View Full Version : Teachings of the Jewish Talmud
Some of the teachings of the Talmud.
Where a Jew Should Do Evil
Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.
Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis
Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.
Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God
Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.
O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews
Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
Jews Have Superior Legal Status
Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
Jews May Steal from Non-Jews
Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."
Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews
Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
Jews May Lie to Non-Jews
Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.
Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Insults Against Blessed Mary
Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a *****: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.source (http://www.come-and-hear.com/tcontents.html)
Do all Jews follow it instead of the Torah?
IceTea can you provide a source please ?
Damn Tea ... alot of that sounds very famaliar. I can't put my finger on it yet where Iv'e heard almost identical teachings. Maybe It'll come to me later. I am old ya know!
amo_l_oman
18-03-07, 05:06 PM
Damn Tea ... alot of that sounds very famaliar. I can't put my finger on it yet where Iv'e heard almost identical teachings. Maybe It'll come to me later. I am old ya know!
Am sure you talking about this :)
…We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs, but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. [Quran]
To save one life is as if you have saved the world [Talmud]
You might as well enjoy this book, to learn about the meaning of the above verses :
Among the righteous (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6624599)
fouad24
18-03-07, 10:57 PM
IceTea can you provide a source please ?
OK THOSE ARE HIDDEN TEACHINGS ALL THE WORLD NOW KNOW ABOUT THEM
BUT HAVE A SMALL PAPER AND COUNT HOW MANY KIDS WERE KILLED WHEREVER THERE IS JEWS ARMY.
KANA 2 TIMES
WHY? BECAUSE GOD LIKES BLOOD FROM THE NONE JEWS!!!
THIS IS ONE OF THE TEACHINGS iCE Tea is talking about
still, source is needed to back up any claim :) (thank you IceTea)
Here is an excerpt from a discussion at Wikipedia:
You haven’t simply "just pointed out which chapters the critics criticize", you have copied & pasted them in the way he has distorted them. You provide links which are worded differently. e.g.: You added: Sanhedrin 58b: If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed" yet the link says: "R’ Hanina said: If a heathen smites (kills?) a Jew, he is worthy of death". You have also not provided the response to the erroneous interpretations which leaves the section very POV. The Talmud, written in an age when the Roman Empire ruled the most world, is written in a way that requires each line to be delved into and not just read on face value. Put simply, just as the Bible cannot be understood without the Talmud, so too the Talmud cannot be understood without the commentaries of the early-day saints.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Criticism_of_Judaism
I haven't delved into this much, but a lot of this reminds me of the way people pick ou certain Quran verses and stories from the life of Mohammed and then use them to cricize Islam without asking the Muslims what they think, if they are true, how the Muslims interpret them...etc.
It's always a good idea to be fair when criticizing people's religions; otherwise, you have no complaint if they are not fair to you...
Can we have the PROPER source.... Ok I know its probably a Michael Hoffman (notorious Anti-Jew) pamphlet... but who you trying to kid?
for example your copy and paste says this
"Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed."
But in your source it has this:
R. Hanina said: If a heathen smites a Jew, he is worthy of death,21 for it is written, And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian.22 R. Hanina also said: He who smites an Israelite on the jaw, is as though he had thus assaulted the Divine Presence; for it is written, one who smiteth23 man [i.e. an Israelite] attacketh24 the Holy One.25
^^and that is derived from Exodus 2:12
Your copy and paste
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Now find it....
http://www.come-and-hear.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_98.html
^^^
This is why it's so irresponsible to just post these things from websites that attack religions and not do the research first.
Don't trust Christian or anti-Islamic websites that attack Islam without checking with the Muslims first. Don't trust Muslim or anti-Jewish websites that attack Judaism without going to the Jews for their explanation first.
Be FAIRMINDED. Don't just believe everything your "own people" say...especially about others.
That information posted in this link http://www.hoffman-info.com/talmudtruth.html.
But anyway if that is not true, can you tell us what does the Talmud teach and isn't it a man made book by rabbies?
But anyway if that is not true, can you tell us what does the Talmud teach and isn't it a man made book by rabbies?
First off I'd just like to say I wish Monotheism was here to explain this..:)
But because I'm kind of lame at describing it here is a link:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/talmud_&_mishna.html
Here is what I understand the Jews to say in brief.
