Too many guys are obsessed with their wives being virgins on the wedding night. This has to be one of the most pointless, inconsequential things in the history of relationships. I mean, it doesnt really matter at all whether shes a virgin or not. The past has no place once youre married >> its time to start thinking about the present and the future.

We have this kind of mental sickness, where we think if a girl isnt a virgin then she is "corrupted" or ruined or spoiled. Thats absolute rubbish. Whether shes had sex before, or even a previous relationship, does not mean that her heart or mind is corrupted or spoiled.. it doesnt affect her ability to love you or be faithful to you in life.. it doesnt make her a ***** or a ****.

We like to call girls who lose their virginity before marriage *****s and ****s.. coz we think they are this venomous type of girl with no morals and doesnt deserve to be married or happy.. but when we use these insults, and condemn her as corrupted, we are only living in an imaginary fantasy world where women are defined by their sexual experience.

Something is definately wrong with marriage in general - it is an ancient relic from the days when we considered women and children to be our private property. Marriage is a way of controlling production of children, just like land ownership is a way of controlling production of vegetables.

When you worry about your girls virginity, its with that exact same mindset. You might not say it, but you do consider your girl to be your personal property.. thats the point behind saying "my" girl, "my" woman, "my" wife.. and that property has a very specific purpose: sexual production. You want it to be clean and specifically yours, thats why you guard her.

Im not saying its okay to sleep around, thats ethically wrong for several other reasons..... but we need to at least stop thinking we can control other human beings sexuality, and that starts with not being obsessed with your woman being a virgin or not.

Subhan Allah.

I don't get it. Men want virgins but it's okay for them to skank it. I hate that double standard BS!

PoisonIllusions, that double standard comes straight from the inequality of marriage.

What is marriage? Where does it come from? Why do we even have it?

It is the basis of patriarchal society, patriarchal economy, patriarchal politics.
Marriage is a way for men to control ownership of their property. No matter where you go in the world, this is basically what women and children are in marriage - just like land, vegetables, and animals, they are property. We might say its all equal and about love and respect and trust.. and all that bs.. but its really all about property.

Its not just cultures in the Middle East or Asia. Go around the world, its the same. Women are bound by a sense of family honour because their sexuality is owned - first protected by their fathers, then by their husbands.

Men are the opposite.. they are the actors in society, their exercise of sexuality is seen positively because it is not owned by anybody except themselves.

Thats why womens relationships with men are called "shame"
And mens relationsips with women are called "conquest"

senor sambra...you write a lot to read...

but ... wuts rong with wanting your wife to be virgin?

This 'obsession' as the way you call it is from the man's choice to have a pure wife who fears God. Not a lost woman who thinks this is the way to show 'equality'.

It is forbidden for both men and women to have relationships outside marriage. And it's not like a woman can't say No to a man who proposed to her if he was bad.

And marriage is not a way for men to control women, it is a Sunnah, and by it half of a person's religion is complete.

My personal opinion:

I believe that if I have pre-maritial sex, I am cheating on my wife even before I marry her. Just as I'm expecting her to be a virgin, so should I be.

UmKhalid

Each of your answers to me had a religious basis. Thats fine, if thats what you believe in, but people so often use religion in a discussion as if its going to be the final word and stop any future discussion on the issue. Its used to silence people who want to ask questions that are considered too "taboo" to ask.

Your assumptions on their own, when taken out of their religious clothing, are baseless:

1) Virginity does not equal purity.. purity is such a vague concept and can be defined in any way one wants
2) Virginity has nothing to do with fearing God.. one may fear God and still have lost their virginity
3) Marriage may be a sunnah and half of one's deen, thats perfect. It can still be a way of controlling women

Greetings,

Dear Sombra,

I'm a MAN and I don’t think the way you said I think. I don’t think that majority of us think like this for sure.

What do you call a girl whom slept with a guy and lost her virginity before marrige?

I'm a Muslim and we call her "a sinner" and god clearly said in quran that she is cursed and the relationship is cursed as well. How I can trust a girl whom let that happen? Why I would go for a girl like that and leave another girl whom didn’t do it?

Now don’t fire me back about guys getting un-virgin. There are many virgin men in Arab world whom know their god, so why you going after a non-virgin guy and not sticking yourself to a virgin one.

No matter what you will do or say, there will be many Males/Females committing this sin and you can’t stop it. The only thing you can do is know your god, Stay away from that sin and get your self a man whom knows his god. Please don’t give me this crap that ALL men don’t know their god.

You really need to re-define marriage, it’s totally wrong. I never saw a Man yet who think the way you said it.

Many guy and me think that marriage is the other half or our religion. A woman got rights and duties, the same goes for the man. Its never a property or a land as you called it, that it 100% wrong.

I don’t know your religion, I apologize if I was proposing my religion here, but this is all what I can offer in my argument. Woman is never a shame / they are protected by PARENTS or husband but it’s never domination and she is never a slave.

I feel that you been in a very tragedy experience there and I’m very sorry for you but life is not black or white.

UmKhalid
1) Virginity does not equal purity.. purity is such a vague concept and can be defined in any way one wants
2) Virginity has nothing to do with fearing God.. one may fear God and still have lost their virginity
3) Marriage may be a sunnah and half of one's deen, thats perfect. It can still be a way of controlling women

How you can fear god and do a big sin like this ?
You can never say " I kill people but I fear god" that is so ironic.

How can Marriage a way to control women ?

If that's what I believe in? I'm only assuming you are a Muslim and since you said: Deen, while I said Religion, then I guess you are. If so, then this must be what you believe in too, but if you don't, then that's not my problem.

Losing the virginity due to having pre-marital relationships and fearing God cannot go together. So you cannot say: She sleeps with other men, but Oh her heart and soul are so faithful to God.

Sure, she can repent and God forgives. But "La Yazni Al Zaani 7een yazni wahuwa mo2men" which can be translated to A zaani cannot be a believer while he is doing it.

Men have ALL the right to choose for themselves a woman who is faithful to God, fears him and stayed away from what He forbade. Nothing pointless about it.

Marriage is not a way to control women. If some men treat their wives badly it doesn't mean we could generalize the whole idea on it being that way.

lol EvilFire I may have had very tragic experiences in my life, but thats beside the point

Its too easy to say "this is 7araam, it is sin, so whoever does it is cursed". But don't just settle for saying something is a sin and leaving the issue at that.

Why is losing ones virginity a sin?
What makes it haraam?

And in regards to your other thoughts..

So a girl loses her virginity before marriage.. why does that mean you cant trust her? What on earth does that have to do with trust?

