Is this still common in Oman, that the family sets some conditions for the son/daughter to marry?

They can choose a spouse only from certain families/tribes?

^^i guess it's still there unfortunately :(
people still have these ignorant ideas

eventually the ignorant people will die out and this new generation will be marrying for love than arranged

some new generations are still carrying these stupid ideas
but they're definately less than before thank god :)

Thank God for that. Some don't have much choice, but these are the ones who don't leave the house too much. I think they need to get out more often and see whats out there....beside their cousins.

Yep, definitely still exists in my family. Personally, lately I'm beginning to think that it's not that big of an issue. You know what sort of people you're allowed to marry, just steer clear of those who come from a tribe who your family will never accept.

Yes they r still there & love not every thing this is why this still exists!!
Don't be so sure about the new generations belives cauz those stuff can not be excuted easily from our society in all Arab countries & western countries who have the same ideas but in a different way....

It's still there...some ( specially girls ) jus keep waiting for someone to propose...I don't know, I can't imagine myself marrying someone who I know nothing about, or..not even "like"...and after marriage...we'd ask eachother about our likes and dislikes >.> I'm not saying there should be a love story and all that...but, at least know him lol.

And, many parents..make it sound like business...like, the man's family, the nationality as well as the financial issues( which is slightly important ), but, many make it the main reason for marriage, and even forget what marriage is really all about.

Yes, it is still there and many families still reject those who come from tribals that donsn't match their or even from some lower level.

It is impoartant for a girl to marry someone who is from a good family, but she should get to know him and it should be up to her and not her parents to decide who she should marry.

im sorry to call this tribal marrying isssue stupid but i do think it is.. plus i think it's also part of ppl being rasist ..its all over in the gulf .. but come on ..what's the big deal ?
i mean if 2 ppl love each other but each is froma differnt tribe .. let them get married so what .. i duno .. it might be for the best in the end .. but i still think it's stupid .. my family has it .. but im planning to marru some1 that's not arab.. i dun wanna marry an arab.. a eroupen or an amarican muslim .. i just need change ! >> ohh ya im just dreaming..

Hey, dont give up on an arab man. there are more and more that are around who have western thinking. I for one, was raised in the USA, but still arab with western ideas on marriage. so.. they are here.. keep looking.

I think that generally, a family that is of a certain position in society would not want to mix with a tribe that is "inferior" to them.
I'm not talking about class or money, but more like how some tribe names are somehow looked down upon while others are seen as "good" tribes.

From what I understand, the reasons why some tribes are unacceptable, is due to either historical reasons, political reasons, or just pure racism.

Basically, just as how we all look for someone who is our equal in many ways, one thing that the older generation urges us to consider is whether or not the tribe they come from is of a social standing similar to yours.

I don't think that a name should make such a huge difference, after all, what's in a name? However, I think that most people just don't want to be disrespectful towards their parents or elders, and would rather just follow the rules.

You are right in everything you said. Unfortunatelly, tridal name is important to the parents and its a shame that one must leave the one they love to marry someone who comes from a "better" family just to satisfy their parents and spare them the gossip.

However, parents are more strict on the girls & not the guys

Another area where the guys have the upper hand

True. Guys can get away with having a bad reputation such as " playboy" but a girl labeled as that...OUCH! I know it unfair..but that is the current situation.

However, parents are more strict on the girls & not the guys

Another area where the guys have the upper hand
True, they are a lot tougher when it comes to who the girl marries. That is because the kids take the same tribe name as the father. They don't want their grandchildren to have a tribe name that they find unacceptable.

4 the most part of it yeah it obviously still exists in oman, however more & more ppl r becoming more accepting.

From what I understand, the reasons why some tribes are unacceptable, is due to either historical reasons, political reasons, or just pure racism.

historical or political or wutever, it shouldnt make a difference... bcuz if ur gonna label a whole tribe due 2 a "historical" or "political" reason thn tht would still be considered racist.. bcuz @ the end of the day not every 1's the same... 4 example some families might not accept ppl from certain tribes bcuz these tribes r thought 2 have been "slaves" years ago...

1. so wut if they used 2 be slaves? y should it matter? its not like they'r slaves now, & even if the family does have tht history, do they think tht they chose 2 be slaves willingly?! & besides, ppl who comes from "slaved" tribes may be respected, working ppl in the community... they could be perfect in every other y, so y should their tribal history matter?

2. do any of these ppl think of wut these tribes represented b4 they were forced in2 slavery? some tribes may have been the richest of the rich, rulers & businessmen running very successful countries, they could have been part of the "high class" society... y dont ppl think abt tht?

3. if there were slaves thn there must've been ppl who would've been their "masters"... so if we'r assuming tht certain tribes were forced in2 slavery, tht would mean tht most of the other tribes were the 1s commiting these actions.... if tht's the case thn who's worse: the slaves r those forcing ppl in2 slavery?

sorry i got carried away but was just trying 2 give an example of the pathetic reasons ppl have 4 accepting/rejecting ppl with a certain surname & 2 show the ignorance behind it all

Parents do have a good reason to have thier daughters marry to a good and wealthy family. The majority of good and wealthy guys that I know come from very wealthy family from Oman...you know who i am talking about. Anyway... they may seem good and nice on the outside, but are so shallow, womanizers and sexist that i cut my visit short so that I can go home and throw up.

Parents do have a good reason to have thier daughters marry to a good and wealthy family. The majority of good and wealthy guys that I know come from very wealthy family from Oman...you know who i am talking about. Anyway... they may seem good and nice on the outside, but are so shallow, womanizers and sexist that i cut my visit short so that I can go home and throw up.

ok u c wut u just did there? tht would be considered racist :os i mean they'r not ALL "shallow sexist womanizers"... u gotta give ppl a chance :shy:

.. it's fair n square!!

historical or political or wutever, it shouldnt make a difference... bcuz if ur gonna label a whole tribe due 2 a "historical" or "political" reason thn tht would still be considered racist.. bcuz @ the end of the day not every 1's the same... 4 example some families might not accept ppl from certain tribes bcuz these tribes r thought 2 have been "slaves" years ago...

I agree that it's not really fair to reject someone for those reasons, but then again, a girl cannot marry without her parents' consent (mainly her father's), and if he refuses someone due to that reason, she's just going to have to accept it. The only alternative is to go and have the court marry her off, but then that would damage her relationship with her father, and there would be a lot of friction between him and the son-in-law/son-in-law's family.

I think that generally, our generation is a lot less close minded/racist, so hopefully our children at least will be able to marry who they please. For now, I guess we just have to play along with our parents and hope we find someone who is everything we want, and comes from a family they deem acceptable.

Excuse me, but what i said is not racist. I was mearly talking about the guys "I KNOW" I did not say that all of them are that way, only the guys i know. I know many guys who are genuine and nice and a pleasure to be with and don't spend the entire evening eyeing every woman that walks by.

Its not up to me to give them a chance. I've known them for a very long time and thats the way they are. period. If they act like "pigs" then its their choice to act like that. I did not force them.

Excuse me, but what i said is not racist. I was mearly talking about the guys "I KNOW" I did not say that all of them are that way, only the guys i know. I know many guys who are genuine and nice and a pleasure to be with and don't spend the entire evening eyeing every woman that walks by.

Its not up to me to give them a chance. I've known them for a very long time and thats the way they are. period. If they act like "pigs" then its their choice to act like that. I did not force them.

yikes.. ok! take a chill pill.... sorry, i didnt mean anything personal by my comment, was just simply expressing an opinion :os so yeah... relax... wasnt attacking u or anything :shy:

Oh no..its ok. your opinions are well taken. Thanks.

Don't have a chill pill, but i guess an ice cube will do.

I think Tribal issues when it comes to marriage are Retarded and if the childrent accept it then I'm sorry to say it but they have no spine , and are equally retarded. Note that these issues run in my family as well but do i have to accept it? no way.

I think that as human beings you HAVE A CHOICE..and u don't have to succumb to your parents every desire. Break free.. and force them to change their minds..its your happiness in the end , not theirs.

I think Tribal issues when it comes to marriage are Retarded and if the childrent accept it then I'm sorry to say it but they have no spine , and are equally retarded. Note that these issues run in my family as well but do i have to accept it? no way.

I think that as human beings you HAVE A CHOICE..and u don't have to succumb to your parents every desire. Break free.. and force them to change their minds..its your happiness in the end , not theirs.

NaBHaN I agree with you...The descision for marriage is entirely up to you...U r the one that will marry the person not your parents...u will be the one that will be living with this person 24/7 not ur parents...Ur parents are living their lives...now its ur turn to live and experience ur own...I can understand the fear of not following ur parents wishes...but they will get over it...

yes listen 2 bella! she's a parent herself (right? :think:)

This topic proves that we have so many teenagers in the forum. :)

yes listen 2 bella! she's a parent herself (right? :think:)


lol...thanx Miss G...Yes I am a parent...my kids will have their free will to marry who ever they wish...

lol...thanx Miss G...Yes I am a parent...my kids will have their free will to marry who ever they wish...

