I was reading a 'hadeeth' which kind of...confused me?

Well, my teacher said before that if a woman wants to fast, she has to 'ask' her partner for the permission, but he doesn't have to ask his wife before fasting...because the man is the one who asks for the 'intimate time'

Then, yesterday, I was reading this hadeeth which stated that "If a man calls his wife for bed and she refused, she'll be cursed by God till the morning". I'm sure many of you know it..and it was (Bukhari and Muslim).

Is that true? what if the wife doesn't feel like it, or what if she asks her husband for it and he refuses..? :os

didnt knw !

and thats how marriage rape exists :p

seriously though, a man should at least respect her wishes... maybe she just doesn't feel like it.. men may have that tendency too.

as for her asking to fast.. i have never ever heard this hadith before.. not to mention it doesn't make sense at all.. a woman is exempt from fasting due to her womanly stuff but other than that she must fast if she's considered a muslim... besides.. all her life trying to be a muslim and try fasting as she was brought up that way by her parents and her family. it shouldn't come to a complete halt just because the husband commands her.. What if there's a power struggle where the parents tell her to fast and the husband doesn't want her to hmm? obey the parents or obey the husband? :p

seriously this is why i doubt the hadiths.. even more when it is "recommended" by religious scholars.. they just portray men as shallow, superficial creatures that want nothing but sex.. i find it offensive to my gender.

^ I think she meant fasting not in Ramadhan to make up for the days she missed.


I heard about the other hadith recently and was also shocked!

You girls try to dig up anything just to victimize yourselves.

The Messenger of Allah forbade a woman to fast if her husband was present until he gave her his perrnission to do so. Abu Hurairah reported that the Prophet said: "A woman is not to fast [even] for one day while her husband is present except with his permission, unless it is during Ramadan." This is related by Ahmad, al-Bukhari, and Muslim. The scholars have interpreted this prohibition as one of forbiddance, and they allow the husband to end his wife's fasting if she fasted without his perrnission and he seeks his right [to sex] from her. This is also true, obviously, for days other than those of Ramadan in which case she does not need her husband's permission. Similarly, if she fasted without his permission because he was not present, he has the right to end her fast when he retums.
If the husband is sick or incapable of intercourse, it is permissible for the woman to fast without his perrnission--that is, it is similar to the case of where the husband is not present.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_51.html

The logic is that it will be easier for him to sin, if he feels to make love so is better to tell him or asking permission before a voluntary fasting

Out of fasting contexts, primary thing in Islam is respect, so I assume that a Muslim man, if his wife is not in mood and expresses her wishes to abstain, he will second her and wait

Waiting for feminists now :rolleyes:

I wasn't digging smart guy! I was reading about the "kaba'er" and it was one of them!

Amo, ya..this is what I thought too! when my teacher said that the female has to take permission and the man doesn't..I thought both should tell each other..it's just weird to assume that the man will want to 'make love' only. What if the woman wanted and he was fasting? :p

About the respect..I agree.

There you go..one feminist down :p

I think is easier for women than for men to abstain from sex

it's one of the Kaba2er to refuse to have sex with ur husband?

it's one of the Kaba2er to refuse to have sex with ur husband?

(Feels Powerful :D) ...:hyper:

it's one of the Kaba2er to refuse to have sex with ur husband?

This is what's shocking me the most! I never knew there were too many of them!

Actually, it was written that they have to types, one that makes a "kaffir" and the other makes you a 'bad Muslim' but it also makes get punished..which was confusing.

And, what I mentioned was from the 2nd type.

^ I think she meant fasting not in Ramadhan to make up for the days she missed.

Even so.. can't a husband just wait for a few days? (assuming she didn't fast ramadan for like 10 days or so) my point is to prove that most men aren't sex freaks as they're "portrayed" to be to the point that they'd stop a person from fasting just to satisfy their libido.

