A question about the Jewish Orthodox

[Angel_Eyes]

Ok i had this question for a while now..i was wondering about the Jewish Orthodox people...or the jews in general....why do the men have those curls from the side of their heads? what do they symbolize? Is it like as it says in Islam, that the men shouldnt shave their beards?? And why do they pray to a wall???

answers........?

[UmKhalid]

From what I've heard:The wall is part of a temple(Don't know what the Jews call their house of prayer) ... and the wall is the only thing left from it...

Another thing I've heard is that it was part of Solomon's palace ...

Something interesting I found online:


In a book entitles "To Pray as a Jew" I found a lengthy explanation of the Prayers as done by the ancient Jews and few of the contemporary Jews. In this book the author put diagrams showing the movement and positions during the prayer. One look at these illustrations is enough for the Muslims to realize the similarity of the prayers of the Jews then and Salat as practiced by the Muslims.

http://www.submission.org/jews-2.jpg

In his comment about these positions the author wrote : "In most contemporary congregations very few people keep to the tradition of falling prostrate. Sometimes it is only the Prayer leader and the rabbi who does so. In more traditional congregations, however, some worshipers, men and women, will join the Prayer Leader and rabbi in the act of prostrating themselves. In Israeli synagogues, the practice is more widespread than in synagogues elsewhere. Since this is a position that we are unaccustomed to, one who has never done this before might very well demur. But once accomplished, the experience provides such a spiritual uplift that one looks forward to repeating it. Those willing to try this ancient ritual form on the rare occasions that call for it might welcome the following diagrams of the correct procedure"



Source (http://www.submission.org/jews.html)

[Jeff]

The side curls are not worn by all Orthodox Jews but only by the Hasidim, who are a group of orthodox Jews that are known for emotional--rather than dry worship--and who often have special "rebbes" to guide them. They also wear remarkable clothes with a lot of fur, based on Eastern European models.

http://img.search.com/1/17/300px-Hasidim.jpg

The side curls are based on a verse from the Book of Leviticus in the Bible which says you shouldn't clip the hair at your temples or trim your beard.

We have a member who is a Hasid... I wish he'd post his picture sometime! :)

****

The Jews mourn and pray at the so called "Wailing Wall" in Jerusalem.

You know the Haram esh-Sharif, right? Well, before the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque, there was a church there. And before the church, there was the Jewish Temple, right on top of the mountain.

This was the Jews' one and only Temple and animals used to be sacrificed there. Originally, that was where the ark which contained the Tablets of the Law given by God to Moses was kept.

The Temple was destroyed by the Romans in the first years of our calendar and not rebuilt.

BUT...one piece remained.

In order to keep the side of the mountain that the Temple was built on from collapsing, something called a "retaining wall" had been built with huge blocks of stone to keep the dirt and rock from sliding down and causing the Temple to collapse too. Obviously, the "retaining wall" was never destroyed or else the mountain would have collapsed.

Jews come and mourn the destruction of the Temple by praying against the last piece of it that survives and writing prayers on slips of paper and inserting them in this wall.

You can see how the wall holds up the side of the mountain that the Haram ash-Sharif is built on here:

http://www.atpm.com/7.09/israel/images/western-wailing-wall-420.jpg

Here is a model of what the one and only Jewish Temple is thought to have looked like two thousand years ago:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/TempleJerusalem.jpg

[Storm]

This is really interesting information jeff, thanks alot :)

[Phat]

Intresting :)

[Jeff]

Interesting?

Okay, here's more!

Remember, I said that the Ark of the Covenant (a sort of wooden box), which was kept in the original Temple, used to contain the Tablets of the Law given to Moses by God?

The Ark of the Covenant was kept from the time of Moses to the time of David in a tent which moved from place to place. But Solomon built the Temple as a permanent home for it, under direction from God.

Well, there was a place in the Temple where that Ark was kept. It was screened off by a curtain and it was called the "Holy of Holies." Only the Chief Priest could enter the Holy of Holies and only once a year.