Can they marry Prostitutes or can they be homosexual?

Can they marry Prostitutes or can they be homosexual?

this thread specifically talks abt "tribes", not types of jobs or sexual statuses... unless ur gonna tell me u know a tribe where every1 works as a prostitute &/or is homosexual... :bored:

Can they marry Prostitutes or can they be homosexual?

Max Payne u can be a real Payne in the *****...:D although u do have a sense of humour

this thread specifically talks abt "tribes", not types of jobs or sexual statuses... unless ur gonna tell me u know a tribe where every1 works as a prostitute &/or is homosexual... :bored:

Well.. ok tribal issue. Will you allow your daughter to marry a Bedoon (person with no passport)? OR worse an australian who lives in australia.

I know who I am and people know who they are. If you are pleased and honoured by belonging to a certain tribe, then why do you care. In your mind you will always be better than the rest so why would you be mad about it. The second party is the loser not you. I am proud of who I am and I know who deserve the honour to be part of my family. The rest are either friends or people who I don't know.

Anyway, whenever a tribal issue is discussed, you all turn to the emotional status and everybody knows you cannot discuss a matter with an emotionally charged person.

Marriage in particular has so many dimensions, tribal issue is only a cover to people's true reasons.

IMHO, whoever doesn't include tribal issues in making marriage decisions is a retard.

I'll stop here and you kids can discuss it as much as you want.

Well.. ok tribal issue. Will you allow your daughter to marry a Bedoon (person with no passport)? OR worse an australian who lives in australia.

I know who I am and people know who they are. If you are pleased and honoured by belonging to a certain tribe, then why do you care. In your mind you will always be better than the rest so why would you be mad about it. The second party is the loser not you. I am proud of who I am and I know who deserve the honour to be part of my family. The rest are either friends or people who I don't know.

Anyway, whenever a tribal issue is discussed, you all turn to the emotional status and everybody knows you cannot discuss a matter with an emotionally charged person.

Marriage in particular has so many dimensions, tribal issue is only a cover to people's true reasons.

IMHO, whoever doesn't include tribal issues in making marriage decisions is a retard.

I'll stop here and you kids can discuss it as much as you want.

im sooooo not following! WHAT?! :eh:

Well.. ok tribal issue. Will you allow your daughter to marry a Bedoon (person with no passport)? OR worse an australian who lives in australia.

I'll stop here and you kids can discuss it as much as you want.

I don't think you understood the topic..he's talking about TRIBES not nationalities. Like lets say a Baluchi guy wanting to marry a err..Lawati girl..and so on (assuming of course that u're omani and would understand those tribes). If you accept that and want it in your and your family's life then good for you..live under a rock for all i care but I assure you the majority are NOT happy about it and sooner or later people will break free from it. People are becomming less traditional every day anyways. :cutewink:

maybe we need 2 but down a dictionary definition of the word tribe :think: would tht help u Max?....

That's why some guys would be better off marying a non-Khaleeji

Miss_G and Nabhan, as I said previously, I will not enter a tribal discussion in this forum. Such issues need more than a keyboard and a mouse to give a precise opinion.

You two are taking the issue from one dimension and as I said before tribal issues take many dimensions. I will not discuss them nor explain what I mean, but maybe you will learn with time, the difference between the said reason and the true reason. There are things that are hidden and I don't expect you to know them.

I am out of tribal discussions because they don't suit me.

As I said before, I am all for the couple in love to marry eachother...they must know what they are getting themselves into but that will quickly disappear when they have children and take them to their grandparents.

"7asab" & "nasab" is important factor in marraige, it's a kind of a quality factor. In the market you can find many products with different qualities, so it's up to the person to select which product he/she wants. In the Quran it's stated that Allah created people in different nations and tribes.

And we can't blame the parents for wanting the best for their kids.

And as ToomuchaT said it's fair and square.

The world is Changing we send our single ladies to study Either in Boarding within... Or Abroad and their they meet different boys eventually they get together well and seal stamp within... then tell me where the tribalism will block such strong bond which was already made during that period.. I guess that is Over ladies will marry who ever they wants and parents cant do anything...:o

well i didnt read most of the posts.. but it still exists whether u like it or not and each family got the freedom to refuse any guy who propose! eventhu the reason was the guy's surname.. and it still exists in my family. its part of some tribes culture n believe.. and if ur not from that specific tribe, then u have no right to call it stupid.. thanx

Well.. ok tribal issue. Will you allow your daughter to marry a Bedoon (person with no passport)?
In Oman, we don't have Bedoon....:bored: ....

well i didnt read most of the posts.. but it still exists whether u like it or not and each family got the freedom to refuse any guy who propose! eventhu the reason was the guy's surname.. and it still exists in my family. its part of some tribes culture n believe.. and if ur not from that specific tribe, then u have no right to call it stupid.. thanx
We ave the full right to say that is stupid and very stupid...because our religion didn't told us to look to the man's tribe and decide....it is stupid

We must look to the man himself and his family and whether he is the right man for our daughter by looking to the one's religion and morals...
These are stupid ideas and (tribes culture n believe) and it is not even culture....by that they go against the word of Allah...IT IS STUPID...:lift:

"7asab" & "nasab" is important factor in marraige, it's a kind of a quality factor. In the market you can find many products with different qualities, so it's up to the person to select which product he/she wants. In the Quran it's stated that Allah created people in different nations and tribes.

And we can't blame the parents for wanting the best for their kids.

And as ToomuchaT said it's fair and square.
but what about those who do that to some other tribes that has nasab and 7asab (as u said) but they refuse just because there used to be some stupid argument in the ancient past and cases are known like that....Is not that stupid???

The point is not marriage as a thing...it is the concept behind this stupid looking at a human....looking to the tribes as a measure for a human status and morals....People, till now, use tribes to distinguish people and disgrace them....:os ....

I am sorry to say but most of the Omanis still are too bothered about the tribe of the person their son/daughter would marry. I think this is a sign of ignorance that Omanis suffer from. This does not mean I think that parents should not play any role when it comes to marriage, but atleast not based on senseless criterias.

Ichigo, Scream as much as u want that its stupid.. i don't care and nor people who think my way would care... a5ar zaman i let my tribe daughters marry whomever guy! n those who are anti-tribals in everything just feel they're missing something thats why they keep being against it etc..

.. i have so many things to say.. n im direct person which might hurt some ppl so i will keep things go smooth till the break point lol.

.. maybe some ppl think abt marriage as wife n husband .. but never think abt something called kids!!

.. always think that ur kids will grow up n will or will not appreciate the situation u brought them in! .. the same as if u give them a good name or a bad name!!

Ichigo, Scream as much as u want that its stupid.. i don't care and nor people who think my way would care... a5ar zaman i let my tribe daughters marry whomever guy! n those who are anti-tribals in everything just feel they're missing something thats why they keep being against it etc..
.....:bored: ..........
so u r a racist (in a tribal sense) or what???

^^ probably !! u got a problem with that?

originally posted by STING
I am sorry to say but most of the Omanis still are too bothered about the tribe of the person their son/daughter would marry. I think this is a sign of ignorance that Omanis suffer from. This does not mean I think that parents should not play any role when it comes to marriage, but atleast not based on senseless criterias.
exactly..

but what if the parents didn't get over you marrying someone they didn't want you to?

would you risk losing your family over your husband??

i mean..your family will always be there for you but the husband..well,you don't know..what if you got divorced?

what would you do then?

some families will never accept you back..it's like you are dead to them :(

this whole thing is so complicated.. :angry:

Well..5alfanoo, to me..I dont think my family would be ok with me marrying a poor indian, or a guy who works as a driver or wtever...I, myself, won't do it..not because I don't respect ppl like that..but It's obvious that it's no good for me, but most of us are talking about the small difference...wouldnt u be against it too? like, if the guy comes from a family who is from a lower class, but he's intellectual and made something out of himself...what do u think? would u let ur sis marry him?

^^ probably !! u got a problem with that?
noooooooo, happy racism eve...:hbd: ...:hbd:

It still exists in my family like many others. My advice, dont get involved or think of someone your parents and family wont aprove of and save everyone time and energy.

:cutesmile

like, if the guy comes from a family who is from a lower class, but he's intellectual and made something out of himself...what do u think? would u let ur sis marry him?

Its not about Lower class tribe or higher class tribe...its not abt Rich or Poor too... its about the tribal roots! and im talkin about oman.. this is soooo bloody important in those family's who sticked to the culture.. no matter wut the guy is.. the most successful omani or wutever.. tribes play a role here specifically in marrige issues..

U mean like the name of the family ...etc?

