Hi Guys and Girls,

Hope personal problems is the right thread for my question??

I am a girl from America (believe me, I don't belong to the stupid ones; and I absolutely hate Bush!! :yuk: + originally I'm from Brazil).

For my class in gender studies I have decided to write an essay about women in the Arab Gulf and have chosen Oman as a case study. :)

I've read many threads in this forum with great interest,:sabla:
but it is very hard to find out the truth about the average Omani girl, though the average girl or woman probably does not exist. I have found a very interesting and shocking website:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~skalmutt/uae/about.html

It is about UAE women, not about Omanis, but maybe there are parallels. I have a female friend in Saudi Arabia, and she told me that Omani girls are in a very enviable, wonderful position compared to her, but that it also depends on her family whether an Omani girl will become a free woman or not.
My Saudi friend said that Omani women do not need permissions for every little thing they want to do, but that they nevertheless would have no change to study, for example, if their family objected.
True or not true?

My impression about young Omani women (from reading, unfortunately I have never been in Oman :( )is that they are relatively free, no slaves (I can really recommend that website to you, though it's sad), but that they live in a relatively protective environment.

When I read in said website that a girl who wants to go to a mall, for example, needs permission from her mother, father and brothers; I was thinking: "wouldn't they all be annoyed in the end if all the time a sister came along and asked "do you allow me?" "Can I?",...:hmm:

But on the other hand it is hard for me to imagine that an Omani girl (maybe aged 17) can just leave her house without saying anything to anybody and do whatever she likes; or that a young Omani woman can do so.
-I think boys can do that, but girls not; and I believe that boys in Oman can stay away and do whatever they like. Maybe I'm wrong...

According to my impression the situation of an Omani girl lies somewhere in the middle between the awful article about Emirati women and complete freedom. But I need much, much more insight, for example:

what can Omani girls do, can they go to malls alone, do they need permission for that or do they only have to inform a parent?

And what about married Omani women? Do they ask their husbands for permission if they want to leave the house? Or do they rather inform: eg "I'm going to meet with my friend Fatima in mall X?"

How are things the other way around? Do husbands mention their wherebouts to their wives?

I know that gender segregation is valued very highly in the Arab Gulf region, but what happens if a boy or a man invites friends to his home?
Do the sisters/wife hide then?
And do the male family members hide if the wife or a sister receive female visitors?

That sounds probably very stupid :blush: , but it is really hard for me to imagine life in your culture. :think:

I fear that some of you might think "oh no, one of those crap American feminists again... who tries to present the Arabs in a bad light."
But that's the very, very last thing I want to do.
I've already written a lot about the dark side of America (rape, just as one example :mmhmm: ), my aim isn't to judge, but to inform and to learn, for instance, why countries are so different.

I would be so grateful to you if you could help me. :) :) :)

Morela

According to me:

As a girl growing up, yes I had to inform my parents where I was going, with whom, and what time I would be back. I still have to do that even though I'm a grown woman of 19 studying and living alone abroad. As long as I'm under their roof, I follow their rules as my mother puts it.

My parents have grown a little lenient wit me since I started studying abroad. I can go out without asking permission but I have to inform them in whatever way. Sometimes they would get angry and remind me that I'm still their daughter and I don't live in a hotel where I can come in and out anytime I want :p My point is, they are not strict as they used to be.

My family is moderately religious. They're not really concerned with male/female segregation. My cousins and I have been brought up as brothers and sisters. If male relatives visit us at home, it's okay if I sit with them as long as my father or brothers are there and this is only if I know the male relatives visiting us. If they're strangers, then I would be upstairs somewhere and would rather not sit with them. My father might call me to introduce me to them, but that's it. It truly depends on the men visiting us. Sometimes the door would be closed when my father wouldn't want us to be seen and only men with be sitting in the majlis [sitting room].

I can go out with my cousins as long as we're a group of girls and guys. Of course I'm not allowed to go out with a male cousin alone. However, it's okay if I had my brother with me or sister or a female cousin accompanying us to wherever we're going.

I studied in a co-ed school, so my parents acknowledged the fact that I was interacting with male class mates and might develop some sort of relationship with them. That's why my parents have let me meet up with them every once in a while if we had a reunion of some kind with my classmates.

According to my parent's/uncles/aunts marriages, they merely inform each other about their whereabouts. They don't ask permission per se.

Your impression is correct. The males in our soceity have way more freedom than us. A woman's reputation here is still very important and if she was completely "free", then her reputation would be tarnished. A girl shouldn't be out till dawn roaming the streets. A girl should smoke/drink/sleep around/date or do anything of that sort. On the other hand, a man might get away with it. There is no gender equality when it comes to society. According to society, women are vulnerable and should be protected. That's why we've considerable limitations as opposed to men.

umm.. isn't it normal to tell your parents when you're going out regardless whether you're a guy or a girl so long as you're living in their house regardless of your age?

My brothers don't inform my parents where they're going and with whom. My parents simply know that they're out somewhere. That's mostly how is it with most of my male cousins and friends.

My brothers are old. If they were still in school, it would be a different case.

I'm eighteen, which I guess makes me a young Omani girl, and growing up I had to ask my parents for permission for everything, but this wasn't because I was a girl. Even my brothers would have to ask for permission before doing anything. It's nice that there are no exceptions or double standards, although there have been some instances when my parents would be tougher on me than on my brothers, because I'm a girl and the society we live in focuses a lot on a girl's reputation. Basically, parents in general always worry about how other people view their daughters, because once a girl's reputation is tarnished, she'll have a lot of difficulty finding someone decent who wants to marry her.