I don't feel that's one of the reliable hadeeths... because surely god knows a woman is human all the same? and she's got a mind of her own, and feelings of her own. :mmhmm: I would not believe that god won't request the husband to respect her... i thought it was punishment for guys who rape their wives.... then where is the justice?

and thats how marriage rape exists :p

seriously though, a man should at least respect her wishes... maybe she just doesn't feel like it.. men may have that tendency too.

as for her asking to fast.. i have never ever heard this hadith before.. not to mention it doesn't make sense at all.. a woman is exempt from fasting due to her womanly stuff but other than that she must fast if she's considered a muslim... besides.. all her life trying to be a muslim and try fasting as she was brought up that way by her parents and her family. it shouldn't come to a complete halt just because the husband commands her.. What if there's a power struggle where the parents tell her to fast and the husband doesn't want her to hmm? obey the parents or obey the husband? :p

seriously this is why i doubt the hadiths.. even more when it is "recommended" by religious scholars.. they just portray men as shallow, superficial creatures that want nothing but sex.. i find it offensive to my gender.
Marriage rape doesn't exist. Well at least it doesn't to many people in this world. :rolleyes:

Seriously, how many people recognise forced sex in a marriage as rape?

Ah.. how far we still have to go..

It's Not like Wut the man wants or wut the woman wants ... It's more like how the are going to achieve the balance between the needs of both of them .. It help them more with their choices and they have to work together to be a happy family and each one consider the needs of his/her partner ..

It's one of the man's rights... We studied this last year. BUT I guess the man also has to fulfill his wife's sexual desires, just like how she is supposed to fulfill his. Meaning if she asked him for it, he also shouldn't refuse.

Women always like to complain and compare themselves with men.


نِسَاؤُكُمْ حَرْثٌ لَكُمْ فَأْتُوا حَرْثَكُمْ أَنَّى شِئْتُمْ

Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will,

Also the husband sacrifice almost a week every month due to the wife monthly periods, so it's logical that she ask for permission for voluntary fasting.

Marriage rape doesn't exist. Well at least it doesn't to many people in this world. :rolleyes:

Seriously, how many people recognise forced sex in a marriage as rape?

Ah.. how far we still have to go..

Well, you've got to admit there's a huge difference between, "Not now, honey, I've got a headache" and "Oh, my God, who are YOU!"

Part of marriage is a general permission to have sex with each other.

I admit it's brutal and nasty for a man to take his wife when she says no, but it seems to me quite different from taking someone whom you have no right to whatsoever.

And of course, if the man beats his wife or hurts her in some way, it's a different matter. But it would be a different matter whether he "raped" her or not.

So, I think there's a problem with the idea of "marital rape."

"I do", means "Yes, you can have sex with me," not, "We'll see about that. Applications will be taken on a case-by-case basis."

Women always like to complain and compare themselves with men.


نِسَاؤُكُمْ حَرْثٌ لَكُمْ فَأْتُوا حَرْثَكُمْ أَنَّى شِئْتُمْ

Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will,

Also the husband sacrifice almost a week every month due to the wife monthly periods, so it's logical that she ask for permission for voluntary fasting.

:p

This is one of the verses that people who have a problem with Islam love to list.

Maybe because they understand it wrongly!

Women always like to complain and compare themselves with men.


نِسَاؤُكُمْ حَرْثٌ لَكُمْ فَأْتُوا حَرْثَكُمْ أَنَّى شِئْتُمْ

Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will,

Also the husband sacrifice almost a week every month due to the wife monthly periods, so it's logical that she ask for permission for voluntary fasting.

Well it's not our fault we get monthly periods!

That's a lame excuse.

Maybe because they understand it wrongly!

That is certainly a possibility!

Women always like to complain and compare themselves with men.


نِسَاؤُكُمْ حَرْثٌ لَكُمْ فَأْتُوا حَرْثَكُمْ أَنَّى شِئْتُمْ

Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will,

Also the husband sacrifice almost a week every month due to the wife monthly periods, so it's logical that she ask for permission for voluntary fasting.

Seriously, are men that horny? you 'sacrifice' during that week?