The Name of the Family is a Name of the Family.. some people these dayz try to have a better surname by changing their tribe.. that wont make a difference becuz its known by all that they changed it and its known also wut tribe they originally belong to.. therefore It is the tribe and Who originally belongs to it! not new memebers.. but who inhereted the surname since ever.

exactly..

but what if the parents didn't get over you marrying someone they didn't want you to?

would you risk losing your family over your husband??

i mean..your family will always be there for you but the husband..well,you don't know..what if you got divorced?

what would you do then?

some families will never accept you back..it's like you are dead to them :(

this whole thing is so complicated.. :angry:

@ the end ur family will accept you back....you are their child, their blood, carry their name...I would say that if you didnt do anything wrong against in terms of religion...well than they will get over it....use religion and faith to gain them back....and if you have any kids, well let me guarrantee you that they would be wanting to get close to them...grandchildren are a parents weakness....

My family is all about tribes (not last names), but about their roots and all that, and it depends on the family too. Not all families are like that.

We ave the full right to say that is stupid and very stupid...because our religion didn't told us to look to the man's tribe and decide....it is stupid

We must look to the man himself and his family and whether he is the right man for our daughter by looking to the one's religion and morals...
These are stupid ideas and (tribes culture n believe) and it is not even culture....by that they go against the word of Allah...IT IS STUPID...:lift:

I agree with you. In response to 5alfanooh, when culture and roots becomes more important than religion (Islam absolutely in no way tells to stick to our 'roots'), then you have a serious problem.

Marrying into the same tribe is also a form of security. Same tribe means you usually know the family, etc. And also the habits and traditions are the same. Theres less chance of conflict in that respect. So some would say its safer.

But who wants to live a life without taking risks? Living a life predetermined? Its boring. ;)

5alfanooh, what does your religion say about marriage? Lets say, I nice Muslim who is well respected by all comes and asks to marry your daughter or sister, will you refuse only because his tribe is not of your liking? Since when did we start judging people based on their tribe? Isn't this Jahliya?

Well, Everyone got his own point of view and im a proud muslim and i stick to what it tought us, but it didnt ask us that u MUST accept any good man come n propose! U got a choice! So i am FREE to Accept or Reject anyone propose for my daughters or sisters!!! does that make sense now?

This is getting really interesting!! :)
Some tribes don't want a really different mixture of blood, so, they choose from the same tribe!

In the market you can find many products with different qualities, so it's up to the person to select which product he/she wants..

Its ideas like this that create weak social structures; ideas like racism and discrmination.. and a lot of unhappy people.

I agree with Nabhan and Ichigo 100%. And I like what PT said. We are muslims before Omanis/Arabs whatever else we are. When did our culture and traditions become more important than our religion? And before anyone cites that 7adith about 7asab and nasab, all the interpretations I read of it (plus the way it was explained to me in school) don't support your twisted interpretation. I'm convinced for 2 reasons:

1. I don't believe that a religion that always teaches equality will blantantly come out and say hey if you're looking for a woman to marry, pick the one bint il-7asab wa al-nasab (as you understand it) over other factors.

2. The 7adith goes on to say pick the woman who's most pious/religious so I think that makes the purpose of that 7adith very clear.

And we can't blame the parents for wanting the best for their kids.

And by "best" you mean that obviously one tribe's better than another. May I ask you (not just IceTea but all those who think the same) then, will you accept that there are people out there who might refuse to let their kids marry yours because their tribe is "better" than yours? Cuz I assure you there are people out there who won't agree that your tribe's the best. Anyway does anyone have a list of tribes in order of superiority :bored: Please provide copies.

According to Islam, the only way to measure who's good, better and best is by taqwa.

I and others know that there are some people who belong to certain, well-known BIG tribes but are the descendents of so-called slaves. What do you have to say about them?

Say there are 2 men who've come to propose to your daughter: Guy number 1 is the son of Sheikh fulan, his father's a great man and very highly regarded in society. But this son is not that responsible, is only interested in going out drinking and partying all the time (but shows up for Friday prayers with his father :rolleyes:) and has no ambition or direction in life. And unlike his father, he doesn't really have much respect for people cuz he thinks he's better. He gets by using his father's name. Note: these people aren't necessarily rich or whatever. (These people really do exist, in abundance in fact)

Guy number 2 is pious, educated, simple, respectful, down to earth and has a good job where he's doing very well. But...he great-great-grandfather was enslaved and now ignorant people call this entire family "slaves". Note: these people aren't necessarily poor. Some, in fact, are considered amongst the wealthy in Oman.

Which would you go for? A distant relative was faced with this scenario. Some ignorant members of my family said they would never accept guy number 2 into the family. They advised her guy number 1 was a better choice. What about his drinking problem, you ask. They said once they're married she should encourage him to stop the drinking and crazy lifestyle. Funny...I don't recall them discussing where a 35-year-old could be taught respect :bored:

Its ideas like this that create weak social structures; ideas like racism and discrmination.. and a lot of unhappy people.

I don't think it create anything nigma and it's not about racism or discrimination. You as a girl have a certain criterias when it comes to getting marraid, or are you just going to agree to any guy proposing to you, for example would you agree to marry a guy from a family called "zu6oo6 or who are called '3ajar in some places"?

As ToomuchaT said marraige is not for few days or for sexual pleasure but a life time where there could be kids and you need to plant your seeds in a good environment not just any place.

I have a question, if I may ask. How many times was this discussed in this forum and where there any different responses than the two groups that we have in here? The true muslims who only consider the person's religion group and the racist, stupid and retard people who include other factors.

1. I don't believe that a religion that always teaches equality will blantantly come out and say hey if you're looking for a woman to marry, pick the one bint il-7asab wa al-nasab (as you understand it) over other factors.

2. The 7adith goes on to say pick the woman who's most pious/religious so I think that makes the purpose of that 7adith very clear.

If you have all the criteria stated in the Hadith that would be better ofcourse, otherwise yes the hadith states to go for religious and no argue about that. But the bint il-7asab wa al-nasab mentioned in the hadith so it means it's a factor to consider while marrying.


Which would you go for?

You don't have to go for any of them if you are not convinced.

If you ask me that I agree with it or not, I would say I wont, coz its not fair and Islam is all about fairness

if you ask me if I will marry someone who my family wouldnt approve, I would say No. I cant afford to loose my family and I know doing something like that would mean losing them or at least losing thier trust.

These issues are not black and white.. the complication of 1000 years of tribal lifestyle in Oman is still there.. not because tribes now live close to each other, you would say lets remove all the other issues that hanged between them..

I am sure, in the comming future .. maybe 20 or 50 years ahead .. these ideas wouldnt be as present as they are today .. like they are less present then they were yesterday..

for example would you agree to marry a guy from a family called "zu6oo6 or who are called '3ajar in some places"?



Errr.... I really don't care waht his name is or where he's from. I care about things that really matter like his honesty, integrity, morals, religion...

Oh how small minded I must be :rolleyes:

I am sure, in the comming future .. maybe 20 or 50 years ahead .. these ideas wouldnt be as present as they are today .. like they are less present then they were yesterday..

and i hope it wont be less presented in future.. i wish it remain and as far as im concern, it wont be less presented in my family and some other tribes.

Ok nigma good for you and mabrook.

5alfanooh, wether you like it or not .. it could happen to your family .. ofcourse you have teh choice to resist it, but if it happened frequently .. would you be strong?

^ it wont happen as long as im alive inshallah... and i will teach the next generation to stick to the traditions and that they believe in it they teach their sons n daughters.. and life goes on..

As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing in a name, it's merely a title. However, the parents have different ideas and thoughts regarding this which are very similar to Ice Tea's views. Though it's changing and men from various tribes are being "accepted".

^ it wont happen as long as im alive inshallah... and i will teach the next generation to stick to the traditions and that they believe in it they teach their sons n daughters.. and life goes on..

That's Very sad indeed..and I have a feeling though that you wont succeed.

I disagree with the traditional policy....

buy the merchendise according to its name then... and let others buy it for quality.. then see which is better...

Well, Everyone got his own point of view and im a proud muslim and i stick to what it tought us, but it didnt ask us that u MUST accept any good man come n propose! U got a choice! So i am FREE to Accept or Reject anyone propose for my daughters or sisters!!! does that make sense now?

Of course you are free to have your say but the most important say is of the girl you see. And again, based on WHAT will you have your say? Based on senseless tribe systems?

I do not want to be harsh but its really ironic to have such feelings today. Why are people so proud of their tribes? What are their achievements? Only because they owned large farms before? Lets be realistic.

I do not want to be harsh but its really ironic to have such feelings today. Why are people so proud of their tribes? What are their achievements? Only because they owned large farms before? Lets be realistic.

Why are the arabs proud of their ethnicity then?

Max Payne Arabs of today are the last people to be proud of their ethinicity. They are proud of things that have lost and forgotten. Did you read anything about what the "great" Saudis have been writting about Hezbollah? I really doubt if they are Arabs at all.

STING, fair answer. Thanks.

its called arrogancy

and find still believing in tribes being the most pathetic thing. Sure i don't come from a tribe but if i was part of one i wouldn't give a rat's *** about it.

its called arrogancy

and find still believing in tribes being the most pathetic thing. Sure i don't come from a tribe but if i was part of one i wouldn't give a rat's *** about it.