When I was still growing up in school, I did have to ask for permission whenever I wanted to go out, and I'd have a curfew, but I think that's normal for any high school kid. I didn't feel like it was extreme. I'd be able to go out with my friends, go out for dinner, coffee, a movie, etc.

I left Oman when I was 17 to go and study in the UK (with my parents' encouragement). I come from a very well educated family, and my family always focuses on education and career - for the girls just as much as the guys.

I'm still a university student, and I've found that my parents have become a lot more lenient with me over the past year.. I guess it's because they think I've grown up and become more mature, I know right from wrong, and I can be responsible (I think! LOL). I'm in Oman for my summer break right now, and I get to leave the house whenever I want, I don't really ask for permission, I just inform the maid or someone at home that I'm going out so they don't have to worry about where I am. I do have a curfew, I can't stay out after midnight, which isn't too bad compared to some of my friends who have to be home by 10pm.

I don't feel like I'm restricted in any way. I drive, I have my own mobile phone to call whoever whenever, I've got my internet connection in my room, I go out with friends almost every day, etc.

Like Lym, I also grew up with my male cousins. I'm quite close to a few of them, and consider them as my brothers. Also, I went to a co-ed school and some of my close friends were guys. My parents never seemed to have a problem with that.

In general, when it comes to the day to day outings, and education, the girls in my family are treated the same way as the guys. There's no discrimination at all. The only thing that differs is that the guys can be allowed to stay out later than the girls and they can go out a lot more often.

Also, most parents are more willing to accept the idea of their sons being in relationships/dating, while they wouldn't really like to hear that their daughter has been involved with someone. Again, this is mainly due to the fact that society will totally look down at a girl who's been involved with people and had numerous relationships. If a girl is in a relationship with someone, then usually her parents will try to cut off all means of communication between her and the guy (eg ground her, take away her phone,etc), while other parents will realize that it's normal at this age to be interested in guys, and will just advise the girl to be discreet about it.

It all depends on what sort of family you come from. I know that there are some girls who are hardly allowed to go out because it's considered "inappropriate" to be seen out of the house. I feel sorry for them, and I am so thankful that my family isn't like that!

Took this off the site you posted:

Marriage is by arrangement, and the bride, who often does not meet the groom before the wedding night, has little if any say in the decision. Although the right to refuse a match exists, rarely is it exercised, as young girls are not in a position to question the arrangement.

This is not how it works in my family AT ALL. We have no arranged marriages. Every single one of my cousins who are now married, have either known their (now) husband relatively well at least months before the wedding, or have actually dated for years.

Also, the girls in my family have every right to refuse a potential spouse, regardless of the reason. Even if it's a silly excuse such as "he's not tall enough", it's the girl's choice.

Girls in my family rarely get married before graduating from university. We're expected to get an education first, make something out of ourselves (careerwise) before settling down and starting a family.

The only thing that annoys me is that they expect you to get married as soon as you've graduated from college. It's like, now you have no reason not to get married, so get to know someone appropriate, and get married. There's this constant reminder that you need to find someone suitable by the time you're 25 or you need to start worrying.

Hmm, that gives me 7 years to meet my future husband, or no one's gonna want me cos I'll officially be considered as a spinster. Haha. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't consider it 'slavery' that a girl has to ask permission from her parents about things, although I understand that a lot of people who don't live and experience this culture would see it as that.

I don't have to ask permission from my brothers, just my mother or my father, but usually my mother. When I was younger I would ask permission for everything. Now that I'm a bit older, I still let my mother know where I'm going, but if she decides that I shouldn't go to that place, for whatever reason, I just stay in. When I go out, I don't have to go with a brother or a chaperone, Oman is relatively safe. But if I want to go somewhere by walk, I always take a maid or my brother with me.

My brothers rarely ever bring their friends over, but if they do, they confine themselves to one room. I think it's like that in most houses, anyways.

Because of the shame associated with the female body, and the human body in general, young women grow up knowing little about their bodies. Because of the conservative society and so-called Islamic values, a young woman is taught to cover her body from the eyes of others and to feel shame if by mistake a part of her arm or leg becomes uncovered. She grows up too shy to discuss her body with others, even for medical reasons (Gulf News, UAE Seeks to Slash Breast Cancer Mortality Rate).

Sex education does not exist in school or at home, until, perhaps, before a woman's marriage.


I disagree with this. I was never ashamed of my body, and I wasn't robbed of my childhood by being forced to cover up from head to toe when I was still nothing more than a child.

My parents are both doctors, so we were always taught that there's nothing shameful about the human body. We'd be allowed to go swimming in public, wear shorts, whatever until we were about 15, then we had to start dressing more conservatively.

Also, since I went to a private school, I did take Sex Ed at school. My friends and I all knew about sex around the age of 12 or 13. Not just from Biology at school, but we'd get our hands on magazines, books, we'd hear older friends or relatives talking about it. It was never really a "taboo" subject.

People have sex, that's a fact of life. I don't see why people can't talk about it.

I am Omani woman who come from a medium level strict family. I do share alot of what lym and Libba have, like I can drive go out to malls with the permission of my family when I was living with them but at the same time my parents were a bit stricter when it comes to male female segregation.

