View Full Version : One man take all mankind's sins!
How could one Man's death pay the penalty for the sins of all mankind? The Christains believe on it, but normally if we do mistakes we take responsibility for own mistakes.... I hope someone pays attenion to this post and I'll get back soon to read what has been written..
That is what makes it an attractive religon to some, but the truth is everyone will be responsible for his own sins. Otherwsie why the two angels are recording deeds (either good or bad) and why every one will receive his/her own book on the day of judgement?
That is what makes it an attractive religon to some, but the truth is everyone will be responsible for his own sins. Otherwsie why the two angels are recording deeds (either good or bad) and why every one will receive his/her own book on the day of judgement?
IceTea, that's what US muslims believe on. When a Christain goes to the Church on Sunday to pray how does this person feel? Do they feel any guilt or bad when they do mistakes? What's the main purpose from praying at the Church when I know that all of my sins are taken by another person? How do they see life and do they fear god?! I find this concept a bit confusing.
I note that muslims are not perfect, we all do mistakes at the end of the day.
I think they also go to a priest to confess their sins, and by doing that the priest will forgive their sins. This to me doesn't sound right because a priest is a human being, so how can he forgive another human sins. This concept contadicts with the logic.
In Islam there is no middle person, a muslim can straight ask God for forgivness and repent.
I think they also go to a priest to confess their sins, and by doing that the priest will forgive their sins. This to me doesn't sound right because a priest is a human being, so how can he forgive another human sins. This concept contadicts with the logic.
In Islam there is no middle person, a muslim can straight ask God for forgivness and repent.
:cute: Muslims are diffirent from Christains! Two diffirent religions means two diffirent practices... but you made good points there. Although, we can't expect them to be same as us cos that's what make them unique and diffirent from us.
Is Jeff some where around the house?
That is true but don't forget that Issa (son of Mariam) is a muslim too like us. :)
:cute: I sure do know that
I'll give it a try, but I think Jeff would explain it better...
For Christians, Jesus Christ (God's Son) came down to earth (in other words was born) and Submitted to his father's command, the sacrifice. Usually, for jews (and for muslims) they sacrifice a sheep/calf/etc so God forgives their sins. And the same thing happend in Jesus Christ's Case. God sent us his son and he sacrificed himself so that God forgives our sins or the sins of those who believe in him as the true Son of God.
According to christians, not ALL christians Go to heaven. Some go to hell as well. But those who confess to their priests have their sins forgiven by the authority that was given to the followers of Jesus Christ, from Jesus himself.
thats how christians look at it, I think. Jeff can explain it better and corrects me if I'm wrong :)
Haroundb
19-02-07, 03:41 PM
Sacrificing for God, is a sacrifice for people's good. This meat of goats of cows goes in the stomach of the poor. The other sacrifice is just a false attempt to give chance for people to make sins and don't feel bad about it sense it is "already" forgiven!
Yes Haroundb and I don't agree with that neither, but our sister here wants an explanation from a christian point of view and it's her right to know :D
Jeff! where are you!? where's superman when we need him :p ?
It's a deep question and I will try my best to explain. Braiki did a good job, though, I think.
Okay, Charm. First, you have to understand that just one MAN could not pay the price. If Jesus were only a Man, his sacrifice would not be satisfactory.
Man MUST atone for his own sins. But only GOD can do that satisfactorily. So, the One Who atones must be BOTH God AND Man.
But what about our responsibility? Does that mean it doesn't matter if we sin because Christ has already paid the price?
No. But in order to understand the answer, you need to understand the Christian understanding of sin.
The Christian belief is that God has nothing to do with sin. God didn't create Man to be sinful AT ALL. He created man to be perfectly obedient within his limitations. Sin isn't just an action that goes on the bad end of the scale. Sin is like poison or like a disease. Sin is like an UNNATURAL disease that infects all mankind since Adam. And it WEAKENS us, so that we cannot escape from it on our own. It's a CONDITION of sin that men live in. And we call this Original Sin.
How to escape from the poison? How to be cured of the disease? That's what Christ's coming and His saving Death and Resurrection answer. How can I, how can humanity, escape from this Darkness? My own sins are only the RESULT of this. YES, they are my responsibility. But I cannot stop sinning on my own. "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God."
Christ comes and does what a truly righteous Man would do. He can do it because He is God. He follows His Father's commands to the end with perfect obdience.
Sin is a condition of evil. And evil hates God. Evil is a rebellion against God. Every time you sin, you are really acting as if God didn't exist. As if you WANTED Him not to exist. As if YOU wanted to be God! Like Satan, what we really have in our hearts is the desire to destroy God and take His place.