Maybe because they understand it wrongly!
Can you explain us the meaning of that verse in this thread context ?
Thanks

It's one of the man's rights... We studied this last year. BUT I guess the man also has to fulfill his wife's sexual desires, just like how she is supposed to fulfill his. Meaning if she asked him for it, he also shouldn't refuse.

OK, let's think of it this way..

The husband is hungry and wants his wife to cook for him..the wife is really really tired so she didn't cook. So, it's the man's 'need' to eat! but the wife couldn't fulfill it...does that mean God will curse her? it's the same thing! the man wants to 'make love', the wife is tired, not feeling it..whatever. Can't he wait? and vice-versa. Come on, you know how big deal is God cursing someone!

Now, no one told me if that's a reliable hadeeth, lol. Seems like it is? :bored:

Well it's not our fault we get monthly periods!

That's a lame excuse.

No one said it ur fault :bored: ...
Wut men need from their wives is the understanding of his needs :angel:

OK, let's think of it this way..

The husband is hungry and wants his wife to cook for him..the wife is really really tired so she didn't cook. So, it's the man's 'need' to eat! but the wife couldn't fulfill it...does that mean God will curse her? it's the same thing! the man wants to 'make love', the wife is tired, not feeling it..whatever. Can't he wait? and vice-versa. Come on, you know how big deal is God cursing someone!

Now, no one told me if that's a reliable hadeeth, lol. Seems like it is? :bored:

Ur Problem ... You can't compare Food with Sex ...
Food ... There are so many restaurants where he can eat instead ..
Sex ... He can't have sex with another woman (NOT HIS WIFE):bored:


It's a a reliable hadeeth:yes:

You DO get the points, don't you?

I was pointing out that it's also a 'need' and the wife's job is to fulfill her man's needs, whatever they were, eh? ah well..

By the way, the way you guys are talking, makes men look like sex freaks.

Oh it is? ok then..what if the wife asks that from her man and he refuses...is God going to curse him too?

It's not if I get the point .. I know what you mean .. But Never compare SEX with FOOD .. Doesn't work ..

Men are NOT sex freak .. Btw, If a guy asked for sex and once complain about it ... WOMEN complain all the time and DON'T tell me NOT !!!!

You Complain even about something DONE by yourself :o ..
NO one in the EARTH don't like SEX ..O' YAH .. believe it or not ..
MEN and WOMEN both ... This is something in YOU .. You can't change it .. YOU BORN with it ..
We talk about Married People so one of the things they should work on it is the UNDERSTANDING and CONSIDERATION of their NEEDS ..

Man chill!

I'm not saying you can't have that 'forever!' I was saying what if when he asked the wife couldn't do it! FOCUS! does she deserve to be cursed by God?! and what if the man does the same thing..is he going to be cursed? since the wife ALSO has the same needs?

Oh it is? ok then..what if the wife asks that from her man and he refuses...is God going to curse him too?

We are not asking GOD here ..Are we ???!!!!:o
Both have to work it out between them ... Compromises are the Solution here .. She give him wut he need and He do the same .. But Both have to think of the other partner NEED before his/her . ..

We are not asking GOD here ..Are we ???!!!!:o
This is...well, I won't say it.


Both have to work it out between them ... Compromises are the Solution here .. She give him wut he need and He do the same .. But Both have to think of the other partner NEED before his/her . ..
This is what I'm talking about! they SHOULD understand! both sides..

Then, I need someone who's knowledgeable enough to tell me! why would she be cursed if it's not about disobeying her husband and more of a physical/emotional status thing?!

Man chill!

I'm not saying you can't have that 'forever!' I was saying what if when he asked the wife couldn't do it! FOCUS! does she deserve to be cursed by God?! and what if the man does the same thing..is he going to be cursed? since the wife ALSO has the same needs?

If He ask her for it, She can refuse and EXPLAIN WHY NOT!!! He could understand her needs and just not ask her @ that time anymore :yes: .. But if He insist , She has to do it ..
Is he going to be Cursed ?! DOn't ask me :) ..
BUT , As she complies to his needs , He should do the SAME .. God ask men to be fair to their wives .. AND to treat them in a gentle way ..