The Torah is the Law of God. Moses received the Torah in two forms, Written and Oral. The Oral Torah is the understanding of the Written Torah that God gave to Moses. The Oral Torah was originally passed down through word of mouth. But over time it was written down by the great Rabbis and Sages as an aid to memorization by students.
The Oral Torah that was written down is one part of the Talmud. This part of the Talmud is called the Mishnah.
There is a second part of the Talmud called the Gemara. The Gemara consists of explanations and analysis of the Torah by the great and wise scholars and teachers of Judaism.
Together, the Mishnah and the Gemara are called the Talmud.
I think if you compare these ideas to Islamic theology about the Ahadith, the Sira, and Tafsir, you will get some idea of what the Talmud is and in what ways it is authoritative.
The problem that all Religions of the Book face is that written texts don't explain themselves. People can always misunderstand them. And people can always think of questions that need new answers. People can even misuse them for evil ends and persuade people of incorrect things.
The Bible even has the story of the Temptation of Jesus. The Devil tries to tempt or mislead Jesus by quoting Scripture to Him. Jesus of course passes the test. But Christians have a saying, "Even the Devil quotes Scripture."
So most forms of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity have authoritative commentary on their scriptures. And most forms have ways to come to trustworthy conclusions about questions.
Okay, here is some OTHER stuff from the Talmud about stealing from non-Jews (Jews call us "Gentiles" or in Hebrew "Goyim". Muslims, Christians, and everybody else are all "Goyim." I'm a Goy and you are too! :p ).
Tosefta Bava Kamma 10:8
It is worse to steal from a gentile than from a Jew because of desecration of [G-d's] name.
Jerusalem Talmud Bava Metzia 2:5 (7a)
R. Chaninah told this story: Some rabbinic scholars bought one pile of wheat from some gentile soldiers. [The scholars] found in it a bundle of money and returned it to [the soldiers]. [The soldiers] said "Blessed is the G-d of the Jews."
(I like the next one because it's about Jews and Arabs...)
Midrash Devarim Rabbah 3:3
Once, Rabbi Shimon ben Shetach bought a donkey from an Arab. His students went and found a precious stone hanging around [the donkey's] neck. Rabbi said to him [Proverbs 10:22] "It is the blessing of G-d that enriches." R. Shimon ben Shetach said to him "I bought a donkey. I did not buy a precious stone." He went and returned it to the Arab and the Arab said "Blessed is the G-d of Shimon ben Shetach."
Jerusalem Talmud Bava Metzia 2:5 (7a)
R. Shmuel ben Sustrai went to Rome when the empress had lost her bracelet and he found it. A decree was proclaimed in the region that anyone who returned it within 30 days would be paid such and such; anyone who returned it after 30 days would be beheaded. He didn't return it within 30 days but after 30 days. She said to him "Weren't you in the region?" He replied "Yes." She said to him "Didn't you hear the proclamation?" He replied "Yes." She said to him "What was it?" He replied "Whoever returns it within 30 days will receive such and such; whoever returns it after 30 days will be beheaded." She said to him "And why didn't you return it within 30 days?" He replied "So that you wouldn't say that I did it because of fear of you; rather I did it out of fear of G-d." She said to him "Blessed is the G-d of the Jews."
So...I think you will see that it's dangerous to take things out of context.
If you want to read an explanation of what Ice Tea's quotation about stealing from non-Jews means, you can read this (I got the quotes from here):
http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/theft.html
If you want read about the other claims contained in Ice Tea's quotations, claims of racism in the Talmud, go here:
http://talmud.faithweb.com/
Then scroll down until you come to the heading "Alleged Racism in the Talmud". Click on the links for answers to the questions.
NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION YOU BELIEVE IN, GOD LOVES HONESTY AND FAIR-DEALING. HE DOESN'T LOVE BELIEVING LIES ABOUT OTHERS.
But anyway if that is not true, can you tell us what does the Talmud teach and isn't it a man made book by rabbies?
They are all man-made books with man-made teachings. Some helpful, some brutal and ugly.
Like theirs in the North, like theirs in the West, like theirs down South, like yours.
Like the last one, like the next one.
Question Jeff why all the quotes from the Talmud says G-d instead of God ?
Jeff correct me if I am wrong :
The Talmud to the Jews is like Hadith to Muslims and the Torah to the Jews is like the Quran to Muslims.
^^ I guess thats correct..
They write G-d not God in a way to show respect, someone might print papers that contain Gods name and then someone else might step on it, I think thats why! :think:
They write G-d not God in a way to show respect, someone might print papers that contain Gods name and then someone else might step on it, I think thats why! :think:
Don't you watch Jeopardy ?
