i just know that many Christians ( the girl and the boy ) have sex before marriage and it seems like it's a normal thing.

i wonder what the bible and christianity say about this ?

isn't it considered adultery ?
if yes, then why, if not all, most of christians do it?

or no body is following the christanity beliefs anymore ?

i thought adultery was cheating on your spouse.

i thought adultery was cheating on your spouse.

so having sex before marriage isn't considered as adultery ?
and ist Ok to do it ?


in our religion, having illegal sexual intercourse ( any sex relationships ) with someone who's not your spouse is adultery, either you are married or single

I just assumed it was in the bible but now that I think about it... I can't imagine Jesus Christ talking about something so trivial.

Catholics will probably say it's a tradition, I don't know where Protestants get it from.

well what i know of Jesus and adultery is when the townsfolk grabbed an adultress because they wanted to stone her.
and Jesus said 'he who has no sin cast the first stone'
and the stones dropped to the ground and the townsfolk went back home.
Jesus told the woman...'did they condemn you' she said 'no'
and he said 'Go home and sin no more'.

here's the youtube of Jesus and that woman. (they had cameras those days didn't you know? )

The Adultress from Jesus of Nazareth movie by Franco Zeffirelli

I just assumed it was in the bible but now that I think about it... I can't imagine Jesus Christ talking about something so trivial.
Catholics will probably say it's a tradition, I don't know where Protestants get it from.

so this is a trivial thing to talk about ? actually it's considered one of the major topics in Islam and God considered it as a big sin not a trivial one ..



so protestans have different opinion from catholics about it ?

well what i know of Jesus and adultery is when the townsfolk grabbed an adultress because they wanted to stone her. and Jesus said 'he who has no sin cast the first stone'
and the stones dropped to the ground and the townsfolk went back home.
Jesus told the woman...'did they condemn you' she said 'no'
and he said 'Go home and sin no more'.

.

first of all let's know what do you mean by adultery. that woman is married and cheated on her husband to consider her as an adultress?


so if a guy is not married and had sex with more than one girl and this also goes to a single girl who has sexual relatioships with more than one guy ?

aren't they considered adulterers ? because they are not married ?

and from the yuotube, it's considred as a sin

first of all let's know what do you mean by adultery. that woman is married and cheated on her husband to consider her as an adultress?


so if a guy is not married and had sex with more than one girl and this also goes to a single girl who has sexual relatioships with more than one guy ?

aren't they considered adulterers ? because they are not married ?

and from the yuotube, it's considred as a sin
yes it is a sin, and it's also a sin to judge other people, hence the gist from the youtube and the gospel it was taken from.

yes it is a sin, and it's also a sin to judge other people, hence the gist from the youtube and the gospel it was taken from.

we are not judging anyone and yes also in Islam to do the adultery panishment there should be four witnesses who saw the couples commiting the sin by eyes..


still i didnt get an answer from you regarding the non married people who have sex with more than one couple ..and what is the punishment for adultery in christianity

we are not judging anyone and yes also in Islam to do the adultery panishment there should be four witnesses who saw the couples commiting the sin by eyes..


still i didnt get an answer from you regarding the non married people who have sex with more than one couple ..and what is the punishment for adultery in christianity
what punishment?
like i should go hunt people who sleep around?

what punishment?
like i should go hunt people who sleep around?

there is always a punishment for the sin isn't it ?
i mean if someone caught making adultery ? what is the punishment ?

ok let me rephrase my question in here:

still i didnt get an answer from you regarding the non married people who have sex with more than one couple

is it considered as a sin ?

there is always a punishment for the sin isn't it ?
i mean if someone caught making adultery ? what is the punishment ?

ok let me rephrase my question in here:



is it considered as a sin ?
what do you mean by punishment? like punishment from God when you die or punishment from 'the townsfolk'?

El Rey Christians call it sex before marriage not adultry

adultry applies only for married couples as minerva pointed out

we muslims call both types adultry or zina

I believe its also forbidden in christianity to have sex before marriage

read this article:

Question: "What does the Bible say about sex before marriage / premarital sex?"

Answer: Along with all other kinds of sexual immorality, sex before marriage / premarital sex is repeatedly condemned in Scripture (Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes abstinence before marriage. Sex before marriage is just as wrong as adultery and other forms of sexual immorality, because they all involve having sex with someone you are not married to. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations that God approves of (Hebrews 13:4).

Sex before marriage has become so common for many reasons. Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing the “re-creation” aspect. Yes, sex is pleasurable. God designed it that way. He wants men and women to enjoy sexual activity (within the confines of marriage). However, the primary purpose of sex is not pleasure, but rather reproduction. God does not outlaw sex before marriage to rob us of pleasure, but to protect us from unwanted pregnancies and children born to parents who do not want them or are not prepared for them. Imagine how much better our world would be if God’s pattern for sex was followed: fewer sexually transmitted diseases, fewer un-wed mothers, fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions, etc. Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies, gives sexual relations the proper value, and most importantly honors God.

unfortuently most christian couples especially teenagers have sex before marriage

I wonder where is the role of the family and the church in this issue?

what do you mean by punishment? like punishment from God when you die or punishment from 'the townsfolk'?

no lets leave God punishment for God, i meant from what you call the townsfolk, i mean if it's a sin in the bible then for sure God asked Jesus PBUH to punish adulterers in life ..



Thanks alot clouds this cleared many things

no lets leave God punishment for God, i meant from what you call the townsfolk, i mean if it's a sin in the bible then for sure God asked Jesus PBUH to punish adulterers in life ..



Thanks alot clouds this cleared many things
noooooooooo
Jesus never asked anybody to be punished in life.
God is the only judge when you die and meet him face to face.