This is...well, I won't say it.


This is what I'm talking about! they SHOULD understand! both sides..

Then, I need someone who's knowledgeable enough to tell me! why would she be cursed if it's not about disobeying her husband and more of a physical/emotional status thing?!

But You said .. If he ask for it and she refuses .. What they call it ??!!
Disagreement ..!

Just for comparison, Oblivious, we Catholics say that both parties in a marriage have a "marital right". That means we should try very hard to say, "Yes" to each other. That's because husband and wife both have a right to ask for sex from each other.

So, if we step back from single ahadith and ayat, what is the whole doctrine for Muslims? Is it different? The same? Or part different and part the same?

Thnx Jeff ..

Obli .. Your Hadeeth is not COMPLETE ..
BTW , Angels will curse U , NOT God ..

OBLIVIOUS .. Evidences ;

Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:
“When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him, thus he spends the night in anger, then the angels curse her until morning.” (Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim, See: Riyad al-Salihin, No. 281)


Talq ibn Ali (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:
“When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy, then she should come, even if she is (busy) in the cooking area.” (Sunan al-Tirmizi & Sunan al-Nasa’i)


Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:
“By the one in whose hands is my life, there is not a man who calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him except that Allah becomes angry with her until her husband is pleased with her.” (Sahih Muslim, No. 1436)

This is what I read! dont know....and which was considered "kabeera".

Jeff, I know! this is why I'm asking...they have to try...etc, but what if they couldn't and why only the wife?

OBLIVIOUS .. Evidences ;

Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:


“When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him, thus he spends the night in anger, then the angels curse her until morning.” (Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim, See: Riyad al-Salihin, No. 281)


Talq ibn Ali (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:


“When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy, then she should come, even if she is (busy) in the cooking area.” (Sunan al-Tirmizi & Sunan al-Nasa’i)


Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:


“By the one in whose hands is my life, there is not a man who calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him except that Allah becomes angry with her until her husband is pleased with her.” (Sahih Muslim, No. 1436)

See, allah not angels. lol

Anyway, I get that..poor guy he'll sleep angry, OK. Is it vice-versa? anyone knows?

Oh, God angry and Angels curse..OK, sorry.

What I'm saying is this is does not in any way mean that the husband may force himself over her for sexual gratification. The Hadith mentions that,
“the husband spends the night in anger or being displeased,”
which clearly shows that he must restrain himself from forcing himself over her.

the wife must obey her husband in his request for sexual intimacy unless she has a valid reason. She must obey him as long as she does not have to forego her own rights. As such, if the wife is ill, fears physical harm or she is emotionally drained, etc; she will not be obliged to comply with her husband’s request for sexual intimacy. Rather, the husband would be required to show her consideration.

Allah Most High says:
“On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear” (al-Baqarah, 286)

Oh, God angry and Angels curse..OK, sorry.

Accepted :D lol ..

Many times it is observed that the husband demands from his wife to fulfil his sexual needs no matter what state she is in, and uses the above quoted Hadiths to impose himself over her.

If the wife is not in a state to engage in sexual activities and has a genuine and valid reason, and the husband forces her, then he will be sinful. Muslim husbands should realize that their wives are also humans and not some type of machines that can be switched on whenever they desire!

This matter should be resolved with mutual understanding, regard for one another, love, gentleness and putting one’s spouse before one’s self.

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) has reported to have said:
“None of you can be a true believer until they love for their brother what they love for themselves.”

Wut about your HUSBAND or WIFE :)

FATWA;

Title ; Can a Wife Refuse Her Husband's Bed?
Question;
As-Salamu `alaykum. My question is that I want to know if a wife is not interested in sex, does it become compulsory on her to obey her husband in having sex? Please let me know as I am confused!