I went to a co-ed schoool until grade 6, and then my parents transfered me to a girls only school.
My relations with my male cousins is close, however, when I started adolscene I was not allowed to go out as a group without our parents.

Regarding marraige, its not at all like what you mentioned. all my female relatives got married with thier choice. They might have not known thier husband for long, but they were given the free choice to accept or not.

I am a married woman, and I think my relation with my husband is like any average husband and wife in America. I do ask permission, but not because he would refuse but just in case he has other plans and he does take permission from me too for the same reason.

I am as free as I like to, and I wouldnt trade this freedom I have now with any other freedom!

.. i think it's away how to make respect mutual.. and to apply two rules:

1. Do as u like to be done.. so if u want to be respected, then respect others!!.. n in our culture, parents are a very valuable thing.

2. life is a debt.. so one day u'll pay the debt.

.. it is automatically goes like that since the age of childhood.. for the kids no need to tell them if u go outside u should tell ur parents, because they learn it from the older ones i.e. brothers n sisters..

.. we r not forced to do so.. but it's a sign of respect.. also it's a sign of giving a value for the older ppl i.e. regardless the relationship.. we all need to feel to be valued!! so if i tell my parents where im heading to , then my parents will feel valued.. and the same thing.. if my parents asked me where im goin.. then that means im something valued to them and they care abt me!!

.. it's a matter of respect and co-operation rather than a matter of being strict!! my father says: if u help me, I will help u.. if u do not, still i'll try to help u but if i failed to do so, plz do not blame me!!..

.. final point.. five fingers rule which apply for all humen being!!

Libby, I don't think you're a perfect example of a typical Omani lady. :os

^^ well, a lot of what Libellula said applies to me and an amazing number of girls. However, there are still girls who are oppressed and forced into marriage.

Yes they are Allah slaves.

I've already written a lot about the dark side of America (rape, just as one example :mmhmm: ), my aim isn't to judge, but to inform and to learn, for instance, why countries are so different.

I would be so grateful to you if you could help me. :) :) :)

Morela

I hope you open a thread about the dark side of America ;).

BTW, Oman is a muslim country and you should not expect muslim girls to have 100% freedom, because a muslim girl expected to follow Islamic teachings. For example a wife is requested to ask her husband for permission before going out.

but LYM i don't think it happens alot as it was before
people are more educated today than they were yesterday
and as Ice Tea said we're ALL slaves to Allah men and women :)

^^ I agree but I was mentioning that it still exists even though it's in very small numbers.

see, Morela we are all free however we do have limits to what we do
we have rules to follow and this applies to everybody, men and women as well
it doesn't mean we're slaves or we do things by force
we completely believe in wut we do thank god because there is a reason and a justification for everything we do :)
unfortunately few people just mis-use these islamic rules for evil and of course we don't accept it
anyway i assure u we muslim women are more than happy thank god :) no need for anyone to feel sorry coz actually there is no reason to feel sad for us

by the way, taking a permission from our parents/husbands actually is a good thing
if, god forbids, something bad happend to the person at least her parents/husband will know where she was
see, i heard many stories in USA about girls who go out and never come back
that's pretty scary
so just look at the positive points :sunsmile:

Lamloola, by my earlier post I didn't mean to say that Omani girls in general are oppressed at all. Personally, I think Omani women are much better off 'oppression wise' as compared to women in many other parts of the world... of course, the over all Omani men's brotherly/fatherly act could undergo a little change, but still.

Personally, when I was younger, I used to absolutely hate the fact that I had to ask for permission for every single thing, and was sometimes ( a lot of the times actually) denied my permission. Until one day I went through a very bad experience when I was out, and now I thank God every day that I have a mother who actually cares enough to want to know where I am at all times.

Libby, I don't think you're a perfect example of a typical Omani lady. :os

I agree.

Morela,

It really depends on the family the girl is from. Girls, living in the capital city, Muscat, are generally very free for your typical Arab Gulf lady. I would say pretty much similar to Kuwaiti or Bahraini women. While women living in the Interior (outside Muscat) lead very traditional lives and are very different, I would think very similar to UAE women. This is my opinion.

Dear All,

Thank you so much for your interesting and insightful answers! :)

First of all, I would like to say one thing:
I would never consider girls who have to ask their parents for permission when they want to go out as slaves.

However, the article I read on http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~skalmutt/uae/about.html
did show parallels to slavery.
If brothers take the freedom to destroy their sister's privacy by going through their belongings and if they monitor every step their sisters make, even if they are inside the house, then I can't help feeling pity for those girls. :(
However, the article was about the UAE.

I agree.It really depends on the family the girl is from. Girls, living in the capital city, Muscat, are generally very free for your typical Arab Gulf lady. I would say pretty much similar to Kuwaiti or Bahraini women. While women living in the Interior (outside Muscat) lead very traditional lives and are very different, I would think very similar to UAE women. This is my opinion.

Does that mean that women outside Muscat live lives which are similar to the lives of Emirati women?

In former time I used to believe that UAE girls have the most freedom in the Arab Gulf, especially the girls in Dubai. Have I been wrong with my conclusion; and do girls in Muscat actually have more freedom than girls in Dubai or Abu Dhabi-City? :think:

Does the life of girls outside Muscat resemble the life of Emirati girls? Is there, after all, some truth in the article I mentioned?

I find it hard to imagine Emirati girls living traditional lives.

