It really drives me crazy when I hear people messing up with their language when they talk. Today I was watching my favorite program called Nashwah,. One of its parts was about mothers being depressed after giving birth and there was this lady who was invited to talk about her experience and here how was her speach *None arabic readers excuse me here, but this has to be written, and basically what in red is english words and the rest are arabic words*:

عملية الدبرشن بدت معي مباشرة بعد البيبي بيرث و كانت تكمله لكل البينز اللي بدت مع الكونسيفنج , و الدبرشن هو عبارة عن الشعور بالكونفيوز في الفيلنجز الداخلي و المرأه تكون مش عارفه اف هيه هبي او ساد , و هي متعرفش الريسونز للي يحصل لها , الدكتور نصح ماي هزبند بانه يحاول يبعدني عن البيبي لما يحس اني في حالة دبرشن علشان انا ما اعمل حاجه باد للبيبي , و من بعض الريسونز للدبرشن اني انا وركنج مذر و كان الوقت فيري شورت لكون مع البيبي و مع الورك , و صار عندي ميموري قصير و كنت اي دونت نو ايش اي هاف تو دو ,

That was part of what of what that lady said!! If you want to double check try to see the reply of the program and tell me if I'm exaggerating what I've written above. tell me what sort of language is that!! That's really and simply just rubbish and that lady and such people shouldn't be allowed to speak on educational programs.

The lady is arab and can speak a perfect arabic but I really do not know what it's behind this stupid trend "maybe show off" of mixing different words from different languages in the main language. The beauty of the language has gone and killed by such irritating habits. If such people think they have a high level of education, I say sorry they are ignorant and have no idea about the word "educated"!! Also, I think that's some sort of showing direspect ot the viewers as not all of them understand english.


I blamed Dr. Nashwah, the program presenter, and that's why I sent her an email complaining about her choice as the people who watch that program are not all english speakers and also they dedicated that time to watch and understand something useful not to feel like being left out.

I disagree with you. :)

Not everyone is perfect when it comes to language skills, not everyone has the ability to compile sentences with words from the same language at that very instant moment that he/she is supposed to. Heck even I can't do it seeing that I am more used to speaking, writing and reading in English than Arabic, and I often have the tendency to mix English words in the middle because I can't think of it's equivalent in Arabic.

I am an Arab too, and I actually understand and speak Arabic very well so I really think you should stop judging and assuming that they're trying to be arrogant, and In all honesty, I hope they ignore your email.

Try to remember this the next time you start judging, just cause you can do it, doesn't mean that everyone else can do the same.

I have been told by some Sabla members, including Omanis, that their English skills are far superior to their Arabic skills.

I don't know if that's the case here, but it might be!

I have been told by some Sabla members, including Omanis, that their English skills are far superior to their Arabic skills.


That doesn't apply to the majority of Omanis, it's actually quite difficult to find other omanis out of sabla who speak decent English.

I disagree with you. :)

Heck even I can't do it seeing that I am more used to speaking, writing and reading in English than Arabic, and I often have the tendency to mix English words in the middle because I can't think of it's equivalent in Arabic.

.

I am an Arab too, and I actually understand and speak Arabic very well

what a contradiction :rolleyes:

if you often have the tendency to mix english words with arabic then sorry you don't understand arabic well.


i agree with Bint Arab that if the girl wants to speak in an educational arabic program then she should speak it fluently. for God sake it's an ARABIC channel and an ARABIC program.

what a contradiction :rolleyes:

if you often have the tendency to mix english words with arabic then sorry you don't understand arabic well.


My college education has been %100 in Arabic, so who are you to come here and tell me I'm contradicting myself and that I don't understand arabic? Do you know me? my point was that at the spur of the moment people tend to mix and match but with careful thinking sometimes it can be done easily. In my case I mix and match because it's easier for me and it's less time consuming.

What a foolish judgmental statement you made. sorry.

That doesn't apply to the majority of Omanis, it's actually quite difficult to find other omanis out of sabla who speak decent English.

Sure, it's an unusual situation, I know.

But not unheard of.

I guess some Omanis just grew up with parents that spent a lot of time in England or they spent a lot of time abroad themselves. So English just becomes a first language for them.

And obviously, they will gravitate to English Sabla! :p

And then there are those like some of our Kuwaiti members who grew up in English speaking countries and speak mostly English at home, for whom Arabic is a bit difficult...they are just not as fluent in it.