ANSWER;
Islam cares for establishing a lovely relation between a man and his wife. It calls upon both parties to exchange love, show respect, and care for each other. This applies to all aspects of their life: social, intellectual, intimate, etc.
Moreover, Islam pays great attention to the intimate aspect of the husband-wife relationship. Once, when the Prophet got to know that one of his Companions used to spend the whole night in prayer, he immediately gave the Prophetic guidance “Your eyes has a right over you, your guests have a right over you and your wife has a right over you.” (Reported by Al-Bukhari).

In another occasion, the Prophet directed the man to how he should approach his wife, He said: “None of you should fall upon his wife like an animal; but let there first be a messenger between you.” The Companions exclaimed, “What is that messenger?” The Prophet replied, “Kisses and (romantic) words!” (Reported by Al-Daylami)
If these are guidelines on the side of man, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), on the other hand, urged the woman to respond to her husband if he called her to make love. Abu Hurayrah narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till the morning.”

Given these general guidelines, one can conclude that, in response to the specific points indicated in the question, among the duties of a wife towards her husband are that she should satisfy his needs, withhold him from falling into the unlawful and exchange love and affection with him.
If the wife declines his desire to make love with her, he may be psychologically affected and experience physical ailments related to this (e.g. stimulation excitation, congestion and sexual suppression due to the lack of ejaculation).
In the same vein, the wife may go through similar problems and experience the same sufferings if her man declined to meet her sexual needs.

Therefore it is of the wisdom of the Shari`ah that it calls both parties to understand and respond to the natural need of each other. If both husband and wife respond to each other, they will maintain each other’s love, care and affection. Conversely, if they refuse, the relationship can deteriorate. This may also lead one of them to deviate from the right path and look for pleasure outside the marriage. This will eventually lead to the breakdown of the family and the disintegration of the society at large.
However, it is to be added that if the wife is physiologically or physically ill and unable to respond to her husband's call then he should be considerate of her condition and never harm her in any way.

In this context, the late Sheikh Ibn al-`Uthaymin, the well-known Saudi scholar, adds:
If the wife is psychologically ill and is not able to actively respond to her husband's call or if she has a physical illness, then in such cases it is not allowed for the husband to call her to bed. This is because the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said "There is to be no harm done or reciprocation of harm." He should either refrain or enjoy her company in such a way that does not harm her.

LINK (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544176)

Well, you've got to admit there's a huge difference between, "Not now, honey, I've got a headache" and "Oh, my God, who are YOU!"

Part of marriage is a general permission to have sex with each other.

I admit it's brutal and nasty for a man to take his wife when she says no, but it seems to me quite different from taking someone whom you have no right to whatsoever.

And of course, if the man beats his wife or hurts her in some way, it's a different matter. But it would be a different matter whether he "raped" her or not.

So, I think there's a problem with the idea of "marital rape."

"I do", means "Yes, you can have sex with me," not, "We'll see about that. Applications will be taken on a case-by-case basis."
Jeff, for any kind of sex, there must be mutual consent for it not to be rape.

Let's say two married people have an argument. The husband wants sex, she refuses because she doesn't feel the moment is right for love making (she's still very angry with him and not in the mood), but he demands it and forces his way on her, against her explicit wishes. He is violating her body, point blank.

Rape isn't the act of forced sex with a stranger. It is the act of forced sex. Full STOP.

No one said it ur fault :bored: ...
Wut men need from their wives is the understanding of his needs :angel:
and what about the understanding of hers?

Men holding their sexual needs in their number 1 priority need to grow a frikken conscience, that's what.

What I'm saying is this is does not in any way mean that the husband may force himself over her for sexual gratification. The Hadith mentions that,
“the husband spends the night in anger or being displeased,”
which clearly shows that he must restrain himself from forcing himself over her.

the wife must obey her husband in his request for sexual intimacy unless she has a valid reason. She must obey him as long as she does not have to forego her own rights. As such, if the wife is ill, fears physical harm or she is emotionally drained, etc; she will not be obliged to comply with her husband’s request for sexual intimacy. Rather, the husband would be required to show her consideration.