You talk about choosing between a virgin girl and a non-virgin, and say you'd never choose the latter for the former... why not? If the non-virgin has a better personality and is more loving, isnt that what counts?

How you can fear god and do a big sin like this ?
You can never say " I kill people but I fear god" that is so ironic.

Losing your virginity is not the same as killing somebody.
The two acts dont resemble each other in any way.

How can Marriage a way to control women ?

Easy.

When you get married a woman becomes your wife. She is now bound by a set of duties, and can be disciplined if she does not do what you tell her to. I don't want to take this discussion to quoting the Quran or books of hadith, so you'll just have to take my word for this. But it is not just a way of controlling women, more importantly its a way of controlling property - women have your children, and your property is handed down within the family from the women she gives you. This could not take place without marriage. The point is that marriage primarily exists in order to administer one's private property.

So a girl loses her virginity before marriage.. why does that mean you cant trust her? What on earth does that have to do with trust?


Because she didn't think of it as a sin to have a relationship before marriage.

And if she didn't really care about religion ... there's still the society, she didn't care about that either.

So no fear of God nor the feeling of shame would stop her. And she thinks a man who has never done this should trust her as a wife? A mother for his children?

Its a Sin and haram because god said so and I believe in god and Holu Quran.How I can trust a girl whom dont fear god !... I would go for a girl whom is virgin and knows her religion and have good personality.

We are not stoping at haram,I will just stay away from that sinner and get myself a good wife.I wish that god forgive the girl/guy whom did that sin and I hope that god give me the power to keep my family away from it.

Oh, if it is that way, then marriage is a way to control men too.

How is marriage a way to control men?

When a woman gets married the man becomes HER husband. He is now bound by a set of duties, and can be sent to court if he does not do his duties. He has now lost most of his privacy. His money has to be shared. He has more responsibilites, a wife at home to feed and take care of, not just himself. He is being responisble infront of God to give the wife all her rights. He has to educate her. When he has children, more responisiblities. Some nights he can't sleep thinking of what to do to bring in more money for his family. Educate his children. Play with them. Make them happy. Take care of their health ...

I can go on ...

So, if you're talking about the control from this point of view, then you must put in mind that even the man is being controlled by the responsibilites of this marriage.

Losing your virginity is not the same as killing somebody.
The two acts dont resemble each other in any way.



Easy.

When you get married a woman becomes your wife. She is now bound by a set of duties, and can be disciplined if she does not do what you tell her to. I don't want to take this discussion to quoting the Quran or books of hadith, so you'll just have to take my word for this. But it is not just a way of controlling women, more importantly its a way of controlling property - women have your children, and your property is handed down within the family from the women she gives you. This could not take place without marriage. The point is that marriage primarily exists in order to administer one's private property.

Both are sin's and I choose killing to show you how big this sin is. I finished reading Quran and read many "Hadeeth", I never read any thing about Men taking a woman as a land or a chair. A man got duties toward his wife and children and the woman got duties as well. Both work together or else it will never work. Respecting her husband and obey him is never a slavery action.

If that's what I believe in? I'm only assuming you are a Muslim and since you said: Deen, while I said Religion, then I guess you are. If so, then this must be what you believe in too, but if you don't, then that's not my problem.

Losing the virginity due to having pre-marital relationships and fearing God cannot go together. So you cannot say: She sleeps with other men, but Oh her heart and soul are so faithful to God.

Sure, she can repent and God forgives. But "La Yazni Al Zaani 7een yazni wahuwa mo2men" which can be translated to A zaani cannot be a believer while he is doing it.

Men have ALL the right to choose for themselves a woman who is faithful to God, fears him and stayed away from what He forbade. Nothing pointless about it.

Marriage is not a way to control women. If some men treat their wives badly it doesn't mean we could generalize the whole idea on it being that way.

Even if I am a Muslim, theres no reason why I cant question why something is a sin, theres no reason why I cant criticise institutions that are central to Islam... in fact Muslims need to question their religion more than non-Muslims too.

If you simply say "something is a sin", and never question why it is a sin, what are the underlying reasons.. well that would simply be blind faith.
I dont think youre the kind of person who would accept blind faith.. but you rather like to think youre a Muslim because you've made a rational and consciouse decision to be one.

Anyway back to the point:

Fearing God has nothing to do with being a virgin.

Someone might fear God but:
- be in a position where they couldnt control the situation
- not have a strong personality to resist whatever happens
- not quite understand Gods commandments.. its usually fear of cultural taboos rather than an understanding of shari3a law that stops people having sex

In other words.. not everyone who loses their virginity is a horny devil openly and consciously defying God, in order to be a rebel.. which is what you guys seem to imply

How in the world are you trying to pass this off as property? Really.. are you listening or reading what your saying or typing ;p I'm not sure what kind of relationship your parents have.. But MY moms not my dads property? She sure as hell isn't bound by a set of duties, and she WOULD NEVER be disciplined if she doesn't do what shes ASKED NOT TOLD if you would allow me to correct you... I think something happened in your life and your trying to make sense by trying to justify loosing your virginity for everyone else.. and THATS fiiiine if you don't care if your wifes a virgin or not but please dont tell us that by her staying one.. she becomes a property.. Cause We have choices hunnie and I'm sorry but no.. everything you wrote is so wrong on so many levels :p lol

If someone did not have any choice, like being raped, then it is a totally different case. But you are talking about how unfair it is for men to have relationships outside marriage while for women it is not, which is nonsense because it is equally forbidden for men and women. If a man decides to have it, then he has crossed his limits and will be punished. Same thing for the woman who does it.

Anyway, I found an online article about the reasons God forbade it.
Here. (http://vb.arabseyes.com/t576.html)

Dear,

1-Do you believe that losing virginity before marrige is a sin ?

2-ALL my friends "Males" whom I know since known dont agree that men controling woman by marrige and Un Khalid as a female saying thats not true.
What do you get from this ?

3-I totally 100% agree with you when you said " am a Muslim, theres no reason why I cant question why something is a sin",but there are clear statments in Quran which says that its a sin.. you dont question why he made it a sin ,but you may try to understand whats the wisdom behind it.One of gods name is " The Wisdom " and I dont think we can question that.I really support you in trying to understand what are the negative impacts for this sin.

4-
Someone might fear God but:
- be in a position where they couldnt control the situation
- not have a strong personality to resist whatever happens
- not quite understand Gods commandments.. its usually fear of cultural taboos rather than an understanding of shari3a law that stops people having sex


Why I marry a girl whom did this sin and she got such personality and leave another virgin girl whom didnt do it ?

