OK, so this thing confuses me a lot!

Humans have free will, right? but we always say that what God has written for us will happen and whatever he's written that we'd do, we'll do it no matter what. He knows everything, so of course he knows what we'll do before even doing it then put the consequences.

Could that be called 'free will'?

And, we say that prayer can change the situation, or the destiny? but God knows everything and he knows we'll pray and things will change...so we're not changing anything when you think about it :os

And, we say that prayer can change the situation, or the destiny? but God knows everything and he knows we'll pray and things will change...so we're not changing anything when you think about it :os

ok..i spent most of my life trying to understand this..and i somehow did a few months back, but now,.. I'm confused again :bored: thank you

Example, you have free will to wear hijab or not.

Is that not a free will? A free will to obey or disobey Allah.

^but if God knows whether or not you do wear a hijab, then it has already been decided whether you'll be goin to heaven or hell.. thus your life has been picked for ya.. its fate..

You said it, Allah knows (based on his knowledge), however the decision wheather to wear it or not is purely the woman decision. That is why she will be responsible for her actions.

OK, so this thing confuses me a lot!


Did I hear that term before :P You should change "your drug" to "confuses me" (j/k).

Anyhow, the way I got it is that God knows what you will choose, but you still have free will, No?

as most members said, God knows which path you will take, but that doesn't affect on what you will choose..
It is complicated though!

Did I hear that term before :P You should change "your drug" to "confuses me" (j/k).

Anyhow, the way I got it is that God knows what you will choose, but you still have free will, No?

Haha..well, you'll be getting it a lot more often! lol.

OK, when God knows...he's already written the consequences of your decision? and he already knows what you'll choose...even sometimes, when someone makes a mistake...he/she says :"It's God's will", right? then how come it's a free will?

If a girl doesn't wear hijab is it God will or her will?

If a girl doesn't wear hijab is it God will or her will?

Again with the Hijab thing? ok..

Well, all I'm saying...isn't it already written? even before we were created?

Could this help?

Does this mean that we human beings have no freedom? It seems that way apparently to some people. One Western scholar put the problem very interestingly in the following words: “If God knows everything He must know the future, and if He knows the future, He must know the future acts of His creatures. But then His creatures must act, as He knows they will act. How then can they be free?” There are many people who became confused by looking at the problem in this way. There were also some Muslim thinkers who believed that human beings had no freedom. They were called “Jabriyyah”. The majority of Muslim scholars did not accept this position, they strongly criticized and condemned this position and considered it against the teachings of the Qur’an and authentic Sunnah. The mainstream Muslim position is that Allah has the knowledge of all things and He has the power over all things. Allah, however, has also granted freedom to human beings. Allah’s power and foreknowledge do not mean that human beings have no freedom, nor does Human freedom negate Allah’s power and foreknowledge. Human beings are free only as much as Allah has granted them the freedom. However, in spite of our human freedom we are still under the control of Allah and within His knowledge. Allah will judge us according to the freedom and responsibility that He gave us. He knows very well how much freedom we have and to what extent we are able to exercise our freedom, each one of us in our own circumstances. It is for this reason that we say that only Allah is the True and Final Judge. In the Qur’an He is called “Ahkam al-hakimin” (the best of all the judges, Hud, 11:45; at-Tin, 95:8).

When we carefully examine our own selves and the world around us, we see two things very clearly. On the one hand we find ourselves overwhelmed by forces that are apparently beyond our decision and control, but on the other hand we do experience real freedom and we make our choices between various options.

In modern terminology people use the terms “nature” and “nurture”. The truth is that neither everything that we do is by nature, i.e. we are born with it; nor every thing is by nurture.

The truth is that we are free and we are determined both at the same time. Nature and nurture both work in our lives. Our freedom is limited, nevertheless it does exist and it is the deciding factor for our responsibility and consequently for the eternal reward or punishment.

There is more here;

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543342

It's easy to make examples to understand it, what is wrong with hijab issue?

Anyway, who knows what is written?

And beside that why the two angels are recording deeds (good and bad) if everything is written?

Anyway, who knows what is written?

And beside that why the two angels are recording deeds (good and bad) if everything is written?

So you mean that things aren't already written for us?!

Will read it XQ and get back to u.