Allah Most High says:
“On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear” (al-Baqarah, 286)



Why does she need to OBEY? Why is it a command? Why is it not a moment where they both feel like it?

Scenario 1:

"Hey! Shall we play a game of chess? Do you feel like it?"
"Oh yes! Great idea! I'm so looking forward to kicking your *ss. haha!"

Scenario 2:

"Woman. I want to play chess. You will play with me. I demand it."
"I don't feel like playing tonight."
"What are your reasons!!!"
"Well, I just don't feel like it!"
*Shock* "I am very displeased with you woman and I shall spend the night in anger and be very displeased!"


Can you see the difference?

I wouldn't even want to have sex with my husband unless he was 100% up to it. Even if I was a man. My partner is a person I love. Not my private sexual self gratification toy.

If the wife declines his desire to make love with her, he may be psychologically affected and experience physical ailments related to this (e.g. stimulation excitation, congestion and sexual suppression due to the lack of ejaculation).
In the same vein, the wife may go through similar problems and experience the same sufferings if her man declined to meet her sexual needs.

Thats without a doubt the biggest ******** ever.. Why don't these scholars call it "blue balls" while they're at it.. Seriously if they become that angry and have these so called "physical ailments" then what the fudge was the husband doing before he got married??!!!!!! he sure as heck didn't have pre-marital sex if he was that pure muslim the scholars expect us to be :angry: this also applies to the women as well..


Therefore it is of the wisdom of the Shari`ah that it calls both parties to understand and respond to the natural need of each other. If both husband and wife respond to each other, they will maintain each other’s love, care and affection.


See this is the part where it should matter more than sex. There needs to be understanding between one another before they could have sex.. sex is intimacy.. sex is love.. sex is sharing love and showing it to one another! if both parties agree it to it then they're good to go.. but if one just doesn't want to have sex then that means something wrong.. something is affecting their relationship.. maybe the husband did something wrong.. or maybe he didn't approach her right. If the women are the gentle kind of our species then us men must treat them gently as we're instructed by the religion!

Can you see the difference?

Again ........... SEX is NOT CHESS or FOOD :)

Well about the fasting thing, i did not know, nor do i care!!!
but about the Sex thing like if he wants it u have to give it to him either ur u like it or not...well before u get married u can write down one of ur shroo6 meaning (dont know it in english) is that well i dont know wut it is in like saying proper form but it means when ur mad or something and he says come sleep with me u can say no

Again ........... SEX is NOT CHESS or FOOD :)
this is a little "emergency exit" you like to use.

I used chess as an euphemism since it's a serious subforum. Change chess with the word sex and "kick your *ss" with "climaxing with you" .. ha. There you go. Escape this one. :hmm:

Thats without a doubt the biggest ******** ever.. Why don't these scholars call it "blue balls" while they're at it.. Seriously if they become that angry and have these so called "physical ailments" then what the fudge was the husband doing before he got married??!!!!!! he sure as heck didn't have pre-marital sex if he was that pure muslim the scholars expect us to be :angry: this also applies to the women as well..



See this is the part where it should matter more than sex. There needs to be understanding between one another before they could have sex.. sex is intimacy.. sex is love.. sex is sharing love and showing it to one another! if both parties agree it to it then they're good to go.. but if one just doesn't want to have sex then that means something wrong.. something is affecting their relationship.. maybe the husband did something wrong.. or maybe he didn't approach her right. If the women are the gentle kind of our species then us men must treat them gently as we're instructed by the religion!
Kudos to you for this post! Finally, someone gets it!

Sex is sharing, not demanding, Not obeying. It is sharing an intimate experience and making love TO your spouse.

