Many people convert or choose a religion, but then they face some problem with adapting to it; the person clearly is lost & doesn't know if he/she should stick with the religion or just drop it.

Would you care if this certain person just abandoned the religion they chose? (knowing that the religion is what you believe in)

I just noticed that people tend to "advise", but it's obvious that what they are doing is forcing the person to stay in the religion they love & believe in.

Not everyone "needs" religion to make it through life. Many do and that's fine.

Yes ... advising is one thing and telling/threatening is another.

Can you make examples of forcing, from your own experience ?
Hope you dnt mean the other thread, cause there was no force in it

Spirit,

doesn't it depend on whether you think the religion is really True?

If you think all religions are true or all are attempts at truth but fall short, then it makes sense to say: This one was not for her.

But if you think that the religion is True with a capital 'T', then it makes sense to urge the person to stand fast or to return.

Of course, you have to do that in love and with patience. Sometimes you can do more harm than good if you push somebody.

But I think the difference in how you respond is going to depend on what I outlined above!

BTW, I noticed what you said in the K_rla thread earlier. I thought somebody would come down hard on you! But they didn't... :p So far!

Would you care if this certain person just abandoned the religion they chose? (knowing that the religion is what you believe in)


depends on who i am, if am just a normal muslim ( which i am ) i'll just advise whoever convert from Islam to another religion, based on my love and friendship to that person.

but if am a man in charge, i'll apply the Islamic judgement and you know what it's ;)

I understand some religions are hard to conform to because they aren't just a religion, they are a total different way of life.
For example, if i turned Muslim and wanted to be a good one, i'd have to cover my head, renounce certain food and alcohol and pray 5 times daily (from what i understand from the practising muslims in here)...so that would take a lot of doing and a lot of devotion. One cannot embrace a new religion without support and a community around you to help you follow that religion properly.

depends on who i am, if am just a normal muslim ( which i am ) i'll just advise whoever convert from Islam to another religion, based on my love and friendship to that person.

but if am a man in charge, i'll apply the Islamic judgement and you know what it's ;)

Wow!

So are you saying she is destined to another religion, but Allah says other religions are false, so the person in charge would have to do away with her? :os

If you believe in Islam, how do you know she isn't just passing through a time of testing? Maybe her discovering that Islam is for her is meant to be through you?

One cannot embrace a new religion without support and a community around you to help you follow that religion properly.

This is an excellent point. I have heard Muslims discussing the problem with converts in the West is that support groups are not well organized. So many people convert and then they have no family or friends to support them and they drift away.

I think in the case of K_rla, if you believe she should be Muslim you should move heaven and earth to find her some buddies on the spot. That shouldn't be impossible, though it might be difficult.

Wow!

So are you saying she is destined to another religion, but Allah says other religions are false, so the person in charge would have to do away with her? :os

If you believe in Islam, how do you know she isn't just passing through a time of testing? Maybe her discovering that Islam is for her is meant to be through you?

i just noticed that you mean K_rla. i was saying that we have different view in Muslims converting from Islam to another religion.. my bad i misunderstood the topic and answered the question straigh away

That shouldn't be impossible, though it might be difficult.

Maybe it's not meant to be.

i just noticed that you mean K_rla. i was saying that we have different view in Muslims converting from Islam to another religion.. my bad i misunderstood the topic and answered the question straigh away

You did not misunderstand it...

This thread isn't about K_rla

Maybe it's not meant to be.
Yes but you cannot understand it at the first difficulty because you do not know yet what's required to arrive til the end
Probably you are not Muslim or you don't follow a religion, that's why we didn't understand each other in the other thread

Back to the topic I think that when we believe in a source of happiness, we want others to do as well
If we are extreme in practicing our religion then yes,, we might over do and force it

Then my answer already stated

amo_oman: book me 1st class flight to hell would yeh?

This thread isn't about spirit's belief

I guess it's a problem with the person's faith, we feel sometimes that our faith is weak and so goes for convert ppl. They might feel their faith is getting weak and that they did a wrong decision to connvert. Many other factors cause this too, such as the envireonment, the society they're living in and ppl around them.

