Cults

[Geya]

Hey ya'll,

Well I was in Anthropology class and my teacher was talkin about Cults, i dont know much about em and i searched websites but it wouldn’t give me wut my teacher said that a cult is where something like taken a religion too far or something like that like there was an example of a guy that kind of brainwashed ppl into believe they should kill themselves and basically they ALL killed themselves because to them he was"GOD"

anyhow Question is if anyone knows more about Cults and a good definition can u plz tell me, Cuz i love learning about religions

thnx ^_^

[Endure Whisper]

I found so many definitions in Google. Just type define: cult in the search bar and you'll get the definitions..

[Geya]

thnx a lot

i found this one useful: In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream.

& Idiosyncratic means: Odd, personalized, peculiar, eccentric and often out of context. People with autism often have idiosyncratic movements, speech, and behaviour.


there crazy ppl

would wahabeez be one of em?!?!?!

[BrAiKi]

Any group of people who have certain thoughts can be called cults :)

[Geya]

No Not really, theres limits i believe Cults are ppl who go way beyond

[ToomuchaT]

.. new to me.. thnx for the info!

[Geya]

npz ^_^((too short))

[DiNGBAT]

Okay, I'll be serious.
A cult, as defined by Dictionary.com is "a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies".
An example of a very, very misguided cult would be the Aum Shinrikyo based in Japan.
On the 20th of March in 1995, members of this cult released toxic sarin gas in the Tokyo subway system in a series of co-ordinated attacks on 5 commuter trains. This resulted in the deaths of 12 people, seriously injuring 54 others and affecting about 980 other passengers.
The founder of the cult, Shoko Asahara, was found guilty of masterminding the deadly attack, and I believe is currently on death row.

[Geya]

yaa that would be another example of a cult

[Moe]

I created my own cult two years back.. "Cult of the soap worshipers"..

So far.. Population = 6

Anyhow, I suppose cults can be defined as a group of people trying to prove something to the world..! They were not created by thin air, the sick world we live in created them..!

[Geya]

i believe science got into there heads too much...and at the sametime religion

[jack]

There was a thread here at sabla that had 20 questions about religion.

Based on these 20 questions it then gave you an idea if a religion "could" be considered a cult.

I can't find it now but I'll let you guess ... how many of todays main stream religions "could" be considered a cult ;)

[Jeff]

Here's what I think people mean by a "cult".

They mean several things:

1. A relatively small group of people; with

2. A new religion...in fact the founder is usually still alive;

3. That strongly separates itself from the rest of society;

4. That demands total allegiance, usually personal allegiance to the founder;

5. That enforces this allegiance by isolation, peer pressure, special training in unusual ways of thinking, and giving all money or property to the group;

6. That inculcates beliefs or attitudes that seem crazy to most people and also, often including a willingness to engage in violence against society or against "traitors" to the cult. Sometimes sexual favors to the founder and others are required, even from children.

This is not from a book or online source. This is my definition based on my experience.

[wudjab]

Jim Jones in Guyana is a good example.

David Koresh is another.

[jack]

Does this "almost" define "most" religions?
Here's what I think people mean by a "cult".

They mean several things:

1. A relatively small group of people; with

2. A new religion...in fact the founder is usually still alive;

3. That strongly separates itself from the rest of society;

4. That demands total allegiance, usually personal allegiance to the founder;

5. That enforces this allegiance by isolation, peer pressure, special training in unusual ways of thinking, and giving all money or property to the group;

6. That inculcates beliefs or attitudes that seem crazy to most people and also, often including a willingness to engage in violence against society or against "traitors" to the cult. Sometimes sexual favors to the founder and others are required, even from children.

This is not from a book or online source. This is my definition based on my experience.

[Jeff]

^^^

Mmmm, well good point!

But...

A religion is usually not small. It is usually not new. It either IS the society or is at general peace with the society. People may not be completely free to leave, but they are not intensely watched by "minders". They are not isolated from the rest of society. They debate the truth of their religion with outsiders. They are not under the control of one person. They use violence rarely, carefully, as a last resort. They do not require sexual favors from their members.

And perhaps most importantly, they have convinced gigantic numbers of people of their truth.

Obviously, cults are a kind of religion. There is no firm dividing line.

But there can be "non-religious" cults too, like Scientology.

[Jeff]

I see where you are going with your question, Jack, I really do.
I'm thinking about your quotation from Pascal:

" "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.""

The whole issue is worth thinking about deeply. We can't settle it on the Sabla! :p

But it's worth pointing out that Pascal was himself intensely and devotedly religious. In fact, he is one of the most highly regarded and beloved Catholic writers of all time.

So maybe that points to another difference: A Religion can engage in self-questioning and self-criticism, even though it has required beliefs and behaviors.

