Pope admits crimes of Christian colonisation

[HITMAN]

CONFRONTED with continued anger in Latin America, Pope Benedict has acknowledged that the Christian colonisation of Indian populations was not as rosy as he portrayed in a speech this month in Brazil.


The Pope did not apologise, as some indigenous and Latin American leaders have demanded. However, he did say it was impossible to ignore the dark "shadows" and "unjustified crimes" that accompanied the evangelisation of the New World by Catholic priests in the 15th and 16th centuries.

Full story (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pope-admits-crimes-of-christian-colonisation/2007/05/24/1179601579676.html)

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Why didn't the Pope portray the truth?

[Jeff]

What do you mean?

I don't think the Pope said everything was "rosy". He said that the native peoples of America benefitted from receiving the Gospel and it fulfilled a longing for Truth that they had: "“The proclamation of Jesus and of his Gospel did not at any point involve an alienation of the pre-Columbus cultures, nor was it the imposition of a foreign culture,”"

Some people think that it's a bad idea to get people to change their native religions. They think that's the imposition of an outside culture. Those people also think it's a bad idea that Islam came to India and got many people to become Muslims. Do you agree? I don't.

But of course, since the media generated a "controversy" the Pope has to make sure that he isn't misunderstood. So, he says the obvious: that sometimes the Christians who came didn't act like Christians.

That's also true of other religions and conquests. Do the Muslims in the south of Sudan always act like good Muslims toward the tribespeople there? No. But is it a good thing if southern Sudanese accept Islam? I bet your answer is 'yes'. I think that's a reasonable approach for both our religions.

It shouldn't be astounding when the Pope says it's a good thing for people to become Catholic, not a bad thing! :p But the newspapers like to play the "I'm astounded!" game....

[Thug4Life]

isnt he slipping alot...??
what I mean...the Pope indeed cause several contraversial issues in the past and its still going on...to all ethnicities and other religions!!! I wonder?!!!

[amo_l_oman]

Admitting this, is supposed to be something positive

But I think the main problem with this Pope is that he dsnt want to realise the difference between when he was Cardinal and now being Pope, which is a little bit like member upgraded to adm :D
When he was Cardinal he used to create these and worse controversies : now he cannot use same methods, must mediate more even if he inherited a difficult situation

[Jeff]

I don't think he's slipping.

If you go through life trying to avoid anything that anyone could make a stink about, you will end up saying nothing.

It's popular among intellectuals to say that religions, including Christianity, are a bad influence. We should just leave people the way they are.

The Pope wants to say that's false. And he should. But when the media decides to distract from things with something irrelevant, all the Pope can do is answer. And he did.

I think the Pope knows that he cannot run the media, he can only cope with it. But he cannot let the media shut him up.

[DoИ_K]

But still He needs to be more Political .. The Pope Role changed during the last time ...

[amo_l_oman]

I think the Pope knows that he cannot run the media, he can only cope with it. But he cannot let the media shut him up.
In the countries where he can, he can run media and much more
Tomorrow night finally there will be a debate on paedophile priests on public tv, and finally they had permission to air BBC report
The Pope has many responsibilities in those sad accidents
It was not easy : state tv commission tried everything to block it
And our government is kinda left
That says a lot ...

[Jeff]

The Pope has some influence in places like Italy and Poland, but he certainly cannot run the media! :p

The problem with the BBC report is not that it is on a touchy subject. The problem is that it misrepresents the nature of the document at issue.

The document they refer to was 1. Never secret and 2. Had nothing to do with civil law, only canon law.

[amo_l_oman]

No is much more than Italy and Poland
He is a head of state
He is involved in hidden traffics all around the world
Banco Ambrosiano, Emanuela Orlandi ...were italian issues with connections in US UK Turkey all ova

[Threadlike]

I have not read the Full Story but I would like to respond to Jeff's point...
I think that any indigenous religions should not be simply dubbed 'heathen' but religions should be approached with 'hikmah and ma''witha' or 'wisdom and good example' as the Qura'an so clearly instructs us Muslims at least. If you read something like 'Things Fall Apart', you'll see it from an African's point of view that change should not be met with extremetism but with care and caution. The idea is that with every religion comes a new culture and changing cultures is never so easy. Cultures and religions are rich in their own way and they should NEVER, EVER be imposed. It simply destroys their beauty and their ability to spread.

So yes, I think it's a bad idea to come in and impose yourself as a colonist under the cloak of religion and impose your religion saying it's the TRUE religion and all other religions are false.

[Jeff]

^^^

It's one thing to "impose yourself". But you have to tell people the truth, you can't hide it. The Quran is full of injunctions to let people know the truth, you can't simply be quiet about it.

I agree, that you need to approach people with respect. You can't "impose". There are positive things in all religions. But it makes a difference in your mind, doesn't it, if people are Muslim or not? Don't you think offering people what is in the Quran is a good thing?

[Threadlike]

Offering obviously is a good thing to me...But it may never be a good thing to many others. The idea is to approach with both respect AND reason. Logic is one definite way to God wouldn't you think?

Spread the word, that's excellent and is always doing a good thing. If people like you and I look at people still worshipping statues we will want to divert them from that way to Christianity (to you) or Islam (to me). We would think it will be better for them. But we should not run down and break the statues or impose our own laws. That's what MANY colonialists did...Colonialism is of the past anyhow. It's an old matter...But some of it is filled with very very horrible facts. Like the Ahiara incident of 1905 in the murder of ALL indigenous people because of the murder of a single white man from the people. That was in Nigeria, on the hands of the British soldiers.

[Jeff]

I'm not sure you would get everyone to agree that colonialism is of the past!

Palestinians would point to Israelis; Kurds would point to Arabs, Turks and Persians; black Christian and animist Sudanese would point to northern Muslims; Tibetans and Muslim Uighurs would point to Chinese...

In any case, yes, reason and more is a good way to appeal to people.

My point was that both Muslims and Christians in history have mixed bad methods with good in spreading our religions. But it's still a good thing for each of us, I think, that the religions were spread.

Muslims don't say, "Gee, we are ashamed that Pakistan is Muslim because some bad stuff went on there in process of Islamization." And we don't say, "Gosh, it's a shame South America is Catholic because some people did bad things."

Nor do most Pakistanis or South Americans think this way. Most of them are grateful to be who they are and happy to have the religions they have.

Sometimes we underestimate the purity and beauty of these native cultures anyway. I remember reading one Christian missionary to a tribe in South America pointing out that in that tribe it was normal to kidnap and rape eleven year old girls and he would lie there and listen to them scream at night, not being able to do anything. And when people's parents would die, often they would go and just kill some innocent tribesperson to make themselves feel better. We should tell them that's a bad idea and God hates it!

And, gee, look at the Mayan and Aztec cultures which slaughtered thousands of innocents every year in human sacrifice to the gods! I'm glad Spain brought that to an end and Christianized those people. Just watch Apocalypto! And very good Catholics they are, too.