I cant really judge on people whom dot understand god's commandments and avoiding un-virgin girl because of socity.That is a mind sickness and I'm against it like you.I stated that I'm a Muslim and many muslim guys I know whom agree with me and I choose "Right" and spare myself the modern confusion.

How in the world are you trying to pass this off as property? Really.. are you listening or reading what your saying or typing ;p I'm not sure what kind of relationship your parents have.. But MY moms not my dads property? She sure as hell isn't bound by a set of duties, and she WOULD NEVER be disciplined if she doesn't do what shes ASKED NOT TOLD if you would allow me to correct you... I think something happened in your life and your trying to make sense by trying to justify loosing your virginity for everyone else.. and THATS fiiiine if you don't care if your wifes a virgin or not but please dont tell us that by her staying one.. she becomes a property.. Cause We have choices hunnie and I'm sorry but no.. everything you wrote is so wrong on so many levels :p lol

Okay so everything I wrote is "so wrong on so many levels"

For some reason you seem to be offended by my posts.. but trying to analyse my mom and dad, and saying something happened in my life.. come on man, getting personal is always a bad sign in a discussion that is meant to be hypothetical.

There could be a lot of things that led me to think the way I do. Maybe I had a bad upbringing, maybe Im mentally retarded, maybe I lost my virginity or the girl I was engaged to did.... or maybe I read some books that question our culture, maybe I had friends with crazy ideas about society, maybe I've seen victims of rape or abuse suffer once they got married, because they arent virgins.... maybe Ive met some so-called "impure" and "corrupted" people who are better individuals than the so-called pure ones.

Theres a lot of things that could have led to me thinking like this. But no need for you to get personal.

^ You're a guy?

lol Hell yeah... otherwise I might be Señora Sombra

Sombra , I'm not attacking you or just arguing with you blindly.i'm very happy that you bringing this as a challenge.

Cheers.

... If a girl wrote this thread, I would understand, but a guy? What makes you think this is what we want as women?

If you don't care about a woman being a virgin or not, fine, that's just you. But it doesn't mean the whooole society is wrong, and you are right.

Okay so everything I wrote is "so wrong on so many levels"

For some reason you seem to be offended by my posts.. but trying to analyse my mom and dad, and saying something happened in my life.. come on man, getting personal is always a bad sign in a discussion that is meant to be hypothetical.

There could be a lot of things that led me to think the way I do. Maybe I had a bad upbringing, maybe Im mentally retarded, maybe I lost my virginity or the girl I was engaged to did.... or maybe I read some books that question our culture, maybe I had friends with crazy ideas about society, maybe I've seen victims of rape or abuse suffer once they got married, because they arent virgins.... maybe Ive met some so-called "impure" and "corrupted" people who are better individuals than the so-called pure ones.

Theres a lot of things that could have led to me thinking like this. But no need for you to get personal.

No your right and for that I apologize.. Cause Seriously I have no right to "Assume" any of that.. But I'm just tired of people thinking us woman have it so bad.. and We can't make our own choice or whatever it may be. Like I said if you don't care that's your decision to make.. It won't effect me one way or the other.. But just like you think a certain way other people will think differently.. and EVERYBODYS situatuon is different so we won't all think the same or see eye to eye and it'll come down to each his own in the end ;p

... If a girl wrote this thread, I would understand, but a guy? What makes you think this is what we want as women?

Well, I never addressed anything that women would want.. I was addressing how guys view women.

The fact is that women are more responsible than guys are for being second-class citizens in society, since women exercise sexist stereotypes against their fellow women just as much (if not more) than men do. The replies in this topic are proof of that. But that is a seperate topic

But it doesn't mean the whooole society is wrong, and you are right.

That same statement could be reproduced for basically everyone else on the forum, including yourself. Everyone has an opinion and considers themselves to be right.

But I'm just tired of people thinking us woman have it so bad.. and We can't make our own choice or whatever it may be.

That is the problem exactly, and we need to start moving away from complaining about the problems and we need to move onto solutions.

I hate to hear ppl saying "women have it so bad as well".. Muslims have it so bad.. Indians have it so bad.. Iraqis have it so bad.. black people have it so bad.. gays have it so bad.. refugees have it so bad.. complain complain, it starts to annoy you.

But the reason there is so much complaining, is because there is a problem which needs to be dealt with. You never say "whats right with my car", you say whats wrong with it, cause youre interested in fixing it not praising it.

But women have more power than men do in destroying stereotypes and sexist behaviour in society.. even if men created many of the problems, it is women.. mothers in law to daughters in law.. mothers to daughters.. sisters to sisters.. who keep these sexist attitudes against themselves.

Solutions need to come at these levels of the family, just as much as they need to come from men.. husbands.. fathers.. and brothers

My friend,I dont think you can represent me nor the guys in general.I will be very sad if more guys agree your views.I dont understand the tragedy you been in.I just advice you to think in what we wrote and have a second thought :)

Sombra , I'm not attacking you or just arguing with you blindly.i'm very happy that you bringing this as a challenge.

Cheers.

Hey thats a really nice thing to say, thanks :)

No need to think of it as a challenge... just a different perspective on things

That is the problem exactly, and we need to start moving away from complaining about the problems and we need to move onto solutions.

I hate to hear ppl saying "women have it so bad as well".. Muslims have it so bad.. Indians have it so bad.. Iraqis have it so bad.. black people have it so bad.. gays have it so bad.. refugees have it so bad.. complain complain, it starts to annoy you.

But the reason there is so much complaining, is because there is a problem which needs to be dealt with. You never say "whats right with my car", you say whats wrong with it, cause youre interested in fixing it not praising it.

But women have more power than men do in destroying stereotypes and sexist behaviour in society.. even if men created many of the problems, it is women.. mothers in law to daughters in law.. mothers to daughters.. sisters to sisters.. who keep these sexist attitudes against themselves.

Solutions need to come at these levels of the family, just as much as they need to come from men.. husbands.. fathers.. and brothers

Yeah I agree with you completly with "being tired".. But you see it depends on the person cause with me I don't do any complaining.. My life is in my own hands and I'm taking control.. and anytime anyone says anything.. I go wait a minute.. Maybe thats the case for other women but believe me it's not going down with me.. and I believe if anyone has a problem or they hate something.. They can change it for the better.. But it's alot easier to sit back and complain rather than take action.. and I blame some of the women for not making a change happen for themselves.. Cause if they want a change than they have to make it happen.. Otherwise it's not gonna change on it's own

EvilFire just said this is not how guys see it. Which brings it back to you, you only see it this way.

