View Full Version : The role of Paul of Tarsus in shaping Christians beliefs
The notion of Jesus as son of God is something that was established under the influence of Paul of Tarsus (originally named Saul), who had been an enemy of Jesus, but later changed course and joined the disciples after the departure of Jesus.
Later, however, he initiated a number of changes into early Christian teachings, in contradiction, for instance, to disciples like Barnabas, who believed in the Oneness of God and who had actually lived and met with Jesus.
Paul is considered by a number of Christian scholars to be the father of Christianity due to his additions of the following ideas:
that Jesus is the son of God,
the concept of Atonement,
the renunciation of the Law of the Torah.
Paul did these things in hopes of winning over the Gentiles (non-Jewish people). His letters are another of the primary sources of information on Jesus according to the Christian tradition.
The original followers of Prophet Jesus opposed these blatant misrepresentations of the message of Jesus. They struggled to reject the notion of the Divinity of Jesus for close to 200 years.
One person who was an original follower of Jesus was Barnabas. He was a Jew born in Cyrus and a successful preacher of the teachings of Jesus. Because of his closeness to Jesus, he was an important member of the small group of disciples in Jerusalem who had had gathered together following the disappearance of Jesus.
The question of Jesus's nature, origin and relationship with God was not raised amongst Barnabas and the small group of disciples. Jesus was considered a man miraculously endowed by God. Nothing in the words of Jesus or the events in his life led them to modify this view.
The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 CE Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism and opposed Paul for injecting into Christianity doctrines of the pagan Roman religion and Platonic philosophy. He quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. This indicates that the Gospel of Barnabas was in circulation in the first and second centuries of Christianity.
In 325 (CE), a council of Christian leaders met at Nicaea and made Paul's beliefs officially part of Christian doctrine. It also ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script which contradicted Paul's beliefs should be destroyed. An edict was issued that anyone in possession of these Gospels would be put to death.
The Gospel of Barnabas has miraculously survived though.
source (http://quraaniclessons.com/Jesus_in_the_Quran.asp)
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If Paul didn't made such additions, how would you imagine Christians today?
IceTea, would you please provide a source?
Zero independent scholars accept the Gospel of Barnabas as anything but a medieval forgery.
ALL ancient references to Christians from the earliest times tell us that Christians worshipped Jesus as "their God."
ALL the most ancient Christian writers from Ignatius of Antioch on refer to Jesus as "our God."
The Gospel of John, not Paul, opens with the declaration that Jesus is the Word of God and "the Word was with God and the Word was God."
The same kind of thinking that "deconstructs" Christianity also "deconstructs" Islam. The kinds of scholars who think this way also tell us that the Quran was originally written in Syrian and some of it isn't even in Arabic, that the verses are all out of order and mixed up, that Islam as we know it today is a forgery invented by the Meccan nobles who took over Mohammed's original Islam and perverted it to make money, etc., etc.
Okay, we can follow the rationalist scholars if you want (who also believe in homosexuality and free love and salvation for everyone in the world, btw.) But we have to let them do their work on the Quran and not just the Bible! And I don't think you'll liiiiiiiike it! ;)
The actual meaning of the word of God:
`Isa was a word from Allah that He bestowed on Maryam, meaning He created him with the word `Be' that He sent with Jibril to Maryam. Jibril blew the life of `Isa into Maryam by Allah's leave, and `Isa came to existence as a result. This incident was in place of the normal conception between man and woman that results in children. This is why `Isa was a word and a Ruh (spirit) created by Allah, as he had no father to conceive him. Rather, he came to existence through the word that Allah uttered, `Be,' and he was, through the life that Allah sent with Jibril
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16-03-07, 11:19 PM
IceTea, it's the meaning YOU AND I BELIEVE not what Jeff and other Christians would believe because (duh!) they're Christians and they don't believe in that Islamic interpretation.
I know that, but many Christians have no idea about the history and where the idea of believing Jesus is son of God came from. And also many of them don't know that Prophet Issa is a muslim.
It is not (possible) for any human being to whom Allâh has given the Book and Al-Hukm (the knowledge and understanding of the laws of religion) and Prophethood to say to the people: "Be my worshippers rather than Allâh's." On the contrary (he would say): "Be you Rabbaniyun (learned men of religion who practice what they know and also preach others), because you are teaching the Book, and you are studying it."
O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): "Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"
You have a point.
Where would the Christians be if it weren't for you constantly teaching us about our religion !
I heard of the gospel of barnabas before, actually there are many gospels that were rejected by the early church, it was said that even Mary Madgalene had written a gospel!
Now, back to the gospel of barnabas, who is barnabas? I read something about him in the current Bible but from what I read I concluded that he became a christian AFTER Christ passed away!
*gives the microphone to Jeff*
jeff I guess you can explain it better!
In the 22nd chapter of the Gospel of Barnabas it says:
“And this will continue until there comes Muhammad the Messenger of God who, when he comes, will expose this deceit to those who believe in the laws of God.”
we have to let them do their work on the Quran and not just the Bible! And I don't think you'll liiiiiiiike it! ;)
The Religion Sabla is no more than a stage to give your best shot at acting that you're liking what you're reading ... :angel:
^^
Eh? I don't get it... (scratches head)...
What I meant was, if you are going to try to use modern "historical methods" to analyze the Bible, you have to allow the same methods to analyze the Quran.
Or, if you think they are not good tools for the Quran, then you have to expect that others will see problems applying them to their books.