Prophet mohammed always advised husbands to start the sexual intecourse smoothly (kissing, playing don't know if I translated it correctly, but thats what I remember hearing) and I don't think that the same person who said that would ask the man to DEMAND for sex :os
I think the what the Hadith says is applicable for both, the husband and the wife, and the women would be cursed when she repeatedly repels her husband, because that would cause him to take the wrong path and fall into adultery..

after writing this, I noticed that LS already mentioned it!
thanx LS

Fengy , Have you read all what I wrote .. Or you like to pick and read what you want and how you want to think ot and not understand it in its right meaning

What I'm saying is this is does not in any way mean that the husband may force himself over her for sexual gratification. The Hadith mentions that,
“the husband spends the night in anger or being displeased,”
which clearly shows that he must restrain himself from forcing himself over her.

the wife must obey her husband in his request for sexual intimacy unless she has a valid reason. She must obey him as long as she does not have to forego her own rights. As such, if the wife is ill, fears physical harm or she is emotionally drained, etc; she will not be obliged to comply with her husband’s request for sexual intimacy. Rather, the husband would be required to show her consideration.

Allah Most High says:
“On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear” (al-Baqarah, 286)


If the wife is not in a state to engage in sexual activities and has a genuine and valid reason, and the husband forces her, then he will be sinful. Muslim husbands should realize that their wives are also humans and not some type of machines that can be switched on whenever they desire!

This matter should be resolved with mutual understanding, regard for one another, love, gentleness and putting one’s spouse before one’s self.

^ good to know..

just pick a husband whose upper half is functioning as well ;)

this is a little "emergency exit" you like to use.

I used chess as an euphemism since it's a serious subforum. Change chess with the word sex and "kick your *ss" with "climaxing with you" .. ha. There you go. Escape this one. :hmm:

Not me honey:p; Believe me, never used the "Emergency Exist" and Never will ;) .. I'm not one of them ... You don't know me enough :p

Now as euphemism SEX = CHESS ... Nice try :rolleyes: ..
I'm not gonna Escape .. I'll try scope diving this time :boo:

^ good to know..

just pick a husband whose upper half is functioning as well ;)

Are you sure You are in the right thread !:)

yes? :think:

:bored: look, all I'm saying is..I'm with what you posted..but that doesn't mean all men are gonna go by it, so to avoid such thing, marry someone with a brain! :cute:

Jeff, for any kind of sex, there must be mutual consent for it not to be rape.

Let's say two married people have an argument. The husband wants sex, she refuses because she doesn't feel the moment is right for love making (she's still very angry with him and not in the mood), but he demands it and forces his way on her, against her explicit wishes. He is violating her body, point blank.

Rape isn't the act of forced sex with a stranger. It is the act of forced sex. Full STOP.

Well, this is exactly where we disagree.

Rape is not, I agree, an act of forced sex with a stranger. But it IS an act of forced sex with someone to whom you have not given permission for sex.

When you get married, you give your spouse a general permission to have sex with you. It's just not at all a violation of the same kind if your husband has sex without a specific permission.

One is not as a husband in the same position as a friend or admirer or stranger when one asks for sex. This is part of what being married means.

Now, I fully agree that if a husband forces his wife, he is being a cad. But not a rapist. So, I refuse and refute your full stop.

And BTW, you would get an even more heated argument from my wife on this question than you would from me. "No such thing as marital rape," she will tell you. "A contradiction in terms." I agree with her.

Well, this is exactly where we disagree.

Rape is not, I agree, an act of forced sex with a stranger. But it IS an act of forced sex with someone to whom you have not given permission for sex.

When you get married, you give your spouse a general permission to have sex with you. It's just not at all a violation of the same kind if your husband has sex without a specific permission.

One is not as a husband in the same position as a friend or admirer or stranger when one asks for sex. This is part of what being married means.

Now, I fully agree that if a husband forces his wife, he is being a cad. But not a rapist. So, I refuse and refute your full stop.

And BTW, you would get an even more heated argument from my wife on this question than you would from me. "No such thing as marital rape," she will tell you. "A contradiction in terms." I agree with her.
Then we'll agree to disagree. :)

Just because husband and wife are expected to have sex once they are married, it doesn't mean either of them can "take" it from the other unless it is "given" to them by consent. And no, the marriage vows are not an ever binding consent for sex even if one of them doesn't want to at the time.