And I thought this was something serious ...

I'm done discussing here.

I had a fight with my friends about this not about marriage anyway but it had the same point!
I don't like it... How come "guys" can do what they want but "girls" have to do what the guy says?!
I have been fighting with my friends and they think they are right but in the end everyone has their opinions...

What can we do except try hard to show everyone what is right and wrong..

I think everyone should be at the same level as they want others to be... :mmhmm:

My friend,I dont think you can represent me nor the guys in general.I will be very sad if more guys agree your views.I dont understand the tragedy you been in.I just advice you to think in what we wrote and have a second thought :)

Dude, I dont need to represent men in general.. I dont really care on how they reflect on their relationships.
My words are what I believe to be a generalisation on the institution of marriage and cultural artefact of virginity. I think they are structures and symbols we have set up in society.. but now they control the way we act and behave. Im perfectly within my right in thinking the way I do, and perfectly capable of making a reasonable generalisation.

When a guy talks about how he relates to his woman, what hes really talking about is how he thinks he relates to her - because the way people think about how they act are usually very different from the acts themselves.. people justify them in ways that make them happy and feel secure, and dont question the bases upon which their lives are built.. i.e. culture and religion.. in other words, people usually come up with justifications that do not really reflect reality, but only keep them secure and happy.

Nice words and lots of text you wrote there. You have full right to represent yourself and speak your opinion. I’m just saying that you are confusing yourself and marriage is not slavery and being un-virgin is a sin. Our culture agree on that and you are miss-understanding the facts.

I’m done too *grin*

^ LOOOOL

So allow me to ask you.. Do you have any suggestions for changes?

Yeah I agree with you completly with "being tired".. But you see it depends on the person cause with me I don't do any complaining.. My life is in my own hands and I'm taking control.. and anytime anyone says anything.. I go wait a minute.. Maybe thats the case for other women but believe me it's not going down with me.. and I believe if anyone has a problem or they hate something.. They can change it for the better.. But it's alot easier to sit back and complain rather than take action.. and I blame some of the women for not making a change happen for themselves.. Cause if they want a change than they have to make it happen.. Otherwise it's not gonna change on it's own

I really agree with you on all of that

I have to say it like this... I used to believe in destiny, like that my life is completely controlled externally, and I dont have power over anything.. sometimes I believed it was God who had determined the course of my life, then I started believing that it was genetics and culture and upbringing that controlled how I behave..

But now I have to believe that I have control, I have the power, even when I dont.. I have to believe I can change things, even if Im a small speck of dust dancing in the morning sunlight.. because unless we believe we have the power to change things, nothing will ever be changed.

I also strongly believe that many things about our human culture is not right.. they need to be reformed around equality, rights, welfare, so that everyone has a peaceful and meaningful existence.. and I really believe that this is possible to achieve, only if each and every person takes the position that we take >> that they are able to change themselves and society for the better

Speaking in general, If you're a virgin then you have every right to care about your partner being a virgin as well..otherwise if you're not then just shut up about it. I have no respect for people who play around and then expect to get married to a saint.

I personally believe that whether you are a virgin or not, is not an appropriate scale to define a person personality against. Your virginity or your sexual experiences tells you nothing of that person. However, on a social and a religious basis, the implication is what harms the woman's reputation (more than the man's). As others have shown in this thread, the fact that she sins constantly (not sinned only once) implies that she does not fear God, and most people would not want a significant other who does not fear God. Because then, they can easily do anything whether God forbids it or not. I'm not saying that people who do not believe in God, do these things, but it is most likely to be prevented when you've some sort of restrain (i.e. religion) against temptations. An example would be: "I would not cheat on my husband because adultery is a grave sin, and I would be punished in the hereafter because of my believe in God and my fear of his punishment".

A woman who did lose her virginity is not corrupted, neither it is fair to call her spoiled. One needs to study her circumstances. Did she repent? Does she think it is wrong now? Was she forced? Was she young and naive? One can't judge her so quickly. Also, a man who is not a virgin should know better than to judge a girl who lost her virginity. If we are implying that females who lose their virginity do not fear God, then the same needs to be applied to boys. And we as women should not accept men who don't fear God! A man who is not a virgin has no right to judge nor make it a condition that his future partner should be a virgin.

When it comes to marriage, I agree with Senor that a person looking for a life partner should look at their personality, not their sexual experiences. Even she did make such a "mistake" in the past, she can still be the best possible wife and mother to you. It's how she is now, not what she did. Surprisingly people do change, people do become better and if God can forgive them and not judge them on their past, who are you to do it?

I also do see what Senor means about marriage being a way to administer properties and he did explain it well. After all, it is a system created to keep humans in place and organized. However, I would like to add that it works both ways; not only to women. He is also "my" man, "my" husband and "my" lover. It doesn't mean you control them like a Barbie doll, because God knows you can't. Therefore, it is best just to live with each other trying to please one another and grow together as a couple. If I die, my husband inherits my wealth so do my children, just like when my husband dies, I inherit his properties and my children too. What I am trying to say is that it works both ways.

Marriage is a way to organize our world which is prone to chaos. We can't live like animals. We need to know who belongs to whom at all times. Are you going to say also, that the fact that I'm Omani means that the country of Oman was created only to control its citizens? In some ways yes, but in most No. At the end of the day, it is a mechanism invented or ways in which a human being can live collectively and at peace. It's a way to survive and give one their identity. No man is an island, therefore marriage accommodates our natural needs. Perhaps the fact that life for the past thousands of years was dominated by men, makes you feel that it is a way to control women. But honey, it is kinda far from truth where I come from. I see more women controlling men through marriage than the other way around. Don't underestimate the power of the so called weaker sex :p.

^ LOOOOL

So allow me to ask you.. Do you have any suggestions for changes?

Definately.

I think this is the responsibility of Social Development ministries.. which are relatively new, but do exist in many countries.. they are responsible to lead campaigns in all cultural media with the expressed purpose of..

Breaking the taboo around sex, making it more acceptable for people to talk about it and discuss it.. because as long as people cant talk about it, the easier it is for bad people to take advantage of that.. how do child molestors and rapists get away with their crimes 95% of the time? The victims are too scared to come forward, because of the shame that will bring on them, because they are scared of being blamed, because "some things arent discussed"... yeah coz Ive talked to girls who told me they were abused when they were younger, but they never told anyone because "you just dont tell people"

This whole thing about seeing virgins as pure and non-virgins as corrupt is directly affecting the above.. at the level of justice.. so campaigns need to revolve around breaking down stereotypes, making sexual slurs and insults completely unacceptable to say.. Yeah and etc..