Muslim teenagers are increasingly having sex together too. That is why there are all these stories about operations to restore virginity. You can argue with me if you like. But here is what Solafa says on Sabla itself, and she is a very good faithful Muslim, a lover of Islam and a lover of Oman. And I have read many threads here and many posts elsewhere in the internet admitting the same thing:

"This [pregnancy from sex before marriage] is very common now days within our young generation either in the Muslim society or else where."

http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1013315&postcount=25

The Christian teenagers I know don't have sex before marriage. I think you are talking about people who have no religon for the most part. You can't conclude that people in the West are generally Christian. My mother is not Christian. My father was not Christian. Neither of them practiced or believed in any religion.

And of course any use of sexuality outside of marriage is a serious sin.

Sometimes the word adultery can be used to include this. But usually we use a separate word. The word for it is: Fornication.

Here is what the New Testament has to say about fornication:

"Shun fornication! Every sin that a person commits is outside the body; but the fornicator sins against the body itself."

1 Corinthians 6: 18.

"Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry)."

Colossians 3: 5.

"Let marriage be held in honor by all, and let the marriage bed be kept undefiled; for God will judge fornicators and adulterers."

Hebrews 13: 4.

But one thing you have to understand:

There are no prescribed punishments for sins in Christianity.

We have the example of Our Lord concerning the woman taken in adultery above. He was famous for eating and drinking with sinners and was condemned by the Jews for it.

And what He teaches us is that especially on sexual matters, we should be slow to punish because we are infected with the same disease and not fit judges. When we punish for sexual sin, we are usually falling into a trap in which we condemn the same thing in others which exists in ourselves.

He teaches that interior sins are just as serious. Even a man who looks lustfully at a woman has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if we look at someone and don't get to have sex with her just because we are in the street or maybe she doesn't like us or something, that doesn't protect us. The intention was there.

We should ask ourselves: What would we do if no one were around? What would we do if she said yes? What would we do if nobody condemned us on earth? What would we do right now if we could get away with it completely?

If our answer is: "I am ashamed to admit that I would do it", then we stand condemned with the Woman Taken in Adultery.

This is a first to know

so in the time of Jesus, people who committed sins ( stole, killed, commited adultery, cheated etc etc etc ), they weren't punished in life ?

This is a first to know

so in the time of Jesus, people who committed sins ( stole, killed, commited adultery, cheated etc etc etc ), they weren't punished in life ?
they are punished by the law of the land.
if you go to prison for stealing, and do your punishment by law, and re-enter society as a good citizen, you still have a debt to pay to God.
Absolution of sins comes with prayers and making good for sins, not with civil punishment.

Jesus did not rule and prescribe punishments on this earth while He walked among us. He didn't govern a community like Mohammed.

The general Law was the law of the Jews, which prescribed death for adultery.

But the Jews did not govern themselves. They were governed by the Romans. And Roman law forbade them from putting anyone to death.

That is why when they wanted to crucify Jesus, they had to ask permission from the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate.

Muslim teenagers are increasingly having sex together too. That is why there are all these stories about operations to restore virginity. You can argue with me if you like. But here is what Solafa says on Sabla itself, and she is a very good faithful Muslim, a lover of Islam and a lover of Oman. And I have read many threads here and many posts elsewhere in the internet admitting the same thing:

"This [pregnancy from sex before marriage] is very common now days within our young generation either in the Muslim society or else where."

http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1013315&postcount=25

The Christian teenagers I know don't have sex before marriage. I think you are talking about people who have no religon for the most part. You can't conclude that people in the West are generally Christian. My mother is not Christian. My father was not Christian. Neither of them practiced or believed in any religion.

And of course any use of sexuality outside of marriage is a serious sin.

Sometimes the word adultery can be used to include this. But usually we use a separate word. The word for it is: Fornication.

Here is what the New Testament has to say about fornication:

"Shun fornication! Every sin that a person commits is outside the body; but the fornicator sins against the body itself."

1 Corinthians 6: 18.

"Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry)."

Colossians 3: 5.

"Let marriage be held in honor by all, and let the marriage bed be kept undefiled; for God will judge fornicators and adulterers."

Hebrews 13: 4.

But one thing you have to understand:

There are no prescribed punishments for sins in Christianity.

We have the example of Our Lord concerning the woman taken in adultery above. He was famous for eating and drinking with sinners and was condemned by the Jews for it.

And what He teaches us is that especially on sexual matters, we should be slow to punish because we are infected with the same disease and not fit judges. When we punish for sexual sin, we are usually falling into a trap in which we condemn the same thing in others which exists in ourselves.

He teaches that interior sins are just as serious. Even a man who looks lustfully at a woman has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if we look at someone and don't get to have sex with her just because we are in the street or maybe she doesn't like us or something, that doesn't protect us. The intention was there.

We should ask ourselves: What would we do if no one were around? What would we do if she said yes? What would we do if nobody condemned us on earth? What would we do right now if we could get away with it completely?

If our answer is: "I am ashamed to admit that I would do it", then we stand condemned with the Woman Taken in Adultery.

very interesting jeff,
i know some muslims commit this sin too, but we know it's forbidden and it's a huge sin. i just wanted to know what it's considered in Christianity.. and as a matter of fact many christians do it. and i myself experineced this.

so even sex before marriage ( fornication ) is considred as a sin, and we have the same thing about the intention and look with lust thing.

very interesting jeff,
i know some muslims commit this sin too, but we know it's forbidden and it's a huge sin. i just wanted to know what it's considered in Christianity.. and as a matter of fact many christians do it. and i myself experineced this.

so even sex before marriage ( fornication ) is considred as a sin, and we have the same thing about the intention and look with lust thing.
it's pretty much the same..

the only difference lies in Islam asking for the person to be punished on earth, while in Christianity, the belief is that debt is owed to God and will be settled by Him.

Jeff said
Muslim teenagers are increasingly having sex together too. That is why there are all these stories about operations to restore virginity.

thanks to their teachers the civilized west who taught them such bad habbits, or I should say sins.

when you meant 'punishment' did you refer to punishing the girl/the boy or both?

clouds, so you mean when two teenagers have sex it is Jeff's/Thalia's/minerva's/wudjab's/jack's,etcetra's fault?

clouds, that is total nonesense.