And, we say that prayer can change the situation, or the destiny? but God knows everything and he knows we'll pray and things will change...so we're not changing anything when you think about it :os
You do...

You have prayed that your friend reach safe her home in Canada. Your friend takes the plane and while the plane on the airport, the maintainance guy notices that the door of the cargo cabin is not closing fully. He works on that, your friend takes the plane and reaches safe to Canada!

Your shortage of knowledge fell short to inform you about the 'saved' Accident [A], the one that didn't happen. God knows about it all.

Accident [A] was the 'destiny', it was supposed to be the reason the plane looses pressure in the high sky and get crashed and fall in the ocean. Your prayer prevented it from hapening! How I know?? You tell me how it didn't?? :)

Now look at the word you have used in your sentence, the word "knows". So you agree that He knows, so what is the contradiction of His knowledge and you doing the action?

Your problem is that you are comparing the "knowledge" of your to the "knowledge" of God, and the "change" you can make to the "change" made by God. That is what confuses you. You simple measure it with your measure because the words seems the same, but in fact they are far different in value. They both sound and pronounce the same, but differ in everything.

In fact, if you put some brain in it, you will find that we can't change anything 'really' in this life because we don't have control over every single thing in this life. So whoever can change should have control over everything from the atom to the whole universe. We just act, not change.*This is very important*

You have two doors "Mosque" or "Night Club" ... You entered the second one, who's decision is it?

You have prayed that your friend reach safe her home in Canada. Your friend takes the plane and while the plane on the airport, the maintainance guy notices that the door of the cargo cabin is not closing fully. He works on that, your friend takes the plane and reaches safe to Canada!
If her death is scheduled to be on that day, she will die in a way or another

If her death is scheduled to be on that day, she will die in a way or another

But if it is not the day , Then she will survive whatever happen ...

But if it is not the day , Then she will survive whatever happen ...
We go back to the Q
If everything is fixed, then why ?
Long time I browse all sites to find a good explanation on that hadeeth on Qadar
If you have a good one, please bring it
Thx :)

If we talk about free will and what it's already written then you have to consider before you ask .. WHY God create Heaven and Hell ? If everything is written then God already knows where I'm gonna end up .. So why God send prophets?! ..

You have the free will for your ACTIONS .. But you can't change what beyond your Powers ..

I think some people on this thread don't understand your question, but I believe I understand it. How to reconcile Free Will with God's Omniscience has driven many people to the late night whiskey bottle! :p

If this is indeed the Muslim doctrine, then it seems to me to be the same as the Catholic doctrine.

Catholic doctrine is that God knows everything that will happen but that He doesn't force or create the decisions that people make because they have free will.

HOW does it work? Well, we don't know! But we Christians are used to mysteries!

One problem is that we are INSIDE Time. We see everything in terms of cause followed by effect. And we can't imagine how things could be different. But we know that God is not in Time; He is outside it.

Look: imagine that your eye could see more wavelengths of light than it can see now. There would be additional colors. What would they be like? We can't imagine or even begin to describe it. But there could be more colors and even some animals can see them.

Or this: okay, you know the four dimensions, right? One dimension: a point. Two dimensions: a line. Three dimensions: flat piece of paper. Four dimensions: the world in the round as we experience it.

In other words: Space.

But God also is not in Space. It's a creation of His. And anyway, there could be more dimensions. What would the fifth dimension be like? Or the sixth? We cannot imagine.

But if you were a creature that existed only in three dimensions, you would understand a square. But could anyone explain a cube to you? No! Impossible for you to understand.

You could ask this question too: If God is eternal, then how could he create something that isn't eternal? Was there a "time" for Him when the world didn't exist? How is that possible?

And if the world was always there, isn't it also eternal along with God? And how then, did He create it?

So, we have to accept the mystery, I think, but keep the facts.

For Catholics, the facts are these:

1. God knows everything, even the choices we will make.

2. But somehow He created us such that the choices we make are ours and are free and not determined by Him.

How do they go together?

We don't know. But we know space is curved and somebody did take a photograph of the beginning of the universe! For real!

You have the free will for your ACTIONS .. But you can't change what beyond your Powers ..
That what far from humans understanding [which explains also our limits] :
we are free of acting [on earth] but the result [in afterlife] is there, so why bothering ?