Modern textual analysis is useful, but it depends on a lot of guesswork and supposition. You can only get so much out of a text and most of what you get is just theories. Scholars decide that they like this theory or that one based on their pet ideas and what other scholars are saying.
So, my point is that ideas like "Paul invented his own Christianity because his letters were written much later and he had different ideas" is just a guesswork theory like "the Quran never mentions Mecca, just "Bakka" and the Muslims say Bakka is Mecca but it isn't. It's a valley in Palestine. This proves that the Meccans hijacked the original Islam and stole it so they could get pilgrimage money for Mecca."
Some non-Christians will like the first theory; some non-Muslims will like the second. Because...it helps "Our Team!"
As for me, I am suspicious of BOTH because the methodology is mostly guesswork and ignores other evidence that points in the other direction.
Ice Tea, Braiki, does that mean the Gospel of Barnabas is the actual Ingeel God send down to Issa(pbuh)? and can I get a link of it in English?
There is no record of the Gospel of Barnabas existing or being referred to by anyone--Christian, Muslim or other--in the first one thousand six hundred years of Christianity. It exists only in Spanish and Italian. :p
Just a forgery. Imagine someone coming up with a letter today saying its from Mohammed written in English and saying Christianity is true and the Quran is all messed up... :p
Funny? I agree. That's how seriously people should take the "Gospel of Barnabas."
^^ don't tell me that Ice Tea knows Italian and Spanish !!!
Ice tea quoted in English from the Gospel of Barnabas:
In the 22nd chapter of the Gospel of Barnabas it says:
“And this will continue until there comes Muhammad the Messenger of God who, when he comes, will expose this deceit to those who believe in the laws of God.”
Gasp !
Someone translated the 'Gospel' of Barnabas into English !
Run ! The sky is falling !
All I read about the Bible of Barnabas that came to existance during the confusion between muslims & christians, and the cover design was similar to the Quraan, which has only one conclusion, the Bible of Barnabas was made up by some muslims who had a good christian teaching or a christian who converted to Islam..
I'll try to get the cover picture ASAP
hmm looks like i was wrong, true that it speaks of prophet mohammed, but it describes him as the Messiah too :XD:
LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas)
^^
Now, see this is what I respect about Braiki.
Just because I am a Christian, I don't have to believe every argument for Christianity and against Islam, even the bad ones.
And vice versa.
Islam does not stand or fall by the Gospel of Barnabas.
^^ don't tell me that Ice Tea knows Italian and Spanish !!!
Ice tea quoted in English from the Gospel of Barnabas:
loool!
Very good, you got me! :p
What I meant of course was that the oldest manuscripts of the "Gospel of Barnabas" are in Italian or Spanish...there are no "originals" in Greek, Aramaic or any of the ancient languages...not even Latin! :p
true that Jeff, same goes to Christianity!
I noticed that both the bible of Barnabas & the Gospel of Judas agree on that Judah is the one that was slain instead of Jesus.. The Gospel of Judah was in the 2nd Century & was hidden until recently I believe?
^^
Braiki, I've never heard of the Gospel of Judah!
Most of these "hidden" Gospels are gnostic in character and were written late.
"Gnosticism" was a movement that diverged from Christianity in second century or so. It taught that the whole world was illusion and matter was evil and there was a special arcane knowledge that the "high" practitioners of the religion could get that would deliver them from the illusion of matter into the spirit world.
Islam, too, has had gnostic spinoffs. For example, the Druze and some would say the Alawites and also the Bahai.
If you read these manuscripts carefully, you will usually see that they are different in character not only from traditional Christianity, but from Islam as well.
But I'll see what I can find out about the Gospel of Judah.
Ohhhhhhhhh...
I just realized:
The Gospel of JUDAS!
Judas was the one who betrayed Christ to the authorities.
Judah is Hebrew but it's Judas in Greek, so that's how it appears in the New Testament...
The Gospel of Judas is a Gnostic gospel.
The document is not claimed to have been written by apostle Judas Iscariot himself, but rather by Gnostic followers of Jesus Christ.
...
The Gospel of Judas does not claim that the other disciples knew gnostic teachings. On the contrary, it asserts that the disciples have not learned the true Gospel, which Jesus taught only to Judas Iscariot
The document itself has been carbon-dated to approximately the 3rd–4th century AD, and its text is undeniably from no earlier than the 2nd century, as evidenced by its introduction and epilogue which assume the reader is familiar with the canonical Gospels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas
This is from Wikipedia and I don't think the points made in the article are disputed. You see, no one has disputed the page, which usually happens if it's controversial...
Here's what it says about the discovery, which appears to be a discovery, not a "hiding":
The content of the gospel had been unknown until a Coptic Gospel of Judas turned up on the antiquities "grey market," first seen under shady circumstances in a hotel room in Geneva in May 1983, when it was found among a mixed group of Greek and Coptic manuscripts offered to Stephen Emmel, a Yale Ph.D. candidate commissioned by Southern Methodist University to inspect the manuscripts. How this manuscript, Codex Tchacos, was found has not been clearly documented. However, it is believed that a now-deceased Egyptian antiquities prospector discovered the codex near El Minya, Egypt, in the neighbourhood of the village Beni Masar, and sold it to a Cairo antiquities dealer called Hanna.
hmm, I got these info from my christian friend :help: he probably misread thanx for clarifying tho! :D
Updated: MY BAD! i wrote Judah instead of Judas! lol that's how he is called in Arabic :XD:
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