The First Temple was destroyed in 586 BC by the Babylonians and almost all the Jews were carried off as slaves to Iraq. When they returned in 515 BC, they rebuilt the (First Verison of the Second) Temple under the leadership of Ezra. But they no longer had the Ark of the Covenant. Whether hidden or destroyed, it has never reappeared.

In the final war of the occupying Romans against the Jews, the general of the Roman army invaded the (Second Version of the Second) Temple and dared to enter the Holy of Holies! He wanted to see what marvellous thing would be kept in such a sacred spot. He was absolutely astounded when he pulled back the Curtain and saw what the Jews kept in the Holy of Holies: Nothing at all! Absolutely empty.

Today, most orthodox Jews will not go up on the Temple Mount. They are afraid that by accident they will stand where the Holy of Holies stood...no one knows exactly where it was...the spot where only the Chief Priest is allowed to go once a year.

The Ark of the Covenant being Carried into the Temple
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Folio_29r_-_The_Ark_of_God_Carried_into_the_Temple.jpg/350px-Folio_29r_-_The_Ark_of_God_Carried_into_the_Temple.jpg

[BrAiKi]

intesresting information, I always admired the judaism!
thanx AE, Bogus and Jeff :)

[Rossonero]

Interesting information indeed, thanks for providing the info

[Angel_Eyes]

Aha now i understand..now they dont seem so weird to me..

[Storm]

Indeed valid info jeff :)

Kindly provide us the link for this ( for more info and reading)

[Jeff]

I wrote both pieces myself, Storm, honest! from my own knowledge.

[darkone]

thx for the info about the Jewish ..i alwayes wanted to know the reasone of the curls from the side of their heads!

[Jeff]

Yes, one of the saddest things about the Twentieth Century is the heating up of the irritations between Jews and Muslims. In so many ways, they seem like natural allies and friends...

[UmKhalid]

Wow, great information Jeff Masha'Allah ...

So it has nothing to do with Solomon's palace? ... if you have any information about about Solomon, if he was ever mentioned in the Torah , I'd very much appreciate it.

[BrAiKi]

solomon is not mentioned in the Torah because the Torah was written before the time of Solomon. in the old testament of the bible (aka the tanakh according to jews) Prophet Solomon is mentioned. I think the book of proverbs is refered to Prophet and King Solomon and i think prophet solomon was mentioned many times in the book of samuel, you can google it, but if Jeff provides the exact verses we all would appreciate it

[Jeff]

Sure, Bogus, the First Temple was built by Solomon, so it has to do with him! But his palace and the Temple were two different buildings.

But for Christians--and I think Jews too--he is not considered a Prophet. One of the very interesting small things about the differences in our religions is this point: there are many great historical figures that you class as Prophets and we do not. Abraham, Samson, David, and Solomon are examples. We agree, though, that Moses was a Prophet.

Solomon was a paragon of wisdom; one of the wisest men who ever lived. But the Bible says he abandoned his wisdom toward the end of his life and lived an incredibly terrible life. And after his death, the Kingdom split into two: Israel in the north and Judah in the south.

The Temple was in Jerusalem, which is in Judah not Israel. The northerners did not accept Temple worship at all. Their greatest city was Samaria (near the Palestinian city of Nablus--the old town of Samaria was abandoned two thousand years ago and they built a new city: New City = Nea-polis in Greek. Neapolis = Nablus. See?) and they were known by their religion as "Samaritans". One of Jesus' most beautiful stories is known as "the Good Samaritan."

There are still Samaritans today near Nablus where they have always lived--about 700 survive. Here is a picture of one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Shomroni_tora1.jpg

The southerners around Jerusalem and the Temple came religiously to be known as "Jews" from the name "Judah".

The First Book of Kings--

http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/1kings/1kings1.htm

--contains most of the best known stories about Solomon. The Song of Songs (which comes up in "Pornography and the Bible" discussions! :p )--

http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/songs/song1.htm

--and much of the Proverbs--

http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/proverbs/proverb1.htm

are said to have been written by him.

[monotheism]

Jews do not pray TO the western wall, we pray at it. We also pray in that direction wherever we live in the world, and we have done so for the past 2,000 since the Romans destroyed it, because the Torah teaches that the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is the holiest place in the universe.