Please excuse my arrogance, but what did you mean when you said you don't come from a tribe.

Yeah it still exists, in my family and in lots of families. I don't really care though, it's not a thing I get worked up about anymore like I used to :p. I used to go around saying that I would never ever get married to someone from my tribe, or in the same family or whatever, because that's what my family insisted on. But then I realized that marrying someone out of spite of the tradition is almost as (or maybe just as) bad as marrying within specific tribes for tradition's sake only.

So what if I'm supposed to marry out of a selected group of people? Makes life a lot easier. It helps with the process of elimination :p

^^in other words... limits your choices.

Guys lets be pratical. Can anybody tell me what the hell a tribe is supposed to mean? It should not mean more than just a background. Tribes should not have any role to play in issues such as marriage.

originally posted by arabian bella
@ the end ur family will accept you back....you are their child, their blood, carry their name...I would say that if you didnt do anything wrong against in terms of religion...well than they will get over it....use religion and faith to gain them back....and if you have any kids, well let me guarrantee you that they would be wanting to get close to them...grandchildren are a parents weakness....

yes they are..but i know ppl who won't talk to their kids just bcuz they married someone they didn't agree on..some ppl are just heartless :(

sadly my family still have this.. :(

seriously..oman has this huge thing when it comes to tribes..it's just SICK!! :bored:

what does someone from a high level tribe have others don't? an extra leg or a &%$#@#$%!?# :o :mmhmm:

i guess the level of stupidity is higher than normal (so called lower) tribes :mmhmm:

The system of tribes originates from the Hindu Religion in India just as many of the other Preislamic (Jahaliya) traditions. In India some tribes are considered to be lower than the others. I guess some people still are proud of their Hindu traditions!

Next thing we know we will have a bunch burying the new born baby girls :os

What am I going to find in other tribes that I won't find in the ones my family approve of? IF IF IF every single one of the men in my tribes are bad and drink and treat women badly and all that, then I would obviously marry someone else, but why cause friction just to show people that I'm not racist?
I know I'm not a racist I don't have to prove it by marrying someone out of my tribe, I see that as being patronizing and a bit condescending.

originally posted by STING
Guys lets be pratical. Can anybody tell me what the hell a tribe is supposed to mean? It should not mean more than just a background. Tribes should not have any role to play in issues such as marriage.

i guess the difference is the traditions they have since oman has ppl with different backgrounds..for example if you married someone with an african background they might have some african traditions..that arabs might not be able to cope with..same with ppl with iranian,indian etc..

i personally like having different backgrounds in one family..kinda exciting :cool:

What am I going to find in other tribes that I won't find in the ones my family approve of? IF IF IF every single one of the men in my tribes are bad and drink and treat women badly and all that, then I would obviously marry someone else, but why cause friction just to show people that I'm not racist?
I know I'm not a racist I don't have to prove it by marrying someone out of my tribe, I see that as being patronizing and a bit condescending.
Say that when you fall for someone out of your tribe...

Let's just hope it won't be another Romeo and Juliet story :p

but it's not as easy as you mention... love is not controlable... so if you happen to have fallen for someone out there before you know it... you'll know where the problem lies.

i guess the difference is the traditions they have since oman has ppl with different backgrounds..for example if you married someone with an african background they might have some african traditions..that arabs might not be able to cope with..same with ppl with iranian,indian etc..

i personally like having different backgrounds in one family..kinda exciting :cool:

I dont think we are talking about the backgrounds such as Balushis, Lawatias, Dhofaris, Zanzibaris or Arabs in here. The issue is of tribes within the backgrounds.

^^in other words... limits your choices.
True, but what if there are a lot of decent guys who come from families/tribes that your family finds acceptable? Why not just go for one of them?

Why should you start a huge fight over something that isn't worth fighting over?

I don't think it's worth jeopardizing your relationship with your family over something like this.

okay.. i can see lots of members accepts to marry zu6oo6 wa biyasrah .. good for them.

.. by that they accepts for kids to be called son/daughter of zu6yiaah/ zu6i or son of biysrah/baiysar!!

.. i think i would accept to get a fixed lady by my family than I fix a bad history for my kids!!

2. The 7adith goes on to say pick the woman who's most pious/religious so I think that makes the purpose of that 7adith very clear.


.. unfortunately those with good religion doesnt exist anymore.. so the nasab n 7asab rules!!:hyper:

.. third post .. lol

.. and i forgot to say that .. we now take by the islamic teachings but we dont take them when we talk abt other issues .. such as hijab!! :D

.. thnx :)

Say that when you fall for someone out of your tribe...

Let's just hope it won't be another Romeo and Juliet story :p

but it's not as easy as you mention... love is not controlable... so if you happen to have fallen for someone out there before you know it... you'll know where the problem lies.
Why would you even fall for someone who was from a tribe your family would never accept? I mean, we all know what our families expect from us, and in order to prevent a lot of trouble, just stay away from guys who you know you can never marry. I mean, why put yourself in a position where you might fall for the person? Just distance yourself and play it safe.

That's how I think anyway.

I think everyone has the right to choose their spouse according to their preferences regardless of their family's...
it's not the point of jeopardising the family... that's not the purpose... but it's the freedom of choice. Your family may have a dozen guys who're good... and they can be the best in the world... but if you don't want them... you don't want them. It's you who'll be living the rest of your life with him, not your family.

surely one shouldn't make an issue until the time comes anyway. In the end everyone chooses his or her own way.

Libby:... you sound as if Love is just too predictable :p

ToomuchaT, which tribes would you allow your daughters or sisters to marry in?

okay.. i can see lots of members accepts to marry zu6oo6 wa biyasrah .. good for them.

.. by that they accepts for kids to be called son/daughter of zu6yiaah/ zu6i or son of biysrah/baiysar!!

.. i think i would accept to get a fixed lady by my family than I fix a bad history for my kids!!
My male relatives think the same way.

When I was arguing with them about this, I was told that marrying someone who is as you mentioned above, would cause my kids to have an inferiority complex, and they think that I shouldn't do that to my kids. I shouldn't want them to feel inferior or be bullied.

I never felt that kids who came from these sort of tribes were looked down at, but then I wouldn't know. You'd have to ask someone who belonged to the tribes mentioned.

Please excuse my arrogance, but what did you mean when you said you don't come from a tribe.

Exactly what it means. I don't come from any tribe since I'm an Egyptian.

Oh my god. This is freaking me out. Does anybody has sisters who were buried once born in the desert because of their gender!?! :(

I think everyone has the right to choose their spouse according to their preferences regardless of their family's...
it's not the point of jeopardising the family... that's not the purpose... but it's the freedom of choice. Your family may have a dozen guys who're good... and they can be the best in the world... but if you don't want them... you don't want them. It's you who'll be living the rest of your life with him, not your family.

surely one shouldn't make an issue until the time comes anyway. In the end everyone chooses his or her own way.

Libby:... you sound as if Love is just too predictable :p

You still have the freedom of choice, after eliminating a few people. I mean, think of it, there are probably hundreds of guys out there who are acceptable to both you and your family. It's not difficult to find one.

Love is controllable, as long as you take the necessary precautions.

Exactly what it means. I don't come from any tribe since I'm an Egyptian.

And that's why I don't enter tribal discussions. How ignorant can a person be?

it is obvious that the gulf arabs are the people who still believe that tribes define who you are. I totally resent that.

Since I am a male, thus my kids will have my surname so my family should not be bothered about my choice

Should they be worried, I can marry another of their choice just to please them & bless them with children of a finer breed, however I can never think of marrying my cousisn since I think of them as sisters

It is a great feeling to be a man in this society :)

ToomuchaT, which tribes would you allow your daughters or sisters to marry in?

bro StinG, i think if u asked me which tribes i wouldnt allow my daughters/sisters to marry from would be easy to answer!

.. i know some tribes that r fishing lol.. but i dont like to name them!!

.. anyway, my sisters n most of the girls who come from my region r aware of this issue n themselves wouldnt marry a fishing tribe guy lol.

.. im as Max Payne.. i dont like to discuss such issues in forums coz lots of ppl r not aware of many termenlogies n other point of views!

.. n i did discuss this before n been entitled with different racism terms

Oh my god. This is freaking me out. Does anybody has sisters who were buried once born in the desert because of their gender!?! :(

Why do you think everyone who's proud about his tribe is Jaahili or preislamic?

.. anyway.. lets concentrate on Lebanon and pray that Alah helps Saiyd Hasan Nasralah to defeat the enemy of islam.

I don't come from any tribe since I'm an Egyptian.

then do u feel something is missing on u cuz u dont have a tribe? thats why you're against it?

no its not that, my only thing against tribes is the fact that a religion comes in and breaks all the boundaries between the people uniting them no matter what tribe, nation, race, gender, class or age.. I'm just basically against secularizing everything that Islam built and tribes is one of them.