My impression about Omani girls -in Muscat- is as follows (of course, that's a generalization now):

When they are in high school, they have to ask for permission when they want to leave their house; but normally they only ask one person (for example, the mother) and not the whole family.

Omani girls do not receive less attention or love in their families than their brothers; and their brothers are not considered smarter or more important by their parents.
But boys do get more freedom; and many teenage boys can leave their houses without saying anything about their whereabouts and stay away as long as they please.

When Omani girls get older and go to college, questions like "can I" or "do you allow me?" are often replaced by statements which just indicate where you want to go.

When an Omani woman marries, then she normally informs her husband if she wants to meet with somebody and her husband informs her.
But most Omani women do not ask their husbands: "Do you allow me to go to Mall X and to meet with my friend Z?"

Please correct me if anything about my picture is wrong.

And: HOW do Omani girls who have no driving licence yet make it to get to malls?

BTW, Oman is a muslim country and you should not expect muslim girls to have 100% freedom, because a muslim girl expected to follow Islamic teachings. For example a wife is requested to ask her husband for permission before going out.

Well, IceTea, my question is not about traditional demands on Omani women, but about the actual situation. Maybe Omani women are expected to ask, but the impression I gained is that most Omani women and girls in Muscat rather tend to inform than to ask. ;)

I hope you open a thread about the dark side of America ;).

Maybe I should do so when I'll have finished my essay about Oman.

I guess I can give you a little summary already now, but it won't be funny :cry:
-teenage pregnancy, date rape, gang rape (University campuses here are not a safe place :mmhmm: when it's dark), drugs, rape drugs, many people who are very narrow-minded and consider every other country as a state which will ultimately turn to the American way of life, the President(that says all :help: ),
and the really crazy focus on being cool.

Lucky for me, I did go to high school in Brazil. Here the following often happens:
Sometimes the only way for a girl to reach a high status in her high school is being popular with the guys.
A girl who had no sex is not considered mature, but sex can lead to children :Shock: (and America's "great" government spreads the message that contraception is from the devil).
Therefore, they give the guys blow jobs. Really!
A girl who hasn't met that challenge is considered immature.
I think in THIS way girls become slaves; and the ones who have fun are the boys.
Of course, the blow-job challenge as an entry ticket to coolness and "maturity" does not exist in every high school, but this rubbish does happen not so rarely. :(

Pretty disgusting, isn't it?

Anyway, Thanks to every single person here who has helped me! :) :) :)

Morela

Morela,
I hoped u get the answers right up there becasue there interesting important facts for you.
I am a young Omani guy, who is not from Muscat, and i believe that my sisters have all the right to go out as long as they inform my father anf mother and onces they agree, it is alright.
To add, our parents (and they are old and not raised in Muscat) never make us, we men in the house, feel like superior over our sisters.
It is all about the protective look to women...;)

Well, IceTea, my question is not about traditional demands on Omani women, but about the actual situation. Maybe Omani women are expected to ask, but the impression I gained is that most Omani women and girls in Muscat rather tend to inform than to ask. ;)


Well if the girl is going to the same place which is already approved by her parents then she doesn't need to ask just inform them, like if she is going to school everyday, she just go in the morning without even telling because it's a routine thing. Same if she is going to the market she will inform them but if they didn't agree then she should obey her parents, but if she is going to a new place like a school trip then the permission is needed, and I think even the school will require parents permission because at the end they are the responsible people about her and there is nothing wrong with that.

A muslim woman (not just Omani woman) is requested to get her husband permission if she wants to go out. But same thing if she is working then it's not required to tell her husband everyday, because it's routine thing.


Maybe I should do so when I'll have finished my essay about Oman.

I guess I can give you a little summary already now, but it won't be funny :cry:
-teenage pregnancy, date rape, gang rape (University campuses here are not a safe place :mmhmm: when it's dark), drugs, rape drugs, many people who are very narrow-minded and consider every other country as a state which will ultimately turn to the American way of life, the President(that says all :help: ),
and the really crazy focus on being cool.

Lucky for me, I did go to high school in Brazil. Here the following often happens:
Sometimes the only way for a girl to reach a high status in her high school is being popular with the guys.
A girl who had no sex is not considered mature, but sex can lead to children :Shock: (and America's "great" government spreads the message that contraception is from the devil).
Therefore, they give the guys blow jobs. Really!
A girl who hasn't met that challenge is considered immature.
I think in THIS way girls become slaves; and the ones who have fun are the boys.
Of course, the blow-job challenge as an entry ticket to coolness and "maturity" does not exist in every high school, but this rubbish does happen not so rarely. :(

Pretty disgusting, isn't it?

Anyway, Thanks to every single person here who has helped me! :) :) :)

Morela

I'm speechless, looks like girls there treated as sex objects. I'm sure if they follow Islamic teachings then all their society corruption will be solved.

Woooah Morella :o!!! You know I actually got that impression about America in like the really bad places and stuff, but I didn't know it was sooo widespread! I'm glad I haven't decided to go to college there now :p

Anyways I think that the summary you gave about all the info we gave you is right.

