

:hyper:

Because you are asking about the Bible quote which prohibt drinking alcohol.

I think we have established in the other thread that fulfil means apply or put it in effect.

And I gave you the new boss example but you refused to reply to that post.

Hehe, well, that's because most of my posts are in the IT sections :D

I know that there are limits for you to be able to drive, but that doesn't mean it's the limit for you to be able to say that you're not drunk!

But if you overdrink juice you'll get fat and get diabtetes.

Better to cut the root of evil.

Icetea. Drink water ONLY.

At least juice will cause you to harm yourself only unlike alcohol which can harm others if the person is drunk, don't you agree?

Hehe, well, that's because most of my posts are in the IT sections :D

I know that there are limits for you to be able to drive, but that doesn't mean it's the limit for you to be able to say that you're not drunk!
yes of course it is..

Otherwise you would be driving under the influence of alcohol...

To be able to drive, you need to have sharp reactions, sharp vision, and a clear mind. If you drink a glass of wine, or say drink what ever it is but stay below the limit, it does not compromise any of the above. Therefore, you are most definately not drunk.

Drunk means: Intoxicated with alcoholic liquor to the point of impairment of physical and mental faculties.

At least juice will cause you to harm yourself only unlike alcohol which can harm others if the person is drunk, don't you agree?
Oh.. you're talking about secondary harm .. you mean like cigarettes and sheesha?

Because you are asking about the Bible quote which prohibt drinking alcohol.

I think we have established in the other thread that fulfil means apply or put it in effect.

And I gave you the new boss example but you refused to reply to that post.
No, you decided it meant that. We have not established anything except the fact that you are a hardheaded man with tunnel vision. :D

And also, I wasn't asking you about the verse. So unless you can bring me a verse which states that Jesus shouldn't have been drinking and turning water to wine, scram. lol

Oh.. you're talking about secondary harm .. you mean like cigarettes and sheesha?

I'm sure you know what I meant, but no harm is making it clear for you.

If a person is drunk then it means he can't control his actions, he might hit his wife or rape his mother or any other woman or he can kill someone.

And also, I wasn't asking you about the verse. So unless you can bring me a verse which states that Jesus shouldn't have been drinking and turning water to wine, scram. lol

Evidences there, just check other pages of this thread.

Yes, but how will you know that you can drive? That is the question!

And also, I wasn't asking you about the verse. So unless you can bring me a verse which states that Jesus shouldn't have been drinking and turning water to wine, scram. lol

Here are more, of course Muslims don't believe that prophets ever drunk alcohol.
================
In the 1800’s and early 1900’s the church in America took a bold stand for total abstinence. People read research about the word "wine;" Bible studies showed the truth about alcohol. The result was Prohibition with its great benefits. But the prohibition amendment was repealed, and the church began to weaken its conviction against alcohol. Today some pastors say, "What’s wrong with a six pack? Why get hung up on a little wine at a wedding?"

The Bible is the same "yesterday, today, and forever." What godly Bible teachers said in the past is true today. Dr. Robert Teachout, A Semitic scholar who, in 1979, wrote his doctorate on The Use of Wine in the Old Testament, stated, "Alcohol is never approved by God in any amount for the obedient Christian."

Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi, author of Wine in the Bible, 1989, says, Drinking Alcohol is...a moral issue. It is...a transgression of God’s law."



FACTS TO KNOW

1) The Bible does teach total abstinence from alcohol. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine. The English word wine originally had two meanings also - unfermented juice or alcoholic drink.

2) In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.

3) The Bible says alcoholic drink is evil. It is not just the amount one drinks that makes drinking a sin. God condemns the drink itself. (Prov 20:1 KJV) Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

4) God does not lead us into evil; He delivers us from it. He does not teach us to practice evil in moderation. Jesus did not make, use, approve, commend, or tell us to use intoxicating wine.

5) God made man to have fellowship with Him. Alcohol goes directly to the brain, the communication center of the body. It interferes with God’s purpose for mankind.

75 WARNINGS

There is more Scripture condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.



1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.

2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality

3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.

4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.

5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.

6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.

7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.

8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.

9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.

11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.

12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.

13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated

14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.

15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.

16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.

17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.

20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.

21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.

22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.

25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable

26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.

27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.

29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)

30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.

32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.

33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.

34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.

35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.

36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.

37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.

38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.

39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.

40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.

41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.

43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.

45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.

46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.

47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.

48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.

49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.

50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.

51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.

52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.

53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.

54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.

55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.

56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.

57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.

58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.

59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.

60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.

61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.

62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.

63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.

64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.

65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.

66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God

67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.

68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.

69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.

70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.

74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.

75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life

source (http://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm)

he didn't tell us how to hold our wine glass or give us wine tasting lessons.
all we know about his life is that he shared wine with his mates.
and that he spoke many times against excesses. so having a drink is cool, cos you are like Jesus. but getting drunk isn't and you are sinning.

Well , you agree Jesus (Pbuh) did not taught you how to hold or toast the glass of wine.
He shared with his mates.
And it is reported,
My question, Is this wine is the same wine that people drink now?