Vowels are expensive.
Good explanation Braiki God"s name must always be respected but this is the English translation of the Talmud;do they still write it the same way in Hebrew language?
I suppose they do, but it's not a dash, they write one letter in a wrong way.. Am not sure though, anyone who has knowledge can correct me..
Don't you watch Jeopardy ?
Vowels are expensive.
do you mean Jews are mean even in that!!!!
fouad24
19-03-07, 10:41 PM
clouds i think that The Talmud is a secret teachings not all the jews know about it not like the Hadith .
I suppose they do, but it's not a dash, they write one letter in a wrong way.. Am not sure though, anyone who has knowledge can correct me..
I think I found the answer, you are absoluetly right Braiki in Hebrew they don't write God the correct way, have a look at this :
Q. Why do some Jews spell God, "G-d"?
From Rabbi Jeffrey Wolfson Goldwasser
A. God's name is treated with unusual care in Jewish tradition. The divine name, YHWH (spelled with the Hebrew letters yud, hey, vav, hey) is never pronounced. Traditionally, Jews read the word "Adonai" (often translated as "the Lord") whenever reading God's holiest name in Torah or in prayer. However, "Adonai" is not God's name.
Among some traditional Jews, speaking even the word "Adonai" is avoided outside of worship or study. This "stand-in" for God's name is itself replaced by "Ha-Shem" ("The Name"). The practice also has been extended to other Hebrew words associated with God. For example, the Hebrew word "Elohim," which means "God" (the title, not God's name), is pronounced "Elokim" outside of prayer and study.
In recent years, some Jews have carried the practice even further by abstaining from writing the English word "God" and substituting the spelling, "G-d" or "Gd." However, there is no prohibition in Jewish law from writing "God" in any language other than Hebrew.
In fact, there is an often repeated story about Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, z"l, one of the foremost authorities of Modern Orthodoxy, who intentionally would write and erase the word "God" (in English) on the blackboard in front of his students at Yeshiva University in order to emphasize the fact this is not prohibited by Jewish law.
Some Reform Jews observe the custom of spelling God as "G-d." Most do not. In any case, it would be inappropriate and opposed to Jewish values to correct or shame a person for keeping this practice if it is done out of respect and reverence for God.
L'Shalom,
Rabbi Jeffrey W. Goldwasser
clouds i think that The Talmud is a secret teachings not all the jews know about it not like the Hadith .
The Talmud is not secret.
^^
That's true, it's all over the internet and bookstores! Never been secret...
Don't you watch Jeopardy ?
Vowels are expensive.
Okay, cute joke. I'm gonna rep you...
One thing about G-d...
Remeber, Hebrew is normally written without the little vowel markings that go on top: isn't Arabic also normally written without the vowel markings?
So, if you look at God's name as it it normally written in Hebrew, it's spelled without vowels: YHWH. And you never pronounce it. So the vowels sort of "don't exist."
Taking out the vowel in English and putting a dash seems like it follows the Hebrew pattern of writing the name without vowels..
I think I found the answer, you are absoluetly right Braiki in Hebrew they don't write God the correct way, have a look at this :
The term God is different to Gods Name. They would not deliberately write Gods Name with an upside down letter, that would be defacing it and thats prohibited. (I am talking about the 4 letters in Jeff and Clouds post)
This link gives an easy account of why Gods Name is not pronounced and Why G-d is used instead of God:
http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm
Okay, cute joke. I'm gonna rep you...
.... .._ .... clutches left arm
and then chest
faints
monotheism
22-03-07, 07:53 PM
First off I'd just like to say I wish Monotheism was here to explain this..:)
But because I'm kind of lame at describing it here is a link:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/talmud_&_mishna.html
Thanks, Kara.:) Well, you guys seemed to answer IceTea or find others who answer pretty well. If there's anything that's still not answered, please say so and I'll do my best to respond.
The Oral Torah that was written down is one part of the Talmud. This part of the Talmud is called the Mishnah.
There is a second part of the Talmud called the Gemara. The Gemara consists of explanations and analysis of the Torah by the great and wise scholars and teachers of Judaism.
Together, the Mishnah and the Gemara are called the Talmud.
Close, but actually the Talmud and the Gemara are one and the same. Also, the Talmud that was written down is one part of the Oral Torah.