This is How Islam define Fate(destiny) and the Free Will;

The question of fate and free will is one of the most intriguing topics in metaphysics and religion.
Man feels absolutely powerless, regarding many of the circumstances in which he/she finds him/herself. One might feel that there are so many givens, which one has to take for granted, and nothing can be done about them. On the other hand, there are many areas where one feels free to act. Look at the marvelous progress of humanity through the centuries. If humans were mere puppets, could we have managed all these wonderful achievements, which have made us so proud of human potential?

Indeed the question of pre-destination and free will has haunted Man for so long; but it has been adequately dealt with in the Holy Qur’an.

From the Qur’anic point of view, Man is not completely a master of his fate; nor is he a puppet subject to the hazards of destiny. It is true that God’s sovereignty is all pervading and nothing falls outside its purview. This means that God knows everything and it is according to His will, things happen here. The universe is completely subject to the overriding power of God, and nothing happens without God willing it to be so.

However, God not only created everything, but He determined its nature and scope. In His infinite wisdom and mercy, He gave Man limited power and great freedoms, including the freedom of choice. It is because of this autonomy, enjoyed by Man, that he/she is held accountable for the individual deeds.
The Holy Qur’an says:

That man can have nothing but what he strives for;


Surah 53 Verse 39

... Verily never will God change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls). ...


Surah 13 Verse 11

Say: "With God is the argument that reaches home: if it had been His will, He could indeed have guided you all."


Surah 6 Verse 149

Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!
And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.


Surah 99 Verses 7 - 8

In fact the concept of qadar (destiny), used in the Qur'an often, means a measure or the latent possibilities with which God created Man and all things of Nature. For example, God says:
... it is He who created all things, and ordered (qadara) them in due proportions.


Surah 25 Verse 2

In this verse, destiny implies the scope and potential of things. This means their latent capabilities.

There is a hadith, which says that God wrote down the decrees regarding the created world, fifty thousand years, before He created the heavens and the earth. The point to be noted here is that this does not, in any way, mean that God created a universe, finished off and complete, bound to the iron rules of Nature. The idea behind qadar is that the creation of this universe was in accordance with the grand design of the Creator. This means that there is no element of chance in the creation of this universe. Everything is well arranged and well planned.

So this is not a kind of clockwork universe where God simply winds up the clock and then lets it run. The Holy Qur’an clearly says that God is constantly active in Creation:
God! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).


Surah 2 Verse 255

This verse indicates that God does not feel tired or sleepy in spite of the fact that He is constantly active.

Muhammad Iqbal, the renowned Islamic poet, has written: ‘Divine knowledge must be conceived as a living creative activity, to which the objects that appear to exist in their own right are organically related. By conceiving God's knowledge as a kind of reflecting mirror, we no doubt save His foreknowledge of future events. But, it is obvious that we do so at the expense of His freedom. The future certainly pre-exists in the organic whole of God's creative life, but it pre-exists as an open possibility, not as a fixed order of events with definite outlines.’

Time as an abstract concept- encompassing the past, present and future- is very much relative. It is, however, a great ‘present’ for the All-Seeing God. The whole continuum of time lies before Him in the shape of now. Knowledge is an act of creative activity and not the mere reflection of it. When He decrees a thing it happens and He sees it before it happens. God in Islam is therefore a free Creator with foreknowledge.

God's knowledge, however, is not like our knowledge. God's knowledge covers everything created, its past and its future.
... With God is the Decision, in the past and in the Future...


Surah 30 Verse 4

But God is the creator and we are the created. Our knowledge is limited in ways that God's knowledge is not. It is our very lack of knowledge which gives us free will. We cannot know our future and to a large extent we cannot control it. Our decisions are based on our understanding of the way the world works. Are these decisions free from God's command? Not really, but for all practical purposes we inevitably see them as free choices, we cannot do otherwise – that is our nature. We are held accountable only for things we understand. Our deeds are judged by their intentions.

So just as someone who punches his fist into a brick wall cannot claim injustice when it hurts, nor can we claim any injustice if we disobey God's moral laws, when we know them, and get punished. We "know" that the wall exists and that it is hard and that is the reality we deal with. The ultimate reality is however, that God could make that wall disappear just before your fist reached it.