Definately.

I think this is the responsibility of Social Development ministries.. which are relatively new, but do exist in many countries.. they are responsible to lead campaigns in all cultural media with the expressed purpose of..

Breaking the taboo around sex, making it more acceptable for people to talk about it and discuss it.. because as long as people cant talk about it, the easier it is for bad people to take advantage of that.. how do child molestors and rapists get away with their crimes 95% of the time? The victims are too scared to come forward, because of the shame that will bring on them, because they are scared of being blamed, because "some things arent discussed"... yeah coz Ive talked to girls who told me they were abused when they were younger, but they never told anyone because "you just dont tell people"

This whole thing about seeing virgins as pure and non-virgins as corrupt is directly affecting the above.. at the level of justice.. so campaigns need to revolve around breaking down stereotypes, making sexual slurs and insults completely unacceptable to say.. Yeah and etc..

I feel like this can all start in a place that hit's closer to one than the "Social Development ministries" do and that's home.. Your parent's can easily talk to you about these sort of things.. But yet most parent's don't.. Out of all my friends I don't think anyone is able to go to both parent's and be able to talk about Sex freely..

I hold no shame in saying both my parents have discussed it with me openly.. They've made it where if I had any questions or concerns.. That i'd be able to go to both or either one and ask whatever it was I had to ask..

And I think more people should make it that way with their parents.. If your more open with them and actually discuss things.. Than you'll have no problem to confront them when a problem arises.. or if God forbids you get attacked.. Cause There shouldn't be any shame in that. Afterall that wasn't something you had controle over ! But I definitely would admit.. That there would be issues.. If it was something that happened to a girl by "CHOICE" and not by force !

What is marriage? Where does it come from? Why do we even have it?

Marriage is a way for men to control ownership of their property. No matter where you go in the world,

What is your suggestion?
Lesbian and homosexual?

Señor Sombra....

1- Virginity of a woman is the 'seal of quality'. You don't buy an open can of Pepsi whatever the reason will be right?

2- Woman are not like men, women can be in big trouble with more than a man in a raw. So if we leave it to the judgment of the lady, then make sure that a woman may have slept with another man a few weeks before her marriage ... so the baby is the son of who? In Islam it is very important to know who is the mother and sister of who. YOu can't marry a woman who is your sister your mother. So a woman must document who is she sleeping with in a book to know that..(Crazy)! So it is better to stay a virgin to avoid such huge problem.

3- Men who do women out of their virginity are good enough and kind enough to marry such of the same type. So don't worry about non-virgin women because they will find a matching companion.

4- Men who belive they can have sex with women and then when it comes to marriage they get a virgin is 'NOT' only because they want a 'pure' lady. They do that because they are bastards and they want to make sure that they get a woman that wasn't in a relation before. It is like a thief who thinks that everyone walking in the street is a thief like him.

5- Good men "NATURALLY" will pick up virgins because mostly they will be with a no previous relation. True that a woman can do sex without losing her virginity but the percentage is smaller to have a woman who is virgin and had 'many sexual relations'.

6- Even a woman or a girl who is still virgin most probably won't face a problem of claiming a baby is her's or a man is her husband. In Islam a woman can marry only one man, and that is very important. So a big solid proof for a woman who didn't marry before that this is her first time.

7- Thought virginity won't prevent bad manner nor prove good manners but, at least in (our community) a woman who cares' about this matter (virginity) is far better than the one who don't. And for sure the one who is not virgin had by nature more sexually interactively than the other (talking generally).

8- Men know very well that a woman who have full sex for once, most probably should do it again. The woman who had courage or was so much involved in a love relation with so much open doors will most probably fall in such a situation. So in contrast the one who doesn't most probably won't.

9-Women are by far more than men in count, so with some calculation it will be very much true that purification needs a criterion so much to have number one in the list of filtering levels 'virginity'.

10- Virgins are not like non-virgins in many aspects. ONe major aspect is the 'satisfaction' level. A woman may get in a relation that will forever lock her to a level of satisfaction. Especially when God made such a relation tied up strongly with very intimate emotions. You can see this very clearly in widows or previously married women. They tend to compare (even if they do not speak it) between her current man and previous one. This comparison will always come with many complications and problems. You understand what I say. But with a virgin, the first experience is the only experience so satisfaction is garenteed because knowledge is limited and that is really a 'bless'.

11- Virgins are more shy, tender and charming. It is very obvious the looks of the eyes of a virgin and the none virgin so, men need such shyness to prove their manhood and satisfaction. IT is difficult to describe but easy to feel.

12- Last, is the very very very basic concept which is: "Why should I marry a non-virgin while I can marry a virgin?" So if it is considered a level of virtueness by the community why not just take it along in the package?

One thing I forgot to add:

A corrupt community is not like a clean community. Our clean communities do hold rare cases of non-virgins, who's probably and most likely corrupt and bad. So most likely also a virgin is to be pure and honest and politely brought up.

In other corrupt communities virgins and non-virgins do share the same level of corruption. So picking any of them (as you said) won't really mean any difference. So the one who is not a non-virgin will probably be doing it because she had the chance while the virgin didn't had the chance to have sex with a guy still she wanted that very much. So it is really different from one community to another.

I wasn't gonna post in this thread as most of the replies are similar to my view. But after I've read this:

" Virginity of a woman is the 'seal of quality'. You don't buy an open can of Pepsi whatever the reason will be right?"

I mean COME OOOON, why do u guys compare girls to cars, pepsi cans etc? we're not objects! Plus there is no comparison whatsoever!

Señor Sombra....

1- Virginity of a woman is the 'seal of quality'. You don't buy an open can of Pepsi whatever the reason will be right?

Your relationship with a woman is not like buying a can of pepsi.
This is how marriage turns into ownership.. this is how people start to view it.. "Im buying a product, I need to make sure it is pure and in the best condition"

2- Woman are not like men, women can be in big trouble with more than a man in a raw. So if we leave it to the judgment of the lady, then make sure that a woman may have slept with another man a few weeks before her marriage ... so the baby is the son of who? In Islam it is very important to know who is the mother and sister of who. YOu can't marry a woman who is your sister your mother. So a woman must document who is she sleeping with in a book to know that..(Crazy)! So it is better to stay a virgin to avoid such huge problem.

Dealt with in the first posts

3- Men who do women out of their virginity are good enough and kind enough to marry such of the same type. So don't worry about non-virgin women because they will find a matching companion.