I'm not sure if it was clarified, but there were two Temples in Jerusalem. The 1st was built by Solomon and destroyed by the Babylonians (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Temple ). The 2nd was built over a period of time (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple ) and destroyed by the Romans. See

Yes, I am a Hasidic Jew. Not all, but many Hasidic Jews wear long sidelocks. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyot for the full explanation.

The information in the post above about Jews prostrating is false, AFAIK. No Jew prostrates at any time other than Yom Kippur, until the Moshiach comes.

Feel free to ask any other questions that you may have.

[UmKhalid]

Jews do not pray TO the western wall, we pray at it. We also pray in that direction wherever we live in the world

Just wanted to add that as Muslims, we are taught that all "People of the Book - Christians and Jews" pray facing Jerusalm (Masjid Al Aqsa), and at the beginning of the Prophet's message, the Muslims used to pray facing the same place, as to us too, it is the most sacred building after Ka'aba.

[Solafa]

Sallam,

Indeed some informative posts in here.

It happens that i knew some of what it had posted in here from a lady i met about 7 years ago and she was Jewish but originaly a palestinian with muslim relatives and her parents generation converted to Jew by force. But then she told me some of the above information as part of knowledge, which amazed with!:yes:

==============

I see it a typical thing that happens between people when it comes to religion, although it is a pity but its true that they overlook the similarities and between religions and they pin point at the differences and cause conflicts.

People in the past used to live in peace and harmoney, though they were some wars that occurd but the majority of the years were peacful and they were to interact with no differences.


May Allah [swt] make peace action to happen soon and for us to witness it with love spreading within the nations in this world.

[Jeff]

People in the past used to live in peace and harmoney, though they were some wars that occurd but the majority of the years were peacful and they were to interact with no differences.


May Allah [swt] make peace action to happen soon and for us to witness it with love spreading within the nations in this world.


I agree with the last part!

But the first part, I don't agree with. I've read a lot of history and I don't see that there has been more peace in the world before today...probably less.

[monotheism]

Solafa, what you say that someone was converted to Judaism by force doesn't make sense. Maybe you heard the story wrong. In fact, not only is it strictly forbidden in Jewish law to force a conversion, but one is obligated to discourage a potential convert from converting, and explain to them the difficulties involved in living as a Jew, and we only convert them when they agree to convert regardless.

[clouds]

Yes, one of the saddest things about the Twentieth Century is the heating up of the irritations between Jews and Muslims. In so many ways, they seem like natural allies and friends...

yes it's sad, but still we, Arabs will not make peace with the Jews unless they get the hell out of our occupied Palestine and go back where they came from except for the original Jews who lived in Palestine with the Palestinians in peace for hundreds of years.

We Arabs(Muslims and Christians) have all the right to fight the Israelis and drive them out of our land, and soon this will happen inshallah when all Arab nations unite and push the Jews off out of Palestine.

[wudjab]

And the cow jumped over the moon.

also know as 'when pigs fly'.

[Jeff]

yes it's sad, but still we, Arabs will not make peace with the Jews unless they get the hell out of our occupied Palestine and go back where they came from except for the original Jews who lived in Palestine with the Palestinians in peace for hundreds of years.

We Arabs(Muslims and Christians) have all the right to fight the Israelis and drive them out of our land, and soon this will happen inshallah when all Arab nations unite and push the Jews off out of Palestine.

I think, in the end, you will make peace on the basis of compromise and mutual respect. As you should.

[monotheism]

Since G-d is the source of peace, people will make peace and receive blessing by following the Word of G-d Who gave the entire Holy Land to the Jewish people as an eternal gift in the Hebrew Scripture.

[Jeff]

^^

And yet as you know, the land allotted to Manasseh, Reuben, Asher and Naphtali is populated by the Arabs of Jordan and Lebanon and there is no attempt to seize it by force.

There is no reason why other lands included in God's grant of land to the Jews must absolutely be seized and held without regard to the wishes of the inhabitants, is there?