Btw, I asked my aunts once in Emirates how Emarati girls go out and stuff and this is what she told me:
The girls do go out, but Dubai is soooo much more dangerous than Oman, there are a LOT more men around and a very very high percentage of them are tourists, and they've had a lot of bad experiences with them, so the girls if they want to go out with their friends they ALWAYS go with either their mom, or aunt or an older male of the family. And they don't go to malls that much anyways, most of the time is spent in the homes of the families... and believe me if you see Emarati homes, they're not missing out on anything :p

This is my family of course, I don't know about other emarati girls :D

I used to think that was incredibly unfair but then my aunt there gave me a nice analogy that her parents used to tell her when she complained :p
She said that the women in the family, especially the young women, are each like diamonds. We want to keep these diamonds in a safe place, and because it's so precious, try to keep it from the eyes of theives, who might try to steal it away or something...

Of course my mind started to wander when I heard the word 'diamond', so I'm very satisfied with that explanation :p

Hi there, :)

...finally weekend. Well, at least in California, though it'll be over tomorrow:rolleyes: .

@Ichigo, Thank you for your supportive words. :) You mentioned that girls are treated in a protective way in your family, and that boys are not treated as somebody better. Is this the case in the majority of Omani families?
I read an article about the UAE (probably very subjective), which was like "boys go through their sister's belongings, and basically boss them around as much as they can."

@Icetea... I made it to make YOU speechless? This again makes me speechless! :) Concluding from your statements (I read threads in this forum before entering it), I didn't think that this is possible.
Anyway, what other reaction to the stuff I told could be there except for speechlessness? :(
Islam in America?
Well, somehow many people here definitely lack guidance and a brain and Islam could help to improve them.
But being born without a brain, they associate Islam only with bad things and do not bother to learn about the religion.
Of course, I generalize now and there are always those who are different, we do have open people here and converts !, but I doubt that most of the "oh-so-great Christians" (ha ha) here would embrace Islam.
The problem is that many girls have not the slightest idea about how objectified they are. They consider themselves as independent, free and self-confident, and in fact they are nothing of the above. :hmm:

Anyway, my essay is about Oman, and my really resolute and determined (sigh) female lecturer will give me trouble if I won't come up with something really great.

By now I know that in Islam women are required to ask for their husband's permission if they want to leave the house for a non-routine activity.

However, imagining things, so that you practically see them in front of you, isn't easy.

If they want to visit a friend, for example, or go shopping with a friend, does the majority of women in Muscat say to their husbands then "do you allow me to..." or do they say "I will go to the mall with my friend" and listen to their husband's objection, if he has any?
Or do they try to get their own way if the husband expresses objections?

And what happens if they want to go out, but their husband is not at home?
And what happens if, for example, a 22 year old unmarried woman wants to go to meet a friend, but none of her parents is at home?

My essay is about Islam, but the main part is about female Omani behaviour, which is of course based on Islam, but maybe not always in line, because teachings and actions often differ.

I hope I'm not a nuisance with all my questions. From a Brazilian/Californian perspective it is really difficult to write an essay about Oman :think:

@Fatamoo, I really think you can count yourself lucky that you're not in the US. :) In college many things are better than in high school, because there's a greater choice of friends and if some people behave like rubbish, you can just forget about them, while in high school, this kind of people will spread rumours :( (for example, "old spinster" about a girl who decided not to become a sex-toy of the boys in her form or who is not regarded as "pretty" enough by the guys).
Of course, not every high school is like that, and it seems that things have deteriorated. My roommate, for instance, tells me that the generation of her older sister, who is 29 now, was much more self-confident than her own generation and would have never done the things many girls do today.
Seems that this humiliating "coolness-challenge" spreads like a virus.:help:

And as for college? Well... generelly I do not dislike this place.
Anyway, in some universities there are sonorities who accept their members only on basis of their looks/how thin they are; and many girls get anorexic just to get into such a stupid sonority.
You can decide to search for more intelligent friends, but often sonority members have the highest status, even if those who are outside are not always gossiped about.
But it seems very very hard to find a place here in which no woman is willing to act like a toy only to please others. :cry:

I have nice friends and not a bad life here, but sometimes I'd wish for a gender segregated campus, on which I could go to the library after sunset (which is very early here) without the fear of being attacked. :rolleyes:
US is just too violent.

In your message you mentioned tourists who cause trouble to Emirati girls? What do they do and what kind of tourists?
I don't want to make every American appear bad (we have decent American men and women here, too), but I wouldn't be surprised if the behaviour you mentioned comes from some Americans.
Did you mean Western tourists?
I thought such men would be much too scared to approach an Arab Guld woman, especially after Mr Bush has caused all that horrible trouble in the world. :think:

And friends go out with their friends, but have a mother or older male relative in tow? How is this possible?
I always thought that, for example, a father would stay away from the female friends of his daughter, or is it okay if the father accompanies them and if they wear an abayya, which I believe every Arab Gulf woman wears?

How are things in Oman? Is it okay for a father to see his daughter's friends?
Or for a mother to see her son's male friends?
Does she put on an abayya or cover her hair if male friends of her sons or husband enter the home and if she cannot avoid going through the room in which they are?

Well, long message.

Many Thanks for your help! :)

Libby, I don't think you're a perfect example of a typical Omani lady. :os

i totally support what she said .. and well thats how our family is i'd say open minded and its not that they r giving us freedom 2 do wt evr .. but showing us that were a grown up n we could take responsibilities of ourselves ... !! hmm shinoda r u from the interior ???:think:

It's ok for a father to see his daughters friends, but if they wear hijab, then he would probably not be nearby a lot to give them room to be comfortable without being worried about a man walking in on them.