Completely untrue. The world is not magical. Virgins dont automatically end up with virgins, while non-virgins end up with non-virgins.
Even if that were the case, its a pretty ridiculous way of deciding who to marry.

"Yeah mom Im gonna marry her.. shes a non-virgin and so am I, you see we share so much in common, forget about personality and looks and love... I think the fact we are both non-virgins means were right for each other"

4- Men who belive they can have sex with women and then when it comes to marriage they get a virgin is 'NOT' only because they want a 'pure' lady. They do that because they are bastards and they want to make sure that they get a woman that wasn't in a relation before. It is like a thief who thinks that everyone walking in the street is a thief like him.

Someone who sleeps around, yet goes around saying they want a "pure" lady is exactly the B word you described. The latter is a one word description of the former.

By the way, your thief analogy had nothing to do with the point you were trying to make.

5- Good men "NATURALLY" will pick up virgins because mostly they will be with a no previous relation. True that a woman can do sex without losing her virginity but the percentage is smaller to have a woman who is virgin and had 'many sexual relations'.

"Good men naturally pick up virgins"

Nonsense.

6- Even a woman or a girl who is still virgin most probably won't face a problem of claiming a baby is her's or a man is her husband. In Islam a woman can marry only one man, and that is very important. So a big solid proof for a woman who didn't marry before that this is her first time.

Sorry..? Didnt quite understand that one.

7- Thought virginity won't prevent bad manner nor prove good manners but, at least in (our community) a woman who cares' about this matter (virginity) is far better than the one who don't. And for sure the one who is not virgin had by nature more sexually interactively than the other (talking generally).

First, you really do not know - from all the girls you met - who is a virgin and who isnt. You might think youre able to tell by looking at a girl, her friends, how she dresses, or how she speaks. But you cant. Those are stereotypes, not indicators of virginity, and thats part of the problem.

So since you dont know whose a virgin or not, youre in no position to say that virgins in your community are far better than non-virgins.

8- Men know very well that a woman who have full sex for once, most probably should do it again. The woman who had courage or was so much involved in a love relation with so much open doors will most probably fall in such a situation. So in contrast the one who doesn't most probably won't.

I dont think the situation you described represents anything in reality.
I can think of a number of situations where the woman involved in a sexual relationship might only do it once before marriage. Even if she did engage in it multiple times, thats no reason to suspect she would be unfaithful after marriage.

Thats how guys who havent known any women imagine women to be.. but it doesnt reflect any relationship Ive ever heard of.

9-Women are by far more than men in count, so with some calculation it will be very much true that purification needs a criterion so much to have number one in the list of filtering levels 'virginity'.

lol.. where do you come up with this stuff?

10- Virgins are not like non-virgins in many aspects. ONe major aspect is the 'satisfaction' level. A woman may get in a relation that will forever lock her to a level of satisfaction. Especially when God made such a relation tied up strongly with very intimate emotions. You can see this very clearly in widows or previously married women. They tend to compare (even if they do not speak it) between her current man and previous one. This comparison will always come with many complications and problems. You understand what I say. But with a virgin, the first experience is the only experience so satisfaction is garenteed because knowledge is limited and that is really a 'bless'.

This is also untrue.

Girls who have had more than one relationship - even widows - in my experience are nicer human beings than those who have never been in any relationship. They are able to talk and relate to others better.

11- Virgins are more shy, tender and charming. It is very obvious the looks of the eyes of a virgin and the none virgin so, men need such shyness to prove their manhood and satisfaction. IT is difficult to describe but easy to feel.

You need a girl who is shy to prove your manhood?
Has manhood come down to such a low point that we only feel like men around girls who are shy and clinging off us. Personally I feel more like a man when Im with a strong independent woman, who looks in my eye and says what she want.
Not a girl whos shy and giggles and looks away from me when I greet her. I feel like a daddy when I come across these kind of girls, even when theyre the same age as me.

12- Last, is the very very very basic concept which is: "Why should I marry a non-virgin while I can marry a virgin?" So if it is considered a level of virtueness by the community why not just take it along in the package?

Why should you marry a non-virgin when you can marry a virgin?
What, are you going shopping for a wife? Looking them over.. weighing up their virtues.. wanting the best value for your hard earned dollars?

Forget about virginity coz its not a good standard to base someones ability to be good to you on. Theres no reason to believe that non-virgins are any less loving, faithful, tender, charming, or whatever. Shouldnt even be an issue to consider when you purchase your wife.

What is your suggestion?
Lesbian and homosexual?

LOL.. lesbian and homosexual.. as a suggestion to what?
What are you talking about?
We are talking about virginity in this topic.

I feel like this can all start in a place that hit's closer to one than the "Social Development ministries" do and that's home.. Your parent's can easily talk to you about these sort of things.. But yet most parent's don't.. Out of all my friends I don't think anyone is able to go to both parent's and be able to talk about Sex freely..

I hold no shame in saying both my parents have discussed it with me openly.. They've made it where if I had any questions or concerns.. That i'd be able to go to both or either one and ask whatever it was I had to ask..

And I think more people should make it that way with their parents.. If your more open with them and actually discuss things.. Than you'll have no problem to confront them when a problem arises.. or if God forbids you get attacked.. Cause There shouldn't be any shame in that. Afterall that wasn't something you had controle over ! But I definitely would admit.. That there would be issues.. If it was something that happened to a girl by "CHOICE" and not by force !

I really agree with you..
I like to say things like social development ministries, coz it makes me feel like Im discussing something official and important.. LOL... but seriously

Youre right >> it all has to begin at the level of the home, and how fathers, mothers, and siblings relate to each other. This is really the basis for everything else that happens in society. If you look at our governments, communities, or even this Sabla.. they are all based upon the family structure.

A lot of people talk about dictatorship and democracy, fundamentalism, and these kinds of things.. as if dealing with them at that level will solve problems in society. But there can never be truly representative participatory democracy a the level of government, until it exists at the level of family. Change has to come from the grass roots level.. not from a top down hierarchy.

So Sombra,

From all of this, i deduce that you dont mind getting married to a B****? Am i right in saying that?

Would you actually marry a girl who's been sleeping around with guys randomly, just cause she's bored and has nothing else to do?
How can you trust her with your life? children? wealth? love? everything...

What if she walks out on you the next morning, then what? lol

In my point of view, I hink that men whom seek for virgin women should be virgins themselves, if not they have absolutely no right to demand for such thing :)

So Sombra,

From all of this, i deduce that you dont mind getting married to a B****? Am i right in saying that?

Would you actually marry a girl who's been sleeping around with guys randomly, just cause she's bored and has nothing else to do?
How can you trust her with your life? children? wealth? love? everything...