[clouds]

Since G-d is the source of peace, people will make peace and receive blessing by following the Word of G-d Who gave the entire Holy Land to the Jewish people as an eternal gift in the Hebrew Scripture.

God also said not to take what's not yours. Palestinians lived in Palestine for hundreds of years in fact since the seventh century and you people do not have a home-land until the British Balfour gave his known promise to the Jews to give Palestine to them on a plate of gold, and that's what happened in 1948 the poor Palestinians driven out from their land by force and massacres and terrorism by the Zionist Jews with the full help of the British.

Britain takes full responsibility until today to what happened to more than 8 millions Palestinians refugees in all over the world and in my opinion the British government must find another home-land to the Jews may be in Wales or Scotland and bring back the Palestinians to their home land.

[ti3gib]

Where's the noisy gang ?

[Threadlike]

Judging by the people treat Muslims for quoting a few verses out of context in the Qura'an and calling them 'violent', I think we need to pay some attention to the dudes who had 'the Holy Land' as an 'eternal gift'. You know, there are many who aren't Jews...Really!

[monotheism]

The Torah (Hebrew Scripture) declares explicitly countless times that the Holy Land of Israel is G-d's Eternal Gift to the Jewish people:

Throughout the Bible we find G-d's promises to give the Land of Israel to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants for all future generations.

The following is a brief selection of Biblical sources that demonstrate the Jewish ownership of the Holy Land of Israel, because of divine promise:

G-d appeared to Abram and said, "To your offspring I will give this land." Genesis 12:7.

G-d said to Abram … "Raise now your eyes and look out from where you are: northward, southward, eastward, and westward. For all the land that you see, to you will I give it, and to your descendants forever." Genesis 13:14-15.

G-d said to Abram…"Arise, walk about the land through its length and breadth! For to you will I give it." Genesis 13:17.

Abraham purchases Cave of Machpela in Hebron. Genesis 15:7. 15:18-21. 17:8. 23:16-18.

G-d promises that Isaac shall inherit Abraham. Genesis 17:19. 21:12.

Abraham gives all his possessions to Isaac. Genesis 25:5.

Abraham was buried in the Cave of Machpela. Genesis 25:10.

G-d promises Isaac that He will fulfill His promise of the land to Abraham. Genesis 26:3-4.

Isaac hands down the promise of the land to Jacob. Genesis 28:4.

G-d promises the Land of Israel to Jacob. Genesis 28:13.

Jacob purchases land in Shechem. Genesis 33:19.

G-d promises to give Jacob and his offspring the Land of Israel. Genesis 35:12.

Jacob gives Shechem to Joseph. Genesis 48:21-22.

Joseph tells his brothers G-d will remember His promise to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Genesis 49:30. 50:13. 50:24.

G-d tells Moses to tell the Jews that He will bring them to the land promised to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Exodus 6:8

Moses promises redemption and the Jewish inheritance of Israel. Deuteronomy 30:3-5.

And yet as you know, the land allotted to Manasseh, Reuben, Asher and Naphtali is populated by the Arabs of Jordan and Lebanon and there is no attempt to seize it by force.

There is no reason why other lands included in God's grant of land to the Jews must absolutely be seized and held without regard to the wishes of the inhabitants, is there?
Nothing was seized by force. All the land that was won back in recent years was won back in defensive wars, i.e., the arabs tried to commit a mass pogrom, slay all the Jews, and the Jews defeated them and in the process of self-defence conquered land that was theirs all along because of the eternal divine gift.

God also said not to take what's not yours. Palestinians lived in Palestine for hundreds of years in fact since the seventh century and you people do not have a home-land until the British Balfour gave his known promise to the Jews to give Palestine to them on a plate of gold, and that's what happened in 1948 the poor Palestinians driven out from their land by force and massacres and terrorism by the Zionist Jews with the full help of the British.

Britain takes full responsibility until today to what happened to more than 8 millions Palestinians refugees in all over the world and in my opinion the British government must find another home-land to the Jews may be in Wales or Scotland and bring back the Palestinians to their home land.