The concept of qadar, therefore, indicates that we must seek harmony with God’s rules of human nature and nature at large, and consciously submit to His will. Destiny as conceived by Islam, therefore, does not take away our freedom of choice and action. It is our willful choice of those actions from our inherent possibilities that are in harmony with God’s will that earns us our reward from God. Thus, qadar can be a source of inspiration and encouragement for us, and it really opens up vast fields of human activity. It need not make us utterly powerless or helpless; on the contrary it can be a source of inspiration and encouragement.

Indeed, when God has set certain rules in his decree as to how things evolve, even these things can be changed through prayers. The prophet stressed that only sincere prayers can change the way events unfold, and that true worship and sincere submission to God can raise the believer above the normal ways of nature: Prayers can and do result in "personal miracles" - events or experiences which we consider almost impossible and certainly highly improbable.

From an Islamic point of view, Man is free for all practical purposes. He/she has no excuse for making the wrong choice and then blaming qadar or fate, any more than a man punching his fist into a wall can blame the laws of nature. He knew the consequences of his actions for all practical purposes and he shouldn't expect a miracle!

The foregoing means, that we should not worry about what God has written for us, since we can never know it; but our duty, here and now, is to strive for the best in this world and the next. Then, good results will follow, insha’Allah.


link (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015716&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE)

God knows what will happen before it happens. He does not say that He has decided what will happen before hand. The difference is that if God knows what is going to happen it does not automatically mean that He affects the events in any way. However, if He has decided something it means that He has orchestrated the events. Knowing the future is different than creating the future. The very concept of reward and punishment in the hereafter entails the concept of free-will. After all, how can one be held responsible, punished or even rewarded for something in which he was not even free to do otherwise.
Consider the following verse from the Holy Qur'an:

(The fact is that) God does not burden anyone beyond his capacity; every soul will have what it has earned and it will be held responsible only for its own doing. Al Baqarah 2:286


TRY to check this web page to understand it more ;
LINK (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=14285&hd=7&cate=0&t=rss)
You will have answers to more Questions in your mind right now :)

I was speaking of this one

Narrated Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(as regards your creation), every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first forty days, and then he becomes a clot for another forty days, and then a piece of flesh for an other forty days. Then Allah sends an angel to write four words: He writes his deeds, time of his death, means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into his body. So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and hell, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire." (Volume 4, Book 55, Number 549)

Hope you will find the answer in the LINK .. Cuz I can't be more knowledgeable about it more than the Scholars ..

In fact, if you put some brain in it, you will find that we can't change anything 'really' in this life because we don't have control over every single thing in this life. So whoever can change should have control over everything from the atom to the whole universe. We just act, not change.*This is very important*

You have two doors "Mosque" or "Night Club" ... You entered the second one, who's decision is it?

It'll be mine, but not really! this is what I'm trying to say...we're responsible for our actions, yes. We'll face it in the judgment day, yes. But, once...when one of my Qs popped (don't they always? =P) I wanted to make sure that the reason which I know behind God creating us was correct. The answer I got was that he wanted us to experience it so when he punishes us, we wouldn't have an excuse. So, he made us pray to change what he put in our way...so in the end..we're doing what he wants us to do? or what he made us do? so is it what WE wanted to do in the first place? if I do choose the mosque..doesn't God know it already and actually he's written that I'd choose this door before I was created? so is it really my choice?

I'm confused! :cry:

We don't know. But we know space is curved and somebody did take a photograph of the beginning of the universe! For real!

Yay! we knows something! :bored:

OK, so we know nothing? that's relaxing :p

... I wanted to make sure that the reason which I know behind God creating us was correct.
Just small note: No matter the reason you will get, it is just a reason told to people who are just inside the test. Full reason will be displayed later in the other life. I believe we have received a bit of the information not the full thing. Just finish your test and you will know... It is just a matter of time.

... The answer I got was that he wanted us to experience it so when he punishes us, we wouldn't have an excuse.
No, it is unfair to put it in this way, God didn't creat us to make us suffer, it is just we are "hasty" we make fast conclusions and that is in our nature. We were created to fill the earth with good and worship God on our free will. We are the proof for Angels that worship of God is something that is done with will, so they worship without a will not to do. Read...:
--------------------------------------------------------------

2-30

"واذ قال ربك للملائكة اني جاعل في الارض خليفة قالوا اتجعل فيها من يفسد فيها ويسفك الدماء ونحن نسبح بحمدك ونقدس لك قال اني اعلم ما لا تعلمون"


2-30.
"Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

--------------------------------------------------------------
So God already have Angels to praise and glorify Him. That is why Angels where wondering why God created humans?