Um, I have a question if you never mind. Can you explain the title "The religion isn't for them" coz I'm getting confused..

Um, I have a question if you never mind. Can you explain the title "The religion isn't for them" coz I'm getting confused..

You see faith86,

A person isn't following a certain religion in his life & then all of a sudden they choose a religion & then they face doubts & all.

There are others who feel that their current religion isn't for them & decide to convert to another religion.

Got me?

This thread isn't about spirit's belief

It is somehow, because your question depends on how you see religion in your life
Explain us with practical examples what makes you think that religion is forced [leave out evangelics or salafists :D]

Ok got it, fair enougt I must say :).

Well honestly, I'd care if someone tries to involve me in a religion.. I'd just kick his/her butt lol
And yeah, as a matter of fact, people tend to advise you or tries to make you change or even 'have' a religion..
And there are some people like that on ES.. (100% sure :cute:)

Its the duty of each and every muslim to invite and preach non muslims to embrace Islam, by using good manners and wisdom not by being rude and aggressive.

This also applies preaching muslim sinners in the same manner

Allah said in the Quran in chapter 16( Al Nahl) verse 125:

Invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Revelation and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. (125)

Invite is a command by Allah to prophet Mohammad pbuh, but this also applies to all muslims, as scholars said any command in the Quran from Allah to our prophet pbuh is a command to all of us muslims.


Ps Non muslims be patient with us, we have been ordered by Allah swt to preach you to Islam. (no hard feelings we want your own good)

Ps Non muslims be patient with us, we have been ordered by Allah swt to preach you to Islam. (no hard feelings we want your own good)

Oh, personally, I appreciate it! :)

We Christians of course have a simiilar order! :)

So how can we not understand your position?

Oh, personally, I appreciate it! :)

We Christians of course have a simiilar order! :)

So how can we not understand your position?

Thanks Jeff for your understanding,

reading and participating in your threads I truly think and believe you are a step away from being a muslim.

to be honest with you Jeff Islam really needs open-minded, well convincing and knowledgeable people like you.

I can imagine you Jeff if (Allah's willing) you embrace Islam to be a great scholar and very famous one as well, and I will be the first one to follow your concepts and ideas, and you will be my favourite scholar.

Thanks Jeff for your understanding,

reading and participating in your threads I truly think and believe you are a step away from being a muslim.

to be honest with you Jeff Islam really needs open-minded, well convincing and knowledgeable people like you.

I can imagine you Jeff if (Allah's willing) you embrace Islam to be a great scholar and very famous one as well, and I will be the first one to follow your concepts and ideas, and you will be my favourite scholar.

Why ?

So that he can become a closed minded parrot like you ?

Thanks but no thanks.

Really.

No frigging thanks.

You're not allowed to leave Islam, it's like the Hotel California.

Thanks Jeff for your understanding,

reading and participating in your threads I truly think and believe you are a step away from being a muslim.

to be honest with you Jeff Islam really needs open-minded, well convincing and knowledgeable people like you.

I can imagine you Jeff if (Allah's willing) you embrace Islam to be a great scholar and very famous one as well, and I will be the first one to follow your concepts and ideas, and you will be my favourite scholar.

Ah, clouds, my friend, you do not understand me! :)

As I said before, no one is less likely to become a Muslim than myself.

But your kindness and the energy of your responses and the genuine attempts you make to reach out and really understand what I am saying are a high compliment to me.

In the end, though, I am going to frustrate and disappoint you, mark my words.

But the lesson for both of us is: God is the Master of His creatures! He may take us places we don't expect and aren't prepared for if only we abandon ourselves to His Will.

If we both try to learn that lesson at the deepest levels, He is sure to be at our sides.

Thing is...
If you change, and then you return and then you change and then you return the next time you change you will not change for a religion. And THAT, in my opinion, is ultimate loss. Because it'll be an agonizing process during which you have basically filtered any religious feeling out of you...You have lost any taste of religion itself in the whole thing.

You or I have no right to say, 'Nah, it's not meant for you'. It's not your authority. And it's not mine. And it's neither being wise or advising anything. It's completely DEVOID of advice...When the person is ASKING you what he or she should do to STICK to their religion, because they realize it IS true and they still believe that, you try your best to 'advise' them on that. You don't try your best to confuse them about it...But (and that's becoming my favorite sentence these days), whatever rocks your boat.