Question Jeff why all the quotes from the Talmud says G-d instead of God ?
I already posted about that here: Why G-D? (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18916)
clouds i think that The Talmud is a secret teachings not all the jews know about it not like the Hadith .
Well, most Jews are today unfortunately not educated enough in it, but it is most definitely not meant to be kept secret.
Mono:
Thanks, but are you SURE the Torah doesn't include Gemara AND Mishnah? All the sources I can find on the internet say it includes both...
Threadlike
26-03-07, 01:35 PM
Okay, here's something I don't understand...
A Jewish dude around here told me that the Holy Land should not be given to illegal occupiers.
Okaay...But if the illegal occupiers are montheists (Muslims and Christians), then why should Jews kill them or eliminate them out of their land if (according to Jeff's link) they're supposed to achieve salvation:
In the Jewish worldview all gentiles who are ethical monotheists will achieve salvation
^^
I wonder if non-Jews are even allowed to own land in Palestine, according to monotheism. If they can't, maybe that explains the behavior of the drunken Jewish guy on Hitman's video. Remember, he was trespassing on the property of some people that looked like Christians and saying stuff like, "Get out, this is OUR land."
Threadlike
26-03-07, 03:19 PM
^Perhaps...Still waiting for monotheism or Kara!
Mono:
Thanks, but are you SURE the Torah doesn't include Gemara AND Mishnah? All the sources I can find on the internet say it includes both...
The Torah doesn't include the Gemara and Mishnah. But they do contain parts of the Oral Torah, which was supposed to be passed on orally from student to pupil. I think it goes along the lines of that not everything that happened in Moses' time was written down in the 1st five books, a lot of it was spoken and passed on to be remembered.
Judah the Prince feared it would be lost and wrote it down and I believe it was from what the Tanaim (1st Century?? Rabbis) were teaching, not sure about that... and that is the Mishnah. The later Rabbis in the Gemara added further commentary.
Trust me a complete set of the Talmud would rival that of Encylopaedia Brittanica.
Okay, here's something I don't understand...
A Jewish dude around here told me that the Holy Land should not be given to illegal occupiers.
Okaay...But if the illegal occupiers are montheists (Muslims and Christians), then why should Jews kill them or eliminate them out of their land if (according to Jeff's link) they're supposed to achieve salvation:
I think we should get one thing straight here, Jews are not trying to eliminate anyone although to some it may seem that way in regards to Israel.
Although I'm not sure what is meant by salvation, what I do know is that righteous gentiles or more correctly nation will have a place in the world to come. And what is meant by a righteous gentile is someone who adheres to the 7 Noahide Laws.
From the Talmud
"Righteous people of all nations have a share in the world to come" Sanhedrin 105a
But the world to come is not Israel. Pretty much it comes down to inheritance as bestowed by God. God gave Isaac Israel, to Ishmael He gave Arabia and to Esau/Edom (possibly refers to Christianity) He gave Seir.
I don't know if there is any Biblical or Talmudic reference to who is allowed to also reside in Israel or if they are allowed to get rid of the righteous gentiles that already live there.
The Torah doesn't include the Gemara and Mishnah. But they do contain parts of the Oral Torah, which was supposed to be passed on orally from student to pupil. I think it goes along the lines of that not everything that happened in Moses' time was written down in the 1st five books, a lot of it was spoken and passed on to be remembered.
Judah the Prince feared it would be lost and wrote it down and I believe it was from what the Tanaim (1st Century?? Rabbis) were teaching, not sure about that... and that is the Mishnah. The later Rabbis in the Gemara added further commentary.
Trust me a complete set of the Talmud would rival that of Encylopaedia Brittanica.
Yes, woops! I meant the Talmud, not the Torah. Mono says the Torah doesn't include the Mishnah, but that Gemara and Talmud are identical...
I think we should get one thing straight here, Jews are not trying to eliminate anyone although to some it may seem that way in regards to Israel.
Although I'm not sure what is meant by salvation, what I do know is that righteous gentiles or more correctly nation will have a place in the world to come. And what is meant by a righteous gentile is someone who adheres to the 7 Noahide Laws.
From the Talmud
"Righteous people of all nations have a share in the world to come" Sanhedrin 105a
But the world to come is not Israel. Pretty much it comes down to inheritance as bestowed by God. God gave Isaac Israel, to Ishmael He gave Arabia and to Esau/Edom (possibly refers to Christianity) He gave Seir.