I would like to share this story of al-sayyida zainab bint ja7sh, who later on became the prophets wife.. anyways it will satisfy both parties. in fact it will satisfy the Oppositions more. I believe this story is about wut we're talkin about..

http://www.passia.org/meetings/rsunit/Articles/25-03-2005-Tantawi-3.htm

and if anyone can translate it for those who cant read arabic would be nice of them..

thanx

i didnt read all the posts coz they were too long.. but ..

i think that a person who's doing nothing n just sitting n blabring about his trible or his history r just plane loseres ! this is such a quality that only exisitied b4 islam came a long in the jaheleya phase.. then when islam came it said that all people are equial ... if they r good muslims then there is no difference between them... if u detest a persoon for his tribe he might be in allah eyes better a 1000 times n he will go to jannah n u to hell ( god forbid ) but what matters is a persons' next life not this one..
if u refuse a good man that has all the right qualeities or a woman who's perefct just coz her tribe then there's no justice in ur rejection.. plus r do u refuse? do u think urself a better person then them? that's the case i swear.. u loook down at ppl coz u think ur rooots r better.. n the prophit mohammad said -meaning- ( no person that has 1 small grain of proudness on others will enter heaven ) ...

y make such a big deal of history when it was an accomleshment u had nothing to do with !!!

i didnt mean any of the members by what i said.. but i went through this b4 .. n i really hated the outcomes..

What am I going to find in other tribes that I won't find in the ones my family approve of? IF IF IF every single one of the men in my tribes are bad and drink and treat women badly and all that, then I would obviously marry someone else, but why cause friction just to show people that I'm not racist?
I know I'm not a racist I don't have to prove it by marrying someone out of my tribe, I see that as being patronizing and a bit condescending.

i dont think the arguement is abt marrying sum1 just 2 prove ur not racist.. i mean if a guy asks 4 ur hand & u dont really know him but he's from a tribe tht ur parents approve of & u dont mind marrying him thn its fine... totally cool :)
however the thing is, wut if u know a person who's very decent & all & he decides tht he wants 2 marry u but he might not be from a tribe ur parents would like u 2 marry in2... should tht be an issue? i think tht's wut the arguement is abt :)

ok i 4got to add... offcourse ill never stand in the face of my parents in they dont agree upon me marrying some1 for any reason coz im a girl.. but i think a man can .. n i adore men who stand for what they want.. not just be their mama's sons..

^ it wont happen as long as im alive inshallah... and i will teach the next generation to stick to the traditions and that they believe in it they teach their sons n daughters.. and life goes on..
People with such an attitude who keep us behind...move man...
Strange How people's minds can stay like that...no matter the amount of learning they get...

okay.. i can see lots of members accepts to marry zu6oo6 wa biyasrah .. good for them.
.. by that they accepts for kids to be called son/daughter of zu6yiaah/ zu6i or son of biysrah/baiysar..
Very old thinking....:bored: .....:bored:
How old are u, man??? 90???:think:

True, but what if there are a lot of decent guys who come from families/tribes that your family finds acceptable? Why not just go for one of them?
And what if Mr. or Ms. Right is from that inferior tribe...??:think:

By the way, who and how should we know the "inferior" and the "superior" tribes????
I can find u many tribes who rule countries (and some considered super) and thier origin is not known or there is a doubt in their first father (by that i mean he thought to be a *******)...:lift:

^^ Ichigo, there are many Mr. Rights ;)

^^ Ichigo, there are many Mr. Rights ;)
What about love and understanding???
What about all thoes great love stories that we used to hear??
Does it have to be a business deal??? Will it work or not???
What if there is no Mr. Right (may be u have that option) in ur family??
Do i have to wait (like a girl i mean) for one to be born from my great family???
Believe me i know girls who never (and i mean never married) because of that...some of them as old as 40s now...
Go tigers, sons of great tribes, go and marry thoes women.....
Take 4 for a year...then take another 4....:hbd:

Hahaha. I'm not in favour of tribal "political" marriages by the way. It's a personal opinion that I believe there are many guys who are suitable or compatible for one girl and vice versa. Love is over rated, truly. Don't bother with the true love crap, it all comes after marriage with a person who is compatible and suitable for you.

At the end of the day, it is a difference of opinion :)

Hahaha. I'm not in favour of tribal "political" marriages by the way. It's a personal opinion that I believe there are many guys who are suitable or compatible for one girl and vice versa. Love is over rated, truly. Don't bother with the true love crap, it all comes after marriage with a person who is compatible and suitable for you.

At the end of the day, it is a difference of opinion :)
Well, love = suitable....
No need for true love because it is never there...
i need a man with a million dollar cash slip...suitable
(i like that way of thinking....:D )

Very old thinking....:bored: .....:bored:
How old are u, man??? 90???:think:

It's a matter of standards and principles, you have your own principles and others have their own as well to follow and deal with critical issues like marraige.

He is a young open minded man ;)

It's a matter of standards and principles, you have your own principles and others have their own as well to follow and deal with critical issues like marraige.

He is a young open minded man ;)
well, they are old standards and principles....what defines "open minded"?

why do we inherit these old standards and principles?
i mean if a perfect person asks for the girl's hand why do we look at his tribe's name? sorry but that's just too ignorant

why do we inherit these old standards and principles?
i mean if a perfect person asks for the girl's hand why do we look at his tribe's name? sorry but that's just too ignorant
Right at the heart of the point...
that is the whole issue...

Ok let's put it this way:
If too perfect guys go to a woman's family to propose to her; one is from an 'inside' tribe, and one isn't. They're both the same age, both really decent, both have good jobs and are both good-looking.
I would choose the one from the inside tribe to get ENGAGED to, not because I think the outside tribes are inferior, but because it is undeniably SO SO SO much easier living with someone from the same background, heritage and everything as you.

And we're all assuming that just because the other guy is from another tribe then he's perfect. Let's face it, the idea of going against your parents is still really really enticing :p

Tribes and backgrounds, btw, are not just a last name. It's a whole way of being brought up. Not that other tribes will have brought up their children in a worse or better way, but just in a different way. That's what my mom always tells me when they talk about someone getting engaged. If they marry outside certain tribes, she would comment on how difficult it would be for them because they've both been raised so differently, they're bound to clash more often than if they were raised the same and from the same tribe.

That's what I meant about trying to find the most comfortable match. It has nothing to do with race or anything.

could not have been said better fatamooo!

Ok now we have Queen and Enigma it's ok with them to marry zu6y.

Good, everyone to his choice and not everything old is bad, old is gold ;)

Ok now we have Queen and Enigma it's ok with them to marry zu6y.
Define "zu6y"????
Just to know what we are talking about...:6:

yes its happen always ..its will never change...they set alot of condition for the guy and girl .....

And what if Mr. or Ms. Right is from that inferior tribe...??:think:
As Lym said, there are many Mr. Rights.

Also, fatamoo mentioned above,

What am I going to find in other tribes that I won't find in the ones my family approve of?

and I agree with this. It's not like we're running out of good men in the tribes that are acceptable. There are options, so it's not an issue.

Ok now we have Queen and Enigma it's ok with them to marry zu6y.

Good, everyone to his choice and not everything old is bad, old is gold ;)
count me in... so three who wouldn't mind marrying what you consider zu6ies :)...

cuz there's every possibility zu6ies could be better than non-zu6ies :p;)

.. i know some tribes that r fishing lol.. but i dont like to name them!!


Ok what if a person from such a "fishing" tribe is well educated and higly respected comes to marry your sister? Will you refuse him because of his tribe?

TT, would your family accept you marrying him? and would you go aginst your family for that?

Like I said, its easy to say yes I will marry anyone I set my mind too .. but then, when you face reality complications are there .. and it wouldnt be an easy answer as yes

Why do you think everyone who's proud about his tribe is Jaahili or preislamic?

I never said who is proud of his tribe is jahali. You will not find a person more proud than I when it comes to tribes or origins. But it is certainly Jahali to reject men/women from marrying in their family only because of their tribes regardless of how the person is individually.

I said I personally wouldn't mind it... whether my parents allow it or not is a different story which'll come all in its time. Yet is not what it's all about here... so I'd hope we keep my personal issues out of this.

I would like to quote something I read few weeks back: A person who reads a useful book or works in a factory is far better in my eyes than a whole tribe dancing around with guns and swords.

Ok now we have Queen and Enigma it's ok with them to marry zu6y.

Good, everyone to his choice and not everything old is bad, old is gold ;)
excuse me??:lift: u mean anyone who's not from my tribe is zu6y?!:eh:
ya as Ichigo said define zu6y please!

Ok what if a person from such a "fishing" tribe is well educated and higly respected comes to marry your sister? Will you refuse him because of his tribe?

I would be more than happy marrying off my daughter or my sister to a fishing tribes... or to our Noble zu6ies as they call them as far as they are Good muslim.. with strong Imaan, kindness.