Jeff said


thanks to their teachers the civilized west who taught them such bad habbits, or I should say sins.
oh come off it!!!!
who taught what to whom?
sex is a basic need for every being in the animal kingdom. if anybody gives in to sex, *God forbid* before marriage, it's only human.

Jeff said


thanks to their teachers the civilized west who taught them such bad habbits, or I should say sins.
hahahahahaha!!!!!

Like people need to be taught on how to have sex. :rolleyes:

The urge is in you. The challenge is to control it.
The question is: Can you?

it's pretty much the same..

the only difference lies in Islam asking for the person to be punished on earth, while in Christianity, the belief is that debt is owed to God and will be settled by Him.


yes, they should be punished in earth and leave God decide if He forgives their repentance or not

when you meant 'punishment' did you refer to punishing the girl/the boy or both?


the punishment goes to both
the married adulterer should be casted by stones to death
and the single adulterer is whipped 80 times i guess, some one corrects me if am mistakene
clouds, so you mean when two teenagers have sex it is Jeff's/Thalia's/minerva's/wudjab's/jack's,etcetra's fault?

clouds, that is total nonesense.

Threadlike, did clouds mention jeff or thalia or minerva names ? are they teachers of teenager muslims ? :rolleyes:

oh come off it!!!!
who taught what to whom?
sex is a basic need for every being in the animal kingdom. if anybody gives in to sex, *God forbid* before marriage, it's only human.

this is so wrong, i think God gave us humans mind to think with, to know what's wrong from right..

only animals surrender to their lusts not humans.

clouds, so you mean when two teenagers have sex it is Jeff's/Thalia's/minerva's/wudjab's/jack's,etcetra's fault?

clouds, that is total nonesense.

Jeff/Thalia/minerva I don't doubt their good behaviour and manners, I am not sure about wudjab and Jack though

what I meant to say our teenagers imitate the west in everything including bad behaviour which is very common there like having boyfriends and girlfriends, explicit movies, indecent dress costumes, funky hair cuts, not growing beards, not wearing hijab etc etc etc

does this makes sense to you?

this is so wrong, i think God gave us humans mind to think with, to know what's wrong from right..

only animals surrender to their lusts not humans.
yes and next time you are with your gf and get a stiffy...be a good christian and think what's wrong from right.

Jeff/Thalia/minerva I don't doubt their good behaviour and manners, I am not sure about wudjab and Jack though

what I meant to say our teenagers imitate the west in everything including bad behaviour which is very common there like having boyfriends and girlfriends, explicit movies, indecent dress costumes, funky hair cuts, not growing beards, not wearing hijab etc etc etc

does this makes sense to you?

what's wrong with having boyfriends/girlfriends? teenagers need to socialise to learn about the opposite sex...does not mean sex....having a bf does not mean going all the way.
funky haircuts? kudos to them...why not?
not growing beards...oh for God's sakes...why would you want an 18 yr old to grow a beard...so unsightly and covers half of a beautiful youthful face.
all those things you mentioned does not make a bad person. i bet heaven is full of unbearded good people.

yes and next time you are with your gf and get a stiffy...be a good christian and think what's wrong from right.

first of all, i dont have a girl friend and i will never have. the only girl friend inshallah i will have is my wife.

get a stiffy...be a good christian

this makes sense to me now ;)

first of all, i dont have a girl friend and i will never have. the only girl friend inshallah i will have is my wife.



this makes sense to me now ;)
hahaha you misquoted...but it's funny.
all good christians stand UP!

btt....
didn't know you was married thought you were a singleton student on sabla as well.

good christians don't fornicate. good christians who fornicate go to confession and try not to fornicate anymore. good christians who don't fornicate are not allowed to judge other fornicating christians because judging is as bad as fornicating, so they risk going to hell while the fornicators go fornicating in heaven afterwards.

very interesting jeff,
i know some muslims commit this sin too, but we know it's forbidden and it's a huge sin. i just wanted to know what it's considered in Christianity.. and as a matter of fact many christians do it. and i myself experineced this.

so even sex before marriage ( fornication ) is considred as a sin, and we have the same thing about the intention and look with lust thing.

And I have experienced the same from Muslims. I could tell you quite a few stories! :p

Yes, I remember reading what your Prophet said about "the glance" and the danger in it.

and the single adulterer is whipped 80 times i guess, some one corrects me if am mistakene

El Rey it's 100 whips not 80

الزَّانِيَةُ وَالزَّانِي فَاجْلِدُوا كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا مِئَةَ جَلْدَةٍ وَلَا تَأْخُذْكُم بِهِمَا رَأْفَةٌ فِي دِينِ اللَّهِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَلْيَشْهَدْ عَذَابَهُمَا طَائِفَةٌ مِّنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (24:2)

hahaha you misquoted...but it's funny.
all good christians stand UP!

btt....
didn't know you was married thought you were a singleton student on sabla as well.

good christians don't fornicate. good christians who fornicate go to confession and try not to fornicate anymore. good christians who don't fornicate are not allowed to judge other fornicating christians because judging is as bad as fornicating, so they risk going to hell while the fornicators go fornicating in heaven afterwards.


nope am still single that's why i used i will have .

so you want to say that boy friends and girl friends dont fornicate ?
i thought when someone says this is my girlfriend he means this is the girl who sleeps with me, or i am wrong ? :rolleyes:

all good christians stand UP!


ROFLMAO... :XD:



Sorry, couldn't help it. :hyper:

Jeff said


thanks to their teachers the civilized west who taught them such bad habbits, or I should say sins.

Perhaps! :p I'm sure that had something to do with it.

But my ancestors learned a lot of things about harems and slave girls and all those sorts of things from your ancestors. The impression of the Arab world that travellers from the West got was that it was full of hidden lusts.

But instead of pointing fingers back and forth, why don't we just agree that sin is sin and that human beings often do that which they know to be wrong. We can leave the "You are worse" "No! You are worse!" arguments to the jokers who leave comments on YouTube.