Exactly, G-d said not to take what's not yours. And G-d says, the entire Holy Land belongs to the Jewish people alone, and so you would be well advised to encourage your non-Jewish brethren to stop illegally occupying stolen Jewish land, for their own good.

As for '48, I guess you don't know your history. The arabs started the war against the Jews because they didn't accept the UN partition plan (that the UN did selfishly).

As for the accursed British, they allowed non-Jews to murder Jews in the Holy Land for years. I'm glad that they left, though the current gov't there isn't doing much of a good job at protecting the Jews either, what with all the guns, land, and money they give to the mass murderers in the PLO and Hamas.

And our claim to the Holy Land has nothing to do with Balfour. That's nonsense. It wasn't his land to give. It was and is Jewish land given to every single Jew by G-d, Who created the entire world and can alot land to whomever He sees fit.

[UmKhalid]

We Arabs(Muslims and Christians) have all the right to fight the Israelis and drive them out of our land, and soon this will happen inshallah when all Arab nations unite and push the Jews off out of Palestine.

There ARE Arab Jews you know, everywhere.

[UmKhalid]

Throughout the Bible we find G-d's promises to give the Land of Israel to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants for all future generations.


Mohammed PBUH is a decsendant of Abaraham's.


Mohammed son of Abdullah son of AbdulMuttalib son of Hashim son of AbdManaf son of Qusay son of Kelab son of Mirra son of Ka'ab son of Loay son of Ghalib son of Fahar son of Malik son of Nadhr son of Kenana son of Khuazaima son of Mudraka son of Elias son of Mudhar son of Ma'ad son of Adnan son of Ishmael son of Abraham.

[Jeff]

Monotheism:

Defensive war? Pogrom? Highly arguable...

In any case, my point was: you needn't exercise all your claims. Israel doesn't exercise its claim to Jordan and Lebanon. It needn't exercise its claim to all of the land inhabited by others.


And our claim to the Holy Land has nothing to do with Balfour. That's nonsense. It wasn't his land to give. It was and is Jewish land given to every single Jew by G-d, Who created the entire world and can alot land to whomever He sees fit.

Your claim has nothing to do with Balfour?

Did you take it yourself then? Nothing to do with Britain fighting a war with Turkey? Nothing to do with the League of Nations mandating a national home for the Jews in Palestine?

Should you keep it yourself then? No assistance from outside countries that are friendly? No help at all? Nothing to do with anybody else? That would be a great relief to many in the US, let me tell you...

[clouds]

repeated post

[clouds]

Throughout the Bible we find G-d's promises to give the Land of Israel to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants for all future generations.


Listen if G-d really promise the holy land to the descendants of Abraham as it says in the Torah, we are (the Arabs) descendants of Abraham also, so we have equal rights in the holy land as well.

We Muslims believe in the Torah and Abraham and all the prophets you mentioned, so let's reach a compromise with you people where we can split the holy land into two equal states, and live happily ever after, no fighting, no blood shed, no killing innocent people on both sides.

do you agree?

[Jeff]

I don't think he'll agree, clouds. His Bible quotes say the promises of Abraham only descend through Isaac, not Ishmael.

But if he did agree, would you agree? There are lots and lots of Israelis who would like that solution very much.

I think that's the solution, you know...

[BrAiKi]

I think God Promised his land to those who follow his word:

(ولقد كتبنا في الزبور من بعد الذكر أن الأرض يرثها عبادي الصالحون)

Which means:



"Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."
The prophets 21:105

[clouds]

posted by Jeff

But if he did agree, would you agree?

If he agrees I would agree, but who is me or him to agree or disagree, the whole decision lies with the politicians hands, but we as normal people well most of us want really to live in peace with the Jews but not to sacrifice our rights.
Palestinian people have sufferd a lot of agony and torment whether at home or abroad it's time now to end their misery and give them back their right of an independent palestinian state .

[Jeff]

Well if that's what you're after, I think you are entirely right.

[monotheism]

Mohammed PBUH is a decsendant of Abaraham's.