Rather than giving away my daughter or my sister to Someone who is Alcoholic, drug user not praying and a GAY Even if He is from my own Tribe or other high tribe like Mine with all millions But I will reject these people...:color:

Simply... the Men who are against these tribal issues.. got problems with their Origins or roots themselves maybe.. or they've been rejected my gurls family's becuz their tribe or something... thats why these "unknowns" are expressing their feelings here lol cuz in reality no one would give a damn shit abt wut they say.

I thank Sleyum for his post. I hope all think like you.

5alfanooh, instead of defending the tribal systems can you please answer some of the questions. I don't think anyone is against having wonderful dancing tribes. They attract a lot fo tourists you see. But the issue here is rejecting men/women based on nonsense reasons.

Can you please enlighten us with the achievements of your great tribe. I really wonder about the secrets behind such pride. Did they discover a cure to any disease or maybe they landed one of their men on Mars?!

^^ I dont have to tell u my tribe or wut did it achieve.. even if they didnt... I am a Pure arab and all Pure Arabz are SO PROUD of their tribe no matter wut.. non-Pure Arabz unfortunatily cant understand this pride :)

^^and why do you think that is?... cuz perhaps arrogance plays a great role...

^^ it is the truth mame.. whether u like it or not ;) non-pure arabz wont value their tribal pride

5alfanooh I know that my Prophet said that there is no difference between an Arab and an Non-Arab except based on their "Taqwa".

If your pride is based on imaginations than I am sad to say you need to wake up and look around. What does "pure" arab mean? Are you referring to those pure arabs who live in the deseret today feeling good about themself because they know how to write poems about the beauty of women or those pure arabs who once spread the light of Islam in the whole world?

Arabs have been humilted and raped for the last 60 years by a bunch of zionists only because they never managed to wake up and realise the truth.

I have no problem whatsoever with all your claims only if you logically explain why you feel so proud of yourself? Why you feel your tribe is better than the tribe of those fishermen.

In my eyes, as a logical Muslim, I find a young man who goes into the sea to fish a million times better than a whole tribe who does nothing but dance with weapons. Maybe if they knew how to use the weapons I would have thought otherwise.

^^ it is the truth mame.. whether u like it or not ;) non-pure arabz wont value their tribal pride

And why do the "pure" arabs like yourself value the tribal pride? Based on what?

To be honest, there is nothing wrong with doing so, but acting like pre-Islamic arabs (Jahaliya) is not acceptable in Islamic communities.

Make life easier, simpler, and everyone especially your parents happy, and marry someone they approve of. Because as fatamooo said, you use the process of elimination to help you choose your man or woman. I'm sure that there are many great people in every tribe, and all you have to do is look. And it's only down one street because your parents won't let you check out the others. (If that last sentence made any sense..)

I am a definite pure arab... and that thought of me being better than the rest never crossed my mind...
many in this region need to be disciplined out of their tribal pride... your tribe's name won't help you in the future... nor will it give you any value unless you prove yourself...

therefore I look up at those who are capable and disciplined and have respect for other tribes...rather than those who come from a good tribe and have none of the qualities mentioned above...

I agree with those women who would marry someone who makes their parents happy. This is a smart thing to do as some mentioned above. But I think its about time that uneducated parents understand that rejected proposals based on nonsense is not acceptable.

^^ why are u bothered ?? wuts ur bloody business if the parents whether they were educated or un-educated reject a guy cuz of his tribe??? leave ppl alone man! if u wanna let ur daughter marry whomever go ahead.. we dont want that! Its like u've been rejected cuz of ur tribe n came here to express all that fire inside u lol.. there is no water will stop that fire from increasing,, so enjoy it

I agree with those women who would marry someone who makes their parents happy. This is a smart thing to do as some mentioned above. But I think its about time that uneducated parents understand that rejected proposals based on nonsense is not acceptable.

But what if these women want to marry from their tribe, and it was their own decision? It doesn't have to mean that the parents are the ones making them. It could be that the woman is the one insisting on marrying from her tribe, and her parents can't do anything about it but be proud of her decision! :)

some people have really racist way of thinking

Fdaitny, young gurls, ur age, can't be wiser than u ;)

^^ why are u bothered ?? wuts ur bloody business if the parents whether they were educated or un-educated reject a guy cuz of his tribe??? leave ppl alone man! if u wanna let ur daughter marry whomever go ahead.. we dont want that! Its like u've been rejected cuz of ur tribe n came here to express all that fire inside u lol.. there is no water will stop that fire from increasing,, so enjoy it

Why are you getting emotional brother? Just calm down and relax. We are just discussing an issue.

As for my problem, it is with all those ignorant people. I simply cant stand and watch such senseless trash being practiced and used by so called Muslims.

If you were a Hindu I would have left you alone but not as long as your 5alfanooh ;)

And sorry but I am just 22 and I am not intrested in marrying now. I am busy writing poems and dancing with my khanjar in the desert right now ;)

Fdaitny the issue is about those who reject marrying others because of their tribe. If a man and a woman from the same tribe wish to marry than it should not be any different if two Muslims wish to marry from seperate tribes.

But what if these women want to marry from their tribe, and it was their own decision? It doesn't have to mean that the parents are the ones making them. It could be that the woman is the one insisting on marrying from her tribe, and her parents can't do anything about it but be proud of her decision! :)
now that moves way away from the purpose...
ARE we talking about those girls?... no... if the girls want to marry from their tribes then halalooya... that's not what we're talking about... we're talking about those who don't want... take it from there...

And sorry but I am just 22 and I am not intrested in marrying now. I am busy writing poems and dancing with my khanjar in the desert right now ;)

can i ask u something... are u Omani? True Omani? becuz if u were, u would know that real omanis dont just write poams and dance with their kanjar.. U dont know wut we did in history and what we are doing now! thats what i assure u... u just dont know :)

Fdaitny, young gurls, ur age, can't be wiser than u ;)

Thank you! :)

.. unfortunately those with good religion doesnt exist anymore.. so the nasab n 7asab rules!!:hyper:

So what you're saying is there are no longer girls "with good religion"? I hope that's a (lame) joke, Toomuchat. Don't go insulting people you don't know. If I recall correctly, you recently got married yourself. And I'm sure you have unmarried female relatives: sisters, aunts, cousins, whatever. Maybe in your family belonging to a certain tribe is more important than being religious. Just to let you know that's not the case with all families. So kindly refrain from making such derogatory statements in future.

can i ask u something... are u Omani? True Omani? becuz if u were, u would know that real omanis dont just write poams and dance with their kanjar.. U dont know wut we did in history and what we are doing now! thats what i assure u... u just dont know :)

I certainly know who real Omanis are . For one thing, I know Omanis are far more educated than talking about their tribes as if they were god given miracles.

*It was too personal, so it was edited* - Lym

Sting and 3t, I was just saying, because some people might blame it on the parents, and I was just giving my opinionated answer to Sting's post.

Yes Fdaitny but what if a girl from your tribe falls in love with a respectful man from another tribe down the wadi. Will it be fair for her parents to reject her and let her marry a 76 year old dude only because the man's tribe does not know how to dance with swords?

some people have really racist way of thinking
I agree, a person should keep his/her options opened...if the guy comes from a different tribe, it doesn't mean he's not good for the girl...am not saying ignore it completely, but dont make it the main reason to reject the guy.

STING,, History books were writing about My Tribe,, so cut the crap if u dont mind.. *Insults are not appreciated* - Lym

ok some ppl are going too far here! shame on you!!
would u just listen to urself?!

Guys, please refrain from attacking one another and discuss this issue like mature adults :lift: Thank you. You know, people are different, and you guys can easily agree to disagree instead of offending one another.

5alfanooh... you can go to the best university in the world and show them that historical book of yours.... see whether you get an acceptance?...since after all you come from so and so...;)

To the arabs... if we arabs have done so much and are considered the best... your attitude does not show that... lack of respect will not make any of us better... nor does it show us to be dignified people.
All it shows is arrogance and pride, ...I am sure your forefathers wouldn't have been pleased with you today. Because with all they've done in the past, you've spoiled their name by your despicable manners today. You hear me?!!
and trust me when I say... arab or not... I doubt anyone around here gives a whim who comes from where...
Only your achievements will prove who you are...

so quit the proud rubbish and live in reality.
if you're all that...PROVE it!!...
but learn not to put others down for it... cuz THAT dear friends... proves the absolute opposite...

