View Full Version : Poems/ Lyrics?


TripleTee
14-04-07, 06:57 PM
Alright this really confuses me sometimes...
can someone list down the types of poetry there is?

I see not all poems rhyme. What do you call those that don't rhyme?? Isn't it Lyrics?
Or are lyrics a type of poetry?

:XD:

Dark Project
15-04-07, 01:56 PM
Here are some comments ,

Lyric poems and song lyrics share much in common. The main distinction is that poems carry the music internally in the writing itself The biggest difference is that the meter of a poem is basically dictated by the number of syllables in a line (I assume we're talking about rhyming poems), so the rhyming patterns are pretty well fixed. In music, though, a syllable does not necessarily count for only one beat. There can be intervening beats between words or syllables, so that lines of completely unequal length can still rhyme just fine. Also, since poems don't have a rhythm section and melody to prop them up, the words had better be damned strong.

When I have occasionally commented that a lyric reads more like a poem than a lyric, it is often met with great defensiveness...the fact is that I think there are very few "poets" who can manage to merge their poems with music. It has really only been done with any great success by a very few people.
To me, good poetry has always been an intense listening experience...had there been music, it would definitely have taken away from the feel of the poem. Poetry can take on many faces, it can rhyme or not rhyme at all, it can have a metered, rhythmic feel, or it can have none. The latest poetry reading I was at (these were published and locally known poets), was more like a prose reading...nobody read anything that rhymed, and yet there was a rise and fall in intensity and emotion that could only be described as kind of tidal.
On the other hand, good lyrics/good songs, have always had a beautiful blend of music and words such that I can't remember one without the other they are so intertwined.
And that's about as definitive as I can be!
Semantics, context purpose. What do you, in your creative process, wish to say? How to best get your ideas, feelings, emotions into words, music or prose. When one needs to express these feelings, the medium is not important. The ability to provoke the heart is a gift. We write lyrics to tell our stories. We write poems to explain them /or vice versa.

A poem is a slave to the written word ... Extricated from it's connection to the music which may normally convey emotion synergistically. In Short A poem is more focused lyrically The song is synergistically focused between lyric and musical expression

Poetry is a form of literature, it is a body of poems ( I tend to agree with it )

TripleTee
15-04-07, 02:47 PM
^^We write lyrics to tell our stories. We write poems to explain them /or vice versa.
^^that point was interesting... but the vice versa confused me again...
so poems are simply anything written without music and lyrics are written for music :os :mmhmm:...

which means what comes under the category of poetry can be anything...

:XD:... hmm... ight... thanks DP :)

Dark Project
15-04-07, 06:20 PM
That is how its defined I guess :) you are welcome TTT

Threadlike
16-04-07, 04:34 PM
There are many types of poetry in terms of form...
Lyrics bases itself around music...Usually, musicians write the music before writing the lyrics...It obviously depends on the writing talent of the musician that he can make his lyrics seem like poetry. Many bands and artists have suceeded in that, check out Kashmir or Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin for an example out of many.

Poetry in itself is a completely different thing. For one thing it does NOT have to rely on music to be poetry or even have a beat! It is the worst when people read free-verse and go, 'This is not poetry' because that is exactly what critics said of T.S Eliot when he first came out (NOTE: Eliot won a 1948 Nobel Prize). Shakespeare used to write in something called blank verse which focuses on stresses on syllables in a line. So techincally, the lines really don't have to rhyme but the syllables (most commonly five in a line) always go with the flow. Rhyme is rarely used in Shakesperean plays or poetry but I do not know if it was used by others of the Elizabethean era. Rhyme was used by most famous names such as Longfellow, Wordsworth, Tennyson among others, all of whom had at some point used rhyme. Most poets (even some of the modernist ones) have used rhyme at a point in their poetry. The modernist movements starting in the 20s by the likes of Ezra Pound and T.S. Eliot were based on a new type of verse, free-verse. A verse that needs no rhyme, but relied heavily on meaning and basic rythym. Eliot's poetry is full of allusion and deep ideas that many cannot grasp at first or even second read without the help of a critic.