[Geya]

But u know the amish ppl arent a cults u know

[Jeff]

Another thing you might say is:

If you try to make your religion into a cult, we call you a fanatic. And sometimes a fanatic will split off and start his own cult.

The advantage of a religion then is it provides perspective:

1. From other believers, who also have authority and respect;

2. From a history of reflection by Wise Believers over time.

You're not just Your Own Man, nor are you under the control of a single leader or small group of Own Men.

****

Another example of a "non-religious" kind of cult might be a Communist state like Leninism in the early Soviet Union or Kim Jong Il-ism today in North Korea...

[Geya]

thats a good example Jeff

but u know how u gave those lil examples...of the def and stuff well soem ppl go to way beyond wut u do to ppl who trust u, u know??!?!

[Jeff]

But u know the amish ppl arent a cults u know

Yeah, they're beautiful aren't they?

Well, no sexual favors, strongly against violence, involved with the wider society to a large degree, no single leader.

And the main practices like peacefulness and gentleness and even the refusal to use technology seem really attractive and good to many people in the larger society.

That's why I'd say they're not a good example of a cult.

[jack]

A religion is usually not small.Every religion started small. Every single one.


It is usually not new.Every religion started "new" ... They didn't start "old".


It either IS the society or is at general peace with the society.Well maybe ...

People may not be completely free to leave, but they are not intensely watched by "minders".We obiouisly know that to be not totally true ... don't we.


They are not isolated from the rest of society.There are some that isolate themselves from society.


They debate the truth of their religion with outsiders.Yes they do debate "their truth".

They are not under the control of one person. Some were.
They use violence rarely, carefully, as a last resort.No comment.

They do not require sexual favors from their members.Interesting but also no comment.


And perhaps most importantly, they have convinced gigantic numbers of people of their truth.Show me a religion that has not "homegrown" their flock?


Obviously, cults are a kind of religion. There is no firm dividing line.This I will agree on.


Scientology.Excuse me I just ate and am feeling sick!

[Jeff]

Jack said:

Every religion started small. Every single one.

No. Many started as reform movement in a wider pre-existing religion. Others gradually developed over time.

Every religion started "new" ... They didn't start "old".

Yup! The ones that survived proved themselves not cults.

Well maybe ...

Check.
We obiouisly know that to be not totally true ... don't we.
Not totally. That's why I put in 'intensely' and 'minders'.

There are some that isolate themselves from society.
Such as?

Yes they do debate "their truth".
True enough. The point is just that cults just tend not to allow free debate with outsiders.

Some were. No comment.
Interesting but also no comment.

Show me a religion that has not "homegrown" their flock?
This one I don't get.

This I will agree on.

Excuse me I just ate and am feeling sick!



************

Like I say, your argument is not ridiculous. Many people consider all religions to be Gigantic Old Cults. Obviously, I disagree.

But the word is still useful, whether you think so or not. Clouds, fog, mist...how can we draw an absolute line between them? We can't; but the words still mean something.

[Jeff]

thats a good example Jeff

but u know how u gave those lil examples...of the def and stuff well soem ppl go to way beyond wut u do to ppl who trust u, u know??!?!

Yeah, I think cults are a bad idea. They take advantage of people's trust and need for guidance.

[Geya]

i know eeh...like they brainwash ppl...like there no tom and make them believe wut they said is the right thing

[Jeff]

Yeah, Jim Jones that Wudjab mentioned is terrible. He's the one that had all his hundreds of followers take cyanide. And they killed their own babies too.

Billy is tough...any kind of horror movie he can take. But he saw a TV thing on Jonestown and he was STUNNED. "Why? Why did they do that?" he kept saying. He didn't get over it for days....

[Geya]

i need to look in my notes for a name of a group of cults but ya its similar to wut u said Jeff

[Jihad4Truth]

There are established religions. And there are demoninations and sects within those religions.

And then there are cults.

I think the Roman Empire considered early Christianity to be a cult.

I believe the pilgrims who first colonized America were considered a cult in England. They were escaping religous persecution.

As for Amish people, I think of them more as a society or community of Christains. They are well established and co exist within the larger society and community. No nobody is afraid of the Amish, even if they do seem weird.

One could say the same about Cults, but usually a Cult has more negative connotations that implies some kind secretive organization whose unorthodox methods might be considered strange and dangerous to the rest of society.

Of course, that could be used by the establishment to persecute the followers. So it is all in the eye of the beholder. But cults can cite freedom of religion, at least in nations where religion is protected.

As for Wahabbis being a cult. That is an interesting question. They are larger and establsihed, but they also seem so extreme and scary.

I hope that does not offend anybody, but you know that is how I see it.


And let's not forget The Cult.....Fire Woman you're to blame!!

[Geya]

Interesting, it actually leaves me thinking....