What if she walks out on you the next morning, then what? lol

First, dont ever use the word B**** in relation to a woman, unless you are using it in the right context.

A b**** is a female dog. When its used insultingly to refer to women, it refers to someone whos always moody, yells for no reason, is nasty to people behind their backs, and basically is a horrible person to be around.

You on the other hand, are using it to refer to someone who lost their virginity. You need to go back and check the dictionary.

Second.. your assumption on why someone would lose their virginity seems to come from Mars or Jupiter or some other far off planet. It doesnt resemble reality in any way.

People dont usually "sleep around randomly, because they are bored and having nothing else to do". I know a lot of people, but I dont know anyone who fits that description.

But Bombra...

1. You still didnt answer any of my questions...

2. Who told you that girls dont sleep around just for fun? Are you sure your not living in disney land?
We are in the 21st century god dammit, where girls have officailly lost it.

My point is, I dont see why you would trust a "non-virgin" ,as you would put it, with everything when you know very well that she's been around other guys, other sleeping pals if it suites you lol

What if one day, you meet with sleeping pal 1 or 2 or 3? How would you feel?

Yes my friend. Your wife has been sleeping around with a dozen other men, just before she met your sorry ***. :cute:

First, dont ever use the word B**** in relation to a woman, unless you are using it in the right context.
Which would be in ?!
The day she betrays the relationship she's in with and sleeps with a 'pal' .. right?!
And dude, u can't assume that u know whole universe and say that no one sleeps for fun ! People are making porn movies out of boredom nowadays, talking about sleeping with each other?! lol.

Well my friend, IF u're saying that a 'B****" is a female dog and who's moody.. then what u'll call a girl who sleeps with dozzens while she's actually IN a relationship, inlighten us please.

First: Long now you are accusing men to be buying an object when they pick up the right wife. And sure it is a good argument to convince 'tiny minded' teens around that you should skip all qualities of a woman while deciding to marry one. This will make some think: "Yah women aren't objects" great but is it that 'only objects' that we check for its qualities?

When you want to have a friend you won't accept a thief or a criminal to be your friend right? Still he isn't a can of peopsi nor a car? But yes you must chose whom you call friend, now what about wife? This woman you will make her your wife will be so much involved in your life. She will raise up your kids and will have your name tied to her which means what bad she may do will be reflected on you and your family.

You want to close your eyes on that lady's history just to prove yourself 'highly spiritual' then good, how long will you able to pretend? Sure after sometime you will be sorry and by then it will be too late.

The truth is that(I know that many will be shocked) marriage is a bargain which you get involved in so you have to make the right decision. Not all marriages nor even half of them are bases on love. Many times there is no chance for such a luxury. So if you love a woman and you are sure that she made "one" mistake then fine go ahead and marry her. But don't accuse the others to be unfair just because they don't do the same.

And yes, when you marry a woman you possess her, you have your rights to order her and she must follow what you say. Either you like it or not that is the successful house will be, a man is the dominating power. Houses with weaker fathers / husbands are doomed to failure even if the mother was so much controlling and successful.

It seems that you are trying with an argument to prove something to yourself or even to prove your ability to 'defend' your point. But from your replies to my previous post I can see that you are taking no effort even to spend sometime thinking rather you hurry up with 'replying'. With every rule we have exceptions and you (sadly) make these exceptions so much like the norm. When I say something you just contradict it just for the sake of contradiction. Honest women are always virgins that is 100%. We are not dealing with 1% of those who have very good ethics and did a mistake and they really repented from it.

Don't say again that it is not a must that clean tidy house will contain germs as same as a garbage place. it is good to mention the exceptions but it is very false to use them as proof for your points of view.

Señor Sombra....

1- Virginity of a woman is the 'seal of quality'. You don't buy an open can of Pepsi whatever the reason will be right?



That really cracked me up, I never thought of it that way.

The good news is nowadays there are a lot of girls in the west who pledge to remain chaste until marriage. There are religious and social groups which encourage that as well. I hope this trend continues.

That really cracked me up, I never thought of it that way.

I know that the statement you quoted above could be somehow inappropriate or insulting for a woman, but my words were just to clarify a point of view not to mock or make fun or anything of that type. Out of full respect I honor the woman is our mother, sister, wife and daughter. We highly appreciate them and value them.

I know that the statement you quoted above could be somehow inappropriate or insulting for a woman, but my words were just to clarify a point of view not to mock or make fun or anything of that type. Out of full respect I honor the woman is our mother, sister, wife and daughter. We highly appreciate them and value them.


The statement YOU posted above IS (not could) highly offensive to women. How can you compare a woman to a commodity?

The statement YOU posted above IS (not could) highly offensive to women. How can you compare a woman to a commodity?OK so what? I did, so live with it.

[When you apologize some will take advantage]

Haroundb

I just realised that I mis-read your statement, when you said "The statement you quoted above above" I read it as "The statement you wrote above".

Its my fault, I sincerely apologise.

Haroundb

I just realised that I mis-read your statement, when you said "The statement you quoted above above" I read it as "The statement you wrote above".

Its my fault, I sincerely apologise.I appreciate that, you are a nice man, it was just a misunderstanding.

With all respect.

Numbers 31:17-18 (New International Version)

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

My personal opinion:

I believe that if I have pre-maritial sex, I am cheating on my wife even before I marry her. Just as I'm expecting her to be a virgin, so should I be.


I tottaly agree with Rossonero, To add something Zinah is forbbiden and there is so many ayat in the Holy Quran that says Zinah is forbbiden

But with a virgin, the first experience is the only experience so satisfaction is garenteed because knowledge is limited and that is really a 'bless'.
I laughed so hard

^^ Maybe his phrasing is funny, but I get what he is saying.

When you've never had sex, you can't compare the sex you've with your husband to anyone else. So you won't know if it's good or not. Whatever you get will satisfy you at the beginning since you are inexperienced. I think that is what Haroundb meant. But then this works both ways. If your husband is not a virgin, he can always compare you to his previous lovers, and how would you know if you are any good compared to his exes or one night stands or whatever? So Haroundb's point is irrelevant.

I always notice in these discussions, the arguments for female virginity first start off quoting religous scriptures, then always lead into emotional arguments that reveal insecurity and jealousy.

I know that people try to mask their negative feelings by pointing to "higher powers" as justification.

Now... man or woman it doesn't make a difference. But for a woman as 'nature' speaks a woman can bare more consequences than a man. A man can put the seed and go away, while the woman will -till end of life- bare the duties to nourish this seed and suffer (alone) with it.