This is Sabla, a place of civilization and learning! :cute:

El Rey it's 100 whips not 80

الزَّانِيَةُ وَالزَّانِي فَاجْلِدُوا كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا مِئَةَ جَلْدَةٍ وَلَا تَأْخُذْكُم بِهِمَا رَأْفَةٌ فِي دِينِ اللَّهِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَلْيَشْهَدْ عَذَابَهُمَا طَائِفَةٌ مِّنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (24:2)
ouch hope the fornication is good enough to make the whipping worth it.

in malta there are about ten shops selling satellite systems run by arabs (i gather they are muslims).
when my football fanatic husband went into some three or four of them to buy a football package, he was offered 'born, born genil awn, born genil emm' (porn channel on this one, porn channel on that package)...guess lust and sins of the flesh get everybody.

ROFLMAO... :XD:



Sorry, couldn't help it. :hyper:
thanks for picking UP on the play of words... :hyper:

El Rey, "girlfriend" is one of those words with many meanings.

Nowadays even "dating" has come to mean "having sex with somebody."

In my young days, it meant, "going to a movie".

I don't know what "having a girlfriend" means to most people now. But I think for non-religious people it usually involves having sex.

Some serious Christians think it's a bad idea to have girlfriends, even if you don't have sex with them. Others think it's okay, but they don't have sex with each other. And of course, sometimes some people do things they shouldn't do.

When I was in high school, my longest term girlfriend was named Kim. She and I were "together" for a long time. We went to movies and walked on the beach and went swimming together and went to parties. But I never asked her to have sex with me and of course she didn't.

And there are plenty of young Christians who take their religion seriously who behave in the same way today.

So, I think if you are wondering if a girlfriend is having sex with her boyfriend, you just have to not know! But it will depend mostly on the beliefs of the people involved.

And I have experienced the same from Muslims. I could tell you quite a few stories! :p

Yes, I remember reading what your Prophet said about "the glance" and the danger in it.

jeff where not her to deny or confirm if Muslims do this sin, i already said some do it but when they do it, it will be secretly, they fear and feel shame of it and inside regret.. but in the case of christians they do it out loud, they do it as it's marriage and their parents agree with it. it's like something normal
that's why i wanted to know about it. i thought christianity agrees with it

El Rey it's 100 whips not 80

الزَّانِيَةُ وَالزَّانِي فَاجْلِدُوا كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا مِئَةَ جَلْدَةٍ وَلَا تَأْخُذْكُم بِهِمَا رَأْفَةٌ فِي دِينِ اللَّهِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَلْيَشْهَدْ عَذَابَهُمَا طَائِفَةٌ مِّنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (24:2)

Thanks clouds for correction, my bad

this is so wrong, i think God gave us humans mind to think with, to know what's wrong from right..

only animals surrender to their lusts not humans.

Bingo! I agree 100%.

And I want to shake your hand for saying that... [shakes hand]

Jeff/Thalia/minerva I don't doubt their good behaviour and manners, I am not sure about wudjab and Jack though



:hyper::hyper::hyper:

Do you now have a crystal ball? If so, can I see it?

El Rey, "girlfriend" is one of those words with many meanings.

Nowadays even "dating" has come to mean "having sex with somebody."

In my young days, it meant, "going to a movie".

I don't know what "having a girlfriend" means to most people now. But I think for non-religious people it usually involves having sex.

Some serious Christians think it's a bad idea to have girlfriends, even if you don't have sex with them. Others think it's okay, but they don't have sex with each other. And of course, sometimes some people do things they shouldn't do.

When I was in high school, my longest term girlfriend was named Kim. She and I were "together" for a long time. We went to movies and walked on the beach and went swimming together and went to parties. But I never asked her to have sex with me and of course she didn't.

And there are plenty of young Christians who take their religion seriously who behave in the same way today.

So, I think if you are wondering if a girlfriend is having sex with her boyfriend, you just have to not know! But it will depend mostly on the beliefs of the people involved.
hey even when i was young, i had boyfriends but i didn't 'fornicate' with them. the date used to consist of going for a pizza/the movies/watching a live band/ hiking/ bowling/ dancing/going swimming etc...
they always took me home at the time my dad stipulated and my parents always knew who they were and where we were going.

thanks for picking UP on the play of words... :hyper:
Another outstanding man.

:hyper:

Another outstanding man.

:hyper:
he didn't think i posted that intentionally...oh well. very outstanding. :hyper:

jeff where not her to deny or confirm if Muslims do this sin, i already said some do it but when they do it, it will be secretly, they fear and feel shame of it and inside regret.. but in the case of christians they do it out loud, they do it as it's marriage and their parents agree with it. it's like something normal
that's why i wanted to know about it. i thought christianity agrees with it



Thanks clouds for correction, my bad
Christianity does not agree with it and never will.

But each and every person is free to do right or wrong. It's their choice and their responsibility in the end.

jeff where not her to deny or confirm if Muslims do this sin, i already said some do it but when they do it, it will be secretly, they fear and feel shame of it and inside regret.. but in the case of christians they do it out loud, they do it as it's marriage and their parents agree with it. it's like something normal
that's why i wanted to know about it. i thought christianity agrees with it



Thanks clouds for correction, my bad

I don't know what you mean by "Christian." Maybe you are talking about people who use the label but don't take their religion seriously.

But among the people I know, who take their religion very seriously indeed, it is not so. That's not how they behave.

If I take you to churches or youth groups or other such places where there are serious practicing Christians, you will certainly not find people committing adultery or fornicating and acting like it is normal. I can assure you that if I did such a thing I would be HORRIBLY ashamed and I would never act as if it were a normal thing.

On the other hand, I know Muslims who say, "I am a Muslim. But I eat pork. I drink. I have sex. I don't pray. It doesn't mean much."

When we use these names--Christian or Muslim--we need to distinguish those who take it lightly and those who take it seriously.

One can get an impression of people and sometimes it is true and sometimes false. I have a relative who spent a lot of time with Saudis. He said, "You listen to them talk about the West and about religion and you think one thing. Then you see them hop on airplanes and go to France and the clothes change and they get drunk and they go and visit prostitutes and they get girlfriends or boyfriends and think nothing of it."