Jeff, many Muslims (including me) probably love the Adidas logo...
Impossible is nothing ;)

*runs away*

Why ?

So that he can become a closed minded parrot like you ?

Thanks but no thanks.

Really.

No frigging thanks.

wudjab mind your own business

I am not addressing you it's for Jeff

you admit that you are a proud Kaffir

I only have the sword for you to chop your tongue

wudjab mind your own business

I am not addressing you it's for Jeff

you admit that you are a proud Kaffir

I only have the sword for you to chop your tongue

If you pull me one way and Wudjab pulls me the other, I will be torn in half!

Then I will be no good to either of you.

There are many times when I feel closer to Wudjab on an issue and then many times when I feel closer to you or Ice Tea or Haroun.

On this issue, I feel torn.

What I admire in you is your commitment to truth, the sense that you are not the judge of everything but rather that you are UNDER some things.

That's where we have to be if we believe our religions are actually true.

If I knew a Catholic who was contemplating leaving the Faith, I could NEVER say: Maybe it's not for you.

But on the other hand, I can't force the persons mind. Sometimes a person will benefit from a harsh rebuke. But often a person will be better off in the end with mildness and patience and slow persuasion.

Think how patient God is with us. We can afford to imitate that Patience sometimes if it is for His Glory.

But I think you and I agree that there is a problem with the way spirit poses the question for any true believer in a religion of Universal Truth, be he Muslim or Christian.

But I think you and I agree that there is a problem with the way spirit poses the question for any true believer in a religion of Universal Truth, be he Muslim or Christian.

Both of you think that your religion is superior & want everyone else to join you, one way or another.

You guys might differ in religion, but you both share the frightening way of radical religious thinking.

You or I have no right to say, 'Nah, it's not meant for you'. It's not your authority. And it's not mine. And it's neither being wise or advising anything. It's completely DEVOID of advice...When the person is ASKING you what he or she should do to STICK to their religion, because they realize it IS true and they still believe that, you try your best to 'advise' them on that. You don't try your best to confuse them about it...But (and that's becoming my favorite sentence these days), whatever rocks your boat.



Wouldnt have said it better than Threadlike!

Both of you think that your religion is superior & want everyone else to join you, one way or another.

You guys might differ in religion, but you both share the frightening way of radical religious thinking.

You hit the nail on the head.

We are eeeeeevil, eeeeeevil twins! :p

One cannot embrace a new religion without support and a community around you to help you follow that religion properly.

So, basically you are worried that the community may not support you if you convert to, eg. Islam.

Both of you think that your religion is superior & want everyone else to join you, one way or another.

You guys might differ in religion, but you both share the frightening way of radical religious thinking.


Whats the use of strongly beleiving in a religion if you dont beleive its the truth one?

Otherwise, a person will not be called a beleiver but a mere follower!

Both of you think that your religion is superior & want everyone else to join you, one way or another.

You guys might differ in religion, but you both share the frightening way of radical religious thinking.

spirit enlighten us about your SUPERIOR religion and where do you fit in this chart?


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5508/religionchartys9.gif (http://imageshack.us)


and which group do you belong to?


Christianity: 2.1 billion

Islam: 1.5 billion

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

Buddhism: 376 million

primal-indigenous: 300 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 15 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 7 million

Jainism: 4.2 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 4 million

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

Tenrikyo: 2 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

Scientology: 500 thousand


sorry, you might be living on another planet which I don't have actual statistics about it!!!!

.

wudjab mind your own business

I am not addressing you it's for Jeff

you admit that you are a proud Kaffir

I only have the sword for you to chop your tongue

Are you another 'peaceful' muslim ?

So, basically you are worried that the community may not support you if you convert to, eg. Islam.
not worried about community support, but religion is something people share together. as in praying....there are times where you need to be with other people who share your beliefs.

not worried about community support, but religion is something people share together. as in praying....there are times where you need to be with other people who share your beliefs.

With a little effort, You can always find people who share the same belief, faith, wherever you live in the world.