So you , as a human, when you worship God, you will be better than Angels themselves, ... Yes, you have done it in full free will and only for God himself. That is the most clear and pure worship, the worship with free will.

Now Satan was not happy about the privilege and favor of God for humans. He felt so jealous burned his heart from the inside, so he felt superior and more purer blood so he couldn't resist speaking it out loud:


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7-12
قَالَ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَلاَّ تَسْجُدَ إِذْ أَمَرْتُكَ قَالَ أَنَاْ خَيْرٌ مِّنْهُ خَلَقْتَنِي مِن نَّارٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِن طِينٍ

7-13
قَالَ فَاهْبِطْ مِنْهَا فَمَا يَكُونُ لَكَ أَن تَتَكَبَّرَ فِيهَا فَاخْرُجْ إِنَّكَ مِنَ الصَّاغِرِينَ

7-14
قَالَ أَنظِرْنِي إِلَى يَوْمِ يُبْعَثُونَ

7-15
قَالَ إِنَّكَ مِنَ الْمُنظَرِينَ

7-16
قَالَ فَبِمَا أَغْوَيْتَنِي لأَقْعُدَنَّ لَهُمْ صِرَاطَكَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ

7-17
ثُمَّ لآتِيَنَّهُم مِّن بَيْنِ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِمْ وَعَنْ أَيْمَانِهِمْ وَعَن شَمَائِلِهِمْ وَلاَ تَجِدُ أَكْثَرَهُمْ شَاكِرِينَ

7-18
قَالَ اخْرُجْ مِنْهَا مَذْؤُومًا مَّدْحُورًا لَّمَن تَبِعَكَ مِنْهُمْ لَأَمْلَأَنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ



12. ((Allah)) said: "What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."


13. ((Allah)) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."



14. He said: "Give me respite till the day they are raised up."



15. ((Allah)) said: "Be thou among those who have respite."



16. He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:



17. "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."



18. ((Allah)) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.
--------------------------------------------------------------
So again... He "Satan" hates us ... Soooooooooooo Much!... Read:


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17-62
"قَالَ أَرَأَيْتَكَ هَذَا الَّذِي كَرَّمْتَ عَلَيَّ لَئِنْ أَخَّرْتَنِ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ لأَحْتَنِكَنَّ ذُرِّيَّتَهُ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً

17-63
قَالَ اذْهَبْ فَمَن تَبِعَكَ مِنْهُمْ فَإِنَّ جَهَنَّمَ جَزَاؤُكُمْ جَزَاء مَّوْفُورًا

17-62. He said: "Seest Thou? this is the one whom Thou hast honored above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few!"

17-63. ((Allah)) said: "Go thy way; if any of them follow thee, verily Hell will be the recompense of you (all)- an ample recompense.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Now after you knew the story behind it is it clearer now? What will you do if you know that someone trusts you and favors you? Will you try your best to show your obligation to him? Will you try to be a faithful trust-worthy person? What about if "YOUR GOD" is the one who trusts you? Will you fail?


That is the purpose of our creation...will we stand our positions? Or we will follow the one who is trying to prove our failure and inability to be reliable trustworthy creatures?!!





... .So, he made us pray to change what he put in our way...so in the end..we're doing what he wants us to do? or what he made us do?
We are doing what we are supposed to do. Your father will say"Yes she will call me if she wants any help or she fell in trouble, I know her very well, she is my daughter", thought he will not hold your hand and ask you to dial him for help!

Another dimension is that, of God's mercy on us He doesn't leave us to our decision and choices. Think of it if everyone who prayed for something it will be done. You pray to catch the plane and you catch it ... This plane was defected and was to crash... You prayed and God made your prayer come true! That is why we are supposed to believe that even if our prayers didn't come true that this will for our good right? How many times you did think that something is the best for you and it turned out later that it was not?... Think.