^ That's true, like in my case I was born in the U.S along with 2 other siblings. My other two siblings however whom were born in Oman, don't understand or speak English as well though.

I speak arabenglaizy

Hahahaha...reading that is really funny. I agree that it's an Arabic language show and she should speak Arabic: After all, not all the viewers will understand those English words like "depression" hahaha, and it will exclude them and make them angry.

But in every day life I don't see any harm. Based on the 40-50 current and previous Sabla members I've met in person, I know that a lot of educated people tend to use whichever word comes first to mind in conversation. I know a lot of people who normally talk like this lady when speaking to others who know both languages. Actually I do it too with Arabic-speakers but in reverse...!!

I noticed a lot of Lebanese people like to speak this mixture on TV...I think Bint Arab is right that it's also a bit of a show-off fashion.

^ That's true, like in my case I was born in the U.S along with 2 other siblings. My other two siblings however whom were born in Oman, don't understand or speak English as well though.

Goodness! I didn't know I was speaking to a fellow American!

So who are you voting for?

My college education has been %100 in Arabic, so who are you to come here and tell me I'm contradicting myself and that I don't understand arabic? Do you know me? my point was that at the spur of the moment people tend to mix and match but with careful thinking sometimes it can be done easily. In my case I mix and match because it's easier for me and it's less time consuming.

What a foolish judgmental statement you made. sorry.

cool down dude and red repping is not gonna change my point of view.. :)

when you say:
I can't think of it's equivalent in Arabic.

this simply mean, you lack the knowledge in Arabic language
this means you don't understand Arabic well
if you do then you will simply talk arabic fluently without the need of English terms equivalent.

That's unfair Rey. If you're completely fluent in two languages, sometimes a word in one or the other just seems more suitable. And if you're talking to someone who understands both then what's wrong with that?

That's unfair Rey. If you're completely fluent in two languages, sometimes a word in one or the other just seems more suitable. And if you're talking to someone who understands both then what's wrong with that?

mimosa, lets be honest. when i say i do something well, then other expect me to do it well

i didnt say he doesnt understand arabic, i said he doesnt uderstand it well and i don't think i was mistaken.


when an english man talks english with indian or arabic words in them because he: can't think of it's equivalent in English.
then will u say this man talk english well ??


well1 /wɛl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adverb, adjective, comparative bet·ter, superlative best, interjection, noun
–adverb 1. in a good or satisfactory manner: Business is going well.
2. thoroughly, carefully, or soundly: to shake well before using; listen well.
3. in a moral or proper manner: to behave well.
4. commendably, meritoriously, or excellently: a difficult task well done. 5. with propriety, justice, or reason: I could not well refuse.
6. adequately or sufficiently: Think well before you act.
7. to a considerable extent or degree: a sum well over the amount agreed upon.
8. with great or intimate knowledge: to know a person well.
9. certainly; without doubt: I anger easily, as you well know.
10. with good nature; without rancor: He took the joke well.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/well

I'm saying he's choosing the most appropriate word from his multi-lingual vocabulary, which is different from failing to know the word in one language. I would say that is more impressive than speaking one language well.

If someone is speaking Arabic so another person who only understands Arabic, and can't find the word in Arabic so puts an English one, then that is not speaking Arabic well (like me!). But if someone like Nobby who is multi-lingual and is speaking to another multi-lingual person, and chooses words from different languages to be more eloquent and precise, then thats because he speaks two languages well, not one badly.

I'm saying he's choosing the most appropriate word from his multi-lingual vocabulary, which is different from failing to know the word in one language. I would say that is more impressive than speaking one language well.

If someone is speaking Arabic so another person who only understands Arabic, and can't find the word in Arabic so puts an English one, then that is not speaking Arabic well (like me!). But if someone like Nobby who is multi-lingual and is speaking to another multi-lingual person, and chooses words from different languages to be more eloquent and precise, then thats because he speaks two languages well, not one badly.

Thanks mimo and this is what i was saying. can't is different from choose and Nabhan said I can't think of it's equivalent in Arabic not i chose to say it in english because the person am talking to is bilingual.

this doesnt address who you are speaking to but the speaker himself.

anyway, i rest my case here i was just stating my opinion about the girl shouldn't speak with mix english arabic words when she's in an arabic channel. imagine if someone wants to learn arabic and watched that program. agh

El Rey:

Each language has its advantages and disadvantages. Some express a certain concept more concisely and clearly, others don't. And sometimes a word in one language has a punch or flavor that can't be found in the other.