Mohammed son of Abdullah son of AbdulMuttalib son of Hashim son of AbdManaf son of Qusay son of Kelab son of Mirra son of Ka'ab son of Loay son of Ghalib son of Fahar son of Malik son of Nadhr son of Kenana son of Khuazaima son of Mudraka son of Elias son of Mudhar son of Ma'ad son of Adnan son of Ishmael son of Abraham.
Even assuming that he was a descendant of Abraham, the Torah says clearly that only Isaac inherited from Abraham:
And to the sons of the concubines that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and, while he yet lived, sent them away from Isaac his son. Genesis 25:6

If he gave them gifts and sent them away (all but Isaac, i.e., he did send away Yishma'el), that means that they didn't inherit after that.

Also, Hagar, Yishma'el's mother, was a maidservant, and it's well known in Jewish law that children from a maidservant are slaves and do not inherit. So the one you call your ancestor was really nothing but a slave to Abraham. So much for that.

Monotheism:

Defensive war? Pogrom? Highly arguable...

In any case, my point was: you needn't exercise all your claims. Israel doesn't exercise its claim to Jordan and Lebanon. It needn't exercise its claim to all of the land inhabited by others.
I really don't understand your point. 1. It's not arguable that these were defensive wars--all the arab countries ganged up to kill the Jews, don't you know that?! 2. Once we already have control over the Land that G-d gave us, we ain't spitting in His face and giving it away to illegal occupiers.

Your claim has nothing to do with Balfour?

Did you take it yourself then? Nothing to do with Britain fighting a war with Turkey? Nothing to do with the League of Nations mandating a national home for the Jews in Palestine?

Should you keep it yourself then? No assistance from outside countries that are friendly? No help at all? Nothing to do with anybody else? That would be a great relief to many in the US, let me tell you...

The secular zionists, uneducated and ignorant of their true Jewish heritage, will give some of the reasons you say. But I'm an an Orthodox Jew, in touch with my age-old G-d-given Tradition that long predates all the other religions and secular philosophies around, and G-d has made His Will very clear as to who are the legitimate owners of the Holy Land and who is not, and there can be no compromise on this principle once G-d has allocated His land.

As for foreign aid, those who assist the Jews to settle their G-d-given land are really only doing a favour for themselves, for in this way they will being blessing and prosperity to their countries, as it is written of Abraham, "those who bless you will be blessed."

Listen if G-d really promise the holy land to the descendants of Abraham as it says in the Torah, we are (the Arabs) descendants of Abraham also, so we have equal rights in the holy land as well.

We Muslims believe in the Torah and Abraham and all the prophets you mentioned, so let's reach a compromise with you people where we can split the holy land into two equal states, and live happily ever after, no fighting, no blood shed, no killing innocent people on both sides.

do you agree?
See my 1st point in this post. Again, there can be no compromise on the Will of G-d which is that the Holy Land that is already in Jewish hands remain so. This is aside from the fact that giving away pieces of land to people who don't own them, i.e., stealing the land from it's real owners and giving it to others, is a tremendous disservice to those occupiers spiritually, and brings them the opposite of divine blessing. That wouldn't be an act of peace and goodwill at all. It would be quite inconsiderate and downright nasty.

If you truly don't want fighting and bloodshed, then tell your brethren to leave the Jews alone in their G-d given land, and defend the Jewish right to that land, so that all your brethren be blessed by G-d.


Well if that's what you're after, I think you are entirely right.

Yeah, who cares what G-d says on the matter! :rolleyes:

[clouds]

Also, Hagar, Yishma'el's mother, was a maidservant, and it's well known in Jewish law that children from a maidservant are slaves and do not inherit. So the one you call your ancestor was really nothing but a slave to Abraham. So much for that.


monotheism, our mother Hajar was not a slave to prophet Ibraham but a maid to his wife Sarah and he got married to her , do you have a problem in marrying a maid?

Their son Ismael is the brother of Ishaq and they have equal rights of inheritance, therfore the holy land promised to Ibraham in the Torah his both sons have equal shares in it.

so Arabs (Palestinians)(descendants of Ismael) have equal rights in Palestine as Jews (descendants of Ishaq) have.