Now I have met Saudis like this. And I have met lovely dignified Saudis who live a serious life and pray and respect God.

I have seen Muslims girls online discussing what a great idea it is to marry a gay guy because then you can do whatever you want and your husband can do what he wants and no one will ever be the wiser.

Shall I say like my relative "I am a Christian so I don't do adultery. But do Muslims condemn adultery? Because they seem completely unashamed about it."

This just leads to poisonous arguments.

Why don't we keep it mutually respectful? I have learned much from the example of serious Muslims. And I have had Muslims tell me that they have learned much from the example of serious Christians.

Our concern--yours and mine--is to make sure that we ARE a good example to each other.

i was thinking about the 'punishers'...the people who 'whip'...is it an enjoyable thing for them...whipping somebody for a sin? like have they never sinned themselves?
in christianity....that is a very big sin. nobody can take the place of God to judge people.
the law of the country and the law of the people are not one thing.
in law, you are punished if you break a law.
if two consenting unmarried adults have sex, it's their responsability. God is there to judge them and no mortal being is allowed to whip them for their sin. if you beat up someone for having sex with someone else, you are the one bearing a sin and you get trialled by law as well.

El Rey, "girlfriend" is one of those words with many meanings.

Nowadays even "dating" has come to mean "having sex with somebody."

In my young days, it meant, "going to a movie".

I don't know what "having a girlfriend" means to most people now. But I think for non-religious people it usually involves having sex.

Some serious Christians think it's a bad idea to have girlfriends, even if you don't have sex with them. Others think it's okay, but they don't have sex with each other. And of course, sometimes some people do things they shouldn't do.

When I was in high school, my longest term girlfriend was named Kim. She and I were "together" for a long time. We went to movies and walked on the beach and went swimming together and went to parties. But I never asked her to have sex with me and of course she didn't.

And there are plenty of young Christians who take their religion seriously who behave in the same way today.

So, I think if you are wondering if a girlfriend is having sex with her boyfriend, you just have to not know! But it will depend mostly on the beliefs of the people involved.

yah i meant the new meaning of girl friend .. when someone nowadays says this is my girl friend kim for example, this means shez his partner who sleeps with him otherr wise he just says this is my friiend kim. u know better than me in this

Bingo! I agree 100%.

And I want to shake your hand for saying that... [shakes hand]

:hyper: shakes hands too

hey even when i was young, i had boyfriends but i didn't 'fornicate' with them. the date used to consist of going for a pizza/the movies/watching a live band/ hiking/ bowling/ dancing/going swimming etc...
they always took me home at the time my dad stipulated and my parents always knew who they were and where we were going.

at college i also have girls as friends but our friendship is with limits, as classmates only. i think there is something you want to say about your past friendship.. wink*

at college i also have girls as friends but our friendship is with limits, as classmates only. i think there is something you want to say about your past friendship.. wink*

as in what?
if there's a girl you really like do you not ask her out for a coffee and cake/icecream/a movie/ a burger? or whatever?
does asking a girl out have to mean marriage?

When we use these names--Christian or Muslim--we need to distinguish those who take it lightly and those who take it seriously.

.

completely agree, i just saw Shai post and shez a christian and said that there is nothing said about it since it's trivial but u proved the opposite that's why i gave some example. and thanks for the clarification, reading your posts they are mostly similar to us.

i was thinking about the 'punishers'...the people who 'whip'...is it an enjoyable thing for them...whipping somebody for a sin? like have they never sinned themselves?
in christianity....that is a very big sin. nobody can take the place of God to judge people. the law of the country and the law of the people are not one thing.
in law, you are punished if you break a law.
if two consenting unmarried adults have sex, it's their responsability. God is there to judge them and no mortal being is allowed to whip them for their sin. if you beat up someone for having sex with someone else, you are the one bearing a sin and you get trialled by law as well.

God is the One who asked us to do this punishment. i mean in Islam. so we have to apply it because it's God's orders. i just realised that you don't have this in christianity and i respect it, but leave our religion traditions to us muslims

as in what?
if there's a girl you really like do you not ask her out for a coffee and cake/icecream/a movie/ a burger? or whatever?
does asking a girl out have to mean marriage?


simply, it's against our religion and traditions to go out alone with a girl am not her Mahram. :)

God is the One who asked us to do this punishment. i mean in Islam. so we have to apply it because it's God's orders. i just realised that you don't have this in christianity and i respect it, but leave our religion traditions to us muslims




simply, it's against our religion and traditions to go out alone with a girl am not her Mahram. :)
i was only asking in the same fashion you were asking in opening the thread because i really think there's nothing wrong with two teenagers going out alone in a public place (where they can't surely fornicate) together.
when my daughters are older and a kid of their age wants to go to mc. donald's with them, if he's a good kid, of course i'll allow it. as to 'leave our religion traditions to us muslims' sorry....i wasn't in any way trying to undermine your religious traditions...it's only my way of asking and exchanging views. is buying her an icecream (or her buying you one) against tradition and rules? Will you get whipped if you do?
how do you get to know a girl if you don't meet her? if you don't go for a walk with her, don't go to places where you can both relax and talk freely...?

as to 'leave our religion traditions to us muslims' sorry....i wasn't in any way trying to undermine your religious traditions...it's only my way of asking and exchanging views. ..?

it seemed more like criticising not askin

is buying her an icecream (or her buying you one) against tradition and rules? Will you get whipped if you do?
how do you get to know a girl if you don't meet her? if you don't go for a walk with her, don't go to places where you can both relax and talk freely.

i do buy them, i actually bought a cup of coffee for one of my classmates because the coffee machine wasnt working and i went to get myself from the petrol station in my car and so got her too.. but we weren't alone..

our prophet said: if a girl and a boy sat alone in somewhere then satan will be the third of them' which means adultery almost starts like this..

having chat together, going somewhere alone and they can't resist themselves so they commmit the sin.

so to avoid committing sins, avoid what drags you to them.

what does alone mean to you? if you go with a girl to a restaurant are you alone?
alone could mean the two of you in a bedroom or it could mean you two alone in a restaurant packed with people.
both are alone together, but the situations are miles away from each other.

as to criticising you ways, i never intended to criticise....maybe the whipping bit which really got to me. i abhor violence.

completely agree, i just saw Shai post and shez a christian and said that there is nothing said about it since it's trivial but u proved the opposite that's why i gave some example. and thanks for the clarification, reading your posts they are mostly similar to us.