That's why English speakers will say: "She has a certain je ne sais quoi! Instead of saying, "She has a certain indefinable quality that is all her own."

Languages don't have walls around them. They intersect and penetrate each other. If I say "Allahu Akbar" in English it has a different feel and even meaning from saying "God is great".

I think mimosa is right on this and you are being hasty. My guess is that Nabhan's Arabic is just as good as yours.

El Rey:

Each language has its advantages and disadvantages. Some express a certain concept more concisely and clearly, others don't. And sometimes a word in one language has a punch or flavor that can't be found in the other.
That's why English speakers will say: "She has a certain je ne sais quoi! Instead of saying, "She has a certain indefinable quality that is all her own."


so why do you think, in all english programs there is a never mix language ? or you want to say that English language is perfect and concise in explaining all the terms unlike Arabic ?

I think mimosa is right on this and you are being hasty. My guess is that Nabhan's Arabic is just as good as yours

100% agree with you coz unfortunately, i myself don't speak arabic well
i'd rather say i speak Omani well

True… people are not all the same but let’s be frank…

There are so many people “maybe suffering from inferiority complex” who try to show off their second-language skill. Using a foreign language more often is not always an excuse and if we just watch very clearly to the foreign words…we can pick up many which are easy to say in Arabic.

Looking at the above defaced text, the following are so unjustifiable

مش عارفه اف هيه هبي او ساد

كنت اي دونت نو ايش اي هاف تو دو

Aren't these very common words we daily use?


Why is it so difficult to pick up the Arabic equivalent of these words?
I think showing off is the mildest excuse or else it would be being stupid enough not to pick them up.

All I'll say is every country has an accent.

When you are taught something that is in a language different than your mother tongue, you are very likely to use the terminology of the language you were taught in. If an Arab goes to medical school and learns medicine in English he is more likely to use the English terminology, even when speaking Arabic. This should not be very surprising.

Also, when you know more than one language your brain has a natural tendency to interchange between those languages. Sometimes when I speak Spanish, Arabic words come out and vice versa (and the same with English), its not something we have complete control over.

Not to stress the involuntary interchange between the languages too much, but in addition to this we should acknowledge that as we learn them, we become more familiar and comfortable with certain words from certain languages, depending on our experience or usage of these words - thus we use them even when we speak in another language.

The majority of Arabs nowadays are using some english words in their daily conversations. We use English at school, college and work. So, it's not astonishing how some english words are coming out while your speaking in anytime and anywhere..

so why do you think, in all english programs there is a never mix language ? or you want to say that English language is perfect and concise in explaining all the terms unlike Arabic ?


We DO mix words from other languages and I just gave you an example: je ne sais quoi. If someone says, "He's one of those Allahu Akbar kinds of guys, you know? Those people always have a certain je ne sais quoi", nobody will bat an eyelash. Because we mix foreign words and phrases in Ehglish all the time.

It's natural for us and we are not worried about it. That's why most of our words come from non-English sources.

Now I grant you that because English is the international language and many, many people know it and come into contact with it in countless ways that it happens that more of it creeps into other languages than the other way around. But that's just because people know English.

In the days when French was the international language, and before that Latin, Latin and French phrases and words were used all the time in English.

jeff you didnt get my point in here, when you say that you mix English with other words you gave certain words as example which means these words became part of the english language so it's ok to use them.we also use some english words in arabic like internet and computer and i have nothing agaisnt using them because these english words became part of the arabic language as well, so everybody will understand when you say them.

in the case of Bint Arab example, the girl in the program is speaking 50%english 50% arabic in 100% Arabic show and this is for sure stupidity and ignorance.

This is what linguists call "code-switching" and it in fact shows that a person is proficient in both language that he/she can alternate between two languages with ease to get a message across! However, it is only regarded "proficient" when both speakers or audience are familiar with both languages, now it's either this lady in the show is genuinely expecting that the audience she's addressing are proficient in both languages or that she's merely annoying!