--------------------------------------------------------

You will pray...
God will answer your prayer.
The bad event was avoided
Things have changed due to your prayer.

God knows ... You will pray...
God knows ... God will answer your prayer.
God knows ... The bad event was avoided
God knows ... Things have changed due to your prayer. --------------------------------------------------------
^^^^^^^
Everything was known before it happens
^^^^^^^
Did you got the message? God is doing the good for us from all directions!

... so is it what WE wanted to do in the first place?
Yes because there something called "logic" in our brain, and that is the reason we think and reason things out. Who wants to die in a horrible accident?

... if I do choose the mosque..doesn't God know it already and actually he's written that I'd choose this door before I was created? so is it really my choice?
Yes it is 100% your choise, everything was written as the eternal knowledge of God about existance.

Everything you are doing now was written before you were born. Not written because you should follow it, No ... it is written because youwill follow it.
-----------------------------------------------------------
57-22
مَا أَصَابَ مِن مُّصِيبَةٍ فِي الأَرْضِ وَلا فِي أَنفُسِكُمْ إِلاَّ فِي كِتَابٍ مِّن قَبْلِ أَن نَّبْرَأَهَا إِنَّ ذَلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرٌ

57-23
لِكَيْلا تَأْسَوْا عَلَى مَا فَاتَكُمْ وَلا تَفْرَحُوا بِمَا آتَاكُمْ وَاللَّهُ لا يُحِبُّ كُلَّ مُخْتَالٍ فَخُورٍ


22. No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for Allah.


23. In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favors bestowed upon you. For Allah loveth not any vainglorious boaster,-
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Knowing that everything was recorded before the existence will give you peace of heart, you will take everything that happens to you in an open heart because you have trust that when your God speaks to you in the above manner that means a God that is most loving and most merciful! He cares that we don't be so happy to the limit that we stray away or not to be so sad that we die from depression! We just don't listen ... We don't listen...

Just if we love God as He loves us, things would have been so different!

Just to let you know, your reply is amazing...made me feel good for some reason, lol.

So when God wrote it, he KNEW we'd choose it (because he knows everything and knows how we think), but he didn't MAKE us choose it.

It's clearer now, thanks.

Obli

in a way or another, a person who choses religion and God to rely on, also choses to accept the fact that He has more power and knowledge than we do [remember the words of supplication in Isthikara ?]
Therefore our will is limited
Why you want to know the outcome of your actions ?
Would you just sit down and wait if you already knew that the results are negative ?

So when God wrote it, he KNEW we'd choose it (because he knows everything and knows how we think), but he didn't MAKE us choose it.



Allah help and guide people to do good things by providing the reasons for them, why do you think people make dua'a (ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ ).

Oblivious, I wonder what do they teach you in Islamic classes in Qatar. Most of the topics you bring here, have been taught in our Islamic classes.

Anyway, Allah's prior knowledge on what will every human path be, has nothing to do with our wills. Allah knows, but his prior knowledge doesn't affect our wills. We are free to believe in God or not, but if we chose not to believe in God, then we have to be responsible of our choice. Everyone should be responsible of the path he chooses.

Just to let you know, your reply is amazing...made me feel good for some reason, lol.

So when God wrote it, he KNEW we'd choose it (because he knows everything and knows how we think), but he didn't MAKE us choose it.

It's clearer now, thanks.
Exactly. He didn't make us choose it.

Oblivious, I wonder what do they teach you in Islamic classes in Qatar. Most of the topics you bring here, have been taught in our Islamic classes.

Anyway, Allah's prior knowledge on what will every human path be, has nothing to do with our wills. Allah knows, but his prior knowledge doesn't affect our wills. We are free to believe in God or not, but if we chose not to believe in God, then we have to be responsible of our choice. Everyone should be responsible of the path he chooses.

What you said is what they teach us...they say :"We're responsible and we choose our path" but whenever you ask them the Q I asked, they give me the usual :"Our brain can't handle it" answer.

I was confused about "God writing what we'll do" so we're doing it because he said we would.

Why you want to know the outcome of your actions ?
Would you just sit down and wait if you already knew that the results are negative ?

I wasn't asking to know the outcome of my actions. It's because we have free will but I'm not seeing it, lol.