We must confess the nature of a woman which she is the one who carry the kids inside her. She must be very sure of whom is touching her land. A bad see will give a weak or harmful tree.

I wish I find a word to phrase it out clearly without harming anyone...

Let us say, "women's mistake is far expensive than man's". So what is not logical in this?

^ No I get you, but I am talking about the "satisfaction" part.

Satisfaction was just a way to say a virgin is more successful in marriage life than non-virgin, and that is why virgins are more favorable for a man.

Which would be in ?!
The day she betrays the relationship she's in with and sleeps with a 'pal' .. right?!
And dude, u can't assume that u know whole universe and say that no one sleeps for fun ! People are making porn movies out of boredom nowadays, talking about sleeping with each other?! lol.

Well my friend, IF u're saying that a 'B****" is a female dog and who's moody.. then what u'll call a girl who sleeps with dozzens while she's actually IN a relationship, inlighten us please.

This post is off topic.

We are talking about virginity, and you are talking about wives who cheat on their partners. The two are not synonymous with each other, and if thats what you are suggesting, then you need to start a thread specifically related to cheating.

Did you bother reading the first post in this topic? I said that sleeping around is ethically wrong for a number of reasons. I never advocated it in any way.

But Bombra...

1. You still didnt answer any of my questions...

2. Who told you that girls dont sleep around just for fun? Are you sure your not living in disney land?
We are in the 21st century god dammit, where girls have officailly lost it.

My point is, I dont see why you would trust a "non-virgin" ,as you would put it, with everything when you know very well that she's been around other guys, other sleeping pals if it suites you lol

What if one day, you meet with sleeping pal 1 or 2 or 3? How would you feel?

Yes my friend. Your wife has been sleeping around with a dozen other men, just before she met your sorry ***. :cute:

lol who said I have to answer your questions? The reason I didnt answer them is because they were pointless questions with poor assumptions behind them.

You ask how I could trust a woman who slept around before she met me. Why wouldnt I be able to trust her? Just because she isnt a virgin doesnt mean she is incapable of being faithful, and if thats what you are suggesting, then you probably have no experience with women. My impression is that the majority of women, once they have committed themselves to a guy, will stay faithful to him no matter what their past history is.

Let me ask you a question.

How can you trust the virgin you marry, that she wont cheat on you?
Its really a stupid question to ask because we are making generalisations on someones character based on their history.

Now let me tell you something realistic.

If a girl cheats on you, its got less to do with her personality, and more to do with yours. If you are hardly home, nasty to her, beat her, if you are over jealous and keep suspecting her for everything, if you are selfish... these are the things that makes a girl cheat on you.

Be a proper real man, and no matter what her past history is she'll probably be faithful.

Numbers 31:17-18 (New International Version)

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

A very good reason for me not to become a Jew or Christian.. lol

I always notice in these discussions, the arguments for female virginity first start off quoting religous scriptures, then always lead into emotional arguments that reveal insecurity and jealousy.

I know that people try to mask their negative feelings by pointing to "higher powers" as justification.

Exactly right.

Behind it all is insecurity and jealousy. But people dont admit that, because it would make them a weak person. So they appeal to religion and maintainance of cultural tradition, in an attempt to disguise their insecurities as some greater good.

People who are uptight about stuff like this are the very ones who will get cheated on.

People who are uptight about stuff like this are the very ones who will get cheated on.
That is an assumption for sure.

Now I can't imagine a free man who can marry a woman who stripped naked in front of a foreign guy and also had complete 'SEX' with him including all the details that we all know. Sure as a virgin she have bleeded, and felt some type of pain ... I think all married girls know that the first time is not a really enjoyable one, so girls who do this for sure if not being raped or forced, sure do it for their knowledge of the future pleasures. So I have no even a small doubt that a virgin who agrees to have sex and loses her virginity for sure won't have sex just for one time but for many many times.

Now I just wonder in a community like ours, how will she act when she see that man 'again'? Will it be the same as if she 'only' loved him without sexual intercourses? I think this needs a revision of thought.

I see Women are treated unfair in some cases such as:


1 ) If NON-Virgin MAN gets married to a Virgin WOWMEN. Many wife’s bypass it easier as will the society, and consider that was mistakes of the past. On the other hand, no one will pass it this way for a women and she most probably be killed if not by her family or by the society.

2) The man who is not virgin, once he is done with a woman without marriage “ HE “ calls her a “ *****” even if he gone through the same process with many other girls. On the other hand, he forgets what he should call him self in return. Instead many “MEN”, find how MANY women they’ve gone OVER is a mean of BEING A MAN.

3) Many men marry without knowing their wives, they may only look at her once. They base their judgment on virginity and reputation. How do you want them not to consider her as a car, how is it functioned and how the car reputation does it function good. On the other hand, women accept based on how is his reputation as will but with fewer specifications ( about virginity its hard for her to know if he is virgin or not for sure even after marriage ) while, men can know it most of the time after marriage if not before. That means even women consider a man a property. Some how in this case, you can’t say who is not fair. They both fair to each other into some extend.


END<<<<<<

I believe in Karma - What you do is what you get return.

I don't believe one marries and the wife becomes property, she becomes a partner. I strongly believe your not married and considerably young (by mentality and/or age) to say such a thing and the children are the fruit of that partnership.

If I had pre-marital sex with another female before getting married to my future wife, by all means I would expect the same in return from wife-to-be, I would not deserve a virgin wife if I did that. Moreover even if I'm a virgin when getting married and my wife turns out to be a non-virgin, I would accept her because I would already know that I'm the only one she loves and it is her who would give birth to my children and would stay by my side for life.

The whole concept you have stated is perfectly a thought maybe 50 years earlier time period, not this era and it has strong emotional ideas. Sit back relax think about it calmly.

Astagh'firullah!!!!!!

What really pisses me off is the fact that he gets to sleep around and never gets caught! I mean how can you possibly tell if a guy has been sleeping around or not unless he's like known for being sexually active. So poor wifey so loyal and decicated while her husband is a total ******* who did every single girl out there without her knowing. Sometimes I feel this whole thing is just unjust!

Some guys are really hard to trust .. you know with dead consciences. They sleep around and easily get away with it.

Mesmie, why so pissed off about them getting away!
They never can hide it from god.They will be punished more for the lie.

You are not saying that if you had the option to hide it then you would feel more happy ?

I mean you should be happy that you as a female cant hide it,this gives you another shield beside your fear to god.If your are too weak and you forgot to fear god then you will have this other fear of getting busted.