And a mother can also see her son's friends, but once they have reached puberty, she has to wear her hijab in front of them.

In your message you mentioned tourists who cause trouble to Emirati girls? What do they do and what kind of tourists?

Did you mean Western tourists?

Well, there are a lot of western tourists, but when my aunt was telling me about the problems, she would just say 'ajaneb' which means foreigners, so it could mean from anywhere outside the arab world. Not that arab males with too much free time aren't as bad, but UAE does have a significantly high amount of foreigners, so I guess it shows more.

I thought such men would be much too scared to approach an Arab Guld woman, especially after Mr Bush has caused all that horrible trouble in the world. :think:

It's just how guys think, lol :p when they see a pretty girl the only thing they can think of is how they can get closer to her, and that's universal :p


And friends go out with their friends, but have a mother or older male relative in tow? How is this possible?

I always thought that, for example, a father would stay away from the female friends of his daughter, or is it okay if the father accompanies them and if they wear an abayya, which I believe every Arab Gulf woman wears?

Usually my cousin there goes out with other cousins her own age (our families are very big, so most of her friends would probably be related to her anyways), so when her father goes along, her friends are also his nieces :p

It depends on the girl, her parents etc.

This isnt only here, its everywhere. You just cant leave without telling someone about your whereabouts, what if something happend to you?

Personally speaking, I do have a curfew and I can't go out just like that whenever I want. Last time I sneaked out things got really chaotic at home :P So I have to inform someone about my whereabouts or they'll go all cuckoo.

I guess OMANI Ladies... Bahrain and Kuwait ladies are the most freely and independeT THAN ANY OTHER aRAB gIRLS

I guess OMANI Ladies... Bahrain and Kuwait ladies are the most freely and independeT THAN ANY OTHER aRAB gIRLS
i don't see that...if i got what u meant...

Hello there, :)

Thank you to you all!

Here I am with some questions for my essay again. The impression I have gained so far is that young women in Muscat normally can go to shopping malls and maybe cinemas, but they inform their parents before they go out, and sometimes the parents may object.

One of the questions (Thank you again for your help!!:star: ) I have now is whether it may be damaging to a girl's reputation if she goes out too often, for example, if she hangs around with female friends in some kind of café or mall everyday.
I don't know, but I've read some threads in the forum here, and my impression is that a woman who is out very often and seen by a neighbour (or sb else) all over again could suffer a loss of reputation. Am I correct with that?

2. You mentioned that Muscat, Bahraini and Kuwaiti ladies are the most liberated in the Arab Gulf area. Where are the differences to other Arab Gulf states? :think:

3. This is about the UAE now; however, it is very interesting for me, too, because I believe there are both differences as well as parallels between Oman and other Arab Gulf countries.
@ Fatamoo, you said that your Emirati cousins normally go out with their cousin-friends.

Are there also UAE girls who are allowed to go out with non-relative female friends, who are accompanied to malls by one of the girl's mother and who visit non-relative friends at home?

If I imagine that some girls are allowed to have non-relative friends and to meet with them outside school, while others are not given this right, then this might have an effect on classroom behaviour, for example, some kind of "division" into girls who have friends from inside their class (with whom they can bond outside the school), and those girls who have not this opportunity.

The situation in classrooms or university seminars might become quite tense because of this...:think:

And do girls in Muscat normally hang out with school friends or rather with cousins?

4. How do marriages happen in Oman?
I know that many marriages are arranged. However, for me, who has lived in two countries, in which arranged marriages are in a small minority, it is hard to know how parents can make it to find a partner for their daughter or son who matches their child's personality.
For example, if a mother has a look at a possible daughter-in-law, how can she find out what this girl's personality is like, whether the girl's/woman's attitudes and personality do not differ too much from the character and attitudes of her son?
The life a young woman lives may say a little about her, but sometimes it may not reveal aspects and opinions which could increase or reduce the chances of a happy marriage with a certain man.

Arranged marriage always sound like a huge adventure to me,:star: but I'm wondering how parents make it to find a man/woman whose deepest and strongest attitudes and characteristics match with the core of one's own child.

These are my questions for today.
Thank you again and Greetings from California to Oman and to everybody in this forum. :)

Morela

The reason why I said that they hang out with their cousin friends a lot is because most Omani/Emaratis have biiiig families so theres a higher probability that there are relatives in your classroom (as was DEFINITELY true in my case :p), but they can still be friends with people outside the family and stuff, as far as I know :)

I have mixed feelings about arranged marriages. I know an Indian Catholic from an arranged marriage and she told me that she is miserable in her marriage and divorce is out of the question in her culture. I feel so sorry for this delightful woman, but she is stuck in her culture and in a terrible marriage. So she just soldiers on anyway.

I see beautiful Omani women married to pipsqueak ugly men, and fat & ugly Omani women married to good looking Omani men, and I figure that those marriages must have been arranged by the family because mutual attraction would never have resulted in those matches.

But, as is well known, the West, in which arranged marriages are the exception and not the norm, has a high divorce rate.

So which way is better. . .freedom to choose a spouse or being forced to marry someone your family chose for you (whether you are attracted to him/her or not)?

As a Western man, I prefer the freedom to make my own choice of my own Queen. But it is in my culture to be free, hence my handle, "liberty".

But I am not criticizing marriages arranged by family. Within another sort of culture, I guess it works out okay.