Shai is not a she! Shai is a he! :p

And Shai is not a Christian, though he admires some things about Christianity.

Shai is "technically an Arab" and my guess from what I read is that his religious background and inheritance is closer to yours than mine! But you would have to ask him if he wants to elaborate on the religion of his ancestors.

Shai is, hmm, Shai has his own ideas about religion... :)

it seemed more like criticising not askin



i do buy them, i actually bought a cup of coffee for one of my classmates because the coffee machine wasnt working and i went to get myself from the petrol station in my car and so got her too.. but we weren't alone..

our prophet said: if a girl and a boy sat alone in somewhere then satan will be the third of them' which means adultery almost starts like this..

having chat together, going somewhere alone and they can't resist themselves so they commmit the sin.

so to avoid committing sins, avoid what drags you to them.


If you are talking about a piece of good advice, this might make sense. We Catholics call it "avoiding the near occasions of sin". I just went to confession an hour ago. And after I make my act of contrition which goes like this:

Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended you.
I detest all of my sins because of your just punishments,
But most of all because they offend you, my God,
Who are all Good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve with the help of Your Grace
To sin no more
And to avoid the near occasions of sin.

But I never had the experience when sitting alone with Kim of being out of control and having to yield to my passions. I was alone with her a lot, and we never even had a "close call". She was very attractive to me and we liked each other a lot. But we loved Our Lord and we weren't going to do that.

I was alone with my wife a lot before we got married. She is one cute girl. But we never acted as man and wife. Until our wedding night.

But people need to monitor themselves and their friends and relatives need to advise them too. It will depend on each individual. Some people SHOULD'T be alone together. And a good friend or priest or counselor or parent will say to such a person, "You have a real weakness here. You should be alone with this girl."

I can tell you this. If I were somehow alone with some nice Sabla girl and if she were somehow to be insane enough to be attracted to me and to be in danger of yielding herself, I would rather be run over by a truck, I would rather be shot than to do something like that to her. And to my poor wife!

If her religion and her good sense and her dislike of my age and my lack of handsomeness were not protection enough for her, my conscience would be.

Shai is not a she! Shai is a he! :p

And Shai is not a Christian, though he admires some things about Christianity.

Shai is "technically an Arab" and my guess from what I read is that his religious background and inheritance is closer to yours than mine! But you would have to ask him if he wants to elaborate on the religion of his ancestors.

Shai is, hmm, Shai has his own ideas about religion... :)
Sometimes I think people expect others to carry signs on their backs describing their personal faith's and how strong it is etc..

Why is it even important to them? Why are people put into little compartments like that? Brotherhood and respect should be simply because we are all humans. Not based on who's in my club or your club and who of those in it are the most devout or the least

And also...
Why can't people mind their own business? Jeff is this, Shai is that, Thalia is this, Jack is that.

Gimme a break!
I seriously start to think people have little else to do with their time when they start to waste it wondering if any of us had sex before marriage.

:hyper:

I wasn't wondering if you had sex before marriage! :p

Good grief!

I wasn't wondering if you had sex before marriage! :p

Good grief!
Not YOU!!!! :omg:

Not YOU!!!! :omg:

:os

That's what I said:

Not ME.

:os

That's what I said:

Not ME.
stop IT!! :hyper:

stop IT!! :hyper:

I didn't even START IT.

What's happening with all those cars pulling up onto Azaiba beach late in the evening and then passengers swapping places ?

this is so wrong, i think God gave us humans mind to think with, to know what's wrong from right..

only animals surrender to their lusts not humans.

What ! You mean like Mr. Farhood Azarsina who had the money shot with the statement he made below ?

“You can't expect all males to control themselves when the breasts are out,” he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080130.wkiss0130/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostview

Jeff/Thalia/minerva I don't doubt their good behaviour and manners, I am not sure about wudjab and Jack though

what I meant to say our teenagers imitate the west in everything including bad behaviour which is very common there like having boyfriends and girlfriends, explicit movies, indecent dress costumes, funky hair cuts, not growing beards, not wearing hijab etc etc etc

does this makes sense to you?


Clouds ! How could you !

That was supposed to be a secret just between the two of us.

Sex exists since the beginning of time it's got nothing to do with the west, our arabian literature is full of it :rolleyes:

Clouds ! How could you !

That was supposed to be a secret just between the two of us.

lmao

you can't tell that guy anything he's such a gossip!

lmao

you can't tell that guy anything he's such a gossip!
I think wudjab is indicating more than just a secret shared.. :hyper:

lmao

you can't tell that guy anything he's such a gossip!

Why ?

You also had a bad experience with him as well ?

I am not sure about wudjab and Jack though


I've always had my suspicions on these two:hmm:

Sex exists since the beginning of time it's got nothing to do with the west, our arabian literature is full of it :rolleyes:

Thanks. That's wise, honest, and brave.

The temptation in these arguments is to try to "win" on every single point.

It's a sign of confidence I think when people overcome that.

I don't always do it myself, but I like to try.

Sometimes people have told me that I am subservient to Muslims when I make arguments in their favor. No doubt some people will tell you that you are doing the same in reverse!

Don't listen to them! :p

i just know that many Christians ( the girl and the boy ) have sex before marriage and it seems like it's a normal thing.

i wonder what the bible and christianity say about this ?

isn't it considered adultery ?
if yes, then why, if not all, most of christians do it?

or no body is following the Christan's beliefs anymore ?
Come see those REAL Christians who live in Egypt for example. For them adultry is a very big sin, that repent falls short to undo the error. I know that no religion does allow sex without marriage. For sure those who do it have nothing to do with religion at the very first place.