Im not participating anymore in this thread due the edition lym did... bye

I would like to share this story of al-sayyida zainab bint ja7sh, who later on became the prophets wife.. anyways it will satisfy both parties. in fact it will satisfy the Oppositions more. I believe this story is about wut we're talkin about..

http://www.passia.org/meetings/rsunit/Articles/25-03-2005-Tantawi-3.htm

and if anyone can translate it for those who cant read arabic would be nice of them..

thanx

Thanks for sharing this well-known story. I've heard it before but not in such detail and I like the way it's been told here. It actually supports what I and a few others have been saying through 2 main points:

1. It clearly explains than Zaid by origin belongs to an Arab, Qa76ani lineage (like some Sabla members) and was taken as a slave by "2ahl al-'6ulm" (wrongdoers) before being bought at a market by a relative of the Prophet (PBUH). The point I'm trying to make that these people you call slaves, zu6oo6 or whatever weren't born slaves. God only created free human beings who were enslaved by people. So why do we still label them as slaves when we know otherwise?

2. The Prophet (PBUH) himself chose Zaid to become Sayyida Zainab's husband. Tell me...do you know of a person who lived or is living who's wiser than the Prophet (PBUH)? His selection proves that such factors should not be an issue when choosing a partner for life. Otherwise why would we have suggested that Sayyida Zainab, bint al-7asab wil nasab, marry his slaveboy?

So in response to IceTea, Toomuchat and Co. who so kindly refer to such people as zu6oo6, yes I would marry such a person. These differences only exist if you believe they exist, kinda like only the people who believe in Israel acknowledge its existance. The rest of us who don't just don't acknowledge that there's a country out there called Israel. To us that's just Palestine. Same example here. To me these people aren't zu6oo6. They're just Arab muslims like everyone else.

(Let's not turn this into a political discussion. I only mentioned Palestine/Israel to explain a point).

Simply... the Men who are against these tribal issues.. got problems with their Origins or roots themselves maybe.. or they've been rejected my gurls family's becuz their tribe or something... thats why these "unknowns" are expressing their feelings here lol cuz in reality no one would give a damn shit abt wut they say.

5alfanooh, just as you wouldn't like your tribal roots/origins/whatever to be attacked you shouldn't do the same to people. You know how much of a sensitive issue this is. I'm sure you have better manners.

Personal attacks have been deleted. Please stop the sarcasm and provoking comments. Thanks.

Yes Fdaitny but what if a girl from your tribe falls in love with a respectful man from another tribe down the wadi. Will it be fair for her parents to reject her and let her marry a 76 year old dude only because the man's tribe does not know how to dance with swords?

Lol! My family doesn't care about people dancing with swords. They care about other certain stuff (that aren't really hard to find, and fall in love with), and if we do fall in love with someone that falls under that, then it would be for our benefit also, as they want our husbands to understand why we are like that, and not have many conflicts between the two. It's more about understanding and communicating, and not having a clash of two different lifestyles, as fatamooo mentioned earlier.

I disagree with the traditional policy....

buy the merchendise according to its name then... and let others buy it for quality.. then see which is better...

What a perfect way to phrase it TTT. :os


, would cause my kids to have an inferiority complex, and they think that I shouldn't do that to my kids. I shouldn't want them to feel inferior or be bullied.
.

There are a million possible things your kids can be teased for Libs, instead of trying to eliminate those possiblities why not focus on teaching them how to stand up for themselves, deal with those situations, be proud and help them to teach others how to treat ppl fairly?

By the way, who and how should we know the "inferior" and the "superior" tribes????
I can find u many tribes who rule countries (and some considered super) and thier origin is not known or there is a doubt in their first father (by that i mean he thought to be a *******)...:lift:

Let me go back to my post about social structure. Sting mentioned India here, how they have the whole caste system and two ppl from different casts can marry.. why do you think Indian society is so weak?

One of the reasons Prophet Mohammed took so many wives from so many different places was to create a unity between many different tribes and peoples...

Tribes and backgrounds, btw, are not just a last name. It's a whole way of being brought up. Not that other tribes will have brought up their children in a worse or better way, but just in a different way. That's what my mom always tells me when they talk about someone getting engaged. If they marry outside certain tribes, she would comment on how difficult it would be for them because they've both been raised so differently, they're bound to clash more often than if they were raised the same and from the same tribe.

That's what I meant about trying to find the most comfortable match. It has nothing to do with race or anything.

By your theory here, the best possible match for all women are their brothers. He was raised in nearly the EXACT same situation, therefore is the most comfortable.

Warning: anyone wants to give his point of view is wellcomed but to start using unacceptable terms, such us stupid, retard, etc, personally i dont have anything to loose to reply back either the terms ware towards me or another member!!

It's a matter of standards and principles, you have your own principles and others have their own as well to follow and deal with critical issues like marraige.

He is a young open minded man ;)


.. thnx bro for that.. that's star on my shoulder!! ;)


Ok what if a person from such a "fishing" tribe is well educated and higly respected comes to marry your sister? Will you refuse him because of his tribe?

.. he should find another girl from his tribe and keeps his dignity un-touched!:)



And I'm sure you have unmarried female relatives: sisters, aunts, cousins, whatever. Maybe in your family belonging to a certain tribe is more important than being religious. Just to let you know that's not the case with all families. So kindly refrain from making such derogatory statements in future.

.. sorry sister diva.. i didnt understand what's in red.. but my family never interrept with any body marriage unless there was a black spot on it.. when i asked my mother to find me a girl.. she said whom do u want.. when i said so n so girl.. she said: she is a good girl, prays her fives n fasts her month!!

.. my parents choice was the best to follow in everything.. coz i was always taught, the agreement of Alah on me is conneted to the agreement of my parents on me!!

.. i dont make derogatory or discredit or dishonor statements coz myself i dont accepts it to myself!!

.. when i said fishing tribes that was what the history say abt them not me!!

__________________________________________________ _____

Finally.. plz dont direct any questions to me coz im not going to reply as i said before this discussion doesnt work on a forum.. as Max Payne said before!!

TT, would your family accept you marrying him? and would you go aginst your family for that?

Like I said, its easy to say yes I will marry anyone I set my mind too .. but then, when you face reality complications are there .. and it wouldnt be an easy answer as yes

I'm lucky. I can afford to think the way I do because apparently, unlike most Sabla members I have parents who are open minded and regardless of the guy's tribe they care that he is a good man and will make me happy. And even if they didn't agree on his "tribe" they would never disown me or cut me off.

Simply... the Men who are against these tribal issues.. got problems with their Origins or roots themselves maybe.. or they've been rejected my gurls family's becuz their tribe or something... thats why these "unknowns" are expressing their feelings here lol cuz in reality no one would give a damn shit abt wut they say.

And you my dear khalfan can afford to think the way you do. Its convenient: you're a guy, you will never have to face the situation personally, should your daughters/sisters come a long and try to break it for you you'll just put your foot down and say no. Because who cares? You got what you wanted, doesnt matter if the rest of the world does.

whether u like it or not ;) non-pure arabz wont value their tribal pride


high 5 there :super:

The Prophet (PBUH) himself chose Zaid to become Sayyida Zainab's husband. Tell me...do you know of a person who lived or is living who's wiser than the Prophet (PBUH)? His selection proves that such factors should not be an issue when choosing a partner for life. Otherwise why would we have suggested that Sayyida Zainab, bint al-7asab wil nasab, marry his slaveboy?

Yes, but it also gives an example that soemtimes you should go with what the society says. Sayida Zainab went to teh prophet and asked for divorce because she was mocked by everyone that she married a person in a lower status than her. SHe did not feel happy. SHe then asked the prophet to marry so her status would be gained back.

What this story says is, its not haram to marry someone from a different status .. but you have to note that there are lots of social and psychological effects with it ..

What this story says is, its not haram to marry someone from a different status .. but you have to note that there are lots of social and psychological effects with it ..

... which we need to learn to deal with instead of feeding into the problem, giving in and allowing it to continue on for other people.

if the answer to just to deal with it, we would have solved it in the 1400 years ago ..

And you my dear khalfan can afford to think the way you do. Its convenient: you're a guy, you will never have to face the situation personally, should your daughters/sisters come a long and try to break it for you you'll just put your foot down and say no. Because who cares? You got what you wanted, doesnt matter if the rest of the world does.Couldn't have said that better.

I strongly agree with enigma's statements on this matter.

if the answer to just to deal with it, we would have solved it in the 1400 years ago ..
actually... this problem has never been solved because no one dared to deal with it... everyone just listened to this policy regardless of it being right or wrong...
how's it ever going to change if all we do is follow it?

if the answer to just to deal with it, we would have solved it in the 1400 years ago ..

Because most ppl aren't willing to stand up for what they believe in. Because they are too weak to follow their own ideas and would rather stay safe and conform to society's.

It is a sad thing. And its right here in Sabla too. Among what we had coined as a sample of the more modern, open minded thinkers.

.. sorry sister diva.. i didnt understand what's in red.. but my family never interrept with any body marriage unless there was a black spot on it.. when i asked my mother to find me a girl.. she said whom do u want.. when i said so n so girl.. she said: she is a good girl, prays her fives n fasts her month!!

.. i dont make derogatory or discredit or dishonor statements coz myself i dont accepts it to myself!!

.. when i said fishing tribes that was what the history say abt them not me!!

