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Spreading hatred is not what God wants but the pastor of this church thinks otherwise
Westboro Baptist Church
What is this church ?
Who are it's members ?
How many members are there ?
Have they been prosecuted and condemned for hate crimes ?
Take the time, I am sure you can find all the answers yourself.
What is this church ?
A church that is preaching hatred with quotes from the Bible
Who are it's members ?
I am willing to find out too
How many members are there ?
Numbers don't matter as long as they exist
Have they been prosecuted and condemned for hate crimes ?
I am sure they have been condemned, but they claim to be preaching the teachings of Jesus & the Bible
------------------------------------------
Do you condemn them?
Do you think they are preaching the Bible or they are misinterpretating the verses & twisting them to match their objectives?
HITMAN thanks a lot for sharing. I think its a shame to find such people. I am shocked to see these people co-existing with educated people!
As for who condemns them or not, I don't think some people will. You see, its difficult to accept the TRUTH!
:hyper: :hyper:
These guys are anti-everything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church
And here is a site that is taking the p*ss of this so called "church"'s website.
http://www.godhatesfigs.com/index2.html
HITMAN thanks a lot for sharing. I think its a shame to find such people. I am shocked to see these people co-existing with educated people!
As for who condemns them or not, I don't think some people will. You see, its difficult to accept the TRUTH!
What's there that ain't true? These guys are crazy. Fact.
They are anything BUT preaching from the bible. If you think a little about it, since Islam, or the Qu'ran is a continuation of the Bible (which is a continuation of the Torah), ask yourself this:
If they are preaching from the Bible, what does that make the Qu'ran?
Of course I condemn them. I have absolutely no problem condemning them. They're raving mad. They're even against the Pope. LOL
Ben_Dover
22-01-07, 12:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGKx2pTBQc
This is how Americans treat these Westboro losers.
Numbers don't matter as long as they exist
NOW you tell us! :hmm:
http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showpost.php?p=814061&postcount=32
:hyper:
lol! the funniest thing I ever read "God Hates You" :XD:
Hate can be found anywhere, if you want to, I think fengy said this before, all religions are like sharp knives, effecient when used/applied properly, but a knife in a lunatic's hands can be turned to a horrible weapon.
also, lunatics can be found anywhere! and nothing makes a man sound "so right" than a couple of misunderstood verses from the holy book he follows!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGKx2pTBQc
This is how Americans treat these Westboro losers.
you mean...
this
or the Qu'ran is a continuation of the Bible (which is a continuation of the Torah), ask yourself this:
Of course I condemn them. I have absolutely no problem condemning them. They're raving mad. They're even against the Pope. LOL
but how is th Qur'an a continuation of the Bibles? And if u believe it is, why are u not a Muslim? :mmhmm:
I never said they are preaching the bible because I know enough about Bible so don't assume as you usually do. And I am glad you condemn them.
Welcome to the group :yes:
Sting, I didn't say YOU said so, did I? It was a general question that anyone was free to answer.
As for the bible and koran continuation thing, I read it here. More than once. And the question was directed to you and other muslims. Not to myself. So whether or not it is what I actually believe makes no difference.
As for "assuming", this makes interesting reading.
As for who condemns them or not, I don't think some people will. You see, its difficult to accept the TRUTH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGKx2pTBQc
This is how Americans treat these Westboro losers.
Thats good to know man. I hope all Americans and Christians in general condemn these people and attempt to enlighten them. I am shocked to see so many followers though!
Phelps, his daughter and his followers are freaks.
This is how I found out about them (its satirical):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iXbWsO4ik
I am shocked to see so many followers though!
:omg: How many are they then?
Bet you didn't know that 80% of all the "followers" are the Phelps family itself? :hyper:
Shocking. Truly.
When you consider that they aren't allowed to marry out of the 'cult', there must be a helluva lot of inbreeding.
Westboro Baptist Church is a U.S. religious organization headed by Fred Phelps and based in Topeka, Kansas. It runs the website GodHatesFags.com[1], and GodHatesAmerica.com, and other websites expressing condemnation of homosexuals, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Jews and other groups. The organization is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League, and classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
The group has achieved national notoriety in recent years due to their picketing of funeral processions for soldiers killed in combat, which functions as an extension of the Phelps' anti-United States beliefs.
While its members identify themselves as Baptists, the church is an independent Baptist church not affiliated with any known Baptist conventions or associations. The church describes itself as following Primitive Baptist and Calvinist principles.
Sky News claims that WBC consists of "about 150 members.
ergo.
This is not a Christian church.
It is not a large group (although 150 is obviously 'shocking' to some people)
It has been classified as a hate group.