I see no harm with code-switching in day to day circumstances when it's genuine and with people you know would understand you with ease or even better. I personally code-switch with my closest of people, but I try hard not to with people whom Arabic is their only or their dominant language. It all goes back to "communication skills"!

However, I must agree with Bint Arab, El Rey and Pygmalion that this example given above precisely is not a genuine code-switch, it's simply annoying!

I must add that the best language in the world is "sign language" because you can code-switch, mix and include it as much as you like and no one will notice or protest :p

jeff you didnt get my point in here, when you say that you mix English with other words you gave certain words as example which means these words became part of the english language so it's ok to use them.we also use some english words in arabic like internet and computer and i have nothing agaisnt using them because these english words became part of the arabic language as well, so everybody will understand when you say them.

in the case of Bint Arab example, the girl in the program is speaking 50%english 50% arabic in 100% Arabic show and this is for sure stupidity and ignorance.

No: they BECOME part of the English language BECAUSE people just use them when they speak English.

But I do take your point. It's only becoming clear to me how MUCH English the girl was using. So, I think I will say that you win the debate with Jeff! :)

Not everyone is perfect when it comes to language skills, not everyone has the ability to compile sentences with words from the same language at that very instant moment that he/she is supposed to.


See that's one of the major problem that we, people who speak other language(s), face is not being able to find the exact word as an equivalent or compile sentances. The reason behind this is that when we started to learn english for example we keep using english terminologies instead of the arabic ones. If you use the extra languages in the right place and only when needed then we wouldn't face this problem. I do not think there is a vocabulary shortage in our mother language.

This leads to a language crisis and it'll face our upcoming generations if nothing is to be done to warn about it. And this is already showing in arabic language exam results in some schools in Muscat, as we see the student has scored very good marks in other subjects but when it comes to arabic her marks are down!!

I do speak english, well broken one, but still I would watch my tongue not to say a word in english when I used to teach. Simply that would just confuse my students and would be contradicting myself if I did such a thing since I kept advising them how important to keep the beauty of our language and try to avoid using the accent-ed arabic in the classroom.

Thank you for sharing your point of views. :)

I'm with Nabhan 100% on his 1st post..

I can speak Arabic very well.. But in the moment some words just come to mind a lot faster and easier in English than they do in Arabic.. It has nothing to do with showing off or beign arrogant.. some people are just used to it.. Especially if you've spent a lot of ur time outside of your country and in a country where English is the main language being used.. You just get used to it and it becomes a part of your daily speech pretty much! ;)

I think once I go back home i'll reprogram myself.. but at the moment it's not happening! and Trying to force it .. doesnt make it better either. ( ive tried lol )

This is what linguists call "code-switching" and it in fact shows that a person is proficient in both language that he/she can alternate between two languages with ease to get a message across!

ugh..linguistic course nostalgia .. :love:

i remember how i used to think that all people who mix languages are just show-offs..back in the days when my English skills weren't all that. xD

but now that i mix words myself, i realized that sometimes, even if you're speaking in Arabic, English words come to mind before Arabic ones. i sometimes feel like a show-off while speaking to my cousins and then blurt an English word in the middle..even though i try not to, but they just come out.
i pause and try to recall the equivalent Arabic word of it. i don't really mean to show off, but not only does the English word come faster to mind sometimes, but sometimes English words are more accurate to the subject you're addressing. they just fit better.

i don't really see the harm of mixing, as long as the audience you're addressing can understand.
and i can't help but find the example you gave kinda weird. the positions of the English words are...umm, they don't fit. "صار عندي ميموري قصير" lol.

well i tend to mix arabic with english ONLY when i speak to my parents, sisters or cousins it's not that we have a weak arabic but it's just that it comes out automaticly XD
but when i speak to others i speak their language coz i respect them and i don't wana act as if am better than them

Well it depend on people how/ where do they live, some time you just have to excuse people because most of the people even though they are Arab but they speak English at work around 6 to 9 hours at work and speaking only in English so what do you except from him/her to do in this manner.

wow i think this subject is about me lol. well i talk like 70 % of my talk is in english and only a liltle bit of arabic, this is something that im trying to stay away from these days but it has became a strong habit that i think i might keep cuz its easier to find words in english than in arabic, maybe the fact i study in a private school might be the reason cuz we only study religion and arabic in arabic and everything else is english lol
and this is not only me even with my friennds and sister :S