Another problem with arranged marriages in Islamic culture is that they often are marriages between between 1st or 2nd cousins ("consanguine"). Over many generations that results in many infant deaths and deformities and a lower IQ amongst the general population. In the West, cousins rarely marry, and are legally prohibited from doing so.

Nice thread...

Well, am an Omani lady :) not that younge 24 yrs old :P

Anyways....
Lets C....

emm, comparing us with ur frnd in KSA have tramendous difference...
Girls in Oman have 90% freedom more than KSA girls...

Let me talk bout my self..

Surprisingly when I was younger... say between the age of 14-17 I used 2 go out every single day with my friends, even come back late, my mom nor my brothers would say a thing...

I was allowed 2 go & study abroad alone, was there for almost 3-4 years...

B4, I used 2 take permission frm my mom whenever I wanted 2 go out, if she says yes, its a yes & if she says no, its a no... I cant object...

But then, I changed my style :p
I no longer take permission, I only inform :)

So whenever I wanted 2 go out, I'd just go like, 2day am going out with my friends... she wont ask whom am going out with or what time I'd b back, but whe would ask where am I going.... lo0olz, but u can say 1 place & end up in a diff place....

Besides that...I have a curefew... I mean.. b4, I used 2 come back by midnight... now not anymore... now I shall b home by max 11 :(

Well, my mom's reason coz that now am grown up & am in the marriage age... & ppl wont like 2 propose 2 a girl whom always roaming out till late @ night...

U know, like they more care bout our reputation, as this part of the world, the girls reputation is a major thing.... she screws it, she F***ed :p

In other stuff....
My mom nor my bro have any words above mine in whatever personal stuff that concern me... Like I can work in wherever place I chose as long as its a respectfull place.... I spend my money that way I like, I dress the way I wish, yet as long as its respectfull....

I can travel alone, or I can even travel only with friends... my mom allows that... where I know some parents would never allow their daughters 2 travel alone or with ppl none other than family...

emmm, what else ?!!

Hello there, :)

Thank you to you all!

Here I am with some questions for my essay again. The impression I have gained so far is that young women in Muscat normally can go to shopping malls and maybe cinemas, but they inform their parents before they go out, and sometimes the parents may object.

One of the questions (Thank you again for your help!!:star: ) I have now is whether it may be damaging to a girl's reputation if she goes out too often, for example, if she hangs around with female friends in some kind of café or mall everyday.
I don't know, but I've read some threads in the forum here, and my impression is that a woman who is out very often and seen by a neighbour (or sb else) all over again could suffer a loss of reputation. Am I correct with that?
Are you kidding or you are serious?
Now true that Italy can't be compared to US [and thank God cause culturally speaking we are far superior] and that maybe my parents are lil bit conservative, but i've been living with them til i was 36 and I always had to tell them where i went til i was 18 and i chose to keep on telling them til the end cause for me it was a sign of respect.
And neighbours chat everywhere in the world about girls habits.




4. How do marriages happen in Oman?
I know that many marriages are arranged. However, for me, who has lived in two countries, in which arranged marriages are in a small minority, it is hard to know how parents can make it to find a partner for their daughter or son who matches their child's personality.
For example, if a mother has a look at a possible daughter-in-law, how can she find out what this girl's personality is like, whether the girl's/woman's attitudes and personality do not differ too much from the character and attitudes of her son?
The life a young woman lives may say a little about her, but sometimes it may not reveal aspects and opinions which could increase or reduce the chances of a happy marriage with a certain man.

Arranged marriage always sound like a huge adventure to me,:star: but I'm wondering how parents make it to find a man/woman whose deepest and strongest attitudes and characteristics match with the core of one's own child.
My mother combined marriages for her friends and they worked [well it was in the 60s though] : based on the fact that she knew their personalities she simply introduced them to each other.
Here anyway is different i think : choice is mainly based on tribes[though is not weird that a mother knows her child personality so it could happen] but maybe things will change after 20-30 years, who knows.

But on the other hand it is hard for me to imagine that an Omani girl (maybe aged 17) can just leave her house without saying anything to anybody and do whatever she likes; or that a young Omani woman can do so.
-I think boys can do that, but girls not

Geez, I can't leave my house in Arlington without saying anything to anybody...My wife would throw a fit! My son has to ask permission when he leaves and even when he's seventeen he's not going to leave without saying anything to anybody.

I'm not so sure I can do whatever I like either...I'll have to check with the boss...

Hello guys & girls,

Well, you have a very interesting discussion, but actually I have to write an essay about women in Oman. :)
I guess in many countries as well as in Oman none of the two genders can leave the house without at least informing one's family.:no:

When I was still living with my family in Brazil, my Mom would have gone nuts :angry: if I hadn't said anything about my whereabouts and same applies to my bro', though my Mom was always more worried about me (coz girls are attacked more often).

Anyway, what would you say are the main differences between the way Omani boys and Omani girls live?
How are the relationships between brothers and sisters? The article which I mentioned (which was about the UAE) created an image of girls being their brothers slaves, bossed around non-stop and having no freedom or attention of their parents.
What is your reaction to such statements?

Since it is about the UAE... may it be that there is a difference between Omani ladies and the UAE?

Greetings to everybody in here! :)

Difference between girls and boys in Oman:
Boys have more freedom than girls.
Boys can get away with a lot more stuff than girls.
Boys are generally taken care of by the family until they get a job, or something, girls are taken care of by the family until they get married.