It IS a different kind of rape. That's why it's called "marital rape" and not simply "rape". But is it rape none the less.

In marital rape the circumstances are very different. It is - quite apart from a physical and sexual violation - a betrayal of trust. Here is a person whom you thought you knew intimately, with whom you share a history, a home and quite often children. Here is a person whom you have made love to on a frequent basis often over many years, with whom you have shared your most intimate secrets and fears, and whom you believe to love you, want the best for you, who would never intentionally hurt you. Marital rape is so destructive because it betrays the fundamental basis of the marital relationship, because it questions every understanding you have not only of your partner and the marriage, but of yourself. You end up feeling betrayed, humiliated and, above all, very confused.
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Articles/maritalrape.htm

Fengy , Have you read all what I wrote .. Or you like to pick and read what you want and how you want to think ot and not understand it in its right meaning
Ok. so you contradict yourself alot. That's not my fault. LOL

Defeinition of Obey:

o·bey (ō-bā')

v., o·beyed, o·bey·ing, o·beys.

v.tr.
To carry out or fulfill the command, order, or instruction of.
To carry out or comply with (a command, for example).

OK, let's think of it this way..

The husband is hungry and wants his wife to cook for him..the wife is really really tired so she didn't cook. So, it's the man's 'need' to eat! but the wife couldn't fulfill it...does that mean God will curse her? it's the same thing! the man wants to 'make love', the wife is tired, not feeling it..whatever. Can't he wait? and vice-versa. Come on, you know how big deal is God cursing someone!

Now, no one told me if that's a reliable hadeeth, lol. Seems like it is? :bored:
It IS a reliable hadeeth, as far as what we were told in school. Knowing this is not a shock for me, 'cause I already know it since last year. As I said we studied it in school and it was listed under the man's rights and woman's duties.

*sigh*
as people of the 21st century a muslim man wouldnt act like a caveman and ORDER his wife to do what he want as if shes his slave !
at this time theres understanding between a man and a woman and a man WOULD and SHOULD understand if his wife cant fullfil his request and same thing goes vice versa !
i knw that coz i saw how my father and uncles and other members of my family treat their wives !
yeh the verse is there but a man would not treat his wife in a cruel manner unless hes a cruel person and at that time it wouldnt differ what his religion is !

*sigh*
as people of the 21st century a muslim man wouldnt act like a caveman and ORDER his wife to do what he want as if shes his slave !
at this time theres understanding between a man and a woman and a man WOULD and SHOULD understand if his wife cant fullfil his request and same thing goes vice versa !
i knw that coz i saw how my father and uncles and other members of my family treat their wives !
yeh the verse is there but a man would not treat his wife in a cruel manner unless hes a cruel person and at that time it wouldnt differ what his religion is !
I second that..

Hmm...
You know sometimes we need to use our minds a little...
Would a prophet who says 'Women are as fragile as glass, so be tender in treating them' say something about women not obeying the call of bed even if they're dying as 'cursed'? Obviously the prophet PBUH must have said this in respect to the advice he gave us about treating women. Always remember when reading hadiths the virtues that Islam teaches: kindess and love.

If you treat your wife so tenderly, and then she says: "You know what dude? I really feel this like 'no sex day'" over and over again...And you ask her why? And she just bickers on...And you fix yourself and do your best so that she's okay again and see how she feels and try to comfort her and yet she bickers on...I mean, doesn't she DESERVE some punishment after all? Notice how the prophet PBUH didn't say, 'Then just have your way' but he said that Allah SWT will curse her, which shows you how important marriage and sex are in Islam. Isn't she doing something bad to YOUR feelings if she refuses to come to bed WITHOUT an explanation. Remember, an explanation of WHY not coming to bed is integeral...As far as the Qura'an is concerned, you can never have intercourse with your wife if she's menstruating for example.

The prophet PBUH went on to say that having illegal sex is a sin but having legal sex has the virtue of giving charity. It is not, henceforth, to be pursued by violent means if it's supposed to be so pure.