You have to differentiate between Christians & Americans. I know for sure that you got your information from TV, movies ...etc. That is not the truth of it, and could be this situation is just the 'result' of long years of corruption in morals. Now I think people are getting tired from the endless consequences of a lose society.

The caption is Adultery in Christianity

How it turns to other direction?
Most unpleasant truth is, Adultery is there, where human lives, no question of faith, color, race and creed.
Every religion teaches its follower to win over these dangerous, devils human instincts.

Shai is not a she! Shai is a he! :p

And Shai is not a Christian, though he admires some things about Christianity.

Shai is "technically an Arab" and my guess from what I read is that his religious background and inheritance is closer to yours than mine! But you would have to ask him if he wants to elaborate on the religion of his ancestors.

Shai is, hmm, Shai has his own ideas about religion... :)

:o:o:o

If you are talking about a piece of good advice, this might make sense. We Catholics call it "avoiding the near occasions of sin". I just went to confession an hour ago. And after I make my act of contrition which goes like this:

Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended you.
I detest all of my sins because of your just punishments,
But most of all because they offend you, my God,
Who are all Good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve with the help of Your Grace
To sin no more
And to avoid the near occasions of sin.

But I never had the experience when sitting alone with Kim of being out of control and having to yield to my passions. I was alone with her a lot, and we never even had a "close call". She was very attractive to me and we liked each other a lot. But we loved Our Lord and we weren't going to do that.

I was alone with my wife a lot before we got married. She is one cute girl. But we never acted as man and wife. Until our wedding night.

But people need to monitor themselves and their friends and relatives need to advise them too. It will depend on each individual. Some people SHOULD'T be alone together. And a good friend or priest or counselor or parent will say to such a person, "You have a real weakness here. You should be alone with this girl."

I can tell you this. If I were somehow alone with some nice Sabla girl and if she were somehow to be insane enough to be attracted to me and to be in danger of yielding herself, I would rather be run over by a truck, I would rather be shot than to do something like that to her. And to my poor wife!

If her religion and her good sense and her dislike of my age and my lack of handsomeness were not protection enough for her, my conscience would be.

i agree with most of the thingsyou've said
but let me ask you this question: if in the bible there is something tells you don't do this, will you do it ? regardless if u are convinced or not with it.
in Islam there are some things we are asked not to do like being alone with a strange woman, so we try our best to follow what we were ordered to do.

Gimme a break!
I seriously start to think people have little else to do with their time when they start to waste it wondering if any of us had sex before marriage.

:hyper:

did you? ;)

:o:o:o



i agree with most of the thingsyou've said
but let me ask you this question: if in the bible there is something tells you don't do this, will you do it ? regardless if u are convinced or not with it.
in Islam there are some things we are asked not to do like being alone with a strange woman, so we try our best to follow what we were ordered to do.



did you? ;)
it's considered pervy even to ask....

Come see those REAL Christians who live in Egypt for example. For them adultry is a very big sin, that repent falls short to undo the error. I know that no religion does allow sex without marriage. For sure those who do it have nothing to do with religion at the very first place.

You have to differentiate between Christians & Americans. I know for sure that you got your information from TV, movies ...etc. That is not the truth of it, and could be this situation is just the 'result' of long years of corruption in morals. Now I think people are getting tired from the endless consequences of a lose society.

nope you are wrong, i've been there and seen it with my eyes

nope you are wrong, i've been there and seen it with my eyes
were you spying on them?

it's considered pervy even to ask....

and why is that ? i've asked a general question not personal but she turned it to be personal, thats why i turned the question to be personal too. by her choice :rolleyes:

were you spying on them?

duh, minerva i think you are getting lame. when you come to Oman and see something like it's normal thing, will that be considered as spying ? you just see it everywhere

and why is that ? i've asked a general question not personal but she turned it to be personal, thats why i turned the question to be personal too. by her choice :rolleyes:
no, somebody said 'i'm sure about members x, x and x, but i'm not sure about members y and y'.
as in i'm sure members x are clean and didn't fornicate before marriage, but i'm not sure about members y.
that's why she said 'next you gonna start asking if we did or not'.
then people were joking...oh no not you etc etc.

can i ask you a question..how old are you?

duh, minerva i think you are getting lame. when you come to Oman and see something like it's normal thing, will that be considered as spying ? you just see it everywhere
no cos you said you saw it with your own eyes...

^I don't think minerva is getting lame El.
Theoritically speaking, you can't say 'You had sex' until you see people engaging in a sexual act in front of your very eyes or someone tells you that they did have sex.

If neither happened, you can't say you witnessed it. But well, I'm sure one of them happened, the latter most probably.

^I don't think minerva is getting lame El.
Theoritically speaking, you can't say 'You had sex' until you see people engaging in a sexual act in front of your very eyes or someone tells you that they did have sex.

If neither happened, you can't say you witnessed it. But well, I'm sure one of them happened, the latter most probably.
thank you threadlike.
my husband to be and i used to be in my bedroom for hours watching movies or playing on the old computer....
my mum could walk in any time and sometimes she came in to give us coffee or something.
just because two people are in a room doesn't mean they are up to something 'sinful'.

no cos you said you saw it with your own eyes...

i was answering haroundb when he said:
I know that no religion does allow sex without marriage. For sure those who do it have nothing to do with religion at the very first place.

You have to differentiate between Christians & Americans. I know for sure that you got your information from TV, movies ...etc.

which means yes i've seen many couples sleep together and they are not married.. my apology to Thalia if that hurts her, i made it to be as a joke

^I don't think minerva is getting lame El.
Theoritically speaking, you can't say 'You had sex' until you see people engaging in a sexual act in front of your very eyes or someone tells you that they did have sex.