That's fair isn't it?

[Pygmalion]

Remember, I said that the Ark of the Covenant (a sort of wooden box), which was kept in the original Temple, used to contain the Tablets of the Law given to Moses by God?

The Ark of the Covenant was kept from the time of Moses to the time of David in a tent which moved from place to place. But Solomon built the Temple as a permanent home for it, under direction from God.

Well, there was a place in the Temple where that Ark was kept. It was screened off by a curtain and it was called the "Holy of Holies." Only the Chief Priest could enter the Holy of Holies and only once a year.



Thanks Jeff for the info, very helpful.
I think the Ark, is what is mentioned in the Quran as Al-Tabut.
وَقَالَ لَهُمْ نِبِيُّهُمْ إِنَّ آيَةَ مُلْكِهِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ التَّابُوتُ فِيهِ سَكِينَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَبَقِيَّةٌ مِّمَّا تَرَكَ آلُ مُوسَى وَآلُ هَارُونَ تَحْمِلُهُ الْمَلآئِكَةُ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ (248)

[248] And their Prophet (Samuel (peace be upon him)) said to them: Verily! The sign of His Kingdom is that there shall come to you At-Tâbût (a wooden box), wherein is Sakinah (peace and reassurance) from your Lord and a remnant of that which Musâ (Moses) and Hârûn (Aaron) left behind, carried by the angels. Verily, in this is a sign for you if you are indeed believers.

The Tables are also mentioned as Al-Alwa7:

وَلَمَّا سَكَتَ عَن مُّوسَى الْغَضَبُ أَخَذَ الأَلْوَاحَ وَفِي نُسْخَتِهَا هُدًى وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلَّذِينَ هُمْ لِرَبِّهِمْ يَرْهَبُونَ (154)
[154] And when the anger of Mûsâ (Moses) was calmed down, he took up the Tablets; and in their inscription was guidance and mercy for those who fear their Lord.



In one of the Tafaseer, I read that Al-Tabut a woden box where the Al-Alwa7 or the Tables are kept with the Sandals of Prophet Haroun and the Stick of the prophet Moosa.
It was also the sign of kindom of Talut (Saul).

[Threadlike]

Oh come on Mono...Don't be such a violent man...Taking the holy land and not giving it to its 'illegal occupiers'. I'm not sure what kind of a god would tell you to take what was never yours you know!

[Kara]

Yeah and Egypt should be given back to the Copts! Lets set the world back to rights.
And don't get me started on the poor Nubians.

[Pygmalion]

I agree with you, Jews has no right what so ever in Palestine.
-if they believe Palestine is the Promised Land, why would Arab pay for what they believe. What if a religion promised its adherents, say, Austria, would the Austrians have to accept what that religion prescribed?

-Who persecuted the Jews? Certainly not the Arab, if you check the Jewish literature, they have the so called Golden Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain)of the Jewish people, do you know what that is? It is the Jewish existence in Spain during the Islamic reign. If Europe regrets what happened to them, then they should be given a part of Germany, Poland or Russia, why Palestine?

-Why is everybody mourning over what happened to them, why is Hitler always remembered of torturing the Jews? He did the same to the homosexuals and the Gypsies.
Why is the number of the Jews killed in Grmany exaggerated? If we have today 20 millions of Jews in the world, How many were there in 1940’s? Say 12, is it possible that half of them were only in Germany assuming that Hitler killed each and every Jew there although he did not.

-Why does Germany have to bear the guilt and pass it over from a generation to another despite the perishment of Hitler's regime, yet not long ago, just last month, the International Court of Justice refused to link the Serbian government to the cruelest massacre in the modern time committed by Slobodan Milosevic against the Muslims in Europe, despite the fact that some Milosevic’s men are still serving in the today government.

Moreover, France which is a prominent member in the European Union is insisting on Turkey to admit the guilt of a massacre committed by the Ottoman in 1920’s against the Armenians. Why is the double standard?