It is a desperate attempt to divert attention from the real hatred which is being preached in religious institutions in the UK, which a recent documentary exposed.
PS : just noticed that Fengy had already done the honors.
Off topic were deleted.
Try to keep the discussion within the topic.
Any further off topic will be deleted.
So I see that we all condemn this group of Christians. I am glad. Although its weird to say that 80% of them belong to one family but then again who knows maybe these Americans do have a huge family!
Good day all :)
So I see that we all condemn this group of Christians. I am glad. Although its weird to say that 80% of them belong to one family but then again who knows maybe these Americans do have a huge family!
Good day all :)
LOL @ Christians.
You haven't been paying much attention. They are anti-christian, remember?
This is no religion. This is a cult.
If you think a little about it, since Islam, or the Qu'ran is a continuation of the Bible (which is a continuation of the Torah), ask yourself this:
You are right all God prophets came to spread the true faith of Islam, the difference is that prophet Mohammed pbuh sent as a mercy to ALL mankind.
Say (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) "I am not a new thing among the Messengers (of Allâh) (i.e. I am not the first Messenger) nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am but a plain warner."
And We have sent you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) not but as a mercy for the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists).
As for the Quran:
And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) the Book (this Qur'ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge among them by what Allâh has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allâh had willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so compete in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allâh; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.
You are right all God prophets came to spread the true faith of Islam, the difference is that prophet Mohammed pbuh sent as a mercy to ALL mankind.
Say (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) "I am not a new thing among the Messengers (of Allâh) (i.e. I am not the first Messenger) nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am but a plain warner."
And We have sent you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) not but as a mercy for the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists).
As for the Quran:
And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) the Book (this Qur'ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge among them by what Allâh has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allâh had willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so compete in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allâh; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was sure I read it in the sabla.
So I wasn't wrong when I said that (according to muslims) Islam is a continuation of the religions that came before it (given that there are a few differences), right?
Well all prophets were muslims, even Jesus pbuh.
So whatever stated in the Quran is the truth because as mentioned in above verse that the Quran is Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). That means anything contradicts with the Quran can't be true.
Although its weird to say that 80% of them belong to one family but then again who knows maybe these Americans do have a huge family!
Hey, why take my word for it. :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMP3AK5jwo
Jump to 4.50 minutes if you don't wanna see it all. :)
Well all prophets were muslims, even Jesus pbuh.
So whatever stated in the Quran is the truth because as mentioned in above verse that the Quran is Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). That means anything contradicts with the Quran can't be true.
So, if these people are quoting the bible's old testament (which is almost identical to the koran afaik), claiming that God hated the Egyptians because he sent them the plagues and locusts.. etc and He killed one male child in every family.. isn't that as offensive to you as it is to us? Claiming that God hates?
Humanity's father.. how can He hate? What father hates his children? All parents punish their children in different ways. I don't think it means they hate their kids.
That was the reason behind my quote about Islam being the continuation of other religions..
If to Christians and Jews, these people are the epitome of madness, then I expect they are the same to Muslims, because they are 'raping' much of the 'common' scripture to cover their own sadistic hate for everything and everyone.
I don't think you want to read what they said about Prophet Mohammed either...
Who killed one male child in every family?
Good points there IceTea. Keep it up :)
I am getting confused now, how come they are not Christians?
Aren't they preaching using verses from the Bible to back up their claims?
Yes they are HITMAN don't be confused.
Who killed one male child in every family?
When Moses said to the pharoah that God commanded that he release his people and if he didn't, his first born son, and a son from every family, would die that night.
I'm not sure if Islam teaches this.. but I would imagine it does.
I am getting confused now, how come they are not Christians?
Aren't they preaching using verses from the Bible to back up their claims?
So, if I suddenly got hold of the Kuran, and made my own "religion", taking bits and pieces and putting them together to create my own version.. would that mean that my organisation would be Muslim? Simply because I use excerpts from the Koran to back my crazy ideals?
Come on. I'm sure you're cleverer than that.
Try again. :)
now I'm confused too, so these people are non-believers ? or just a new christian section ?
They claim to be baptists, but they have nothing to do and they are nothing like any other baptist church.
In reality, they are a hate group, who hide behind scripture. The KKK was similar. They would say that GOD didn't want the whites and blacks to mix and they would use passages from the bible to prove it. Where they a christian movement? I don't think so.
The westboro baptists say that it's not true that God is ever forgiving. He simply does not forgive homosexuality. As in, it's an irreversable sin.
They say that God hated many people. Christianity says the opposite.
Don't be confused Braiki, it's only your first day on the job ! :D
Fengs explained it perfectly.