If neither happened, you can't say you witnessed it. But well, I'm sure one of them happened, the latter most probably.

so when two couples sleep together they have what ? rofl
doesnt need a mind even to think of it agh

oh ok. so you were sharing a room with another couple...you actually saw them. poor you it must have traumatised you.

thank you threadlike.
my husband to be and i used to be in my bedroom for hours watching movies or playing on the old computer....
my mum could walk in any time and sometimes she came in to give us coffee or something.
just because two people are in a room doesn't mean they are up to something 'sinful'.

i meant and i was clear, couples who move to live together. not to stay for couple of hours .. i think i was clear.. they are not married but living together and yes they get children even before marriage

Doesn't even need a mind to think of it?
You realize the magnitude of saying somebody is sleeping with somebody?

You need hardcore evidence for that.
Anyhow, I was not even attacking you or trying to prove you dishonest. I was just waiting for the 'hardcore evidence' that's all.

Doesn't even need a mind to think of it?
You realize the magnitude of saying somebody is sleeping with somebody?

You need hardcore evidence for that.
Anyhow, I was not even attacking you or trying to prove you dishonest. I was just waiting for the 'hardcore evidence' that's all.

i don't know what evidence you are tealking about, let me tell you a simple example.

Me:hey karl.
Karl: hey el rey how you doing . this is my girlfriend sophie, she's just moved with me
Me: congrats you got married? ( acting naiive )
Karl: haha no not yet, we will figure this out we still not sure
sophie: yah we are not in a hurry
Me: ah ok duh cool i mean woow thats great :rolleyes:


Got it threadlike ? i hope it's not a softcore evidence

^I got it dude...Really, before that post.

man those are bad bad evil peoples.

^I got it dude...Really, before that post.


cool :D

man those are bad bad evil peoples.

agh say this before and spare us four pages of discussion.
this is what i meant, it's like a normal thing to do which made me wonder if it's allowed to do or not in Christianity.

so you agree that what they are doing is a sin, right ?

cool :D



agh say this before and spare us four pages of discussion.
this is what i meant, it's like a normal thing to do which made me wonder if it's allowed to do or not in Christianity.

so you agree that what they are doing is a sin, right ?
yes it is. even they know it. but they are responsable for themselves. consenting adults.

i was answering haroundb when he said:


which means yes i've seen many couples sleep together and they are not married.. my apology to Thalia if that hurts her, i made it to be as a joke
LOL

How did I get into it? Nothing you've said can or will hurt me. I'm not sure why you'd think so.

I commented on the fact that it would really have to be someone with nothing better to do for him to sit around and wonder who's had sex or not.

It's pervy.
It's sick.
It's sad.

i was answering haroundb when he said:


which means yes i've seen many couples sleep together and they are not married.. my apology to Thalia if that hurts her, i made it to be as a joke

What were you doing in the room when they were sleeping together ?

Didn't you respect their privacy ?

Are you some kind of a voyeur ?

my answer is: you need to learn something called figure of speech :rolleyes:
i understand now why you don't understand quickly lol,
i give you the excuse

Now you're trying to teach me english ?

Shouldn't you be out there, strapping on a suicide vest or something ?

Now you're trying to teach me english ?



yes i am :yes:

lesson one: figure of speech :p

it means: an expression which uses words to mean something different from their ordinary meaning.

here is a hint: not literal meaning .

you can go now

So when you said "which means yes i've seen many couples sleep together and they are not married" it could mean either of the following :

1) It was not a figure of speech because you were SPECIFICALLY clarifying a point to Haroun.
2) If it was a figure of speech it means you DID NOT see many couples sleep together.
3) You don't know your arse from your elbow.

Take your pick.

yawns* :zzz:
oh ok i pick number three, randomly
now me reading it: agh thats bad :omg:

i think if you read how i explained it to threadlike you will already know the answer. i know you takea bit long time to understand a point so my suggestion is come tomorow again and read the post, it maybe becomes clearer for you

Now if only we could work on the rules of punctuation and capitalization, we would be making some progress...

don't hurry yourself, everything comes step by step.
but good student ,eager to learn more.

cool :D



agh say this before and spare us four pages of discussion.
this is what i meant, it's like a normal thing to do which made me wonder if it's allowed to do or not in Christianity.

so you agree that what they are doing is a sin, right ?

Western society today is NOT Christian. A lot of people from the Middle East don't realize that.

It's not just that people don't practice it. It's that many or in some countries most people know nothing about religion at all. They don't think of themselves as Christians, they aren't raised by parents who think of themselves as Christian, and often they hate Christianity and make fun of it. They don't even have a cultural background in it.

You just can't look at a Westerner and say: This is a Christian.

And then there are a lot of nominal Christians too. They sort of identify themselves that way, but they don't really practice and they just follow their own rules and ideas.

My mother is a non-Christian. She doesn't believe it. She doesn't like it. She doesn't identify with it.

My sister Lydia is a nominal Christian. She sort of thinks of herself as vaguely Christian but she doesn't go to church and she pretty much decides for herself what it means.

On the other hand, my sister Melissa and I are Catholics. We became Catholics because we believed it was true and we take it seriously.

People from my mother's category aren't relevant at all in a discussion of how Christians behave. She's not a Christian in any way, shape or form. People who think like her will not have any problems most of the time sleeping with other people because that's the dominant model of secular Western society today.

People from Lydia's category will often have "relationships". They sort of follow their own ideas and that gets influenced by what goes on around them in society at large. They tell themselves it's okay as long as they are "serious" or something like that.

People like Melissa and me will certainly not sleep with people other than spouses, or if we did, we would be horribly conscience stricken and sorry.

So, when you see Westerners doing this, you can't say it has something to do with Christianity. It has to do with the sickened and secularized state of modern Western society.

Thanks jeff, this is the best answer i've got.
so in brief: As in Islam adultery is a sin in christianity and no one does it but the weak people who lose their belief for a personal lust

The new thing i got from this question is that unlike Islam, Christianity doesnt ask for punishment in life, on the other hand they leave this for God to judge in. and Also this is the first time i knew that Jesus was under the jews law who they also were under the Romans law.

Thanks again for the clarification.