__________________________________________________ _____

Finally.. plz dont direct any questions to me coz im not going to reply as i said before this discussion doesnt work on a forum.. as Max Payne said before!!

I wasn't talking about your comments on fishing tribes. My comment was directed at what you said about there not being any women with "good religion" nowadays. You wouldn't like it if people said your sisters and aunts aren't women of good religion so all I'm saying is it's not nice to say that about others. Maybe that's not what you meant but that's how it could be understood.

Unfortunately in our time and age, our society still places importance on your surname and origin. In Oman, tribal standards still exists, the cut between Arabs and Non-Arabs are still clear. Non-Arabs or citizens who've ancestors who were slaves are still looked down upon [which is completely wrong but it's happening]. This is why our parents want us to marry people from tribes that are respected in society, so our children don't have to suffer.

Even though our parents don't agree with this convention, they're not brave enough to stand up to it, and let their kids marry anyone just to prove a point. Frankly, I'm not brave enough to marry someone from a tribe not respected and have my children suffer at my expense, even though I agree that it's totally wrong and unjustified. I guess I'm a coward and I'd rather play it safe, marry someone who is respected in society and just live my life in peace.

I'd 2nd cousins who have a tribe name that was associated with slaves and I was surprised to learn that they were turned down three times each when they proposed to several girls because of their last name. I don't want my kids to be in that position no matter how selfish this may sound.

I guess I'm a living example of Enigma's conclusion.

It's changing gradually and it's evident in my family. In the future, I'm sure only a few families will ever recall this convention. With the rate we're going, families will be more occupied trying to get their female relatives happily married.

Because most ppl aren't willing to stand up for what they believe in. Because they are too weak to follow their own ideas and would rather stay safe and conform to society's.

It is a sad thing. And its right here in Sabla too. Among what we had coined as a sample of the more modern, open minded thinkers.

If you think its out weakness, then there is no point of discussing this :)

Yes, but it also gives an example that soemtimes you should go with what the society says. Sayida Zainab went to teh prophet and asked for divorce because she was mocked by everyone that she married a person in a lower status than her. SHe did not feel happy. SHe then asked the prophet to marry so her status would be gained back.

What this story says is, its not haram to marry someone from a different status .. but you have to note that there are lots of social and psychological effects with it ..

True. But he placed religion before culture and tradition. And we should learn from him. If anyone's not happy in their marriage they should get divorced; that option is always there. But these social and psychological effects were created by people. Rather than just accept that that's how things are and we should just live with it, we should try to change if we believe it isn't right. You're familiar with the 7adith that says you should change what you see as wrong with your hand, or if you can't then by saying so, or if you can't then at least acknowledge it within yourself. What it didn't say is you should just accept it.

Those who responded to this thread can be categorized into 3 groups: those who think that it's unacceptable to marry such tribes, those who don't necessarily think it's unacceptable but they believe it just makes life easier so why not go along with it, and then there are those who think it's outright wrong. AP, from the sounds of it you realize that this kind of discrimination is wrong but accept it because that's how society functions. You're different from those who wholeheartedly support because they truly believe that there are tribes out there that are better than others just because of the name they carry.

True. But he placed religion before culture and tradition. And we should learn from him.

but he also gave her the divorce and married her, which means he recognize how she felt!

There are two sides of the coin here, and each of you guys are seeing one. I am sure toomuchat and 5alfoonoh dont think they are better, they might even have close friends with different tribes and who they resepct very much.. but when marraige comes its a different issue .. and why should a person put his parents and family in a place where they would feel hurt when he can easily marry someone who they would approve of? call it out of weakness, but I would call it out of respect to the people who raised me ..

and why should a person put his parents and family in a place where they would feel hurt when he can easily marry someone who they would approve of? call it out of weakness, but I would call it out of respect to the people who raised me ..

But AP you can take any matter that your elders hold and say that you conform to it out of respect. It could even be the worst thing, crazy outrageous ideas that they still hold. Some ppl thought that killing in the name of a tribe is justified.. should we respect all ideas just because we love the ppl that hold them?

It matters more that we change wrong ideas than respect the people that hold them. Sometimes people need to be hurt for the sake of a better future.

Well yes, if the idea doesnt consider disobying my god then they come next!
Like Fatamoo and Liby, I dont think its worth it to go aginst your parents for a man ..

but he also gave her the divorce and married her, which means he recognize how she felt!

A woman can get divorced for all sorts of reasons. If I married the perfect man today and a year later I decided I didn't want to be with him anymore I assure you the court will grant me a divorce (believe me I've done my research :) ). If you're not happy you're not happy, regardless of your reasons. No one can force you to stay in an unhappy marriage. So the fact that the Prophet (PBUH) "allowed" her to get divorced doesn't mean anything! And it surely doesn't mean he supported her decision or thought it was a good idea. Divorce is "ab'3a9 al-7alal" in Islam. If the Prophet (PBUH) knew that this was gonna be a huge factor with Sayyida Zainab he wouldn't have advised her to marry him. That was not an experiment. It was marriage made with the intention to last a lifetime.

I dont think its worth it to go aginst your parents for a man ..

I agree with you 100%. No one's that worth it. But can we try something for a change? Instead of bringing parents into this, can everyone just state what their personal opinion on this matter is. So forget about whether or not your parents will agree for the time being. Think, if it was only up to you, will you accept it? So even before your parents tell you what they think, what will you say? (And let's assume that whatever the parents say will be respected).

Good idea Diva.


Well yes, if the idea doesnt consider disobying my god then they come next!
Like Fatamoo and Liby, I dont think its worth it to go aginst your parents for a man ..

I also agree with that. I love my parents too much to do that. But like I said earlier, I can afford to think the way I do because of the parents I have. Thing is, even if they were the close minded type and discriminated based on tribe names.. I still would think the way I do. And I don't believe that my love or respect for them changes just because I chose to marry someone they dissaproved of based on something as of little matter as his last name.

I agree with you 100%. No one's that worth it. But can we try something for a change? Instead of bringing parents into this, can everyone just state what their personal opinion on this matter is. So forget about whether or not your parents will agree for the time being. Think, if it was only up to you, will you accept it? So even before your parents tell you what they think, what will you say? (And let's assume that whatever the parents say will be respected).

Whats the use of me saying that I approve of this marraige when I know that I would never do it. I dont want to shout what I wouldnt do .. thats what I am trying to say.

And I don't believe that my love or respect for them changes just because I chose to marry someone they dissaproved of based on something as of little matter as his last name

Maybe coz your parents wouldnt mind you dont understand what is it to marry a person they wouldnt approve of .. it means you have stabbed them in the heart .. I know this is what it would feel for them .. and sorry I wouldnt even imagine doing this to my parents.

it's good that i am who i am ! elhumdella im not soo closed minded.. n so r my parents.. n god help all of u guys :)

bottom line .. only neseeeeb is gonna happen .. if it's ment to be even it was some1 from the other world it will be :)

There are a million possible things your kids can be teased for Libs, instead of trying to eliminate those possiblities why not focus on teaching them how to stand up for themselves, deal with those situations, be proud and help them to teach others how to treat ppl fairly?

Exactly, they can be bullied for any number of reasons.. why give others one more reason to treat them badly?

I hope that this whole tribal issue would just disappear and not be an issue, but right now, as long as it is something that many people still care about, I'd prefer to just play it safe. I'd rather not condemn my kids to a lifetime of being looked down at.

If let's say, by the time I have my children, this whole issue is nonexistent, and I know my kids can marry whoever they wish and not have a hard time in society, then I would gladly encourage them to marry from any tribe.

whether u like it or not non-pure arabz wont value their tribal pride I disagree. I know many non arabs who are very proud with their tribe.

Stop attacking each other before I take action & get the moderation team decide to lock it

Start discussing like adults

You can be proud of whatever you are without attacking others

NONE of you is better than the other

you dont understand what is it to marry a person they wouldnt approve of .. it means you have stabbed them in the heart .. I know this is what it would feel for them .. and sorry I wouldnt even imagine doing this to my parents.

I must say that though i always disagree with you in this attitude, i respect the loyalty you have for your country, your parents, your husband
If one didn't know you, might say yours is a blind submission
But i read enough of you to say that is not, really you do and think this way cause you feel it

Just sometimes dnt you think that it should be also the other way round
I mean why parents cannot understand that a man and the love that is between you two, is as important as a tribal issue
Respect must be on both sides, compromise must be accepted by all
Is difficult i know, but if something makes troubles in peoples life, and that's a fact cause i know many stories, then it means is not good
Therefore it has to changed, not completely cause a culture is important but partly yes
But if nobody starts it will remain like this forever and is not good

Alright people, I have another Question which "superior" tribesmen can discuss here:

A 25 years old well respected and educated man from an "Inferior" tribe comes to marry a 24 yeas old girl from Dakhliya Region. For the same girl, a 55 year old horny man from Dakhliya is intrested. Who will the brothers and sisters of this girl should choose?

Alright people, I have another Question which &quo