Westboro Baptist Church hates every one equally. They hate homosexuals, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Jews and other groups - usually a good indicator that something is not quite correct.
lol wudjab true that :p
thanx for explaining Fengy :)
So, if I suddenly got hold of the Kuran, and made my own "religion", taking bits and pieces and putting them together to create my own version.. would that mean that my organisation would be Muslim? Simply because I use excerpts from the Koran to back my crazy ideals?
Come on. I'm sure you're cleverer than that.
Try again. :)
Isn't that what extremist terrorist do as well? And people can't wait to jump at the chance to refer to them as Muslims.
Lets keep score :
People killed by Fred Phelps in the name of Christianity - 0.
People killed by terrorists in the name of Islam : LOTS
^ True the extent is different, but the fundamental concept is the same. They're using a perfectly harmless book and propagating hatred through it when it was not meant to be used in that way.
Agreed, but there is a huge difference between propagating a philosophy and actually acting on on the same.
^ True the extent is different, but the fundamental concept is the same. They're using a perfectly harmless book and propagating hatred through it when it was not meant to be used in that way.
Neither book is harmless, lym. There are some pretty strong verses in every religious book. It depends on how much you read into them. It's how one interprets the message and how they act on it.
One says Jihad is an inner struggle, one says it's war on infidel.
These sickos say God killed all mankind when he commanded Noah to build the ark, so God hates everyone.
These sickos say God killed all mankind when he commanded Noah to build the ark, so God hates everyone.
hehe fengy if they read the bible more, it's written that God regretted after what's done to Noah's people.
As we all said before, taking few texts from here and there from any holy book will result in a big misunderstanding and 180 degrees flips of the meaning
Isn't there a debate or something for one of these people against any well educated christian? I think they won't stand a chance againt a protestant since they focus more on the verses of the Bible!
My personal opinion is that only a fool will participate in a debate about his religion.
A debate will mean that at the end, one side will win and the other will lose.
If I am confident about my faith, it is completely beyond debate.
you are not debating for yourself, you'd be debating for your people. and it will be over a book that both of you and the other side consider as holy. Plus that it will prove that these people are misquoting the Bible.
However, I believe that a debate is good for such situations especially when you see in the videos how mad some christians at those anti-christians. It will calm down both sides
but I agree with you, if you were right and you still lost the debate, it will be a big problem :os
you are not debating for yourself, you'd be debating for your people. and it will be over a book that both of you and the other side consider as holy. Plus that it will prove that these people are misquoting the Bible.
However, I believe that a debate is good for such situations especially when you see in the videos how mad some christians at those anti-christians. It will calm down both sides
but I agree with you, if you were right and you still lost the debate, it will be a big problem :os
Have you seen these people debating? They are incapable of debate. Seriously.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGB78yp5O2s&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x176aI15Y_0&mode=related&search=
When Moses said to the pharoah that God commanded that he release his people and if he didn't, his first born son, and a son from every family, would die that night.
I'm not sure if Islam teaches this.. but I would imagine it does.
I hope you go through below link to read the story of prophet Musa (Moses) pbuh in details, you will learn alot.
story of prophet Musa A.S (http://boltwolf.tripod.com/id103.html)
Jihad4Truth
23-01-07, 07:15 PM
now I'm confused too, so these people are non-believers ? or just a new christian section ?
THEY just started their own church on their own. anybody can do that.
Jihad4Truth
23-01-07, 07:39 PM
Isn't that what extremist terrorist do as well? And people can't wait to jump at the chance to refer to them as Muslims.
It is because for decades, all that most people in the west saw from the Middle East was extremists shouting extremist views and terrorists highjacking planes and blowing things up.
Yet the peaceful majority remained silent and invisible.
So only the extremist/terrorist message got through.
I hope you go through below link to read the story of prophet Musa (Moses) pbuh in details, you will learn alot.
story of prophet Musa A.S (http://boltwolf.tripod.com/id103.html)
You didn't answer my question, but just incase you think I;m dreaming all this up, please, be my guest.
http://www.bible.ort.org/books/pentd2.asp?ACTION=displaypage&BOOK=2&CHAPTER=11
Death of the First-Born
11:4 Moses said [to Pharaoh] in God's name, 'Around midnight, I will go out in the midst of Egypt.
11:5 Every first-born in Egypt will die, from the first-born of Pharaoh sitting on his throne, to the first-born of the slave girl behind the millstones. Every first-born animal [will also die].
11:6 'There will be a great cry of anguish throughout all Egypt. Never before has there been anything like it, and never again will there be the like.