Now it comes to those who try to look humane and claim that any people in the world have the right to a mother nation. Well, and does this country has to be Palestine?
If they have the right to a country, then Sikhs are also a minority in India, shouldn't they be given a country? Also the Morons, Wiccans and many other would ask for a country. Would it make sense?
Who gave Arthur James Belfour, the British Foreign Minster in the 1940,s, the right to give Palestine to the Jews, why didn’t he give them Wales or a part of England?

A good solution I think is to give Palestine back to the Palestinians and to REPATRIATE the Jews. Or at least Palestine is to be ruled by the Palestinians.

[Kara]

Have we finished going off topic yet??

[monotheism]

monotheism, our mother Hajar was not a slave to prophet Ibraham but a maid to his wife Sarah and he got married to her , do you have a problem in marrying a maid?

Their son Ismael is the brother of Ishaq and they have equal rights of inheritance, therfore the holy land promised to Ibraham in the Torah his both sons have equal shares in it.
Please, go back and study the text.

1. According to the Torah, Hagar was a maidservant, i.e., slave. It's written explicitly in the text. I don't have any problem with it. That's what Sarah asked him to do. Sarah asked Avraham to have a child through Hagar. It wasn't a marriage in the normal sense. And Sarah says this very clearly, that Hagar was a maidservant and therefore her child Yishmael will not inherit:

"Send this maidservant away; for this son of this maidservant will not inherit together with my son, with Isaac." (Genesis, 21:10)

2. As I mentioned, the Torah explicitly says that Avraham gave his sons other than Isaac gifts during his lifetime and then sent them away. That means that they were not to receive an inheritance.

These are clear sources.


Oh come on Mono...Don't be such a violent man...Taking the holy land and not giving it to its 'illegal occupiers'. I'm not sure what kind of a god would tell you to take what was never yours you know!

A G-d Who owns the entire world has every right to choose to give land in it to whomsoever he desires! And He has stated very clearly in the Holy Torah that every last inch of it belongs to the entire Jewish people.


-Who persecuted the Jews? Certainly not the Arab, if you check the Jewish literature, they have the so called Golden Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain)of the Jewish people, do you know what that is? It is the Jewish existence in Spain during the Islamic reign. If Europe regrets what happened to them, then they should be given a part of Germany, Poland or Russia, why Palestine?

True, relatively speaking, the Christians persecuted the Jews throughout history much more than the Muslims. But that's irrelevant. The Torah says that the Holy Land is the eternal gift to the Jewish people long before the Christians or the Muslims existed.


How many [Jews]were there in 1940’s? Say 12, is it possible that half of them were only in Germany assuming that Hitler killed each and every Jew there although he did not.

Jews were slaughtered by the Nazi regime and their willing European collaborators throughout Europe, not just in Germany. But you're deviating.

-Why does Germany have to bear the guilt and pass it over from a generation to another despite the perishment of Hitler's regime, yet not long ago, just last month, the International Court of Justice refused to link the Serbian government to the cruelest massacre in the modern time committed by Slobodan Milosevic against the Muslims in Europe, despite the fact that some Milosevic’s men are still serving in the today government.

To answer your question unrelated to the thread topic, the horror of the Holocaust--herding millions of people in to camps and systematically slaying them in gas chambers and ovens--is not paralleled anywhere else, As far as I know. But again, if you really want to discuss this, start another thread.

Who gave Arthur James Belfour, the British Foreign Minster in the 1940's, the right to give Palestine to the Jews

I agree totally. It's not his land to give. It's Jewish land and it's absurd for anyone to claim that Jewish land belongs to Jews because of some Britisher, when G-d, Who created the world, gave it to the Jewish people.

[clouds]

mono, you have left no other choice for peace, so if war you want be it a war and the land of palestine from north to south and from east to west will be belongs one day to the muslims as our prophet Mohammed(pbuh) predicted where the Jew will end up hiding behind rocks and the rock will shout out to the muslims: there is a Jew behind me come and kill him.

Long live Hamas long live Hizbulah long live Ahmadi Najad

[BrAiKi]

This Topic has deviated so much from its main purpose.. Anyway, the thread founder's questions were satisfyingly answered. This thread is locked to avoid further off-topics/attacks :)