I don't know if there is any Biblical or Talmudic reference to who is allowed to also reside in Israel or if they are allowed to get rid of the righteous gentiles that already live there.
From a religious point of view, it's worth noting that many religious Jews at the time of the foundation of the Israeli state and even some today, consider the idea of reclaiming the land for Judaism to be a sin.
For them, God will call the Jews back to the land and refound them in it in His Time, not the time of Balfour and Ben Gurion.
If God was responsible for the dispersal of the Jews, then on this theory, those people living in the land afterward are there on His sufferance and should not be dispossessed by mere humans working on a human project, whether they are Jews or not.
From a religious point of view, it's worth noting that many religious Jews at the time of the foundation of the Israeli state and even some today, consider the idea of reclaiming the land for Judaism to be a sin.
For them, God will call the Jews back to the land and refound them in it in His Time, not the time of Balfour and Ben Gurion.
If God was responsible for the dispersal of the Jews, then on this theory, those people living in the land afterward are there on His sufferance and should not be dispossessed by mere humans working on a human project, whether they are Jews or not.
Yes there are Jewish people (like the Neutri Karta) that believe God will call them back to Israel at the allotted time. Then there are just as many who say that some of the signs have to already be in place for the Messianic era and that it is Gods hand already at work. And I'd say the majority fall into the later category.
Yes, woops! I meant the Talmud, not the Torah. Mono says the Torah doesn't include the Mishnah, but that Gemara and Talmud are identical...
They are synonymous Gemara is Aramaic and Talmud is Hebrew but they mean the same thing which is to study.
Okay, I think I found the answer.
I said that Talmud equals Gemara plus Mishna. Monotheism said, no, it was just the Gemara.
It seems that I am technically correct, but in common parlance, people often use it the way Monotheism said:
The Mishna and the rabbinic discussions (known as the Gemara) comprise the Talmud, although in Jewish life the terms Gemara and Talmud usually are used interchangeably.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/talmud_&_mishna.html
Nice when EVERYBODY turns out correct! :p
Yes there are Jewish people (like the Neutri Karta) that believe God will call them back to Israel at the allotted time. Then there are just as many who say that some of the signs have to already be in place for the Messianic era and that it is Gods hand already at work. And I'd say the majority fall into the later category.
I don't disagree with you, in fact I would say the number of Jews who go so far as to emrace the views and behavior of Neturei Karta is tiny.
But from what I can tell, the question revolved around the declaration of the State.
My reading is that Jews of all stripes were always in favor of Jews going to live in the Holy Land. The dispute was over the declaration of a Jewish state.
At the time of the foundation of the State of Israel--from what I can tell--a huge majority of religious Jews were against it, believing that it was blasphemous.
Now religious Jews have accommodated themselves to it, though most (including Mono) still consider the State itself to be irreligious and worthy of condemnation.
The question of whether it is time for Jews to return to the Holy Land is, I think, not in dispute. But the question of whether it is time for Jews to exercise exclusive sovereignty (especially through the expulsion of present-day inhabitants) there is a question that has developed different answers over the last few decades since Israel came into existence.
To oppose the State but the insist that Jews must exercise exclusive sovereignty today and to wish to USE that State to exercise the sovereignty seems to me contradictory. That seems to me the position of many Jews like Mono today.
Since it seems not only contradictory, but cruel and unkind in practice, I don't feel bad about questioning it. Or about pointing out that religious Jews have questioned it in the past and some still question it today.
The question of whether it is time for Jews to return to the Holy Land is, I think, not in dispute. But the question of whether it is time for Jews to exercise exclusive sovereignty (especially through the expulsion of present-day inhabitants) there is a question that has developed different answers over the last few decades since Israel came into existence.
To oppose the State but the insist that Jews must exercise exclusive sovereignty today and to wish to USE that State to exercise the sovereignty seems to me contradictory. That seems to me the position of many Jews like Mono today.
Since it seems not only contradictory, but cruel and unkind in practice, I don't feel bad about questioning it. Or about pointing out that religious Jews have questioned it in the past and some still question it today.
Ahhh now I understand :)
Ok I can see how it would be contradictory. Israel as it is now is governed (I think) by common law (and incompetence). But a true Israel would be, perhaps should be, governed by their already existing constitution, the Torah.
Hey guys, check these too:
LINK 1 (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34484)
LINK 2 (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34367)
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