I think that sums it up. :)

Nice thread...

as a half Bedouin omani guy...

Relations between (boys,girls) and (mom,dad) Differ from each part to another according to your Tribal traditions and social culture of the community where u live in.

some people in oman think that the further u r from the capital, the more strict your parents will be. and thats wrong

there are some parts of oman that are TOTALLY AWAY from the capital where girls leave their homes and mix with boys and feel very free to practice the total freedom (BUT: let your parents know where u r, at least!)

at the same time, there are parts of the Capital where extremely strict people live and both their sons and daughters are prisoners of the house XD

not all people are same

nowadays the Omani society is CHANGING SO FAST!!

we -in oman- are actually living in a Social Revolution!

Tribal terms are now being eraced... people are becoming more connected... girls are more free than before

but there is one rule in oman which still exists (Parents - Must - Know - Where - U - R) i guess thats a world wide rule!

Morela if you are still interested about knowing how the Girl's cituation was in HISTORY, then we can still help!

thank you for chosing oman for your research! ;)

4. How do marriages happen in Oman?
I know that many marriages are arranged. However, for me, who has lived in two countries, in which arranged marriages are in a small minority, it is hard to know how parents can make it to find a partner for their daughter or son who matches their child's personality.
For example, if a mother has a look at a possible daughter-in-law, how can she find out what this girl's personality is like, whether the girl's/woman's attitudes and personality do not differ too much from the character and attitudes of her son?
The life a young woman lives may say a little about her, but sometimes it may not reveal aspects and opinions which could increase or reduce the chances of a happy marriage with a certain man.

if you are asking about our CURRENT life...

Arranged marriages are almost gone!

i have seen No Aranged marriaged for mare than 10 years in oman!

actually every single person in my family chose his wife himself / chose her husband herself.

true love is found in a street we have called Love Road :p am JK about this part... but this road does exist!

Well, I hope one day I will make it to visit Oman! :)
Thank you for your interesting answers; and for certain my interest won't fade so soon. First of all, I'll have to get my essay done, but my fascination will persist! :yes:
And I guess my questions will never end.

How would you describe brother-sister relationships in Oman?

Would you say that there are differences in the family life of Omani families, if you compare them to Saudi families, for example? Saudi Arabia has much stricter rules on women, and I think this might reflect on the distribution of power within the households (eg bossy brothers and husbands)?
I hope I don't offend any KSA guy/girl here now! :inno:

And now I have a very embarrassing question, but I really don't know :shy: :) :

What do Omani houses look like? Is the furniture rather Arabic, with many carpets to sit on them, or Western? Do you have door-bells, or do people knock at the door or the window if they visit your house?

And who normally opens the door? The mother, the father, or somebody else?:think:

I know that the technological standard in Oman is high, but yet I believe that many things are different.

Would love to know how Omani houses look and can't get over the door-bell question; ...it is an exotic world for me. :)

Hi to everyone here! :)

First I would like to thank you for answering my questions; and I hope some or one of you will be able to help me with the questions I posted above. :inno:

And then,

I'd like to wish a HAPPY RAMADAN to all of you! :)

Have a wonderful and blessed month!

Morela

well speaking about myself and the way i was raised, i wore what i wanted my whole life my mom would complain here and there but it was okay

i know my limits my parents know i talk to guys my dad minds if it not school related my mom doesnt

i tell my mom where im going and doesnt matter when im coming back because she knows what i do

parents raised me as a normal person i guess

and as the years go by i know my own limits

Will according to my personal experience it’s like the ocean wave. Sometimes no one asks you where are you going, sometimes they ask you just to know where are you going and sometimes they ask you to open an investigation case. Being married or not so far it is the same system in the both house holders. Which is really cool for me cuz sometimes you don’t want someone to ask you a lot of questions, sometimes you want someone to care about you and know where you are heading. On other times you need someone to open an investigation case cuz you need someone to guide you and redirect your steps.

I think it's been 2 years and morela musta already written her essay :p
but I'm loving how these questionnaires went.

And yes in Oman it all depends on family... you are generally free to do what you wish by law... you're completely free (speaking of women in Oman)... but the main freedom controller is your family....and your family control your freedom according to society (speaking of women again... cuz men doing whatever they wish has no affect on their family's reputation... while a woman has... why that is I still don't know). some are strict and some are not. Usually the more educated ones are less strict in certain things such as marriages and studying opportunities.

but I believe all of this woulda been more useful 2 years ago :XD:... anyway...love the thread

As an American I am shocked to hear that we American women are of loose morals (blow jobs and such)...like this doesn't happen in other nations besides the West. Really...tsk tsk. Please get your facts straight member before condeming the lot of us. It just gives some members here fuel to add to the fire of hating my country.

As an American I remember growing up having to tell my parents where I was going (same as for my brother and sister). And when I left home my mother still likes to know if I am still doing ok even though I live two states away (shock).

As an American woman I can walk around freely without fear of being harmed in most places I visit. (shock).

As an American woman I have pride and dignity regarding my body and don't sleep around or give blow jobs to anyone (shock shock).............and know of many American women who are the same way (shocker, gasp!)

And as far as Amo's comment about their culture being superior to America's no country is superior than another when it comes to culture. Everyone adds their own flavor to the mix and I can proudly say we have welcomed many people from many nations to live here and THAT is what makes America GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hmm shinoda r u from the interior ???:think:

ROFL :D

Yes, I'm from the Interior! :)