Let me ask you this: What would a truly evil man do if he could get his hands on God? Okay, impossible, I agree. But what would that man LIKE to do with God if he could? Wouldn't he want to destroy Him? To kill Him? To erase Him from reality?
And how does an evil man react to goodness and justice? Doesn't it make him resentful and angry? The TRULY good or just man--if he were here among us--what would we do to Him? Out of anger, out of jealousy, out of fear, out of a million reasons that we would try to defend ourselves about in ridiculous ways? The answer is the answer of the Crucifixion: We would kill Him. He would draw all our evil impulses out of us--out of mankind as a whole.
But the secret of the Crucifixion is that in being the Just Man and delivering Himself over to sinners, Christ becomes the focus for sin--for ALL sin, from EVERY time. He is the wish-fulfillment. All of the sin of the world--whether we are aware of it or not--is focussed on this action, this point in time. The sin of the world flows toward that Cross like metal fragments flow to a magnet. And Christ absorbs them like a sponge.
The sickness of sin is absorbed and defeated by this perfect life of goodness amid sin and by its ending. All for us. The Forgiveness of Sin means the Deliverance from the poison. It has somewhere to go now, a way OUT. The way out for the poison is that Man on that Cross.
A Christian becomes JOINED with Christ and His action on the Cross. We live with HIS life now and not just our own. All of our actions--our sins and good deeds--are spiritually connected with Him.
But that doesn't mean that we can sin, for heaven's sake! It means that we have to meditate on the terrible price that had to be paid for every little sin. The price is the nails in the hands of the God who came to save us.
No, our job is become HOLY, to become PERFECT. Christians don't think we can sin and get off scot free. Christians think if we live to try to aim for 50.1%, we will get 0%! No, we have to aim for 100%, and be sorry every time we fall short. And try to get up again and aim for 100% again. But we know that our story is His Story and even when we struggle, we are doing it with His Love and Support.
Like all Love and like all Sin and like all things human, this is the logic of a STORY, not of 2+2=4. It's the same kind of logic that can answer a question like, "Why do you love me?" or "Can you ever forgive me?" or "Why is music beautiful?" We can understand some of it, but it's too huge and too meaningful to understand all of it.
That's why it's a Mystery. The Saving Mystery of the Cross...which is still being worked out in the life of every person and in the history of the world.
Of course, it's not just the Death that saves us, but the DEFEAT of that Death. Death cannot hold such a one, because Sin has no ultimate power over Him. He defeats and destroys sin and death and that defeat is manifested in the Resurrection. This is why our Day of Days is Easter, not Good Friday.
Beautiful Jeff.
Thanks for sharing that. :)
Even that I also don't agree on this ! and somehow doesn't make sense really !
But it is good information to know about Christian belief
Thanks Jeff, Man MUST atone for his own sins. But only GOD can do that satisfactorily. So, the One Who atones must be BOTH God AND Man.
I was taught that Jesus was a Prophet and that Christains who followed him at the start of his journey were believing on him as god's Prophet.
Does it mean that on a Christain eye Jesues was never a Prophet but a God that came down to take people's sins?!
no problem, According to some (if not all) Christians, Jesus Christ is the Messiah, a king, a prophet, The Son of God & God. That's more like it, I think!
Thanks Jeff, Man MUST atone for his own sins. But only GOD can do that satisfactorily. So, the One Who atones must be BOTH God AND Man.
I was taught that Jesus was a Prophet and that Christains who followed him at the start of his journey were believing on him as god's Prophet.
Does it mean that on a Christain eye Jesues was never a Prophet but a God that came down to take people's sins?!
Well, I don't want to turn it into an argument thread; that will spoil your idea, I think! :)
We believe that Christ was a Prophet indeed. In fact, the perfection of Prophecy! "Priest, Prophet, and King," the Bible calls Him.
But we also believe that Christ was much more than this: that He was God Who took flesh and became a Man like us. There are passages in the Bible that say so and our very earliest writers from the time of the Apostles say so also. And pagans who reported on what the earliest Christians believed say so.
This is the teaching of Catholics, Orthodox, and the traditional teaching of about 99% of Protestants and of all the major Protestant sects today--the overwhelming majority of Christians both now and in history. Most Christians would say: if you think Jesus is not God but only a Man, you are not a Christian.
Of course, in history you can always make arguments and the Muslims and others have arguments to make. But our belief and teaching--since that's what you are asking about I think--is that Christ is God Who became Truly Man, Who became one of us. This is called "the Incarnation", the "taking of flesh" by God. And we also believe and teach that this is the constant teaching of Christians from the beginning.
But I won't go further, because if I do, it will be less educational and more argumentative! And I want to respect the purpose of your thread.
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