11:7 But among the Israelites, a dog will not even whine because of man or beast. You will then realize that God is making a miraculous distinction between Egypt and Israel.
Now, this church is interpreting that as God hated the Egyptians. Hated.
that is rediculous! so who is not hated, according to them ? :os
Everyone except the 80 or so members of the 'church'.
My personal opinion is that only a fool will participate in a debate about his religion.
A debate will mean that at the end, one side will win and the other will lose.
If I am confident about my faith, it is completely beyond debate.
Well, let a fool chime in then...
I think there is something in that...if you debate about your faith as if it were open to question like scientific principles are open to question then you are showing a lack of faith. And the style of debate can sometimes do a disservice to both sides.
But some of the greatest Saints and Doctors of the Church are famous for debating every aspect of religious truth. Our greatest classical teacher of theology is St. Thomas Aquinas and he spent his life debating and writing theology in the style of debate. There is a whole branch of Catholic writing called "Apologetics" which is theology written to answer questions that come up in dispute.
We have reasonable minds; God made us that way. Just because people question us doesn't mean that they are in bad faith. We have to have answers. God cannot be called to account, but the Bible says, "Never be afraid to give an account of the Faith that is in you." If we do not do this, why should people believe us? Or even respect us?
So, debate for me means the opportunity to try to allow God's light of Truth to shine forth. That means trying to get out of the dynamic of "defeating" the other side or being afraid that they might "defeat" me. My debating partner is not my enemy, he is my beloved friend. I try to kill any pride that is in me, get out of God's way and let people see directly, as best I can with my sinful nature, "the Faith that is in me."
If saints as great as Thomas Aquinas, Thomas More and Robert Bellarmine can do it, then surely it must be okay to do.
And if only fools would debate their religion in any sense of the word, why do you treat Muslims like fools, Wudjab? If they follow your advice, they will not answer any of your challenges! No, I think turn about is fair play. If you expect them to answer your challenges, you must try to answer theirs, too.
Pope Benedict just finished the first volume of a private book on Jesus. He told everyone that this is not a document from the Pope, but just a book by the man Joseph Ratzinger, who just happens to be Pope, and we are not expected to accept what it says. But he said, "All I ask is that people read it with sympathy, without which there can be no true understanding."
If Muslims and Christians debate in sympathy and charity, striving for understanding, then both of us will benefit. But without sympathy, there will be no understanding, as the Pope reminds us.
As usual you caught the wrong end of the stick.
When I say 'only fools participate in debates about their religions' I was referring to the previous comment from Braiki. Since you missed it, I will graciously repost it for you "Isn't there a debate or something for one of these people against any well educated christian? I think they won't stand a chance againt a protestant since they focus more on the verses of the Bible!".
I was referring to debates of the kind that Swaggart, and Deedat and Phelps participate in.
Sometimes when you try to please too much these things might slip your attention.
As usual you caught the wrong end of the stick.
When I say 'only fools participate in debates about their religions' I was referring to the previous comment from Braiki. Since you missed it, I will graciously repost it for you "Isn't there a debate or something for one of these people against any well educated christian? I think they won't stand a chance againt a protestant since they focus more on the verses of the Bible!".
I was referring to debates of the kind that Swaggart, and Deedat and Phelps participate in.
Sometimes when you try to please too much these things might slip your attention.
Yes, I know you're fond of using sticks in these debates...WHAP! WHAP! I prefer to just chat.
But it IS nice that you decided to say what you actually meant the second time around! Only fools decide to participate in debates with folks like Deedat? Why is that? Because they might lose?
Well, then the impression is left that Christians can't defend their religion...not true at all and not the impression I'd like to leave.
Anyway, Deedat provoked a whole culture of debate between Christians and Muslims which involves some silly people but also has some excellent results from a Christian point of view. Muslims are reading the Bible with care...that's one. And Muslims are treating Christianity and Islam as subjects for debate and discussion, rather than just teaching...that's another.
After all, that's what we want, right? Reciprocity? A "free market" in religion in which Christianity and Islam are both tolerated and everyone is free to seek converts without fear? Deedat can help persuade Muslims that they have nothing to fear from such an arrangement.
I really liked the point you made about confidence in one's religion; that part I don't disagree with at all. And St. Paul expresses that confidence in his letter to the Romans: We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.
Our Christian principle of confidence is that we need have no fear whatsoever because all these battles were decided two thousand years ago. If we win, we win. If we lose, we win. If we approach debate with a religious spirit, we cannot lose no matter what the outcome of that particular debate.
You didn't answer my question,
That means you didn't read the story in the provided link. Try again! :rolleyes:
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