Would I wait? I might :p

It's because we have free will but I'm not seeing it, lol.
You can't see because you don't know
but if you knew like in a crystal ball that would be boring
don't waste all your time just asking questions, search for answers also

You can't see because you don't know
but if you knew like in a crystal ball that would be boring
True..


don't waste all your time just asking questions, search for answers also

Hmm...how would you 'search' if you don't have questions? anyway, that's off-topic.

that's part of free will
if one spends most of the time [or all] just complaining or asking without listening, then wastes his/her free will potential

that's part of free will
if one spends most of the time [or all] just complaining or asking without listening, then wastes his/her free will potential
umm..:os . OK, without listening?

Whatever amo..

I think it goes like this: angels, for example, don't have free will. They follow a straight path of continuous worship and service, and do not have the element of choice, nor do they need it, because they're servants of God.
Human beings have been blessed in this sense that we've been given the right to choose. So right now there is literally nothing stopping you from going out and murdering someone, or getting drunk, or just behaving in complete anarchy. Forget family, forget the government and all that, you physically have the capability. And once you do it, it's most likely that you won't be struck down by lightning the moment you sin. That's free will.

Maybe Allah knows if you would actually do it or not, but still, you don't know what is going to happen, so it is your job to create your own fate, in a manner of speaking. Some things of course, are out of our hands, and when they happen you just accept it, as one of those few things that you didn't have a say in, and try and move on from it. Here also there is an element of choice. When that thing happens, how you react to it and what you do is up to you, and God judges you based on that.

Maybe Allah knows if you would actually do it or not,

It's not maybe it's for sure that Allah knows everything.


يَعْلَمُ خَائِنَةَ الْأَعْيُنِ وَمَا تُخْفِي الصُّدُورُ

Allâh knows the fraud of the eyes, and all that the breasts conceal.

وَعِنْدَهُ مَفَاتِحُ الْغَيْبِ لَا يَعْلَمُهَا إِلَّا هُوَ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ وَمَا تَسْقُطُ مِنْ وَرَقَةٍ إِلَّا يَعْلَمُهَا وَلَا حَبَّةٍ فِي ظُلُمَاتِ الْأَرْضِ وَلَا رَطْبٍ وَلَا يَابِسٍ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ مُبِينٍ

And with Him are the keys of the Ghaib (all that is hidden), none knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in the land and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but he knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record.

I think the problem, -mooo, is that many people want to know if "free will" is just "the way it seems to you" or if you are really "free".

Okay, you don't know what you are going to do. But if it's already written, it seems to many, then what you will do is already "determined" ahead of time. You may not know it, but it's already set in stone.

And who set it in stone ahead of time? Isn't that God? Maybe God created it so that you make that decision and it seems from inside your soul that you are deciding, but it's already a done deal.

This is the argument, you see.

Suppose you know ahead of time that somebody always has an epileptic fit when they are near a road with traffic on it. You bring them to stand near the road, they have an epileptic fit and they fall into the road and get run over.

Can you say, "Hey, I only KNEW that they were going to have a fit. I didn't make them have a fit. I have no responsibility in the matter!"

So when people think about God's foreknowledge, they think, "God made you," they say", KNOWING that you would sin and go to Hell. Why didn't He just make people that He knew WOULDN'T sin and go to Hell? If He's making people that will go to Hell, it's His responsibility in the end and His fault. And the people who sin and go to Hell didn't choose to be made. How do you create something that will choose a certain thing ahead of time and not be responsible for that choice? And how can that choice be really free, if it's set in stone ahead of time?"

That's the problem and a problem indeed it is. Mind you, I don't in the end agree with it, but I can certainly understand why people find it a difficulty.

Humans have free will, right? but we always say that what God has written for us will happen and whatever he's written that we'd do, we'll do it no matter what. He knows everything, so of course he knows what we'll do before even doing it then put the consequences.

u know when i was like 10 or 12 i had that thinking.. pheww.. old days..

anyway Obli.. didn't you have the free will to write this thread or not?? yes u did and nobody forced u to write it.. still it was written you will write this thread!!

.. and i was in the same situation.. i had the choice to write this reply or not.. but it was written that i will write it.. if it was not ment that i write this reply then i will choose not to write it.. simple!!

Sorry! I didn't read this earlier..

Well, I think it's clear now..thanks.