So technically, even a poet who writes rhymed poetry is always taken to care more about the meaning than keeping the rhyme going. Anyone who sacrifices one for the other should completely forget writing a poem in such a context as it will come either meaningless or with traces of hopeful rhyme that may make it sound bad.

iamnasra
24-04-07, 09:24 AM
This was so educational for me ....
Thank you so much ...Threadlike and DP

Jeff
24-04-07, 10:27 AM
Lyrics and lyric poetry are not the same.

Lyrics just means poetry written for a song.

Lyric poetry is poetry that is usually short and songlike, but not usually meant originally for singing.

In ancient Greece, all poetry was for singing. And when you sang, you played your lyre:

http://www.mishkanministries.org/images/lyre.jpg

Kind of like the guitar of the day... So, poetry for singing or song-like poetry is called "lyric".

Poetry can rhyme or it can be blank verse like Shakespeare.

Or it can just sound cool with unorganized rhythms and no rhymes:

A NOISELESS, patient spider,
I mark’d, where, on a little promontory, it stood, isolated;


Mark’d how, to explore the vacant, vast surrounding,
It launch’d forth filament, filament, filament, out of itself;
Ever unreeling them—ever tirelessly speeding them.

And you, O my Soul, where you stand,
Surrounded, surrounded, in measureless oceans of space,
Ceaselessly musing, venturing, throwing,—seeking the spheres, to connect them;
Till the bridge you will need, be form’d—till the ductile anchor hold;
Till the gossamer thread you fling, catch somewhere, O my Soul.

Read it aloud, slowly and carefully, and you'll see how cool it is!

Or you can play with internal rhymes the way ancient English did before it picked up the Italian habit of rhyming at the end of lines. Here's J. R. R. Tolkien doing that in one of my favorite poems by him:

When the moon was new and the sun young
of silver and gold the gods sung:
in the green grass they silver spilled,
and the white waters they with gold filled.
Ere the pit was dug or Hell yawned,
ere dwarf was bred or dragon spawned,
there were Elves of old, and strong spells
under green hills in hollow dells
they sang as they wrought many fair things,
and the bright crowns of the Elf-kings.
But their doom fell, and their song waned,
by iron hewn and by steel chained.
Greed that sang not, nor with mouth smiled,
in dark holes their wealth piled,
graven silver and carven gold:
over Elvenhome the shadow rolled.

See how each line divides in half and you "rhyme" the vowel sounds inside and match up the consonant sounds:

WheN the mOON was NEW / and the sUN yOUNG..

THAT's REAL English poetry, using the native characteristics of the language, rather than borrowed ones...

I'm afraid the number of types of poetry is not limited! And there are different ways to divide it up! Sometimes things fit in more than one category.

And then there are particular forms, like sonnets. Or particular purposes, like odes. Or particular styles and lengths like epic poetry. There's no simple way to divide it up!

Narrative poetry tells a story and it's usually long, like Tolkien's Hoard above. Lyric poetry is the opposite, short and sweet and songlike, like this one that always makes me cry about an innocent, naive young girl abandoned by her lover:

MOTHER, I cannot mind my wheel;
My fingers ache, my lips are dry:
O, if you felt the pain I feel!
But O, who ever felt as I?

No longer could I doubt him true—
All other men may use deceit;
He always said my eyes were blue,
And often swore my lips were sweet.

or this one by Leigh Hunt, who knew the value of a single kiss:

Jenny kissed me when we met,
Jumping from the chair she sat in.
Time, you thief! who love to get
Sweets into your list, put that in.
Say I'm weary, say I'm sad;
Say that health and wealth have missed me;
Say I'm growing old, but add-
Jenny kissed me!

I may be poor and getting old, but...Jenny KISSED ME! :p

And Threadlike will tell you that T. S. Eliot has wonderful poems where some parts rhyme and other parts don't:

We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.

Poetry is great: you'll never come to the end of exploring it.

iamnasra
24-04-07, 11:15 PM
Who true ...and right about this Jeff ...I add more knoweldge as I sip through the foutain of thoughts where poetry springs more into me

Thanks